2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby RocketMan » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:01 pm

I wonder if there'll come a time when this story will be discreetly wound down...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... after-lost

The search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was focused on the Bay of Bengal late on Friday after satellite data showed that the aircraft could have flown on for hours and US officials confirmed they had directed surveillance aircraft to patrol the area for debris.

There were reports that Malaysian military radar indicated the plane made at least two distinct changes of course after apparently turning back from its route towards Beijing. US officials indicated that they believed the plane had crashed in the Indian Ocean and had ordered an aerial search of the area beginning on Saturday. Malaysian officials said they were investigating the possibility that the plane's communications systems had been deliberately shut down.

A week after the the aircraft vanished, there was still no trace of it, despite a huge international search involving 13 countries. The strongest indication that the plane had flown on for hours came from Inmarsat, a British-based provider of satellite equipment, which said it had continued to receive "pings" from the aircraft well after its last contact with air traffic control.

There were competing theories about why and how the plane had changed course. The three main possibilities under consideration, according to a variety of US officials quoted by a range of media outlets, were air piracy, hijacking or pilot suicide. Whatever the reason, the theory that the plane had suffered a catastrophic mechanical failure on its route over the Gulf of Thailand appeared to be fading from prominence.

The US Navy confirmed to the Guardian that it had deployed a P-8A Poseidon surveillance aircraft to scour the Bay of Bengal for debris on Saturday. A spokesman said it would search a "much larger area .... the southern portion of the Bay of Bengal and the northern portion of the Indian Ocean".

The USS Kidd, a guided missile destroyer that has been searching the Strait of Malacca, was moving further west, preparing to search the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal. A P-3C Orion completed an aerial search of the northwest section of the Strait of Malacca "where it flew approximately 1000 miles west with nothing significant to report", according to the US embassy in Kuala Lumpur.

In a further indication that the plane was under piloted control, the New York Times reported that Malaysian military radar data showed the jet climbed to 45,000ft, above the approved altitude limit for a Boeing 777-200, soon after its last known position, after making a turn to the west. It said there were indications that MH370 descended to 23,000ft on the approach to Penang, one of Malaysia's largest and most densely populated islands. Then came another turn, this time north-west on a trajectory that took it over the Strait of Malacca and out towards the Indian Ocean.

The Inmarsat signals, described as a series of hourly pings to a satellite, also indicated the plane had continued to fly beyond its last known point of contact. The Inmarsat signals do not transmit location but can indicate a position and distance relative to the satellite, which could give a guide to a rough direction of travel over several hours. David Coiley, vice-president of aviation at Inmarsat, told the Guardian that the receipt of such pings indicate "that the satellite communications are functioning".


The Wall Street Journal quoted US officials who said these signals persisted for another four to five hours.

The last known position of MH370 was at 1.21am on Saturday 8 March, at 35,000ft roughly 90 miles off the east coast of Malaysia as plane, with 239 people on board, made its way towards Vietnam en route to Beijing.

According to two US officials who spoke to ABC News, the Boeing 777's data reporting system was shut down at 1.07am last Saturday, while the transponder – which sends back information to civilian radar regarding performance, location and altitude – was turned off at 1.21am. That led investigators to believe the systems had been switched off on purpose.

Meanwhile the White House refused to comment on suggestions that US officials believe there may have been "an act of piracy". Jay Carney, the White House spokesman, said: "This is a difficult and unusual situation and we are working hard in close collaboration with the Malaysian government to investigate a number of possible scenarios for what happened to the flight.

He added: "Unfortunately, definitive conclusions still cannot be drawn at this time. I don't have conclusive answers. I don't think anyone has."

Sources told Reuters that the flight path of an unidentified aircraft, believed by investigators to have been the MH370 jet, followed a route with specific navigational waypoints, west towards the Andaman Islands after it last made contact with air traffic control.

If the aircraft picked up on the military radar is the missing jet, the data suggests it veered dramatically and deliberately westwards, heading north-east of Indonesia's Aceh province towards a navigational waypoint used for carriers headed towards the Middle East.

Malaysian military officials have previously confirmed that an aircraft that could have been MH370 was last seen on military radar at 2.15am some 200 miles off Malaysia's west coast.

The US has since moved surveillance planes into an area of the Indian Ocean 1,000 miles west of the Malayasian peninsula after an undisclosed suggestion that the plane may have crashed there. "We have an indication the plane went down in the Indian Ocean," a senior Pentagon official said.

