Huge explosion in Oslo

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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby StarmanSkye » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:47 pm

If ever a good case for waterboarding could be made then this shooting by Breivik should certainly qualify. He has essentially bragged that he has priveleged insider intel about extremist cells disposed as he was to use violence for political ends. So this is not even a hypothetical what-if case, but something the news media has reported he said. Now it may be false, Breivik may just have been making veiled threat-boasts to increase his imagined stature, but isn't the threat real and urgent enough to qualify for all the necessary pro-active defense-exemptions the US 'Justice' Dept. urged under Bush and which Obama tacitly approved by accomodating it and waiving torture prosecutions? If Breivik were Muslim/Arab, I have no doubt the demands for him to be waterboarded under harsh interrogation would be heard from every rightwing warhawk and talking-head pundit and intel analyst who ever carried water for the neocons or otherwise faithfully served the corporate-military-security state.

I'd probably be in favor of an extra speedy trial and execution in the case of mass-murderers like Breivik -- at least once all his intel had been exhausted. Considering that many scores of Muslim suspects (many or most not even charged with anything) have been killed due to harsh, inhumane interrogations, giving Breivik a pass seems an inexplicable hypocrisy that underscores the rascist bias of America's policy on torture, er, enhanced interrogation.

Ah, but that's hardly a surprise. Undoubtedly Norway's civilized norms would have been a prime reason why, if it WAS, it would have been the target of a covert Fascist psyop attack in the first place.

Just another reason why my RI hackles have been raised. It fits the whole post-911 scenario of an orchesrtated strategy of tension, psychological battle for the hearts and minds
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:50 pm

Nordic wrote:
lupercal wrote:700 cell phones and no pics or vids of Breivik in action, official or otherwise? Doesn't that seem odd?


Are you out of your fucking mind? You think these kids were at Disneyland? You think they're gonna even THINK about taking a fucking PHOTO of a guy who's trying to GUN THEM DOWN?

You're insane.



I agree(not with the insane part) This fixation on what the kids and cops did or didnt do makes no sense to me. Maybe Im not "RI" enough...but this guy was literally out to kill each and every single person on that island, even those trying to swim away. What nano second of time would kids feel they had to be taking snapshots?
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:54 pm

StarmanSkye wrote:
Just another reason why my RI hackles have been raised. It fits the whole post-911 scenario of an orchesrtated strategy of tension, psychological battle for the hearts and minds


I agree, and I may be inclined to support the death penalty here, but I never could support "harsh interrogation". People should see the new Samuel L Jackson film "Unthinkable" to see just how sickeningly far the CIA goes in their methods
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby justdrew » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:55 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:Justdrew do you mean this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9CAIrm8ekw cos yeah lets analyse that clip


nope that is clearly AFTER the police force arrived on the island or their actual arrival. but I'd guess it's videoed from the same copter as what I'm talking about.

what is the linger time of a newscopter and where was that operating out of? I guess they'd have had the fuel for a couple hours... and you know, he never shot at the newscopter, for obvious propaganda reasons. I'm actually assuming it was a newscopter (but what else could it have been).

That pilot though, he should have tried to hit the shooter with the blades.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:58 pm

So ok, what clip are you talking about then, can you give a link please?
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby lupercal » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:59 pm

justdrew wrote:
lupercal wrote:^ well, there's this from last page:

Image

Call me crazy.


crazy.

you spend a lot of time at "theconservativetreehouse" ? It's sad that people feel a need to take cutout glamorshots and fake them over something like this.

Google image search. The only actual photos I can find are from the afore-mentioned video and are simply not clear enough, by design I suspect, to make any kind of identification, for example:

Image
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby RobinDaHood » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:00 pm

lupercal wrote:^ From among 700 gifted, technologically aware teenagers, yes, I'd expect a good portion to have a) immediately recognized the importance and value of photography, b) been in a position to snap without detection (cell phones can be muted), and c) been clear-headed enough to use the hour and a half they had to wait wisely and send out photos and video while they were waiting.

In fact I'd expect the internet to be flooded with such images, but I have yet to see one.

