Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:45 pm

Wrote the below -- bad idea, big waste of time on people who aren't interested in knowing -- but then got the identity cross-post. Basically you can all screw off with your 9/11 disease fantasies. This has been very well tracked over the years and you are showing complete ignorance or indifference to the actual, horrific impact on the thousands caught up in the cloud and those who worked on the pile in 2001-2. You are exploiting those victims to suggest that somehow it now magically expresses itself in 20,000 additional deaths, within a short period 20 years later, which merely happen to mimic exactly the action of a contagion. You don't bother to know anything about it, it's pathetic. All so you can suggest the current contagion somehow isn't actually happening. And, in effect, you are covering for a government that actually IS lying about many aspects of the unfolding shitshow by implying it's lying about something else, a secret to which you are the only ones privy via your personal selection of youtube videos that speak to your longstanding obsessions. Who are you people?

undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:12 pm wrote:I would guess environmental factors - air pollution, electromagnetic fields of various kinds that exhaust the adrenal glands, all that asbestos from 9/11 that is still around being cleaned up by remediation companies, processed food, transgenic food, even organic food contains environmental pollutants, social stress, work stress, fear. There are so many factors that get swept under the rug as insignificant, but when they are added up they are very significant. It could also be an affliction of affluence that having more access to pharmaceutical medicine throughout life also means racking up more cumulative negative side effects.


This can't be serious. First of all, New York City has a longer life-expectancy, healthier people and better health care than most places in this crazy country. It's just more crowded, and gives you an accelerated snapshot of what's coming elsewhere. Who's been hit the hardest? The poor, the working poor, and people of color, as usual.

Second, of course this damn thing is all over the planet.

So you make a list of all your real and imagined "environmental factors" (plenty of serious ones), several incredibly general and vague, things that have been omnipresent for decades. No causality necessary, just list'em, some combo must be involved, right? It seems they decided to converge suddenly so that, within a few weeks, they killed 20,000 people above the March-April baseline in New York, and it happened to look exactly like the effect of a contagion, coincidentally at the same time that the C19 contagion arrived.

Which you realize you still require to explain any of this, so then you go ahead and attribute it to C19 anyway, except it mutates a lot, especially in New York. Which you determined from samples in your lab. Or in some youtube video. Golly.

Meanwhile, there's no secret about the actual comorbidities that go together with C19 deaths. They are one of the best-established facts in this horror. Yet your laundry list of Gary Null Show concerns (again, plenty of them serious and shared by me) manages to omit listing any of the direct C19 comorbidities.

The top five, present in as many as 99% of the deaths depending on region, are age -- also age, age, and age -- obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and kidney disease. The latter four are related to some of your factors, of course.

And what's the point to any of this? What's your big message?

.

Interestingly, neither smoking nor other preexisting lung conditions seem to be major factors!

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby liminalOyster » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:22 pm

JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:44 am wrote:
liminalOyster » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:00 am wrote:Jack is this compatible with the CA antibody data from earlier this week?

Doesn't .1 put us in swine flu territory?


I FUCKED UP the math - horribly.

17,000/1,700,000 = 1 percent

corrected post - yes it was late night but still! Sorry!

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... 31#p686531


I'm pathetic. My entire demeanor (aka good mood) has been sort of floating on this as accepted surprising good news. Heh. Heh.
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
User avatar
liminalOyster
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby liminalOyster » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:30 pm

The smoking (nicotine) shit is fascinating though, bad armchair epidemiologist though I am, I still find it not totally surprising. Nicotine is a great drug for so many other things (delivery systems aside) that this one makes some sense to me intuitively.

Lots of mediocre stories floating around about it today (see below) but this is pretty legit stuff.

Here's the abstract of what I found on quick skim now (though I read quite a bit bout it late last night during a bout of insomnia.)

