US Punishes Russia for Election Hacking Ejecting Operatives

[Elvis]

Elsewhere in the report, RT's coverage of third party candidates is given as evidence of attempts to undermine US democracy.

Too funny.

[Nordic]

Who would ask such a question as to WHY it's chilling?

They have the audacity to assert that RT was "undermining" US "democracy" because they hosted a debate between third party candidates.

If you think that the Deep State considers this to be some sort of fact is fucking CHILLING, yes.

They also accused an Abby Martin show that hadn't been on for 2 Fucking years of having unfairly affected the election.

We're talking about basic freedom of the press and freedom of speech being held up as examples of foreign sabotage.

If you don't find that chilling there is something seriously wrong with you.

[JackRiddler]

Just curious about how you think the anti-RT stuff is chilling? Chilling in its condemnation or chilling it in its evidence as a Kremlin front?
I think the report being fluffy in many aspects was actually pretty cogent on RT being a large anti-US prograganda mill.
My sense is the finding in the report is accurate, they just can't reveal smoking guns without losing the access and means of getting those smoking guns.

You actually read this crap?

There's a section about how RT showing a documentary about Occupy Wall Street in November 2012 was a plot to influence the U.S. election because said documentary suggests the U.S. government is corrupt and subject to corporate influence.

The documentary is "American Autumn," dir. Dennis Trainor and it's fucking great. I am proud to have helped organize a screening of it already months earlier. I guess I was a fucking Russian agent too! Before the Russians even knew they would be broadcasting it.

This is a bizarroland redux of the dumbest days of Red Scare chilling of free speech. The "evidence" of "anti-Americanism" consists in critique of U.S. institutions. And then that qualifies as meddling in elections, too! No doubt knocking the murder incorporated of the CIA itself would qualify. Lese majeste!

.

[brekin]

Are people really saying that there were no media that disenfranchised possible voters from Hilary?
Of course not.
So why not run those (even well meaning, well done, compelling ones) around election time to cool off potential voters for her? Remember how Hilary = Wall Street?
Is anyone really going to challenge RT is not state propaganda?
Why would they not leverage material, even true material, for their own agenda?

This isn't rocket science or even a free speech issue.
Advertising gets people to do stupid shit all the time.
That the report points out the obvious (that a foreign government backed phoney tv station running documentaries that casts a candidate in a bad light would throw support to their preferred candidate to destabilize the country) shouldn't be dismissed.
That many Americans are dumb is no surprise. That they are preferring to get their news now from the Kremlin shows they are getting dumber. That in doing so a reality tv star became president is seen as sticking it to the man shows they are possibly past the point of no return.

[JackRiddler]

Are people really saying that there were no media that disenfranchised possible voters from Hilary?

What do you mean by the usage of disenfranchised.

Of course media are the primary influence on all elections. (It requires a properly dumbed down people but patriotism and education have already provided for that in most countries.) Corporate media made Trump more than any other factor, no argument. The U.S.-based corporate media, you understand. They also anointed Clinton as the winner two years in advance. In this shitshow, there were various other players, including RT. It's not that different with the spying -- these countries devote enormous budgets to it, as you know, to spy on each other. Electronically, mostly. When Russian spying on U.S. is suddenly presented as something exceptional and not reciprocal, in the context of talk about cyberwarfare and retaliation on the way, you've surely got to see the dangers.

Surely you understand in the current atmosphere with demands that social media censor "fake news" (if so designated by snopes and WaPo) then when CIA is citing reporting on OWS as evidence of Russian manipulation of election this is a chilling effect!

Remember how Hilary = Wall Street?

And now, as we see, and as comes to no surprise except the Trump patsies, Trump=Wall Street. Golly gee.

That they are preferring to get their news now from the Kremlin shows they are getting dumber.

What are RT's ratings? The statement is even more absurd than the idea that the availability of the Podesta and DNC e-mails swung the election.

What would be wrong with watching multiple outlets including RT?

.

[brekin]

Are people really saying that there were no media that disenfranchised possible voters from Hilary?

