Russian military buildup in Syria...

[jingofever]

Russian passenger jet carrying 224 people crashes in Central Sinai.

According to Flightradar flight 7K9268 was descending with about 6,000 feet per minute just before the signal was lost.

Does that mean somebody was smashing it into the ground deliberately or do planes that crash tend to descend that quickly?

[82_28]

I'll have to ask my brother, but I don't think so. It would have been catastrophic structure failure or it was shot down. Either or. Given the circumstances in the region, my bet is on shot down.

[jingofever]

The Egyptian government says it was not shot down. They determined that faster than some pizzas are delivered. The weather was clear so "they" say it was likely not a factor.

Edit: from http://www.airlive.net/2015/10/breaking ... sinai.html

UPDATE The captain of #7K9268 told ATC after departure of a technical fault and requested a route change.

[parel]

:wave: here
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33717&start=795

Thank you dear SLAD!

[Nordic]

This may or may not have anything to do with this particular case, but it made me go "hmmm"

"Defy Israel, lose a jetliner"

http://www.tomatobubble.com/id513.html

[AlicetheKurious]

The official statements by Egypt all dismiss the likelihood that the plane was attacked by "terrorists", and many commenters emphasize that the plane was flying at 30,000 feet when it began to fall, which is reportedly too high up to be reached by a rocket. Some of the victims' bodies were found intact, and still strapped to their seats, and this wouldn't have been possible if the plane's body had been damaged high up in the sky.

It seems clear that the plane was not struck by a rocket or even missile, but began falling for some reason. Yet there was no distress signal. In fact, there was a sudden disappearance of all signals from the plane, before it began plunging rapidly to the ground.

There are just too many coincidences for me to dismiss. First, the plane crashed as it flew relatively close to the border with Israel. One day before the crash, Israel began the largest air force drills in its history.

Israel hosts largest-ever intl air force drill, pitting troops against fictional enemy
Published time: 30 Oct, 2015 14:56

Israel is hosting its largest-ever international air force exercise. The two-week 'Blue Flag' drill features Israeli, American, Greek and Polish troops in a battle against a fictional enemy state.

The Blue Flag drill consists of Israeli and American F-15 squadrons, as well as Israeli, Hellenic, and Polish F-16 squadrons flying through Israeli airspace while firing simulated weapons against fictional enemy missile launchers, convoys, and aircraft, the Israeli Air Force captain in charge of the exercise told the Times of Israel.

However, the captain said the exercise is designed to test the capabilities of the troops involved, rather than the military equipment itself.

“We wanted it to be challenging for the airmen, rather than for the machines,” said the IAF captain, who could not be named due to security reasons.

He added that those running the drill aim to surprise the soldiers, putting them in situations where “the pilot doesn't know where their target is coming from.”

Several countries, including Germany, sent pilots and officers to observe the exercise. The drill has officially ended, according to the Israeli Air Force, but local media reported that some exercises are expected to continue until November 3.

This is the second Blue Flag exercise to be hosted by Israel. The first, smaller drill took place in 2013. The Israeli, US, Greek and Italian air forces participated. Link

Second, the Russian plane crashed on October 31, 2015, sixteen years almost to the day after the mysterious crash of Egyptair Flight 990 after its take-off from New York on October 30, 1999, in which 33 of Egypt's most elite military officers were killed, as they were returning home after training in the US.

Third, that it just happened to be a Russian plane also seems too coincidental. Russian planes in Syria are driving the Americans and Israelis crazy, not only striking ISIS and other terrorist targets, but doing so while remaining beyond the reach of any anti-aircraft missiles that the US or Israel could supply to the terrorists, and effectively blinding NATO to Russian operations there.

Russian Jamming System Blocks All NATO Electronics over Syria
Ramil Sitdikov

12:45 29.10.2015(updated 22:02 30.10.2015)

From the combat zone in northern Syria comes news of the deployment of a new Russian electronic jamming system which can reportedly blind radar, disrupt electronic guidance systems, and interfere with satellite imagery as well.