A nicotinic hypothesis for Covid-19 with preventive and therapeutic implications
jean-pierre CHANGEUX, Zahir Amoura1, Felix Rey2, Makoto Miyara1

Abstract
SARS-CoV-2 epidemics raises a considerable issue of public health at the planetary scale. There is a pressing urgency to find treatments based upon currently available scientific knowledge. Therefore, we tentatively propose a hypothesis which hopefully might ultimately help saving lives. Based on the current scientific literature and on new epidemiological data which reveal that current smoking status appears to be a protective factor against the infection by SARS-CoV-2 [1], we hypothesize that the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) plays a key role in the pathophysiology of Covid-19 infection and might represent a target for the prevention and control of Covid-19 infection.

https://www.qeios.com/read/article/581


eg of how this is being translated in the msm:

Smokers 'four times less likely' to contract Covid-19, prompting nicotine patch trials on patients
Researchers in France will test nicotine patches on health workers and patients but reiterated smoking could also cause more severe illness
By Henry Samuel
23 April 2020 • 5:04pm

Frontline health workers and patients in France may be given nicotine patches after studies found that four times fewer smokers contracted Covid-19 than non-smokers.

It may sound counterintuitive that people who puff on Gauloises are less likely to catch a virus that can cause deadly attacks on the lungs. However, that was the statistical outcome of an in-depth study conducted by the Pasteur Institute, a leading French research centre into the disease.

The institute tested almost 700 teachers and pupils of a school in Crépy-en-Valois in one of the hardest-hit areas in France, as well as their families. The “highly accurate” tests found that only 7.2 per cent of smokers from among the adults tested were infected while four times as many non-smokers, some 28 per cent, were infected.

Arnaud Fontanet, an epidemiologist at the institute, warned that they were not encouraging people to take up smoking, remarking that those smokers who do catch the virus “risk suffering more complications” than others. Scientists suggested it could be the nicotine in cigarettes that was behind the surprising results regarding infection, although more research is needed.

A study from China prompted Public Health England and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States to put smoking on the list of 'risk factors' for coronavirus earlier in the crisis.

Public Health England said: "Smoking tobacco is known to damage the lungs and airways causing a range of severe respiratory problems. The evidence clearly shows Covid-19 virus attacks the respiratory system, which explains why smokers are at greater risk. A small but highly impactful survey from China finds that smokers with Covid-19 are 14 times more likely to develop severe disease."

Cigarette butts in an ashtray
Smoking kills 75,000 people every year in France, which has suffered 21,000 deaths from the coronavirus CREDIT: Jenny Kane/AP
However, the Pasteur Institute results appear to tally with another study by the Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital in Paris, which questioned 480 patients who tested positive for the virus.

According to their findings, among the 350 patients hospitalised, whose median age was 65, only 4.4 per cent were regular smokers. Among those released home, with a median age of 44, 5.3 per cent smoked.

The French health authority Santé Publique France puts the number of smokers in the general population at 32 per cent of people between 18 to 75 years old.

“Compared to the French general population, the Covid-19 population exhibited a significantly weaker current daily smoker rate by 80.3 per cent for outpatients and by 75.4 per cent for inpatients,” the researchers wrote in their study.

“Thus, current smoking status appears to be a protective factor against the infection by SARS-CoV-2.”

The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack. It may also lessen the overreaction of the body’s immune system that has been found in the most severe cases of Covid-19 infection.


Clinical trials of nicotine patches on health workers and patients are awaiting the approval of the country’s health authorities.

Health minister Olivier Véran called the study "interesting", adding: "We will not be shutting any doors and certainly not that one."

Smoking causes 75,000 deaths in France and researchers were at pains to point out that nobody should take up the habit as a preventative measure.

“One should not forget that nicotine is a drug of abuse responsible for smoking addiction," they wrote.

“Smoking has severe pathological consequences and remains a serious danger for health. Yet under controlled settings, nicotinic agents could provide an efficient treatment for an acute infection such as Covid-19,” they concluded.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -nicotine/
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
User avatar
liminalOyster
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:26 pm

JackRiddler wrote:And what's the point to any of this? What's your big message?
.


To clarify, I did not mean to agree with whatever video was referenced. I know that the virus is serious. What I am interested in is why 50% of people show no symptoms. Environmental factors matter, diet matters. Environmental factors and diet in hospitals are a whole other issue that is also significant. Last year there was a dramatic outbreak of the drug resistant fungal pathogen Candida auris in the tri state area, for example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/23/health/candida-auris-hospitals-ny.html
[...]While C. auris is not the first drug-resistant germ to take hold, it is so dangerous and easily spread that it is putting new kinds of pressures on the health care system. One hallmark of C. auris is that it can be very difficult to clean from equipment or clothing, and it may spread through the air. Officials suspect that the spores can be shaken loose from bedding and they have been known to cling to walls and ceiling tiles.[...]