What do you mean by the usage of disenfranchised.

Of course media are the primary influence on all elections. (It requires a properly dumbed down people but patriotism and education have already provided for that in most countries.) Corporate media made Trump more than any other factor, no argument. The U.S.-based corporate media, you understand. They also anointed Clinton as the winner two years in advance. In this shitshow, there were various other players, including RT. It's not that different with the spying -- these countries devote enormous budgets to it, as you know, to spy on each other. Electronically, mostly. When Russian spying on U.S. is suddenly presented as something exceptional and not reciprocal, in the context of talk about cyberwarfare and retaliation on the way, you've surely got to see the dangers.

Surely you understand in the current atmosphere with demands that social media censor "fake news" (if so designated by snopes and WaPo) then when CIA is citing reporting on OWS as evidence of Russian manipulation of election this is a chilling effect!

Remember how Hilary = Wall Street?

And now, as we see, and as comes to no surprise except the Trump patsies, Trump=Wall Street. Golly gee.

That they are preferring to get their news now from the Kremlin shows they are getting dumber.

What are RT's ratings? The statement is even more absurd than the idea that the availability of the Podesta and DNC e-mails swung the election.

What would be wrong with watching multiple outlets including RT?

.

Jack, you have to skim the report, the number of RT watched videos on YouTube is insane compared to traditional sorts of media outlets. I'm all for watching multiple outlets, I encourage it, even Rasputin Today, but what is happening is citizens are going to RT, and similar ilk, as a primary source, and discounting traditional outlets. Hard to run, even have, a country when people start to believe all institutions are corrupted by a cabal of sorts that somehow Trump and freedom loving Russia is immune from. We've seen the results here, of those shrieking how the US wants a war with Russia that only Trump and Putin are working to prevent. The new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is to realize that the system actually for all its flaws is pretty good compared to some other ones and throwing everyone out of office under a demagogue would be pretty lame-o for Western Civilization. Yes, conspiracy, corruption, war mongering exists, and should be reported, but people need to realize those telling you the truth may be just working to get you to live under another set of lies. Yes, it is hip to be square. Just the classic version, not American Psycho version.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

I'm all for watching multiple outlets, I encourage it, even Rasputin Today, but what is happening is citizens are going to RT, and similar ilk, as a primary source, and discounting traditional outlets. Hard to run, even have, a country when people start to believe all institutions are corrupted by a cabal of sorts that somehow Trump and freedom loving Russia is immune from. We've seen the results here, of those shrieking how the US wants a war with Russia that only Trump and Putin are working to prevent. The new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is to realize that the system actually for all its flaws is pretty good compared to some other ones and throwing everyone out of office under a demagogue would be pretty lame-o for Western Civilization. Yes, conspiracy, corruption, war mongering exists, and should be reported, but people need to realize those telling you the truth may be just working to get you to live under another set of lies. Yes, it is hip to be square. Just the classic version, not American Psycho version.

so, the new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is just the regular plain old thinking, then, and it's better to live under a CIA/Nazi soft dictatorship with fake elections and outstretched failing empire than it is to live under... something else. got it, great.

[brekin]

I'm all for watching multiple outlets, I encourage it, even Rasputin Today, but what is happening is citizens are going to RT, and similar ilk, as a primary source, and discounting traditional outlets. Hard to run, even have, a country when people start to believe all institutions are corrupted by a cabal of sorts that somehow Trump and freedom loving Russia is immune from. We've seen the results here, of those shrieking how the US wants a war with Russia that only Trump and Putin are working to prevent. The new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is to realize that the system actually for all its flaws is pretty good compared to some other ones and throwing everyone out of office under a demagogue would be pretty lame-o for Western Civilization. Yes, conspiracy, corruption, war mongering exists, and should be reported, but people need to realize those telling you the truth may be just working to get you to live under another set of lies. Yes, it is hip to be square. Just the classic version, not American Psycho version.

so, the new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is just the regular plain old thinking, then, and it's better to live under a CIA/Nazi soft dictatorship with fake elections and outstretched failing empire than it is to live under... something else. got it, great.

