"Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby BrandonD » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:19 pm

I remember listening to an AI physics lecture many years ago (was it Penrose?), and he mentioned an interesting footnote: in each era of our history, we describe the function of the brain by comparing it with our most advanced machinery of the time period. In the early industrial era it was said to operate like a Jaquard loom, in the period of analog recording it was said to be a tape recorder, in the age of computers it is said to be essentially a computer or radio receiver.

I can't help imagining a group of jungle-dwellers seeing an airplane and calling it a metal bird.
"One measures a circle, beginning anywhere." -Charles Fort
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Hammer of Los » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:50 am

...

Oh Ye of LiL FAITH...

I read Professor PEN Rose some time ago, I thought he was wrong then and I still do now. He should stick to his tiles.


WHAT!?!

BE!

THE ANSWER!

TO THE RIDDLE!

OF THE

TOYNBEE TILEZ???!!!???


hehehe

DO YER RESEARCH, BOYZ N GURLZ!

do yer research.

;)
XXX

ps hear the heart beat of da hammer... rock da planet... HA HA HA HA HA!!!

...
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Wed May 07, 2014 1:18 pm

Hopefully, this hasn't already been posted.

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/898b104158d

One of the most profound advances in science in recent years is the way researchers from a variety of fields are beginning to think about consciousness. Until now, the c-word was been taboo for most scientists. Any suggestion that a researchers was interested in this area would be tantamount to professional suicide.

That has begun to change thanks to a new theory of consciousness developed in the last ten years or so by Giulio Tononi, a neuroscientist at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, and others. Tononi’s key idea is that consciousness is phenomenon in which information is integrated in the brain in a way that cannot be broken down.

So each instant of consciousness integrates the smells, sounds and sights of that moment of experience. And consciousness is simply the feeling of this integrated information experience.

What makes Tononi’s ideas different from other theories of consciousness is that it can be modelled mathematically using ideas from physics and information theory. That doesn’t mean this theory is correct. But it does mean that, for the first time, neuroscientists, biologists physicists and anybody else can all reason about consciousness using the universal language of science: mathematics.

This has led to an extraordinary blossoming of ideas about consciousness. A few months ago, for example, we looked at how physicists are beginning to formulate the problem consciousness in terms of quantum mechanics and information theory.

Today, Phil Maguire at the National University of Ireland and a few pals take this mathematical description even further. These guys make some reasonable assumptions about the way information can leak out of a consciousness system and show that this implies that consciousness is not computable. In other words, consciousness cannot be modelled on a computer.

Maguire and co begin with a couple of thought experiments that demonstrate the nature of integrated information in Tononi’s theory. They start by imagining the process of identifying chocolate by its smell. For a human, the conscious experience of smelling chocolate is unified with everything else that a person has smelled (or indeed seen, touched, heard and so on).

This is entirely different from the process of automatically identifying chocolate using an electronic nose, which measures many different smells and senses chocolate when it picks out the ones that match some predefined signature.

A key point here is that it would be straightforward to access the memory in an electronic nose and edit the information about its chocolate experience. You could delete this with the press of a button.

But ask a neuroscientist to do the same for your own experience of the smell of chocolate—to somehow delete this—and he or she would be faced with an impossible task since the experience is correlated with many different parts of the brain.

Indeed, the experience will be integrated with all kinds of other experiences. “According to Tononi, the information generated by such [an electronic nose] differs from that generated by a human insofar as it is not integrated,” say Maguire and co.

This process of integration is then crucial and Maguire and co focus on the mathematical properties it must have. For instance, they point out that the process of integrating information, of combining it with many other aspects of experience, can be thought of as a kind of information compression.

This compression allows the original experience to be constructed but does not keep all of the information it originally contained.

To better understand this, they give as an analogy the sequence of numbers: 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 18, 20, 24…. This is an infinite series defined as: odd primes plus 1. This definition does not contain all the infinite numbers but it does allow it be reproduced. It is clearly a compression of the information in the original series.