The USS Kidd destroyer, which has helicopters aboard, will be moved to the western tip of the Malacca Strait, where it meets the Andaman Sea.

Most of the leads on the potential location have come from unattributed US sources assisting the Malaysian investigation. Under international protocols, the country where the missing aircraft was registered must lead the investigation.

Malaysian police have spent the past week investigating whether any personal or psychological problems affecting the crew or passengers may have had a role in the jet's disappearance, in addition to mechanical failure, hijacking or sabotage. Friday's revelations that the plane may have flown towards the Andaman Islands are the first real indication of a sinister cause.

At a press conference on Friday, Malaysia's defence and acting transport minister, Hishammuddin Hussein, said said there were four or five possibilities as to why the plane's communications systems may have been turned off.

"It could have been done intentionally, it could be done under duress, it could have been done because of an explosion," he said. "That's why I don't want to go into the realm of speculation. We are looking at all the possibilities."

Hishammuddin confirmed that the plane's passengers and crew were being looked into and added: "If investigation requires searching the pilots' homes, it will be done."

Aviation experts from the UK – in addition to a team from Rolls-Royce, which manufactured the 777's engines – were due to arrive in Malaysia on Friday night to help with the investigation, said the civil aviation chief, Azharuddin Abdul Rahman.

A total of 57 ships, 48 aircraft and 13 nations are taking part in the search and rescue mission. Indian planes and ships have begun searching the 572 islands comprising the Andaman and Nicobar island groups using heat-seeking devices to help find the missing plane.

A Chinese government spokesman would not be drawn on whether China believed the plane had flown for several hours or whether it had asked the US about the reports.

He added that China had asked Chinese commercial vessels to take note of any floating objects which might be connected to the missing flight. A subsequent comment suggested this applied to vessels in the Strait of Malacca.

The Chinese state news agency Xinhua reported on Friday evening that search vessel Haixun 31, which had been at work in the Gulf of Thailand, was heading to the Strait of Malacca to continue work there.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:18 pm

In 5, 10 years CNN will do a two hour special "Where Is Flight 370?", much like the pre 2011 bin Laden documentaries on cable tv. File footage with talking head analysts giving their expertise with some newly uncovered hypothesis.
It'll be the where's waldo puzzle, much like bin Laden, tho closer to DB Cooper as a memory hole blip
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby justdrew » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:31 pm

the survivors are no doubt on, The Island by now.

but hey, until wreckage is found, it must be assumed it's on it's way to Freedom Tower. Probably landed somewhere while they pull out the engine transponders and make the main transponder reprogrammable.

ok - not really, but there is some risk here.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby FourthBase » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:21 pm

The hell happened to this plane? So many stories, changes, twists. I half-expect the news to report soon that the newest theory according to law enforcement is...Remote Control Hijacking. It seems like they're dancing around that, like we're on the verge of that being the next official development. But, I don't know. It really does seem like it's either that, seriously, or it's one of the pilots. Right? What else could it be? (Well, it could possibly be a Bermuda Triangle, but what else is it actually likely to be?)
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Lord Balto » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:15 am

FourthBase » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:21 pm wrote:The hell happened to this plane? So many stories, changes, twists. I half-expect the news to report soon that the newest theory according to law enforcement is...Remote Control Hijacking. It seems like they're dancing around that, like we're on the verge of that being the next official development. But, I don't know. It really does seem like it's either that, seriously, or it's one of the pilots. Right? What else could it be? (Well, it could possibly be a Bermuda Triangle, but what else is it actually likely to be?)


“A normal investigation becomes narrower with time, as new information focuses the search. But this is not a normal investigation,” Mr Hussein said. “In this case, the information we have forces us to look further and further afield."


This sounds an awful lot like the Kennedy assassination, in that the very same thing has been said about that case.

As for the Bermuda Triangle, as I posted above, Ivan T Sanderson published a map many years ago of 10 equally spaced anomalous zones. The closest two were SE of Japan and W of Australia, so no match there. Someone has pointed out elsewhere that there is only one airport in the Andamans capable of supporting a 777 and it would have been noticed by now.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Lord Balto » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:21 am

justdrew » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:31 pm wrote:the survivors are no doubt on, The Island by now.

but hey, until wreckage is found, it must be assumed it's on it's way to Freedom Tower. Probably landed somewhere while they pull out the engine transponders and make the main transponder reprogrammable.

ok - not really, but there is some risk here.