I see number 1 student starts to lose his way when he has to articulate this... "something else" he's so eager to live under. You think RT will deliver you from a total security state with fake elections in a outstretched failing empire? Because they got their harder and faster first maybe?
You think this bad? You think this is the evil empire. I have to quote Sergei:
"This is nothing."

[Phil]

Are people really saying that there were no media that disenfranchised possible voters from Hilary?

What do you mean by the usage of disenfranchised.

Of course media are the primary influence on all elections. (It requires a properly dumbed down people but patriotism and education have already provided for that in most countries.) Corporate media made Trump more than any other factor, no argument. The U.S.-based corporate media, you understand. They also anointed Clinton as the winner two years in advance. In this shitshow, there were various other players, including RT. It's not that different with the spying -- these countries devote enormous budgets to it, as you know, to spy on each other. Electronically, mostly. When Russian spying on U.S. is suddenly presented as something exceptional and not reciprocal, in the context of talk about cyberwarfare and retaliation on the way, you've surely got to see the dangers.

Surely you understand in the current atmosphere with demands that social media censor "fake news" (if so designated by snopes and WaPo) then when CIA is citing reporting on OWS as evidence of Russian manipulation of election this is a chilling effect!

Remember how Hilary = Wall Street?

And now, as we see, and as comes to no surprise except the Trump patsies, Trump=Wall Street. Golly gee.

That they are preferring to get their news now from the Kremlin shows they are getting dumber.

What are RT's ratings? The statement is even more absurd than the idea that the availability of the Podesta and DNC e-mails swung the election.

What would be wrong with watching multiple outlets including RT?

.

Jack, you have to skim the report, the number of RT watched videos on YouTube is insane compared to traditional sorts of media outlets. I'm all for watching multiple outlets, I encourage it, even Rasputin Today, but what is happening is citizens are going to RT, and similar ilk, as a primary source, and discounting traditional outlets. Hard to run, even have, a country when people start to believe all institutions are corrupted by a cabal of sorts that somehow Trump and freedom loving Russia is immune from. We've seen the results here, of those shrieking how the US wants a war with Russia that only Trump and Putin are working to prevent. The new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is to realize that the system actually for all its flaws is pretty good compared to some other ones and throwing everyone out of office under a demagogue would be pretty lame-o for Western Civilization. Yes, conspiracy, corruption, war mongering exists, and should be reported, but people need to realize those telling you the truth may be just working to get you to live under another set of lies. Yes, it is hip to be square. Just the classic version, not American Psycho version.

What's wrong with discounting the traditional outlets?

[liminalOyster]

Jack, you have to skim the report, the number of RT watched videos on YouTube is insane compared to traditional sorts of media outlets. I'm all for watching multiple outlets, I encourage it, even Rasputin Today, but what is happening is citizens are going to RT, and similar ilk, as a primary source, and discounting traditional outlets. Hard to run, even have, a country when people start to believe all institutions are corrupted by a cabal of sorts that somehow Trump and freedom loving Russia is immune from. We've seen the results here, of those shrieking how the US wants a war with Russia that only Trump and Putin are working to prevent. The new fringe rigorous intuition thinking is to realize that the system actually for all its flaws is pretty good compared to some other ones and throwing everyone out of office under a demagogue would be pretty lame-o for Western Civilization. Yes, conspiracy, corruption, war mongering exists, and should be reported, but people need to realize those telling you the truth may be just working to get you to live under another set of lies. Yes, it is hip to be square. Just the classic version, not American Psycho version.

Richard Wolff, Thomas Frank, Dick Gregory, Ray McGovern, Guy McPherson, Cornel West, Jeremy Scahill, Chris Hedges, Naomi Klein and many more reputable dissidents have all appeared on Thom Hartmann's Conversations With Great Minds.

Not to say this necessarily undermines your thesis, but specifically how do you understand it or account for it? And if the problem with RT is that people treat it as a "primary source" and eschew traditional outlets, what are those latter outlets? The NYT? The Guardian?

