In Praise of Putin

[JackRiddler]

.

Oh yeah, the New Knowledge scam in Alabama was highly instructive. It's the largest single troll action of the kind attributed to Russians that has been traced to a confirmed and confessed origin. It was a false-flag operation by a propaganda outfit specialized in stoking #Russiagate panic.

.

[DrEvil]

Dr. Evil wrote...

How effective the trolls are I have no fucking clue really, I just don't think they would be doing it if it was not in some way useful to them.

Lets see now, is it the 'Russians' that are making western technocrats look like complicitous fools, or do they do it to themselves.


https://sputniknews.com/europe/20200406 ... andmother/

Anders Ygeman's claims of an attack on his Facebook page by “Russian trolls” over the future of 5G networks were previously dismissed by the Russian Embassy as paranoia. In reality, the over 2,000 comments turned out to have a local explanation.

Swedish Minister of Energy and Digital Development Minister Anders Ygeman has accused Russia of “destabilising the Swedish 5G debate” and targeting him in a Facebook attack. However, Swedish national broadcaster SVT found no foreign clues, as the over 2,000-comment long thread turned out to have been originated by an “ordinary Swedish grandmother”.

Earlier this year, Anders Ygeman said that every time he mentions 5G on social media he is attacked by hundreds of 5G-negative comments. He suggested that “Russian interests” were behind the attacks.

“There is a Russian competition political interest in disrupting and hindering other countries' development of 5G”, Ygeman ventured. “Obviously those comments can generate concern for ordinary Swedes. That must be the purpose of them”, Ygeman said.

While Dagens Nyheter, one of Sweden's leading dailies, ran an article called “Ygeman targeted in Russian attack”, Ygeman's allegations were dismissed by the Russian Embassy as paranoia.

“Our special congratulations go to Anders Ygeman. As we have learned, the popularity of his Facebook page has increased dramatically which we wholeheartedly congratulate him on!” the Russian Embassy wrote, adding that Russia would like to cooperate, but not with ministers “who suffer from paranoia in search of 'Russian trolls'”.

The recent research by SVT gave the Russian Embassy some merit. According to the research, the numerous replies were largely organised by a Swedish group against 5G founded by 64-year-old Katarina Hollbrink, who lives in Södermalm, Stockholm and describes herself as an “ordinary Swedish grandmother who is worried about radiation”. The minister's statement left her deeply surprised.....

That Putin guy, he has got the most awesomeness in his trolls.

So... someone mistook a Swedish facebook group for Russian trolls, ergo Russian trolls don't exist?

Edit: I also assume you don't see the irony of your counterpoint coming from a site owned by the Russian government?

[JackRiddler]

So... someone mistook a Swedish facebook group for Russian trolls, ergo Russian trolls don't exist?

You're not this dense, so why pretend?

There are many cases of people intentionally or mistakenly inventing "Russian" trolls for their own purposes. Ergo nothing. It's already a correct empirical observation. The largest definitively confirmed case of a "Russian" troll attacking in the United States is the New Democracy false-flag in Alabama, to which they confessed after they were caught.

[DrEvil]

So... someone mistook a Swedish facebook group for Russian trolls, ergo Russian trolls don't exist?

You're not this dense, so why pretend?

There are many cases of people intentionally or mistakenly inventing "Russian" trolls for their own purposes. Ergo nothing. It's already a correct empirical observation. The largest definitively confirmed case of a "Russian" troll attacking in the United States is the New Democracy false-flag in Alabama, to which they confessed after they were caught.

Of course there's going to be plenty of western propaganda outfits using Russian trolls as convenient scapegoats, because duh, they're the perfect scapegoat. Still doesn't mean Russia aren't running influence operations, just like a whole bunch of other countries. They're just another shitty empire doing shitty empire shit.

My main gripe here isn't really about the specifics on any particular case, it's the double standard applied to Russia versus the US and the UK. If Sounder had posted a BBC article making fun of the notion of UK internet trolls the default assumption here would immediately have been that they were full of shit and throwing up smoke screens and that GCHQ was definitely up to something.
No one would be demanding hard evidence to support that. It would be nice to have hard proof, sure, but it's the BBC - the UK's premier propaganda outlet - so the default assumption would be they're lying or trying to obfuscate something.

I could be wildly wrong about my views on Russia (probably am on much of it), but I prefer to treat them the same as any other quasi-fascist empire. If I'm wrong I'll be pleasantly surprised, if I'm right I get to say I told you so. Win-win.

[JackRiddler]

It's not about whether you're wrong on your general views about Russia.

Our disagreement here concerns the available evidence on Russian manipulation in US politics (first) and Western politics (second). And right off the bat, the remarkable thing is that the vast majority of #Russiagate claims were fabricated by the Western propaganda system, spooks, DNC/Clinton, anti-Trumpers of the power elite, and the cottage industry and fandom that grew in its wake (like Marcy Wheeler). They just made up imaginary threats or constructed real non-incidents into fake smoking guns, and almost all of it got debunked. The remainder is not yet attributed with certainty to Russia and has not shown to be very impressive. That is no longer an argument, it's an empirical assessment. So that's what you've got to deal with. The first question therefore becomes, Why did they -- the Western propaganda system et al. as named above -- invent this thing? Not, What does DrEvil think constitutes a logical motivation for Russians (i.e., the Russian state) to have done something that you suppose they should have or would have done? It has not yet been established they did. It's time to acknowledge and examine the observable mass of the phenomenon. The #Russiagate fabrications are the story, not whatever little is left as possibly still open among the #Russiagate claims.

.

[Harvey]

Article: Don’t Blame China For Your Government’s COVID-19 Failures identifies what is arguably the same process with regard to China, as applied to post Covid strategic positioning. I am required to preface this post with the usual disclaimer: what the fuck does my inclination to seek the truth have to do with my being a Putin worshipping Chinese stooge?

Davide Mastracci

In early January, COVID-19 was largely limited to China. Now, just three months later, it has spread far beyond China’s border, and has effectively been halted domestically within the country.

There are currently around 1.36 million reported COVID-19 cases globally, with more than 76,000 deaths. China accounts for just 6 per cent of all cases, and 4.4 per cent of deaths. Yesterday, China reported no new deaths for the first time since January.

Countries in the West, meanwhile, have gone into lockdown, hospitals have been overwhelmed and markets are crashing. There appears to be no clear end in sight for us here.

Despite that, a group of ideologues already have their eyes on the post-pandemic world, and are concerned China may emerge as the new global superpower. As part of an effort to prevent this, these figures think other countries should hold China “accountable” for the pandemic, and are working to create popular demand among the public for this to happen.

https://readpassage.com/dont-blame-chin ... -covid-19/