Or in The Village.

The problem is, you need a serious airport to handle a 777, and these tend to be monitored by the local authorities. Where in the 5-hour circle is there a regime that would allow this kind of action?

Image

Keep in mind that these are straight line distances. If there is any zigzaging and doglegging to throw off investigators, the distances get shorter.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Fresno_Layshaft » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:44 am

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 hijacked, official says
No motive established or demands made


CBC says its offical:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-hijacked-official-says-1.2573080
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Lord Balto » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 am

Fresno_Layshaft » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:44 am wrote:Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 hijacked, official says
No motive established or demands made


CBC says its official:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-hijacked-official-says-1.2573080


The fact that an official of the right-wing government in Ottawa says something doesn't make it "official."

Still waiting for the FBI to "find" a list of 4¾ (19/4) Russian hijackers in a rental car in Kuala Lumpur. Pseudo-information Central (Huff Post) is now saying the plane could have flown for 7 hours and reached Kazakhstan. This truly is a magical plane.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby lucky » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:21 am

http://i.imgur.com/W8cCvpJ.jpg

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby chump » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:35 am

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2014/03 ... ment-79568
Theory: One of the members of the Five Power Defense Agreement countries accidentally shoots down an airliner (then the drone or fighter jet returns to Butterworth as the blip the military used to distract us the first time) and they know damn well after TWA Flight 800 that they can’t get away with claiming it was a mysterious “spark in the center fuel tank” so they determine it’s best if the plane is never found. But that becomes difficult as Vietnam and China don’t seem to be on the same page (which is why Vietnam and China are both angry as hell at this ‘investigation”) and keep turning up clues which would normally reduce the search area in a real plane crash investigation. So every time they do something that doesn’t help Malaysian authorities divert the search into the wrong location, someone has to come along with “new information” which widens the search area and now it is so large it couldn’t possibly be searched. Well, at that point, someone in our intelligence services comes to figure out, “what if the plane is never found? We could then use it for another purpose. It could just “turn up” flying into a stadium or another building that needs to be demoed.”

Ah. It’s a theory anyway.


A veritable plethora of worthwhile comments:

http://www.anomalyradio.com/media/arnew ... 40312a.mp3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... JpbZZKqxy0

------------------
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/awacs.html
AWACS HIJACK PROVEN

... Malaysian airlines flight 377 has been provably hijacked by an AWACS plane. This is outlined in the updates below. The Malaysian military now back paddled and said they did not track the plane, but that's a laugh, they had all the details. And THIS is probably why they forgot all about how they tracked it to the strait of Malacca...


... What could make a plane disappear from civilian radar while at 36,000 feet yet still be visible on military radar? ONE THING, and it looks like a UFO (as some have speculated) only it's attached to a boeing jet - the antenna on a U.S. Air Force AWACS plane. The fact that this missing jet vanished from civilian radar yet remained visible on more robust military radars proves well enough for me that this indeed was an AWACS hijacking, just like we saw on 9/11 where AWACS planes were seen on video observing if not controlling the crashes into the twin towers. Once the plane flew far enough West, Awacs was obviously enough to jam both civilian and military radars, probably because they entered a zone where the angle of both incoming signals allowed for their simultaneous cancellation. That is where the plane finally "vanished" forever, an hour after the "official" vanishing act. The final vanish happened while at 29,500 feet.

In this scenario, we now have: The plane did a u-turn and flew the other way for a now admitted full hour. THAT supports the Awacs story.

Obvious fake photoshopping of "terrorists". THAT supports the Awacs story.

Cell phones still ringing, which would only be possible with a safe landing. THAT supports the Awacs story

Missing black boxes. THAT supports the Awacs story (the plane is obviously intact)

A reason to electronically hijack the airplane - 20 top people from a semiconductor firm that works defense, with employees working for countries that are not allies yet VERY powerful - THAT supports the Awacs story

And the GRAND FINALE: PLANE DISAPPEARS FROM CIVILIAN RADARS WHILE REMAINING VISIBLE ON MILITARY RADARS. THAT supports the Awacs story and pushes it to the forefront of logic like a tsunami on a beach umbrella, if THAT does not raise a few eyebrows people are sleeping...


More comments...

http://www.4key.net/asia/malaysia-airli ... s-patents/
This update on Malaysia Airlines flight 370 is about an online message and e-mail that is currently circulating on the internet.