Also, this:



and, this:



It's entirely possible Martin's Putin-criticism event could be a controlled opposition stunt to tamper the RT=propaganda smear but I'm not really convinced either way.

Also, on an entirely separate note, this:





Photo 1 is two members of Pussy Riot hanging out with a beaming HRC.
Photo 2 is two members of Pussy Riot playing themselves on House of Cards, at a white house dinner with a fictionalized Putin.

On edit: There really could be a "Pussy Riot as RI Subject" thread. I am too unreliable to start it but I'd be very curious what there is to uncover. From the very beginning there was something about them as a phenomenon that bothered me, and then exacerbated by their appearance with HRC (what the fuck are anarcho-feminists doing at a gala with a bunch of neo-cons?), their highly suggestive star-turn on House of Cards and members of Voina, the performance collective that Nadya was previously associated with, criticizing them. Something stinks ever so slightly, at least.

[brekin]

Kind of surprised I need to explain this. Yes, everyone knows if you really want to understand your country you have to read foreign newspapers and textbooks.
And the "truth", in general, is good irregardless of where it comes from.
But do people really believe that RT and those who are duped to appear on it are going to further anything but Russia's agenda at the expense of the US?
It's like how Soviet Russia use to highlight the racial and labor inequalities and strife's in the US, which were true, but at the same time they were purging millions in work camps.
This is going on now where all these truths that RT so gleefully reports about the US leads to one big lie where the US is more corrupt than everyone else and needs to be radically changed.
When the fact is journalists in Russia doing the same type of coverage of Russian affairs would be killed.
Of course, that may be another Russian import of their brand of journalism that will take root here now to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_j ... _in_Russia
'To be a journalist in Russia is suicide'
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/ ... ss-freedom

[tapitsbo]

Eh? Russia is full of journalists, including US-backed ones, who push a message very hostile to the government and mainstream society there. Russia even has political parties that are undisguised US proxies! These people obviously face pressures but they operate out in the open, just like RT does in the US.

Al-Jazeera or News Corporation could easily be seen as "subversive foreign propaganda".

And we all know that lots of topics can get you killed if you investigate them too zealously in the West.

Sure Russia is a violent, imperfect place. Some of the current issues there clearly date back to the 90's when the government was a vassal of the US.

Russia and Russian political messaging wouldn't be so appealing to so many people, or such an irritation to the Western establishment, if it weren't for the atrocious failed policies our governments have pursued in the last decade or so.

One of RT's founders was murdered in the US himself. Okay, he wasn't a journalist - but there are lots of apparently political murders to go around everywhere.

[seemslikeadream]

yea a lot of good that did in 2011

[brekin]

Eh? Russia is full of journalists, including US-backed ones, who push a message very hostile to the government and mainstream society there. Russia even has political parties that are undisguised US proxies! These people obviously face pressures but they operate out in the open, just like RT does in the US.
Al-Jazeera or News Corporation could easily be seen as "subversive foreign propaganda".
And we all know that lots of topics can get you killed if you investigate them too zealously in the West.
Sure Russia is a violent, imperfect place. Some of the current issues there clearly date back to the 90's when the government was a vassal of the US.
Russia and Russian political messaging wouldn't be so appealing to so many people, or such an irritation to the Western establishment, if it weren't for the atrocious failed policies our governments have pursued in the last decade or so.
One of RT's founders was murdered in the US himself. Okay, he wasn't a journalist - but there are lots of apparently political murders to go around everywhere.

Yes, in the 90's there was a chance for the US to help Russia and prevent the increasingly tragic turn it has taken, and the US bears some, even a lot, responsibility for that and even fostering the conditions by being capitalist raiders. But Russia isn't a child, and they screwed themselves over and let their own greedy, corrupt ridden system go full on criminal. Russia is only appealing to those who don't understand it. Talk about failed policies. Their whole system failed. And their current system is a patchwork of propping up and then turning back on policies.

