Angry White People

[tapitsbo]

You're a skilled interpreter if you can piece together what Jakell is saying in this thread. Not that I don't enjoy his contributions, too.

[jakell]

You're a skilled interpreter if you can piece together what Jakell is saying in this thread. Not that I don't enjoy his contributions, too.

Keeping it simple.. a possible explanation for the asymmetrical results of that one YouGov survey (of course there will be others, but I kept it to the one).
I also resisted a movement into a wider discussion of race, which would be getting too woolly at present.

I've also made a brief exploration of the Benjamin Zephaniah piece, but that will have to sit on the back burner for a while I think.

So it's not just about the poll - I'm really just trying to get a handle on what you are talking about, jakell

Possible explanations for the asymmetry in the poll's results, no more, which is what Joe asked me about.
Really I would like to rap some more on the OP, but I think that will be a while coming.

I know I know... rigour and consistency are sometimes considered to be pretty dull. All the same, I think I'll stick to my guns.

[tapitsbo]

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[jakell]

I wouldn't have it any other way.

If your response is to this:

I know I know... rigour and consistency are sometimes considered to be pretty dull. All the same, I think I'll stick to my guns.

Then, TBH, I'd love to start making a move into the wider issues here, but I'm being very careful as they're pretty explosive in the present climate. RI might just be starting to get ready for this, but it's early days yet.

This is why I suggested we try to confine those wider issues (about race) to the 'Abolish' thread, where there is already some good foundational material. Spreading it around over many different threads is no use at all.

[Joe Hillshoist]

You're a skilled interpreter if you can piece together what Jakell is saying in this thread. Not that I don't enjoy his contributions, too.

He is trying to suggest that survey result is so skewed cos black people feel they are different to other races hence the importance of their blackness to them. He's ignoring the historical and current context.

One of those graphs Wombat posted shows black people are considered to be a burden on society by nearly everyone else.

Given that race is already important to people's identity - if the rest of society criminalises you and sees you as a burden then however you feel about yourself you will be aware that race, well skin colour, is important to your sense of identity. if you live in an institutionally racist society then of course your race/skin colour has a massive effect on your identity. Jakell is assuming or framing this as about racial pride when its really about recognition of what impacts your life every day. Which is the way your race or skin colour is perceived by others of a different race.

[jakell]

You're a skilled interpreter if you can piece together what Jakell is saying in this thread. Not that I don't enjoy his contributions, too.

He is trying to suggest that survey result is so skewed cos black people feel they are different to other races hence the importance of their blackness to them. He's ignoring the historical and current context.

Not really, this is what I said:

If I may borrow some cooler thinking on the subject from WN's (I'm sure there are other expressions of this, but theirs seems the most uncluttered), it could be said that the data here indicates that blacks tend more to be 'race realists', and that others have modified their outward expressions somewhat (virtue signalling, or just plain fear of the thought police), whites being the biggest pussies.
This is actually also an attempt at levelling racial sensibility, but coming from a different direction.

Notice I identified this as one possible explanation.

I also suggested that the skewed results could be down to whites and not the focus you choose here.

[Sounder]

Just my impression, as I did not look at or think much about the OKcupid piece, but.

White people that strongly identify as being white, probably tend toward racism, on the other hand ethnic folk that identify with their race, may do so to a large degree because that is how others identify them.

[Joe Hillshoist]

You're a skilled interpreter if you can piece together what Jakell is saying in this thread. Not that I don't enjoy his contributions, too.

He is trying to suggest that survey result is so skewed cos black people feel they are different to other races hence the importance of their blackness to them. He's ignoring the historical and current context.

Not really, this is what I said:

If I may borrow some cooler thinking on the subject from WN's (I'm sure there are other expressions of this, but theirs seems the most uncluttered), it could be said that the data here indicates that blacks tend more to be 'race realists', and that others have modified their outward expressions somewhat (virtue signalling, or just plain fear of the thought police), whites being the biggest pussies.
This is actually also an attempt at levelling racial sensibility, but coming from a different direction.

Notice I identified this as one possible explanation.

I also suggested that the skewed results could be down to whites and not the focus you choose here.

Ok so you said black people feel they are different to other races* hence the importance of their blackness to them but cos white people don't do this anymore they are pussies.

So it seems you falsely attribute the skewed statistics to black "race realism" and think the response to this situation is that white people should adopt race realism as a way of approaching racial issues - that they are cowed or beaten down by some oppressive force that prevents them expressing their biological heritage and they should stop being "pussies" about it.

If I didn't know better I'd think you might be trying to suggest the outlying stat suggests institutional racism is holding whitey back.

* If I may borrow some cooler thinking on the subject from WN's (I'm sure there are other expressions of this, but theirs seems the most uncluttered), it could be said that the data here indicates that blacks tend more to be 'race realists',

[Joe Hillshoist]

Just my impression, as I did not look at or think much about the OKcupid piece, but.