This fungal superbug has been blamed on climate change in the last year, but considering that it only exists in hospitals, that makes very little sense. It is much more likely that it is being spread around on medical equipment. This has been spreading very quickly for the last year, so considering all the chaos and the inability to do autopsies on COVID19 fatalities, it seems reasonable that there will be many Candida auris infections that will go unnoticed. Especially with all the haphazard production and shipping of medical equipment like respirators. This superbug is just one example. Hospitals are infested with many different pathogens that are produced by the dysfunctional pharmaceutical approach to medicine. Scientists and doctors have been warning for years that drug resistant pathogens are going to put hospitals in a situation that resembles the period before the advent of antibiotics. The over-prescription of antibiotics and the lack of any effective probiotic mitigation of this has always been a colossal liability issue for the medical system and pharmaceutical companies, so this virus is a very convenient scapegoat for that.

Of course the virus is real, but when half of the cases show no symptoms at all, and the majority of hospitalizations have underlying conditions, there is clearly something other than just the virus that is doing the killing.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:42 pm

https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/23/the-superbug-candida-auris-is-giving-rise-to-warnings-and-big-questions/

The superbug Candida auris is giving rise to warnings — and big questions

By Helen Branswell
July 23, 2019

What’s known about the fungus Candida auris confounds the scientists who study it, the doctors who struggle to treat the persistent infections it causes, and the infection control teams that endeavor to clear it from hospital rooms after infected patients leave.

But the list of what’s not known about this highly unusual fungus is longer still — and fascinating. Experts say there’s an urgent need for answers and for funding with which to generate them.

Candida auris was first spotted a decade ago in Japan, and more recently has been popping up in far-flung parts of the globe. The fungus doesn’t behave like a fungus. It causes outbreaks like a bacterium and is generally highly resistant to available antifungal drugs. It’s a growing problem, and a deeply concerning one.

Recently STAT asked a number of scientists to describe what they see as the most pressing research questions facing the field. Here are their thoughts:

Where does the darn thing come from?

Most fungi — and there are multitudes — are found in a variety of places. In soil, in insects, in plants. But the only place C. auris has been found to date is in people.

It has to be somewhere else in nature, said Tom Chiller, chief of mycotic ( i.e. fungal) diseases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“They didn’t just ‘poof!’ appear,” Chiller insisted. “They’ve been here for a while. And I wonder where they were hiding.”

Tejas Bouklas, an assistant professor in the department of biomedical sciences at Long Island University, Post, campus, would like to know what other species C. auris can infect.

Knowing where the fungus lives in nature and how people are picking it up might help to answer another very pressing question.

Why and how did different clones of the fungus pop up across the world in a very short time span?

A few years after its 2009 discovery, a number of countries around the globe started reporting C. auris cases. Initially the thinking was that travelers or medical tourists were responsible for the movement. But when the genetic sequences were compared, it was clear that was not the case.

Samples of C. auris circulating in South Africa all looked a lot alike. So did the samples from Asia and from South America. But none of them looked like each other. And they don’t always act like each other.

Chiller noted that the C. auris cases reported in Japan seemed to be mainly ear infections — the original finding of the fungus was from an ear infection, hence the “auris” of the name. In Japan, the fungus doesn’t seem to cause invasive disease; it doesn’t get into the bloodstream. But in South Korea, the same clone (think strain) of C. auris does.

“Wouldn’t it be fascinating to know what changes in that organism that make it go from external ear infection to an invader?” Chiller mused. “Is there something that changes in the genome? … I wish people would just jump on that and study it.”

Knowing the how and the why are crucial, said Dr. Luis Ostrosky, professor of infectious diseases at McGovern Medical School at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston.

That’s “the only way we’re going to control it. Because if we don’t know the source, we’re kind of fighting the fire a little bit at a time,” said Ostrosky, who is director of his hospital’s laboratory of mycology research. “If you don’t know the source of an infection, you’re never going to control it completely. And it’s going to keep happening.”