This latest revelation follows the earlier report of the Russian cruiser mounted S-300 missile defense system deployed in the shore of Latakia. Both of these systems amount to what NATO’s supreme commander General Philip Breedlove described as the Russian A2/AD (anti-access/area denial) bubble in Syria, writes OSNet Daily.

As a result, NATO is effectively blinded inside a bubble of 600 km in diameter centered on the Russian base at Latakia, reports, Thierry Meyssan from Damascus.

Russian Secret Weapon Deployed in Syria

The technology in question seems similar to the KRET Richag-AV system, although it apparently functions on a larger scale. A tactical version of this system was presented to journalists in April 2015. As Sputnik reported then:

“The Richag-AV system, mounted on the Mi-8MTPR1 (a variant of the Mi-8MTB5-1 helicopter) is said to have no global equivalent. Its electronic countermeasures system is designed to jam radar, sonar and other detection systems in the aims of defending aircraft, helicopters, drones, ground and naval forces against air-to-air and surface-to-air defense systems within a radius of several hundred kilometers. It can be mounted on units from any branch of the armed forces, including helicopters and airplanes, as well as ground and ship-based forces. The Mi8-MTPR1-based Richag-AV platform, using multi-beam antenna arrays with DRFM technology, is designed to actively jam and thus ‘blind’ radar systems in order to defend against radio-electronic guided weapons systems. In a combat situation, the system would operate as part of an aviation shock attack group aimed at breaking through virtually any defense system, blinding everything up to and including the US MIM-104 ‘Patriot’ anti-aircraft missile system.”

NATO supreme commander and US Air Force General Philip Breedlove was probably talking about this new KRET system when he addressed the German Marshall Fund on Monday, September 28. Here Breedlove had warned that Russia was creating an “A2/AD bubble” over the Syrian coast, and the eastern Mediterranean. A2/AD is the abbreviation for anti-access and area denial. Breedlove pointed out that Russia has already established such bubbles over the Baltic Sea at the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad, and also over the Crimea and the Black Sea.

‘While Russia’s stated goal in moving into Syria is to fight the Islamic State, NATO’s top commander believes Russia’s new presence includes the first pieces of an intricate layer of defensive systems deployed to hinder U.S. and coalition operations in the region. “As we see the very capable air defense [systems] beginning to show up in Syria, we’re a little worried about another A2/AD bubble being created in the eastern Mediterranean,” said Breedlove. During the early stages of warfare, A2/AD could have been a moat around a castle, or spikes dug into the ground—anything to keep the enemy off a certain swathe of territory. In the 21st century, however, A2/AD is a combination of systems such as surface-to-air missile batteries and anti-ship missiles deployed to prevent forces from entering or traversing a certain area—from land, air or sea. According to Breedlove, the introduction of an A2/AD bubble in Syria would be Russia’s third denial zone around Europe. The first and oldest he said, was in the Baltics where the Russian naval base in Kaliningrad has robust anti-air capabilities. The second zone —originating from Crimea — covers the Black Sea. “Russia has developed a very strong A2/AD capability in the Black Sea,” said Breedlove. “Essentially their [anti-ship] cruise missiles range the entire Black Sea, and their air defense missiles range about 40 to 50 percent of the Black Sea.”

In addition, the Russian military had provided a demonstration of their ability to blind even the sophisticated Aegis phased array radar, which is part of the equipment of modern US cruisers and destroyers. This incident came during the Crimean crisis of spring 2014, when the US sent a destroyer into the Black Sea. This ship was repeatedly buzzed up by a Russian Sukhoi-24 jet fighter, which was able to cripple the radar guidance the systems of the vessel. Here is a summary of the incident from Live Leak:

“The US destroyer USS Donald Cook, equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles entered the neutral waters of the Black Sea on April 10, 2014. The purpose was a demonstration of force and intimidation in connection with the position of Russia in Ukraine and Crimea. The appearance of American warships in these waters is in contradiction of the Montreux Convention about the nature and duration of stay in the Black Sea by the military ships of countries not washed by this sea. In response, Russia sent an unarmed bomber Su- 24 to fly around the U.S. destroyer. However, experts say that this plane was equipped with the latest Russian electronic warfare complex. According to this version, Aegis spotted from afar the approaching aircraft, and sounded alarm. Everything went normally, and the American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. But suddenly all the screens went blank. Aegis was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated a missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.”