And the RT founder who was murdered in the US was most likely murdered by Putin. He was under criminal investigation and was most likely about to cut a deal with the FBI so he could remain in the US and maintain his wealthy US lifestyle. That is when he was whacked. He could have easily skipped off to Russia, which would have never extradited him. Him being a Putin insider, presidential aide, RT propaganda architect, there was no way Russia was going to let him live with that info. I mean read the RT story and how "whacky" it is and the pat propaganda ending of what you should believe, and the Trump/Putin smear against "the media".

‘Blunt injuries’ killed Russian media tycoon Lesin in Washington, DC – forensic data
https://www.rt.com/news/335181-russian- ... ashington/

Four months after the death of former Russian press minister and prominent media figure Mikhail Lesin in a DC hotel, Washington’s chief medical examiner has revealed forensic data indicating that Lesin died of injuries to the head.While initial reports following Lesin’s death in DC’s Dupont Hotel on November 5, 2015 indicated that a heart attack had been to blame, no conclusive official forensic data has been released until now.

A joint statement by the District of Colombia’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) and Metropolitan Police Department said that the former minister’s death had been a violent one, as cited by RIA Novosti on Thursday.
“The Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) has released the cause and manner of death for Mikhail Lesin...Cause of Death: blunt force injuries of the head,” the statement said.
It added that “blunt force injuries of the neck, torso, upper extremities and lower extremities” contributed to the 57-year-old’s death.
Nevertheless, the manner of death was still classified as “undetermined” in the official release.

Lesin’s death is being actively investigated, OCME spokeswoman LaShon Beamon has said.
Meanwhile, Moscow said it is now expecting Washington to explain why Russia has not received any details from the probe into Lesin’s death, despite repeated requests.
“We are awaiting the related clarifications from Washington and the official data on the progress of the investigation,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova wrote in a Facebook post. She added that if the media reports citing the forensic statement are confirmed, Russia will send an official request to the US “for international legal assistance.”

“The Russian Embassy to the United States has repeatedly sent through diplomatic channels inquiries about the progress of investigation into the death of Russia's citizen. The US side has not provided to us any substantive information,” Zakharova said.Lesin was found dead in his hotel suite. It had been reported earlier that the police arriving at the scene had found no signs pointing to an unnatural cause of death.

Lesin was considered one of the most influential figures in the Russian media landscape and is best known for serving as the press minister from 1999-2004 under President Vladimir Putin. He became a presidential media adviser in 2004 and oversaw questions relating to the development of media and information technologies until he left the post in 2009. Lesin is credited with the idea of establishing RT as an English-language television network to convey Russian positions to the international audience.

“It’s been a long time since I was scared by the word propaganda. We need to promote Russia internationally. Otherwise, we’d just look like roaring bears on the prowl,” he said back in 2007. In 2013, Lesin was appointed head of Gazprom-Media, Russia’s largest media holding, remaining its chief until January of 2015.
Conspiracies arise

Several Western media reports speculating on the cause of Lesin’s death, including one by the DailyMail tabloid, immediately surfaced. Some of the wildest claims have compared Lesin’s death to that of the former FSB officer Aleksandr Litvinenko, who the West believes was murdered by radioactive polonium poisoning on direct orders from the Kremlin. Lesin is also claimed to have been under constant FBI scrutiny over his assets in Los Angeles.

William Jones, the Washington Bureau Chief for the Executive Intelligence Review, told RT that the Western media would inevitably exploit the former Russian minister’s death to try and implicate Russian President Vladimir Putin’s government, which he believes is a “false lead.”
Jones reasoned that Lesin was “a high-flier… had a lot of business interests,he was dealing with the oligarchs,” and various parties might have been “going after him.”
However, “the media, of course, is going out after the Russian government, going after Vladimir Putin. This is their favorite target, this is the obvious thing that they would do and this is probably a false lead in terms of what actually happened to Mr. Lesin,” Jones said.

[tapitsbo]

Many people would say it's the US, rather, that's taken a tragic turn since GWB. A contentious topic indeed.