Why now?

The nearly simultaneous emergence on different continents of a highly drug resistant fungus that acts like a bacteria seems … well, kind of unsettling. What happened to allow this species of Candida to act in ways Candida fungi don’t normally act?

A related concern: If this fungal species learned this trick, can others? Is that what the future holds?

A just-published study in the journal mBio theorizes that climate change may have contributed in part to the emergence of C. auris. The authors say that historically the human body temperature has acted as protection against invasive fungal infections — in effect, we’re too hot for them to be able to grow well in us. But as the globe has warmed, they’ve adapted.

If the theory is correct, other fungi may follow C. auris’ path, posit Arturo Casadevall, of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, and his co-authors.

“Whether C. auris is the first example of new pathogenic fungi emerging from climate change … its emanation stokes worries that humanity may face new diseases from fungal adaptation to hotter climates,” they write.

Chiller said uncovering C. auris’ backstory is important. “These things are going to continue to emerge. And understanding how they emerge and where they emerge might lead us to prevention strategies or reactive strategies or preparation strategies for the next big thing.”

Could C. auris help other fungi adapt to be bigger threats to humans?

That’s a question Bouklas is wondering about. “The more ubiquitous it becomes, the more problematic. Because now it could potentially transmit DNA to other Candida species. And maybe even bacteria,” she said.

That idea is not far-fetched. Fungi can mate sexually, Chiller pointed out, allowing them to swap large amounts of DNA.

Where did it get its “Ironman suit”?

That’s the way Johanna Rhodes describes the drug-resistant superpowers of C. auris. Rhodes is an epidemiologist at Imperial College London who has worked on C. auris since a 2016 outbreak at London’s Royal Brompton Hospital.

Some of the patients in that outbreak developed resistance to an entire class of antifungal drugs within a month — “which is just unheard of,” she said.

Bouklas also has resistance questions. “Why does it have such a strong resistance to every known anti-fungal?” she asked. “All of them use a different mechanism of killing…. That’s the biggest question.”

Often pathogens that develop drug resistance pay for it in other ways — it’s called a “fitness cost.” Yes, Bacterium X can evade Drug Y, but in acquiring that skill it becomes less transmissible or weaker in some way.

Not C. auris.

“It seems that it’s got resistance at no fitness cost. It’s still able to form biofilms. It’s still able to persist [in an environment]. It’s still able to infect,” Rhodes said.

Biofilms are a layer of pathogens — in this case, fungi — that attach to a surface and effectively lay in wait there. Sometimes biofilms form in the drains or pipes leading from sinks in hospitals. Many like wet surfaces, but C. auris can form dry biofilms, lurking on surfaces like bed railings in a contaminated hospital room. These infectious residues can transmit C. auris from one patient to the next in a hospital room.

This fungus is really hard to get rid of. That’s something Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, thinks needs to be explored.

“Why is it so different from others that you could easily, by wiping it with whatever it is you wipe it with, it goes away? Whereas this just seems to stick there,” Fauci asked.

Ostrosky also wants to know why the fungus spreads so well in hospitals, which are not normally terribly hospitable to fungi.

What’s the best way to treat patients who develop C. auris infections?

That’s a question Ostrosky, who has treated patients with C. auris infections, would very much like answered.

Chiller has a related question: How often is C. auris causing death?

Between 30% and 60% of patients who develop C. auris infections die, the CDC estimates. But in the United States, anyway, C. auris infections occur in the sickest of patients: people whose immune systems have been compromised, who have spent prolonged periods on ventilators — machines that breathe for people whose lungs aren’t up to the task.

Are these people dying from their C. auris infections? Or are their other medical problems the cause of death? “Are they dying of C. auris or with C. auris? I still want to know that,” said Chiller, though he acknowledged that “those are really hard studies to do.”
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:02 pm

So I guess the big idea would be - the pharmaceutical based medical system was on the verge of collapse, and when the boomer generation started going into end of life care, everyone with boomer parents was going to see in graphic and horrific detail all of its failings and conflicts of interest. These were things that were ignored for the last 70 years or so and allowed to metastasize until hospitals and long term care facilities became disease infested death traps almost as bad as prisons. So when this conveniently visible problem came along, of course all the people responsible for the horrendously dangerous and unhealthy conditions in medical facilities are eager to blame everything on this one pathogen, even though it is obvious to many people that there is much more contributing to all of these deaths.

