A hundred organized men on violent rampage in Stockholm.

[jakell]

If you feel like it, bks, you have an open invitation to share your thoughts on "the banality of evil" as it relates to Fascism.

Why limit it to fascism though? taking it wider than that moves us properly into the territory of banality.

[tapitsbo]

The status quo with its course set for default vulgar transhumanism certainly meets bks' definition of fascism.

So do all the radical left mutations I've encountered in the flesh.

This post is not a "reply" to bks or anyone else in particular.

"Good faith" is the arbitrary empty stammering of a bully losing their grip, in this case.

You people (jack, AD, bks) never deserve the label "interlocutor" in real life or here.

Taking the bait of jakell's sniggering prodding bespeaks a neurotic itch for full spectrum dominance that will never be fulfilled and will ultimately break you.

[American Dream]

Are you suggesting he's not an anti-fascist or something?

[tapitsbo]

Polite speech codes are shitty wrapping paper for a narcissist dealth cult and yes, that includes you, anti-fascism (which isn't any individual person)

Good faith my fucking asshole. I don't owe this shit a speck of credulity...

[jakell]

Taking the bait of jakell's sniggering prodding bespeaks a neurotic itch for full spectrum dominance that will never be fulfilled and will ultimately break you.

I would say that this is a mischaracterisation (ok, maybe 'prodding')

Maybe I'm putting a negative slant on 'sniggering', but it makes me think of 'sneering' (and Beavis and Butthead)

[bks]

The status quo with its course set for default vulgar transhumanism certainly meets bks' definition of fascism.

So do all the radical left mutations I've encountered in the flesh.

This post is not a "reply" to bks or anyone else in particular.

"Good faith" is the arbitrary empty stammering of a bully losing their grip, in this case.

You people (jack, AD, bks) never deserve the label "interlocutor" in real life or here.

Taking the bait of jakell's sniggering prodding bespeaks a neurotic itch for full spectrum dominance that will never be fulfilled and will ultimately break you.

I don't care about the insult directed at me, tabispo. Par for the course. You're wrong, but who gives a fuck?

More importantly: go ahead and try to show how good faith is "the arbitrary empty stammering of a bully losing their grip, in this case."

"in this case," I have given a definition of fascism which you agreed with, at least in one application of it (not sure I myself agree with your application, but that's not the point.)

What is bullying about denying a platform to fascists?

[tapitsbo]

Jakell, Gullibility and "playing along" with these people and engaging their framework is a total waste of time. They already understand that themselves, see?

Bks i owe you nothing

[jakell]

Jakell, Gullibility and "playing along" with these people and engaging their framework is a total waste of time. They already understand that themselves, see?

Bks i owe you nothing

I see what you mean, but it has become my way to 'live in' a particular situation rather than to push towards some sort of outcome, I learn by osmosis and try to have a light touch (stimulates my intuitive side). I broached this sort of thing when talking to Luther recently about the pros and cons of trying to steer discourse.

You may have noticed that I do try avoid being dragged into extended bickering, so I do have an awareness of time's value (a bit of bickering's ok)

[bks]

tapitsbo » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:29 pm wrote:

Taking the bait of jakell's sniggering prodding bespeaks a neurotic itch for full spectrum dominance that will never be fulfilled and will ultimately break you.

This deserves a reply:

1. you may be right about what jakell is doing;

2. you dont understand "full spectrum dominance," and you wrongly characterize what I've suggested as such. I said I am happy to see fascists denied a platform, but I will remind you that I also said I do not spend my time, effort or money doing so. I DO wish for them to be dominated, that is true. And why? Exclusively due to their pre-existing wishes to dominate me or my friends. Remove that wish, and my wish for their domination also leaves.

No need for a cheap "neurosis" hypothesis.

3. nothing i have said implies a desire for dominance of any other set of ideas or views. It only means: certain views aren't permitted, the kind that are emitting from those not amenable to updating their views, ( who will not remain open to mind-changing as a possible outcome of their interlocution) AND whose views pose an inarguable existential threat (in practice) to other interlocutors. Both premises have to be in place.

[tapitsbo]

Get outside and go on a violent rampage or something.

(muh existential threat sounds like what a literal self identified fascist would say)

[bks]

Jakell, Gullibility and "playing along" with these people and engaging their framework is a total waste of time. They already understand that themselves, see?

Bks i owe you nothing

More metadiscursive games.

You're failing to articulate a framework of your own that makes sense. I've articulated mine - I've taken the step associated with "good faith" to make my assumptions visible. Whether or not IN MY HEART I show good faith (or in YOUR HEART you show good faith) means nothing in this context, since those things are unknowable.

I mean, yeah, I think you're probably a piece of shit. (I said "probably," Rex) I haven't given it 5 seconds thought before today, tbh. But I'm still willing to suspend belief long enough to give you a chance to say something intelligent. And you're not just speaking to me, obviously. There are others here. What more do you want?

All you and I have is this argument. I'm asking you to engage it. ASKING. I'll ask again:

What is bullying about denying a platform to fascists?

If you think argument itself is worthless, then what do you want or need a platform for?

[tapitsbo]

I told you what I wanted in the post above if I had a framework, it wouldn't be for sharing with you. not sorry!

[bks]

Glad we understand each other (or in your case, misunderstand).

[Luther Blissett]

Jakell, Gullibility and "playing along" with these people and engaging their framework is a total waste of time. They already understand that themselves, see?

Bks i owe you nothing

I see what you mean, but it has become my way to 'live in' a particular situation rather than to push towards some sort of outcome, I learn by osmosis and try to have a light touch (stimulates my intuitive side). I broached this sort of thing when talking to Luther recently about the pros and cons of trying to steer discourse.

You may have noticed that I do try avoid being dragged into extended bickering, so I do have an awareness of time's value (a bit of bickering's ok)

A bit off-topic but I really have no idea which thread the conversation started on — do you feel like you made any good gains at the BDF (whether you changed any minds by focusing on what was being said rather than the clear undertones, uncovered any surreptitious organizing, "steered discourse," etc)? When you first started out were you going alone or was it premeditated between a small group of you? Did plans as they were change as your time went on there?

[jakell]

A bit off-topic but I really have no idea which thread the conversation started on — do you feel like you made any good gains at the BDF (whether you changed any minds by focusing on what was being said rather than the clear undertones, uncovered any surreptitious organizing, "steered discourse," etc)? When you first started out were you going alone or was it premeditated between a small group of you? Did plans as they were change as your time went on there?

Not really in the wider sense of antifascism, in my later years though I've become resigned to how little I can really change in the world, even my part of it. I achieved a good working knowledge of the fault lines within the British Far Right at that time and it's trajectory, and I think I achieved a not insignificant number of ideological victories which may or may not have an effect on onlookers and fencesitters.

The questions you pose here are important ones and I addressed them in better detail in the series of which that 'tactics' post was part. I'll probably revisit this myself at some stage and maybe even try to improve on it, but at the moment I'm trying to concentrate on the present rather than dwell on the past, I think things are significantly different now.