The message is posted below:

“Have you pieced together the puzzle of missing flight 370 to Beijing China ?? If not, here are your missing pieces.
Patents Patents Patents...

... Were there Freescale employees on board? Yes. And also at least one from IBM.

Is Freescale Semiconductor owned by Blackstone?

On April 27, 2013, Bloomberg published an article about the company in which it is confirmed that Freescale is indeed a Blackstone venture:

“Blackstone-Owned Freescale Rises as Forecast Tops Estimates: Freescale Semiconductor Ltd. (FSL), the chipmaker mostly owned by a private-equity group including Blackstone Group LP (BX) and TPG Capital, rose after predicting second-quarter sales that may exceed some analysts’ estimates.”

Is Rothschild linked to Blackstone? Yes, he is a Member of the International Advisory Board.

Is Blackstone one of the parties who are responsible for the missing airplane, flight 370?

The answer to that question can likely only come from those who ordered/organized the AWACS mission of March 8, 2014...


What does this company do? I saw this on Aangifan; who also linked to the JimStone post.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2014/03/m ... tolen.html

http://beforeitsnews.com/events/2014/03 ... 32744.html
... In Electronic Warfare jargon, however, electronic countermeasure exists. ECM is an electrical or electronic device designed to trick or deceive radar, sonar or other detection systems, like infrared (IR) or lasers. ECM can be used offensively and defensively to deny targeting information to an enemy.

The system can “make the real target appear to disappear or move about randomly. It is used effectively to protect aircraft from guided missiles,” according to Way.

“Most air forces use ECM to protect their aircraft from attack. It has also been deployed by military ships and recently on some advanced tanks to fool laser/IR guided missiles. It is frequently coupled with stealth advances so that the ECM systems have an easier job. Offensive ECM often takes the form of jamming. Defensive ECM includes using blip enhancement and jamming of missile terminal homers.” (Wikipedia)

Austin-based Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE:FSL) launched a major initiative dedicated to serving RF power needs of U.S. aerospace and defense (A&D) sector. It has a team of specialists dedicated to supporting defense customers.

Freescale confirmed yesterday that 20 of its employees were on Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, twelve from Malaysia and eight from China. The company’s key product solutions include those for electric vehicles, as this reporter highlighted yesterday:

“Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE:FSL) is a global leader in embedded processing solutions, providing industry leading products that are advancing the automotive, consumer, industrial and networking markets,” the company says on its website and in its statement today. ”… our technologies are the foundation for the innovations that make our world greener, safer, healthier and more connected.”

Freescale says its “key applications and end-markets include: automotive safety,hybrid and all-electric vehicles, next generation wireless infrastructure, smart energy management, portable medical devices, consumer appliances and smart mobile devices. The company is based in Austin, Texas, and has design, research and development, manufacturing and sales operations around the world. http://www.freescale.com

Freescale says its commercial products meet requirements of applications including EW:

Battlefield communications
Avionics
HF through L- and S-Band radar
Missile guidance
Electronic warfare
Identification, friend or foe (IFF)

Human rights regarding security and privacy, possibly terrorism...
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Lord Balto » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:05 am

Image

It occurs to me that if the plane continued on in a straight line, we need to look at where the two arcs intersect, which would be somewhere in Tibet or west of Australia. In any case, it would have to be somewhere on the final location arc and within the maximum distance circle, which places it between Tibet and the Indian Ocean west of Australia.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:50 am

Ah, yes. I just flashed on what this reminds me of.

Lost Horizon. I read it as a kid.

Before returning to England to become the new Foreign Secretary, writer, soldier and diplomat Robert Conway (Ronald Colman) has one last task in 1935 China: to rescue 90 Westerners in the city of Baskul. He flies out with the last few evacuees, just ahead of armed revolutionaries.

Unbeknownst to the passengers, the pilot has been replaced and their aircraft hijacked. It eventually runs out of fuel and crashes deep in the Himalayan Mountains, killing their abductor. The group is rescued by Chang (H.B. Warner) and his men and taken to Shangri-La, an idyllic valley sheltered from the bitter cold. The contented inhabitants are led by the mysterious High Lama (Sam Jaffe).

Initially anxious to return to civilization, most of the newcomers grow to love Shangri-La, including paleontologist Alexander Lovett (Edward Everett Horton), swindler Henry Barnard (Thomas Mitchell) and bitter, terminally ill Gloria Stone (Isabel Jewell), who miraculously seems to be recovering. Conway is particularly enchanted, especially when he meets Sondra (Jane Wyatt), who has grown up in Shangri-La. However, Conway's younger brother George (John Howard), and Maria (Margo), another beautiful young woman they find there, are determined to leave.