It is a lot like how 9/11 happened shortly after it became mandatory to remediate asbestos in New York City. The price of the WTC plummeted because of the new requirement, because who would want to pay to clean all the asbestos out of those giant buildings? They were basically worthless and recently recognized to be very dangerous. Larry Silverstein avoided a colossal cost of remediation when those buildings were turned to dust.

It's too bad that people can't have a nuanced conversation about it without getting self righteous and upset, jumping to conclusions and exaggerating, etc. Like the vaccination debate, which was also heating up a lot in the tristate area in the last year. Nobody wants to acknowledge that the entire industrial system is going down like the Titanic, and there are not enough life boats.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:10 pm

┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby identity » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:21 pm

JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:45 am wrote:Wrote the below -- bad idea, big waste of time on people who aren't interested in knowing -- but then got the identity cross-post. Basically you can all screw off with your 9/11 disease fantasies. This has been very well tracked over the years and you are showing complete ignorance or indifference to the actual, horrific impact on the thousands caught up in the cloud and those who worked on the pile in 2001-2. You are exploiting those victims to suggest that somehow it now magically expresses itself in 20,000 additional deaths, within a short period 20 years later, which merely happen to mimic exactly the action of a contagion. You don't bother to know anything about it, it's pathetic. All so you can suggest the current contagion somehow isn't actually happening. And, in effect, you are covering for a government that actually IS lying about many aspects of the unfolding shitshow by implying it's lying about something else, a secret to which you are the only ones privy via your personal selection of youtube videos that speak to your longstanding obsessions. Who are you people?


Someone is making a hell of a lot of assumptions.

Where do I argue that the blame for any excess deaths in NYC now rests squarely on the shoulders of 9/11's toxic clouds? I was merely speculating that the long-term consequences of breathing in those clouds could be a factor here. Do I assert that this is absolutely or even likely the case? No, not at all. Could my speculation be groundless? Certainly. Is it exploitative, a sin, or a crime to even entertain the notion? I hope not!

It was, frankly, the first thing that occurred to me that distinguishes NYC from other large urban areas in your country. Is the crowding there really that much worse than other big cities? I am no authority on this subject; perhaps you can enlighten me.

All so you can suggest the current contagion somehow isn't actually happening.

Did I claim anywhere to know what is actually happening or not happening? I think there's a difference between not necessarily believing anything about what's currently going down, and claiming to know that something isn't actually happening. Have we reached the point here where the former must of necessity be indicative of the latter?

And, in effect, you are covering for a government that actually IS lying about many aspects of the unfolding shitshow by implying it's lying about something else,

Covering for your lying government (is there any other kind?)? Well, if you say so. (FYI, I devote as close as possible to 0% of my waking attention to people in any way associated with, or defending, your – or my own – government. Life is too short.)

a secret to which you are the only ones privy via your personal selection of youtube videos that speak to your longstanding obsessions.

Maybe you would prefer that the heresies discussed in these personally selected talk shows be confined to a thread dedicated specifically to them, for the edification of those who share similar longstanding obsessions (there seem to be a few here) without offending the sensibilities of those who dare not venture so wildly astray from the straight, reasonable path? I have no problem with that.

I thought this place was open to points of view which diverted from official (both government and scientific)/mainstream/received ones. Perhaps I was mistaken?
We should never forget Galileo being put before the Inquisition.
It would be even worse if we allowed scientific orthodoxy to become the Inquisition.

Richard Smith, Editor in Chief of the British Medical Journal 1991-2004,
in a published letter to Nature
identity
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:00 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:23 pm

Regarding the two maps, there are some obvious answers. 1. Not very much, at all, there are some major differences. 2. They both clearly but not fully reflect population density, and would no doubt do so to a much more obvious degree if they were colored by county.

undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:02 pm wrote:So when this conveniently visible problem came along, of course all the people responsible for the horrendously dangerous and unhealthy conditions in medical facilities are eager to blame everything on this one pathogen, even though it is obvious to many people that there is much more contributing to all of these deaths.