The brain, say Maguire and co, must work like this when integrating information from a conscious experience. It must allow the reconstruction of the original experience but without storing all the parts.

That leads to a problem. This kind of compression inevitably discards information. And as more information is compressed, the loss becomes greater.

But if our memories were like that cannot be like that, they would be continually haemorrhaging meaningful content. “Memory functions must be vastly non-lossy, otherwise retrieving them repeatedly would cause them to gradually decay,” say Maguire and co.

The central part of their new work is to describe the mathematical properties of a system that can store integrated information in this way but without it leaking away. And this leads them to their central proof. “The implications of this proof are that we have to abandon either the idea that people enjoy genuinely [integrated] consciousness or that brain processes can be modelled computationally,” say Maguire and co.

Since Tononi’s main assumption is that consciousness is the experience of integrated information, it is the second idea that must be abandoned: brain processes cannot be modelled computationally.

They go on to discuss this in more detail. If a person’s behaviour cannot be analysed independently from the rest of their conscious experience, it implies that something is going on in their brain that is so complex it cannot feasibly be reversed, they say.

In other words, the difference between cognition and computation is that computation is reversible whereas cognition is not. And they say that is reflected in the inability of a neuroscientist to operate and remove a particular memory of the small of chocolate.

That’s an interesting approach but it is one that is likely to be controversial. The laws of physics are computable, as far as we know. So critics might ask how the process of consciousness can take place at all if it is non-computable. Critics might even say this is akin to saying that consciousness is in some way supernatural, like magic.

But Maguire and go counter this by saying that their theory doesn’t imply that consciousness is objectively non-computable only subjectively so. In other words, a God-like observer with perfect knowledge of the brain would not consider it non-computable. But for humans, with their imperfect knowledge of the universe, it is effectively non-computable.

There is something of a card trick about this argument. In mathematics, the idea of non-computability is not observer-dependent so it seems something of a stretch to introduce it as an explanation.

What’s more, critics might point to other weaknesses in the formulation of this problem. For example, the proof that conscious experience is non-computable depends critically on the assumption that our memories are non-lossy.

But everyday experience is surely the opposite—our brains lose most of the information that we experience consciously. And the process of repeatedly accessing memories can cause them to change and degrade. Isn’t the experience of forgetting a face of a known person well documented?

Then again, critics of Maguire and co’s formulation of the problem of consciousness must not lose sight of the bigger picture—that the debate about consciousness can occur on a mathematical footing at all. That’s indicative of a sea change in this most controversial of fields.

Of course, there are important steps ahead. Perhaps the most critical is that the process of mathematical modelling must lead to hypotheses that can be experimentally tested. That’s the process by which science distinguishes between one theory and another. Without a testable hypothesis, a mathematical model is not very useful.

For example, Maguire and co could use their model to make predictions about the limits in the way information can leak from a conscious system. These limits might be testable in experiments focusing on the nature of working memory or long-term memory in humans.

That’s the next challenge for this brave new field of consciousness.
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Ben D » Thu May 08, 2014 5:35 am

In God we live and move and have our being (Acts 17:18)

Now it is a scientific fact that we live in an interpenetrating cosmic field that is universally omnipresent...depending on the particular selective discipline, it is known by different names...quantum vacuum and/or zero point energy by the quantum physicists....dark energy by the astronomers...Higg's field by the particle physicists. Now this scientific omnipresent field is also known as Aether by the metaphysicians, and of course as spirit or God by the religious types. Still, the fact remains that there is only one omnipresence and the labels used to name it depend on the selective filters used to apprehend...just remember the parable of the blind men describing the elephant?

So far we can all agree there is an omnipresent essence...but does this essence have properties...like the principle of consciousness...the work of Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose appear to be indicating it is....and this is truly awesome...the underlying omnipresent background of the Universe is the source of all our being and consciousness...even governing cellular mitosis.