Link

What if the Americans/Israelis have developed an advanced A2/AD system of their own, which jams electronic systems and renders them inoperable? What if it was used on the Russian passenger plane yesterday, and this was the Americans'/Israelis' way of proving that they have it?

Everybody's saying that we have to wait for the results of the investigation. I'm positive the investigation will be very thorough and will get to the bottom of this crash. I'm equally positive the actual results of the investigation will never be made public. Instead, the two sides will continue to play cat and mouse, in a brutal, vicious, all-out war of survival that will not be openly declared.

[Occult Means Hidden]

I know it is hip to suspect the U.S. in downing the airliner. I know it is natural to suspect Israel of downing the airliner. But Egyptian intelligence, never on your radar. Not on Alice's.

My assertion in the first few pages of this thread is that Egyptian intelligence and its military is deeply in bed with American intelligence. Draw from that what you will.

[backtoiam]

My assertion in the first few pages of this thread is that Egyptian intelligence and its military is deeply in bed with American intelligence. Draw from that what you will.

I think you are probably correct. If you were incorrect Egypt would have bombs raining from the sky on it. Let us be realistic. These people have fighter jets. They bomb people they don't like. Egypt is not getting bombed.

(alice, i love you more than you will ever know, i value your words like a sage, but i think this is probably the case, unfortunately)

[Occult Means Hidden]

Let's not fret over any delicate sensibilities. Of course this is the case.

[zangtang]

. I'm positive the investigation will be very thorough and will get to the bottom of this crash. I'm equally positive the actual results of the investigation will never be made public. Instead, the two sides will continue to play cat and mouse, in a brutal, vicious, all-out war of survival that will not be openly declared.

I don't know what the truth is - but I'd bet that its something almost exactly like that.....like a playbook...or a mantra....or standard operating procedure.

That German one in the mountains ringing any correlation bells?
- aah but of course the copilot there was suicidally insane & visited psychiatrists 480 times in the previous 6 months.

[AlicetheKurious]

My assertion in the first few pages of this thread is that Egyptian intelligence and its military is deeply in bed with American intelligence. Draw from that what you will.

I think you are probably correct. If you were incorrect Egypt would have bombs raining from the sky on it. Let us be realistic. These people have fighter jets. They bomb people they don't like. Egypt is not getting bombed.

Of course, people are free to believe whatever they like. OMH, your "assertion" is not very convincing, given that you have put forth neither facts, nor logic, nor much beyond the most superficial knowledge about the issue to back it up.

As for Egypt not being bombed, that's not quite true. Just two days ago, near dawn on Friday morning, a friend of mine was evacuated from her building because a sharp-eyed porter's wife next door noticed piles of strange-looking rocks surrounding the building and piled up against trees, etc. The porter's wife informed one of the residents, who called the bomb squad. Every one of those rocks turned out to be camouflaged bombs. The likely target was a police check-point that is positioned there every Friday. There were enough bombs to kill hundreds of people in those buildings and on the street. Unfortunately, although such incidents are becoming increasingly rare (mostly because they are stopped in time), the terrorists show no signs of having given up. All too often, the attacks are successful. Every single day, we lose at least one police officer or army officer or soldier to bombs planted on roadsides, in residential neighborhoods, in college bathrooms, or wherever the sickos have access. Every single day.

The purpose of such attacks, along with the relentless propaganda against Egypt, is to scare away tourists and investors and prevent Egypt's economic recovery after the devastation of the past five years; an equally important objective is to create a sense of distrust and insecurity about the police and army's ability to defend people's lives.

The US doesn't militarily attack countries that are strong, united and defended by powerful armies. Egypt is. The Egyptian army is the 12th most powerful army on earth, and despite the relentless efforts of George Soros and his cohorts, the overwhelming majority of the people are united with each other and with their president.