Your statements show no interest in what contributes to these deaths. Much information on this has actually been shared. The comorbidities are well known and often discussed. These are most commonly: age over 80, obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and kidney disease. Each of the last four are to substantial degrees social illnesses, but not due to factors that interest you or that you dwell upon.

Your posts don't name these actual comorbidities, but rather repeat a grab-bag of genuine and less genuine public health problems that you also appear to know nothing about, most of which are unrelated to the current increase in deaths. There is no basis whatsoever, other than perhaps fantasy and wishful thinking, to claim 9/11 respiratory illnesses (another huge tragedy over the last 20 years that you can actually learn about, but that you do not appear to care about) are a major factor in the current increase in deaths in New York.

Of course you are going to run into people who are unfriendly in greeting your aggressive disregard for truth and stubborn, invulnerable, and repetitive use of misinformation or falsehoods, for which you are incapable of providing evidence or a basis. Much of it seems to be pulled out of your own hat. It's shameful, even when camouflaged in a cloak of civility. It's no surprise that you do not engage on the criticisms but merely affect offense at being called on your bad acting.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:38 pm

identity » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:21 pm wrote:Where do I argue that the blame for any excess deaths in NYC now rests squarely on the shoulders of 9/11's toxic clouds?


You've brought it up repeatedly as if it could be a major factor, which it could not. People actually filed claims under the Zadroga act, and there have been legal cases. You can at least bother to look up anything about this subject.

It was, frankly, the first thing that occurred to me that distinguishes NYC from other large urban areas in your country.


Okay.

Is the crowding there really that much worse than other big cities? I am no authority on this subject; perhaps you can enlighten me.


"Crowding" and "worse" indicate a mindset, but never mind.

Population density figures are easy to look up. Go for it.

I thought this place was open to points of view which diverted from official (both government and scientific)/mainstream/received ones. Perhaps I was mistaken?


Points of view that "divert from official/mainstream/etc." is pretty much all there is here, and you've been here for a while, so you know that.

Is that supposed to be a defense of your bullshit? Is your bullshit sacrosanct and not subject to challenge because you believe it diverts from official stories? Was any of your bullshit censored until now? Since it wasn't, why are you pretending that a critical treatment of your bullshit is some kind of dreadful imposition? Doesn't this kind of dodgy retreat from dealing honestly with criticism of your bullshit indicate you know your bullshit is bullshit and not defensible on the merits?

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:47 pm

JackRiddler wrote:Your statements show no interest in what contributes to these deaths. Much information on this has actually been shared. The comorbidities are well known and often discussed. These are most commonly: age over 80, obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and kidney disease. Each of the last four are to substantial degrees social illnesses, but not due to factors that interest you or that you dwell upon.


So by social illnesses, do you mean illnesses of social inequality? That doesn't relate to exposure to environmental pollution, or eating polluted food? Not being able to afford less polluted food? Never mind 9/11 respiratory illnesses, what about just air pollution? You don't think that contributes? I guess I shouldn't have gotten involved in this particular argument between you and someone else, I'm not really sure why you're so upset.

It seems like you must be some kind of medical professional, or maybe have one in the family, or know some, to take such intense offense to criticism of the medical system in general. This is like "support the troops" all over again. Like, "Why do you hate the troops so much?". I feel bad for the troops, it clearly sucks to be them. I know most of them signed up because they wanted to protect and help people, but in retrospect the machine they signed on to wasn't really designed to do that, was it?

By the way, my friends and family members are also getting sick and dying from this, and many of them live in New York City.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:55 pm

This board is an interesting place to find articles on political topics, current events, etc. but I can't imagine that getting upset about what people here say can be healthy for anyone. Why bother to get upset about what some random people on the internet say? That's pretty sad, it reminds me of why I haven't bothered to post here for like 10 years. I still would prefer real social interaction over this, but you know, social distancing.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:09 pm

https://www.cdc.gov/fungal/candida-auri ... qanda.html

Healthcare facilities in several countries have reported that a type of yeast called Candida auris has been causing severe illness in hospitalized patients. In some patients, this yeast can enter the bloodstream and spread throughout the body, causing serious invasive infections. This yeast often does not respond to commonly used antifungal drugs, making infections difficult to treat. Patients who have been hospitalized in a healthcare facility a long time, have a central venous catheter, or other lines or tubes entering their body, or have previously received antibiotics or antifungal medications, appear to be at highest risk of infection with this yeast.