Seems that science, rather than causing the demise of religion, may ultimately be the light bringer...though of course it is inevitable that the closed minded materialists and the idolaters will be recalcitrant to the very end wrt to this synergetic process.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring the good and I create evil; I the Lord do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby smoking since 1879 » Thu May 08, 2014 5:44 am

Stanford engineer creates circuit board that mimics the human brain

Bioengineer Kwabena Boahen's Neurogrid can simulate one million neurons and billions of synaptic connections. Boahen is working with other Stanford scientists to develop prosthetic limbs that would be controlled by a Neurogrid-like chip.



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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu May 08, 2014 9:44 am

^^Worth clarifying that the surely capable Stanford engineer created a chip which mimics a model of human brain function and design, not "the human brain."
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby smoking since 1879 » Thu May 08, 2014 10:45 am

Wombaticus Rex » Thu May 08, 2014 2:44 pm wrote:^^Worth clarifying that the surely capable Stanford engineer created a chip which mimics a model of human brain function and design, not "the human brain."


Agreed.
It's also worth noting that 1 million neurons is about 10 milligrams of brain tissue, so they have some catching up to do. ;)

But it's analogue, and low power, and interconnected. It's a step in the right direction.

Peace
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Saurian Tail » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:25 pm

This is an interesting discussion about measuring brain wave patterns during meditation. The primary message in the video is that there is a point where something obviously "happens" … a download of "information" perhaps … that creates a change in the person doing the meditating. The real meat of the presentation is when they they show the brainwave charts. Correlating that data with the "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" metaphor provides a lot of food for thought.

Dr. Joe Dispenza and Dr. Jeffrey Fannin - "Brain, Mind, and the Placebo Effect"



http://youtu.be/HckrMvdPVH0
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:31 am

It's huge and impenetrable, but I recommend getting a copy of "Zen and the Brain" -- it is a serious document and future civilizations will need it (assuming they're carbon-based, of course!) -- perhaps your copy will be the one that makes it through the Kali Yuga!
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby minime » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:57 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:31 am wrote:It's huge and impenetrable, but I recommend getting a copy of "Zen and the Brain" -- it is a serious document and future civilizations will need it (assuming they're carbon-based, of course!) -- perhaps your copy will be the one that makes it through the Kali Yuga!


Quite a recommendation. As I am at the library, I ordered it, and it's on its way.
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:43 am

...

Are friends Electro-magnetic/Aetheric?

Yes!

Always I recall Fritjof Capra.

All roads lead to Esalen.

The mighty Wombat first introduced me to Changing Images of Man.

That's what turned me into Rac Shade, the Changing Man, from Meta Luna!

...
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby minime » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:59 pm

From Zen and the Brain:

The power of true center must be the most frequently mislaid artifact of human wisdom. It is as if the same message keeps washing ashore, and no one breaks the bottles, much less the code.

Marilyn Ferguson
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Saurian Tail » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:27 pm

minime » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:59 pm wrote:From Zen and the Brain:

The power of true center must be the most frequently mislaid artifact of human wisdom. It is as if the same message keeps washing ashore, and no one breaks the bottles, much less the code.

Marilyn Ferguson

Great quote ... thank you for finding and sharing it. At some point the searcher might come to the conclusion that there is nothing "out there" that is stable and secure ... everything changes. Then there is an opportunity for an inner turning in the search for truth. That inner turning is the essential movement represented by "knock and the door shall be opened to you" or "when the student is ready, the master will appear".

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and
unchanging Tao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and
unchanging name.

(Conceived of as) having no name, it is the Originator of heaven
and earth; (conceived of as) having a name, it is the Mother of all
things.

Always without desire we must be found,
If its deep mystery we would sound;
But if desire always within us be,
Its outer fringe is all that we shall see.

Under these two aspects, it is really the same; but as development
takes place, it receives the different names. Together we call them
the Mystery. Where the Mystery is the deepest is the gate of all that
is subtle and wonderful.