Conway eventually has an audience with the High Lama and learns that his arrival was no accident. The founder of Shangri-La is said to be hundreds of years old, preserved, like the other residents, by the magical properties of the paradise he has created, but is finally dying and needs someone wise and knowledgeable in the ways of the modern world to keep it safe. Having read Conway's writings, Sondra believed he was the one; the Lama had agreed with her and arranged for Conway's abduction. The old man names Conway as his successor and then peacefully passes away.

George refuses to believe the Lama's fantastic story and is supported by Maria. Uncertain and torn between love and loyalty, Conway reluctantly gives in to his brother and they leave, taking Maria with them, despite being warned that she is much older than she appears. After several days of grueling travel, she becomes exhausted and falls face down in the snow. When they turn her over, they discover that she had become extremely old and died. Her departure from Shangri-La had restored Maria to her true age. Horrified, George loses his sanity and jumps to his death.

Conway continues on and eventually meets up with a search party sent to find him, although the ordeal has caused him to lose his memory of Shangri-La. On the voyage back to England, he remembers everything; he tells his story and then jumps ship. The searchers track him back to the Himalayas, but are unable to follow him any further. Conway manages to return to Shangri-La.


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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Lord Balto » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:07 pm

82_28 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:50 am wrote:Ah, yes. I just flashed on what this reminds me of.

Lost Horizon. I read it as a kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Horiz ... 37_film%29


You will notice from the above map that the two arcs, maximum distance and final location, intersect in--you guessed it--Tibet.

Keep in mind, though, that not all Tibetans are as peaceable as the Dalai Lama.

And as someone at The Independent suggested, it should be possible to plot each successive hourly circle, which would tend to indicate whether the plane was traveling in a straight line or noodling about.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby Lord Balto » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:50 pm

Image

This is a map from the Guardian showing all airports where the plane supposedly could have landed. The question, again, is how many of these could the plane have used and not have been noticed and its whereabouts reported to international aviation authorities? I should point out that few of these are near the final satellite arcs. I should also point out that these appear to be limited to civilian airports. If this were some kind of black operation, we would also have to look at military airports.

What I find interesting is that no one drawing these maps for the major news agencies seems to be capable of combining all of the data into a single map. I would really like to see a map of maximum range, final satellite arcs, AND nearby airports. That might actually point toward a solution.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane down over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:32 pm

If it didn't plunge into the ocean, and actually landed somewhere, it seems impossible at this point that its location is not known to the major military powers. There are only so many airports to check out, and even if the media maps are inadequate for our remote amateur investigations, the militaries will have figured out likely trajectories in a more systematic fashion, and yes, there would also almost certainly be chatter from some country about the plane landing there. It's possible that the governments are conspiring to keep whatever happened secret during negotiations or preparation for a rescue attempt. But how would hijackers be so incompetent that they wouldn't be messaging by some means? There hasn't even been a hoax claim of contact from hijackers. There have also been no claims of responsibility from any corner, whether false-flag or otherwise, which would have arrived if this was an operation not to hijack but to destroy the plane as a terrorist show. A black op disappearance not involving a plunge but a capture, out of whatever motivation, would have to involve several putatively antagonistic governments in the cover-up, and a hell of a construct to explain their motivations to participate or look the other way (not that the merchandising community won't come up with 101 scenarios, see above for the first few; I like the stadium idea, that's very Tom Clancy as adapted by Michael Bay). So based on what's in front of us so far you have to think the likeliest scenario is hijack (whether live or remote) followed by a later plunge due to fuck-up. Less likely, a black-op hijack + intentional plunge with the design of sending a message to someone who has probably understood it, and for whatever reason isn't willing to let the world know. Or hijack + intentional plunge with the design of killing someone (or some group) on board, in which case no one other than direct perps may know what happened other than the targeted someone's friends, if even that. In short, I'm not hopeful about the passengers and have to think it's 50-50 at this point whether any explanation, credible or otherwise, will be forthcoming (also given that the plane almost certainly ain't going to be found if it was an unintended plunge). If an explanation does come, none of us will believe it (given the authorities from whom it is likely to come), even if by some chance it happens to be true.

Very sad for the people and their families. If I am wrong, I'll be happy to hear of it.

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