In a thread full of unrealistic expectations taking the place measured reason, this is by far the most absurd statement yet. What is immediately recognized as the most important thing is NOT GETTING SHOT. If one of those kids was actually in a position to avoid detection, I'm glad they had the sense to not blow that by sticking a camera up. Maybe they could have asked him to pose since he was so fond of the glamor shots. :wallhead:
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Well RobinDaHood, not to pat myself on the back, but I actually asked the exact same question a couple of pages ago. I think it;s a legitimate question. There's an island with 700 teenagers and 1 killer. Noone is saying take a picture when the guy is standing in front of you, but no pictures at all being tweeted or whatever is kinda curious. People were texting and doing facebook updates. How is that so different? But like Mac said, maybe they have yet to surface.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Nordic » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:15 pm

StarmanSkye wrote:If ever a good case for waterboarding could be made then this shooting by Breivik should certainly qualify.



Why would you think waterboarding, or any other forms of torture, actually get you truthful information?

We know that they don't.

Maybe you've been watching too much "24", which was pure propaganda.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby lupercal » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:18 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:Well RobinDaHood, not to pat myself on the back, but I actually asked the exact same question a couple of pages ago. I think it;s a legitimate question. There's an island with 700 teenagers and 1 killer. Noone is saying take a picture when the guy is standing in front of you, but no pictures at all being tweeted or whatever is kinda curious. People were texting and doing facebook updates. How is that so different? But like Mac said, maybe they have yet to surface.

Welcome to club crazy. They've had six days to surface and if they haven't by now, they won't, or we'll eventually get a predictable drip of doctored and blurry police shots. I also suspect cameras and cell phones were immediately confiscated from survivors "to help with the investigation" or some other malarkey.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:21 pm

oh ffs
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:27 pm

Here's a survivor raport:

Emma Martinovic, 18, an activist from Norway's youth labour movement, survived Friday's massacre on the island of Utøya. Many of her friends were not so lucky. In this extract from her blog she describes how she made her daring escape by swimming to safety, dodging Anders Behring Breivik's bullets with every stroke

We hid on a rocky slope, or at least tried to. The bastard with the gun would actually have been able to come from any side and discover us, we couldn't see anything from our vantage point.

Minutes felt like hours. Then text messages started to tick in: "Where are you?" "Are you hidden?" "I love you so much," and other similar messages.

Then came the text from my friend Pernille: "He's by the school building, he's shooting through the door. We are a group of 30 who are trying to hide. Are you safe?" I replied as concisely as I could: "What does he look like? Is there more than one? Has he got into the building? We are hidden, but not safe."

Finally came her description. He was in a police uniform and had a weapon. There were some reports of there being two gunmen. Then came a message that he was heading our way. I put my hands together and talked to God, at the same time trying to keep the others calm. Then I decided to send AUF's [Arbeidernes Ungdomsfylking, Norway's youth labour movement] leader a text, and he replied that he was safe. I asked him: "What should we do? There are four of us clinging to a rockface." His reply was short and to the point: "Swim." I got hold of the other three and told them to get ready to swim.

I wanted to assure myself that the coast was clear so I first went down to the water's edge. But there I saw a body face down in the water. I waded out, all the while looking skywards and praying. I dragged the boy's body back to land and when I pulled back his jacket hood I saw it was a friend of mine, and I saw the wound to his head. There was no time to react. I kissed him on the cheek and returned to my rockface.

Then I spotted other delegates trying to hide by the water's edge, and waded over to them. I told them that I had talked to the AUF leader and that his advice was that we swim away. I suggested to the girls that they stick some ID down their bras, or some other item that might identify them. I outlined for them a plan: we swim out as far as possible, beyond the rifle sight of the bastard, and out to the right towards an adjacent island.

Everyone started to undress, they all knew how much a hindrance wet clothing is. Before wading in I sent a last text to my mum, dad, younger brother, and best friend Robin. With one other I led the way, checking over my shoulder that the others were following. It was cold, I felt the chill in my bones, but focused on keeping my head above water. Behind me some of the others were starting to panic, so I shouted to them: "Keep your head above water, get away from land. Breathe!"

Then I turned on to my back and looked back at the island and caught sight of the bastard. He was standing there in a police uniform, he had blond hair, fair skin, a police cap on his head, and I saw his weapon. It looked as if he was aiming at us. Poff! One of the other swimmers was shot, I saw the blood stream out, so I started to swim even faster. Then I turned on my back again and saw he was aiming at those who still hadn't started swimming from land yet. As if he had realised he couldn't hit us out in the fjord, he was concentrating on taking out those on the rocks below him.