-- http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm


There it is in the first chapter of the Tao. Origination and Manifestation. Together we call them the Mystery.

Therein is the idea of "Your Brain Works Like a Radio". The brain and everything outside of us is the Manifestation. The signal and everything within us is the Origination.
"Taking it in its deepest sense, the shadow is the invisible saurian tail that man still drags behind him." -Carl Jung
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Saurian Tail » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:34 pm

More correlation with very old mystical metaphors ... this one is particularly rich "We are all lions, but lions on a banner":

We are as a Flute

We are as the flute, and the music in us is from thee;
we are as the mountain and the echo in us is from thee.

We are as pieces of chess engaged in victory and defeat:
our victory and defeat is from thee,
O thou whose qualities are comely!

Who are we, O Thou soul of our souls,
that we should remain in being beside thee?

We and our existences are really non-existence;
thou art the absolute Being which manifests the perishable.

We all are lions, but lions on a banner:
because of the wind they are rushing onward from moment to moment.

Their onward rush is visible, and the wind is unseen:
may that which is unseen not fail from us!

Our wind whereby we are moved and our being are of thy gift;
our whole existence is from thy bringing into being.

-RUMI
"Taking it in its deepest sense, the shadow is the invisible saurian tail that man still drags behind him." -Carl Jung
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Re: "Your Brain Works Like a Radio" and other mind matters

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:09 pm

Via: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/july ... 71614.html

This does not remotely square with my own prodigious experience but I'm not from Stanford, either.

Hallucinatory 'voices' shaped by local culture, Stanford anthropologist says

Stanford anthropologist Tanya Luhrmann found that voice-hearing experiences of people with serious psychotic disorders are shaped by local culture – in the United States, the voices are harsh and threatening; in Africa and India, they are more benign and playful. This may have clinical implications for how to treat people with schizophrenia, she suggests.

People suffering from schizophrenia may hear "voices" – auditory hallucinations – differently depending on their cultural context, according to new Stanford research.

In the United States, the voices are harsher, and in Africa and India, more benign, said Tanya Luhrmann, a Stanford professor of anthropology and first author of the article in the British Journal of Psychiatry.

The experience of hearing voices is complex and varies from person to person, according to Luhrmann. The new research suggests that the voice-hearing experiences are influenced by one's particular social and cultural environment – and this may have consequences for treatment.

In an interview, Luhrmann said that American clinicians "sometimes treat the voices heard by people with psychosis as if they are the uninteresting neurological byproducts of disease which should be ignored. Our work found that people with serious psychotic disorder in different cultures have different voice-hearing experiences. That suggests that the way people pay attention to their voices alters what they hear their voices say. That may have clinical implications."


Positive and negative voices

Luhrmann said the role of culture in understanding psychiatric illnesses in depth has been overlooked.

"The work by anthropologists who work on psychiatric illness teaches us that these illnesses shift in small but important ways in different social worlds. Psychiatric scientists tend not to look at cultural variation. Someone should, because it's important, and it can teach us something about psychiatric illness," said Luhrmann, an anthropologist trained in psychology. She is the Watkins University Professor at Stanford.

For the research, Luhrmann and her colleagues interviewed 60 adults diagnosed with schizophrenia – 20 each in San Mateo, California; Accra, Ghana; and Chennai, India. Overall, there were 31 women and 29 men with an average age of 34. They were asked how many voices they heard, how often, what they thought caused the auditory hallucinations, and what their voices were like.

"We then asked the participants whether they knew who was speaking, whether they had conversations with the voices, and what the voices said. We asked people what they found most distressing about the voices, whether they had any positive experiences of voices and whether the voice spoke about sex or God," she said.

The findings revealed that hearing voices was broadly similar across all three cultures, according to Luhrmann. Many of those interviewed reported both good and bad voices, and conversations with those voices, as well as whispering and hissing that they could not quite place physically. Some spoke of hearing from God while others said they felt like their voices were an "assault" upon them.