White people that strongly identify as being white, probably tend toward racism, on the other hand ethnic folk that identify with their race, may do so to a large degree because that is how others identify them.

That's what i reckon it suggests.

EDIE: Well one of the things anyway.

[jakell]

You're a skilled interpreter if you can piece together what Jakell is saying in this thread. Not that I don't enjoy his contributions, too.

He is trying to suggest that survey result is so skewed cos black people feel they are different to other races hence the importance of their blackness to them. He's ignoring the historical and current context.

Not really, this is what I said:

If I may borrow some cooler thinking on the subject from WN's (I'm sure there are other expressions of this, but theirs seems the most uncluttered), it could be said that the data here indicates that blacks tend more to be 'race realists', and that others have modified their outward expressions somewhat (virtue signalling, or just plain fear of the thought police), whites being the biggest pussies.
This is actually also an attempt at levelling racial sensibility, but coming from a different direction.

Notice I identified this as one possible explanation.

I also suggested that the skewed results could be down to whites and not the focus you choose here.

Ok so you said black people feel they are different to other races* hence the importance of their blackness to them but cos white people don't do this anymore they are pussies.

Nope, didn't say anything about black people feeling they're different to other races, this is the second time I have refuted this

So it seems you falsely attribute the skewed statistics to black "race realism" and think the response to this situation is that white people should adopt race realism as a way of approaching racial issues - that they are cowed or beaten down by some oppressive force that prevents them expressing their biological heritage and they should stop being "pussies" about it.

Nope, I've described one point of view, its origin and some details.
I've certainly avoided opining on what anyone should do.

If I didn't know better I'd think you might be trying to suggest the outlying stat suggests institutional racism is holding whitey back.

* If I may borrow some cooler thinking on the subject from WN's (I'm sure there are other expressions of this, but theirs seems the most uncluttered), it could be said that the data here indicates that blacks tend more to be 'race realists',

[Joe Hillshoist]

Nope, didn't say anything about black people feeling they're different to other races, this is the second time I have refuted this

What's "race realism" then?

You say your whole thing is "WNs think this:..." (which we already knew,) and "...its just one view."

Why is it the only view you put forward?

You've spent countless words trying to keep the focus of the discussion on WN tropes to the exclusion of all others. You give them no platform.

Why?

[jakell]

What's "race realism" then?

A term I borrowed from WN's to describe their thinking, hence my use of inverted commas.

You say your whole thing is "WNs think this:..." (which we already knew,) and "...its just one view."

Why is it the only view you put forward?

Simplicty (I'm not writing a paper), about the only thing that will cut through the noise on this subject

You've spent countless words trying to keep the focus of the discussion on WN tropes to the exclusion of all others. You give them no platform.

Why?

Actually, I've spent very few words on it, the rest have been to point back to those in the face of people trying to (inadvertently) complicate issues. There is an alternative WN trope that I have so far failed to mention.

Ironically, WN sources are one of the few who seem to facillitate clear thinking on this subject, ie, even when they're wrong (which is most of the time) at least they're definitively wrong and a firm hold can be taken.
Progressives on the other hand find it hard to even get around to it, a fundamental issue being that they can't decide whether it is real or not.

Another motivation for me keeping this simple is that I really want to talk about the OP and the NF etc, I'm entertaining all this because you wanted me to put it aside for the time being (like you said, it won't go away). There's no good reason why the subject of race should be smeared thinly across 10 interchangeable threads, it's a pain in the arse

[Karmamatterz]

Data from okcupid or any other dating site proves nothing about racism. If the people who use blackcupid.com predominantly choose black people rather than other races does that make them racist? Of course racism exists all over the place, I see and hear it in my community. You can't regulate the desire to have sex with someone, it's a natural part of being human.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Data from okcupid or any other dating site proves nothing about racism. If the people who use blackcupid.com predominantly choose black people rather than other races does that make them racist? Of course racism exists all over the place, I see and hear it in my community. You can't regulate the desire to have sex with someone, it's a natural part of being human.

Where does that desire come from?

How much of sexual desire is biological or genetic (nature) and how much is a result of cultural (nurture) attitudes?

What happens you meet and individual you are attracted to is one thing, what is going on when describing and/or assessing a website for your ideal partner is another. The OKCupid info is a reflection of peoples ideal preferences and how they structure their attention to follow those preferences not an analysis of who people are physically attracted to when the meet each other physically.

And who is talking about regulating desire? Not me anyway. That data points out a thing, it doesn't suggest what if anything should be done in response to the data. There is a big difference between pointing out the sky is blue and suggesting we should paint it purple.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Another motivation for me keeping this simple is that I really want to talk about the OP and the NF etc, I'm entertaining all this because you wanted me to put it aside for the time being (like you said, it won't go away). There's no good reason why the subject of race should be smeared thinly across 10 interchangeable threads, it's a pain in the arse.

Yeah fine this is going nowhere.

Tell us what your WN mates think about attacking defenseless coons.