The US only attacks countries that are either already weak , or that it has "softened up" via its agents; the US only attacks countries that are politically and economically isolated. Egypt is not weak, though it has some major challenges to overcome, and despite the US' best efforts to isolate Egypt, a lot has been accomplished during the past two years: Egypt's membership in the Union of African states has been reactivated (after it was frozen due to US pressure in 2013); Egypt has established very close ties with Russia and China and France and Italy and Greece, and is closely allied with almost all Arab countries (with the sole exception of Qatar, if one chooses to define it as an Arab country); just recently, Egypt was elected to a non-permanent seat at the UN Security Council by 93% of the vote (though the US, Israel, the UK, Qatar, Turkey, Iran and Ethiopia were among those which either abstained or voted against).

So, to sum up, Egypt doesn't currently fit the profile of a country that either the US or Israel would directly attack. A direct attack against Egypt would only serve to further unify and mobilize not only Egypt, but it would empower and solidify the front that is forming in the region and globally to counter the US and its imperialist bullying. But indirect attacks, now that's another story. We've had plenty of those, with no end in sight. And of course, Russia is the US' number one target. Targeting a Russian airplane and murdering 224 innocent Russians on their return from an Egyptian tourist holiday would kill a number of birds with one shot. If this could also send a message about the US/Israel's acquisition of technology to rival the Russians' A2/AD capabilities, this would be a bonus.

Given the available facts, this scenario is not at all unreasonable.

[82_28]

I just heard on CBS news that they found a five year old girl (dead) five miles from the crash site "indicating" it broke up in flight. I have no idea other than that is what I just heard. They did bring up the limits of known surface to air missiles only being able to reach 20 thousand feet or some such shit. I have no idea what these dicks do. But a relatively new Airbus (forget the model) accidentally breaking up is plain stupid. It was either shot down or there was a bomb.

[82_28]

Also was it flying out of Cairo? If so, I doubt it had gotten to 30k feet yet given where it crashed. But could have I guess.

[backtoiam]

Whenever I need a reason to remember why I don't talk to normal people all I have to do is check my phone. I swear, this sort of stuff make me want to poke my own eyeballs out.

A friend of mine watched a video on Newsmax TV. Whatever that is.

He has discovered that Iran has never done a single good thing in this world ever that has ever been any good for humanity and they need to be nuked as soon as possible. He just wanted me to know that he is spreading the word and wants me to help him spread the word because this is important.

I contemplated what my response should be. I decided that I don't have one. Damn.....

I'm gonna drink some vodka...why not...

[Occult Means Hidden]

Of course, people are free to believe whatever they like. OMH, your "assertion" is not very convincing, given that you have put forth neither facts, nor logic, nor much beyond the most superficial knowledge about the issue to back it up.

...


The US doesn't militarily attack countries that are strong, united and defended by powerful armies. Egypt is. The Egyptian army is the 12th most powerful army on earth, and despite the relentless efforts of George Soros and his cohorts, the overwhelming majority of the people are united with each other and with their president.

.

Well if you really think it is necessary that I document the close relationship between Egypt and the United States' intelligence services then I'll have to do so. But I'll do so grudgingly because this is something that should be well understood. It is already well understood that western intelligence was involved in the Muslim Brotherhood. No need to document that. Yet, I suppose I need to throw an encyclopedia of documents to assert that this occurred with knowledge and endorsement by Egyptian intelligence. Do I need to document CIA agent Michael Scheuer's endorsements, Former prime minister Ahmed Nazif's 2005 public statements or Bill Clinton's June 1995 agreement with Egypt to receive suspected terrorists? Apparently so.

It's interesting that Alice is distrustful of George Soros. Could it be because his Open Society Justice Initiative exposed and continued to expose throughout 2013, Egypt's role in America's extraordinary rendition program? 2013 was a delicate time for Egypt. If George is on the CIA's side, why is his organization condemning the United States and Egypt's role in the program? This doesn't fit with her narrative. https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/ ... -rendition

Some of the other nefarious agenda items by Soros' Open Society Justice Initiative include exposing the human cost of CIA drone strikes in Yemen and encouraging Israeli soldiers to speak out against abusive actions perpetuated by their own government.