'Voices as bombardment'

The striking difference was that while many of the African and Indian subjects registered predominantly positive experiences with their voices, not one American did. Rather, the U.S. subjects were more likely to report experiences as violent and hateful – and evidence of a sick condition.

The Americans experienced voices as bombardment and as symptoms of a brain disease caused by genes or trauma.

One participant described the voices as "like torturing people, to take their eye out with a fork, or cut someone's head and drink their blood, really nasty stuff." Other Americans (five of them) even spoke of their voices as a call to battle or war – "'the warfare of everyone just yelling.'"

Moreover, the Americans mostly did not report that they knew who spoke to them and they seemed to have 
less personal relationships with their voices, according to Luhrmann.

Among the Indians in Chennai, more than half (11) heard voices of kin or family members commanding them to do tasks. "They talk as if elder people advising younger people," one subject said. That contrasts to the Americans, only two of whom heard family members. Also, the Indians heard fewer threatening voices than the Americans – several heard the voices as playful, as manifesting spirits or magic, and even as entertaining. Finally, not as many of them described the voices in terms of a medical or psychiatric problem, as all of the Americans did.

In Accra, Ghana, where the culture accepts that disembodied spirits can talk, few subjects described voices in brain disease terms. When people talked about their voices, 10 of them called the experience predominantly positive; 16 of them reported hearing God audibly. "'Mostly, the voices are good,'" one participant remarked.


Individual self vs. the collective

Why the difference? Luhrmann offered an explanation: Europeans and Americans tend to see themselves as individuals motivated by a sense of self identity, whereas outside the West, people imagine the mind and self interwoven with others and defined through relationships.

"Actual people do not always follow social norms," the scholars noted. "Nonetheless, the more independent emphasis of what we typically call the 'West' and the more interdependent emphasis of other societies has been demonstrated ethnographically and experimentally in many places."

As a result, hearing voices in a specific context may differ significantly for the person involved, they wrote. In America, the voices were an intrusion and a threat to one's private world – the voices could not be controlled.

However, in India and Africa, the subjects were not as troubled by the voices – they seemed on one level to make sense in a more relational world. Still, differences existed between the participants in India and Africa; the former's voice-hearing experience emphasized playfulness and sex, whereas the latter more often involved the voice of God.

The religiosity or urban nature of the culture did not seem to be a factor in how the voices were viewed, Luhrmann said.

"Instead, the difference seems to be that the Chennai (India) and Accra (Ghana) participants were more comfortable interpreting their voices as relationships and not as the sign of a violated mind," the researchers wrote.


Relationship with voices

The research, Luhrmann observed, suggests that the "harsh, violent voices so common in the West may not be an inevitable feature of schizophrenia." Cultural shaping of schizophrenia behavior may be even more profound than previously thought.

The findings may be clinically significant, according to the researchers. Prior research showed that specific therapies may alter what patients hear their voices say. One new approach claims it is possible to improve individuals' relationships with their voices by teaching them to name their voices and to build relationships with them, and that doing so diminishes their caustic qualities. "More benign voices may contribute to more benign course and outcome," they wrote.

Co-authors for the article included R. Padmavati and Hema Tharoor from the Schizophrenia Research Foundation in Chennai, India, and Akwasi Osei from the Accra General Psychiatric Hospital in Accra, Ghana.

What's next in line for Luhrmann and her colleagues?

"Our hunch is that the way people think about thinking changes the way they pay attention to the unusual experiences associated with sleep and awareness, and that as a result, people will have different spiritual experiences, as well as different patterns of psychiatric experience," she said, noting a plan to conduct a larger, systematic comparison of spiritual, psychiatric and thought process experiences in five countries.


...WILL DRs JUNG AND SHELDRAKE REPORT TO THE ANTHROPOLOGY DEPARTMENT??
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