I saw one of my friends about to leap into the water, but in a second he was shot. Even at a distance I could see and hear the two shots, straight to the head. I saw his head explode, I saw how he was split apart. Panic spread like wildfire among those on land. I wanted to be among them, urging them to get away, by land or water. I even yelled: "Swim or run!", but nothing helped, there was so much other noise – both the helicopter above us and the bastard's rifle.

When I turned on to my front again I felt the panic seize me. I felt my eyes wanting to close, I felt the water slowly getting into me, filling me up. I felt my head wanted to turn and look back, I felt the pain. The panic spread to my breathing, I was gasping for air. Suddenly someone behind me shouts. "Emma, I can't go on."

It was one of my girlfriends. I gritted my teeth and swam back to her, then told her to keep the rhythm: Breath for you and breath for me. We'll soon be safe and warm, you'll see. I let her climb up on to my shoulders and keep swimming with her legs; together we managed to keep going. I breathed steadily. In my own mind I was keeping a rhythmic stroke: "One for mum, one for dad, one for my brother, one for Robin. All are waiting there on land." All the while I talked to the girl on my back.

Suddenly she said: "Emma, you're bleeding", and when I looked down at my left arm, there was blood pouring from it. I tried to shut it out, focus on swimming, but I knew full well why my left arm was aching so much, but I didn't want to stop. Behind us we could still hear shooting, the screams, the laughter of the bastard as he shot, and his shout to us: "You won't get away!"

Then my friend said she felt she was able to swim on her own. She swam beside me, breathing regularly anddoing really well. It felt as if all this took several hours, but I know it was really only minutes.

A young boy came swimming up to me. I looked at him and said: "For someone so young you're a strong swimmer." He looked at me and replied: "My daddy is dead." I said to him: "Don't look back, just keep swimming for your dad. You're doing really great." To this he answered: "I thought the police were supposed to be kind to us."

Emma Martinovic The anger that swelled up in me gave me extra motivation. We three kept swimming side by side. When I turned on my back to see what was happening I discovered that there were far fewer in our wake: the bastard was still shooting at us. I said: "Don't look back, keep swimming". And as I said that I heard and saw a boat and we all swam faster, shouting: "Thank you God, thank you."

I waved, I shouted: "Help! Over here!" I said to my friend and the little boy that I would swim to the boat first, in case it was some sort of trick the bastard had planned. We had lost faith in everyone. I looked up at the man who lifted me into his boat. "You're safe now," he said. He gave me a good hug and asked if there were others. We motored out to my friend and the boy and I said: "Come on, it's safe."

Before I finish I want to say that I am not going to leave politics. The bastard will not stop us, we won't give in. I have so many questions, I would like one day to meet him again, without a weapon. Why? What was he thinking? All these questions which will never be answered. Just think of it, he dressed himself in a police uniform, the symbol of safety and support. He abused our trust in the police.

Translation by Andrew Boyle


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... a-massacre

The Guardian translated that from her blog which she started the 24th of july btw. I'm sorry to say that i find the whole story unbelievable and coming across as scripted.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Nordic » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:31 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote: I'm sorry to say that i find the whole story unbelievable and coming across as scripted.


She might just tell you to go fuck yourself.

Earlier in this very thread was the SAME account, with what must have been a different translation, which was quite compelling and moving, and MIGHT actually pass your strict muster.

Sheesh.

This place is starting to really get on my nerves.

This girl survives what she did, and you don't like the translation, so you pooh-pooh her whole experience?

Is everybody SO prejudiced here that they refuse to keep open minds and instead jump to conclusions? That's not what I thought this place was about.

Open minds. Bring in all the facts, all the evidence, all the accounts, then try to figure stuff out. While always keeping an open mind.

If you're not keeping an open mind, why not just go hang out at prisonplanet or someplace like that? Why are you here?
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:32 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:oh ffs


It was orchestrated by the CIA - didn't you get the memo? Y'know the same CIA that are in the bible (yeah yeah I know it says "And the Lord said let there be light" but we all know what it really means) :thumbsup And any lack of photography is down to to rank cowardice I'm sure - but then what else can you expect from these filthy socialists?
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:38 pm

It's the same translation, sorry for the double post. I mainly posted it to show that there was a lot of texting going on.
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