Specialized laboratory methods are needed to accurately identify C. auris. Conventional laboratory techniques could lead to misidentification and inappropriate management, making it difficult to control the spread of C. auris in healthcare settings.

Because of these factors, CDC is alerting U.S. healthcare facilities to be on the lookout for C. auris in their patients.

[...]

Who is at risk for infection from C. auris?

People who have recently spent time in nursing homes and have lines and tubes that go into their body (such as breathing tubes, feeding tubes and central venous catheters), seem to be at highest risk for C. auris infection. Limited data suggest that the risk factors for Candida auris infections are generally similar to risk factors for other types of Candida infections. These risk factors include recent surgery, diabetes, broad-spectrum antibiotic and antifungal use. Infections have been found in patients of all ages, from preterm infants to the elderly. Further study is needed to learn more about risk factors for C. auris infection.


It seems like this pathogen is highly relevant to the public health emergency, given the need for respirators. It's too bad that nobody is paying attention to this. Doesn't it seem inevitable that this pathogen will also grow and become a more serious issue, in addition to the viral pandemic?

The viral pandemic that is no good, very bad, extra terrible, not to be minimized in any way... seriously, I don't hate the troops, I don't disbelieve in the viral pandemic at all. And yet if I criticize the medical system, then it means that I must want to virus to win.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:48 pm

8bitagent wrote:Been following the main Covid Reddit update page. People downplay it as "viruses mutate and become weaker", but from all the data I'm seeing with the Covid mutations, it seems really bizarre. Like a real life Freddy Krueger that presents wildly bizarre and different symptoms to different people, geographics, areas, etc. A biological trickster. Ultimately maybe it wont matter the "true "origins"...a Wuhan lab or wet market, meat tainted by bat contamination(the 2011 Contagion movie theory) or mother nature lashing out. This virus is acting like the Joker in 1989's Batman spreading toxins or 2008 Dark Knight causing random havoc to the entire system.


This description also fits Lyme disease perfectly. Lyme is called "the great imitator" by some because with the lack of accurate testing for it there are so many misdiagnoses of MS, rheumatoid arthiritis, psychiatric problems, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and the list goes on. B. burgdorferi interacts in the wild and exchanges genetic information to produce many new strains, and there are likely more than the recognized ones that have yet to be catalogued. Many people suspect that B. burgdorferi could be sexually transmitted in some situations since it is so similar to syphilis, but the lack of definitive testing makes it impossible to prove or even investigate. If it were recognized to be an STD, people would freak the fuck out. If it were somehow able to spread in the industrial infrastructure, instead of through ticks, we would see an industrial collapse very similar to the one going on now because of COVID19. With Lyme you often see very severe damage done in addition to the disease itself because the medical system is unprepared to treat it.

Lyme disease: COVID19 for people who spend a lot of time outdoors in the affected areas.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:07 pm

Antibiotic resistance: the hidden threat lurking behind Covid-19

By Julie L. Gerberding
March 23, 2020

Julie L. Gerberding, M.D., is chief patient officer and executive vice president for strategic communications, global public policy, and population health at Merck. She was director of the CDC from 2002 to 2009.

The ongoing Covid-19 pandemic highlights the critical need for rapid development of vaccines and antiviral treatments to reduce the number of hospitalizations and deaths caused by this dangerous new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2. The biopharmaceutical industry has quickly responded and at least 80 candidates are already in development. With good luck, we will eventually have some of the tools we need to fight this new global threat.

But there is an even larger threat lurking behind the current outbreak, one that is already killing hundreds of thousands of people around the world and that will complicate the care of many Covid-19 patients. It is the hidden threat from antibiotic resistance — bacteria that are not killed by standard antibiotics. Unfortunately, the pipeline of drugs to manage these deadly infections is nearly dry.

Although antibiotic resistance hasn’t gotten our attention in the same way that SARS-CoV-2 has, antibiotic-resistant bacteria present a growing global menace. In the U.S. alone, we see 2.8 million antibiotic-resistant infections each year and more than 35,000 deaths, though experts fear that the real number is much higher. The so-called superbugs that cause these infections thrive in hospitals and medical facilities, putting all patients — whether they’re getting care for a minor illness or major surgery — at risk.

The patients at greatest risk from superbugs are the ones who are already more vulnerable to illness from viral lung infections like influenza, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), and Covid-19. The 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic, for example, claimed nearly 300,000 lives around the world. Many of those deaths — between 29% and 55% — were actually caused by secondary bacterial pneumonia, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It’s a one-two punch: A virus can weaken the body, making it easier for complex, hard-to-treat bacteria to take hold.

The new coronavirus is no exception. Already, some studies have found that 1 in 7 patients hospitalized with Covid-19 has acquired a dangerous secondary bacterial infection, and 50% of patients who have died had such infections. The challenge of antibiotic resistance could become an enormous force of additional sickness and death across our health system as the toll of coronavirus pneumonia stretches critical care units beyond their capacity.

Seventeen years ago, when I was leading the CDC, we worried about antibiotic resistance complicating the care of SARS patients. We knew then that America’s arsenal of antibiotics was not sufficient to guarantee we could manage a large outbreak of drug-resistant bacteria. Since then, these bacteria have only become more widespread, more deadly, and far more difficult to treat, yet our stable of antibiotics to manage them has barely increased. In fact, the gap between the superbug threats we face and the antibiotics we have to combat them is rapidly growing wider.

We can’t predict when or where the next pandemic-triggering virus will emerge, but we can predict that secondary bacterial infections will follow. To fight these superbugs, we desperately need new antibiotics. An important question policymakers should be asking themselves is this: Why don’t we have powerful antibiotics on hand when we need them the most?

In a perfect world, we would always have new antibiotics to fight emerging antibiotic-resistant infections, ready to use when a crisis like the Covid-19 pandemic strikes. But developing new antibiotics takes time and can cost more than $1 billion and that investment cannot be recovered by wide use of new antibiotics because they must be used as sparingly as possible to preserve their effectiveness for as long as possible.

Current hospital reimbursement systems generally discourage use of new antibiotics, even when patients clearly need them, because they are more expensive than older antibiotics. Understandably, hospitals that are already challenged to cover the rising costs of care find it hard to justify the inclusion of more expensive drugs on their formularies.

As a result of this unique market dynamic — low reimbursement and low-volume use — many of our country’s most promising antibiotic developers have gone out of business or suffered severe financial losses, including three biotechnology companies within the last year.

This market failure must be corrected as if lives depend on it because they do — as we may soon see as cases of Covid-19 increase. Reimbursement reform will both improve appropriate access to novel antibiotics and encourage private investment in the pipeline. While other proposals have been discussed, including stockpiling and further grant funding for research, these measures do not address the underlying issues.

Recognizing this need is critical, Sens. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) and Bill Cassidy (R-La.) and Reps. Danny Davis (D-Ill.) and Kenny Marchant (R-Texas) have introduced the Developing an Innovative Strategy for Antimicrobial Resistant Microorganisms (DISARM) Act, a bipartisan bill that would reform Medicare reimbursement to make it easier for hospitals to use the antibiotic that is most appropriate for a patient. Right now, there’s a strict cap on how much hospitals are reimbursed by Medicare for inpatient services, which deters use of new targeted antibiotics that might be the best course of therapy for patients with superbug infections.

Passing the DISARM Act is a first step we can take to help ensure that hospitals are not financially penalized when providing patients the lifesaving antibiotics they need. This is good for patients and will, in turn, sustain the confidence investors need to support companies developing new antibiotics. Policymakers must also create incentives, like market entry rewards and other “pull” mechanisms, that clearly signal to biopharmaceutical companies that the antibiotic pipeline merits ongoing research and development investment.

As we come together to fight today’s Covid-19 crisis, we must also look ahead to the next one. We cannot be short-sighted, and we cannot be complacent, especially about antibiotic resistance. We must put measures in place to ensure that we have the antibiotics we need — today and in the future. The time to act is now.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/23/ant ... -covid-19/
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
User avatar
undead
 
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Doumbekistan
Blog: View Blog (1)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests