Nuclear Meltdown Watch

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:34 am

Slad, I don't think you've been paying attention. In the US, the maximum annual exposure to radiation is only 50 millisieverts.

I would not post anything by a reporter who so wrongly expressed a radiation reading of 1120 Ms per hour as being four times the annual maximum 'safe' dosage. Why? Because one hour's release of 1120 Ms is nearly 22.5 times the annual safe dosage.

At this level the annual output of radiation is nearly 10,000,000 time the safe 50 Ms per year.

Also, 1120 Ms a rather unbelievably high figure, in fact it is nearly 20 times as high as the yet highest reported figure of 57 Ms per hour. And that was in the MOX Unit 3. The highest reported radiation level in Unit 1 was 49 Ms. (4-26-11)

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/world/asia/reactors-status.html?ref=asia

This area of Japan has now become a dead zone and with plutonium's half-life of 24,000 years, it will never again become reoccupied. And it's getting worse.

The area is to 'hot' for humans to survive even a very short exposure. The fuel melt-down continues in a few of the power plants and perhaps in at least one of the cooling ponds. No one really knows what will happen or what is happening, but they do know the melt-downs have occurred. I believe they have melted through their steel and concrete containment vessels into the earth.

There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. In Chernobyl, when confronted with a similar fuel melt-down, they built a huge underground concrete 'dish' below the reactor in an attempt to contain the melted mass of fuel, but recent findings seem to reveal that the fuel has melted through it or soon will. A new concrete coffin must again be built anew to cover it from above and another, deeper concrete 'dish' must be constructed underground. 25 years later it's still as deadly dangerous as ever.

If, as I suspect, the cores of two or more of Fukushima's reactors have melted into the earth, Japan will soon to suffer a tremendous explosion when the fuel hits the water table. The release of radiation from such an event will be greater than any not caused by the explosion of a a nuclear weapon.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/energy-environment/atomic-energy/index.html?scp=2&sq=Fukushima&st=cse

Wishful thinking should be on everyone's mind. Prayers, if you will.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:13 am

ok i fucked up, i removed it, i'm sorry, i'm really really tired and really really sick
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby crikkett » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:56 am

seemslikeadream wrote:ok i fucked up, i removed it, i'm sorry, i'm really really tired and really really sick
:hug1:
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:30 pm

Image
Nuclear Incest
Did industry-government collusion contribute to Japan's nuclear disaster?
By William SaletanPosted Thursday, April 28, 2011, at 8:26 AM ET

As Japan struggles to regain control of its Fukushima Daiichi power plant, there's lots of talk about which technical safeguards the plant lacked and which should be required in future nuclear facilities. But a new report points to another kind of safeguard that failed: public institutions.

Nuclear power plants are designed for what the industry calls defense in depth: the inclusion of backup safeguards in case the primary safeguards fail. No single layer of protection should be trusted entirely.

The same is true of people. No power plant operator should be trusted to maintain the safety of its reactors. We need multiple layers of scrutiny—inspectors, regulators, independent nuclear experts—to double- and triple-check the operator's work.

These layers of scrutiny failed in Japan, according to a story in Wednesday's New York Times. The report, by Norimitsu Onishi and Ken Belson, details a web of collusion among Japanese regulators, politicians, and power companies. It's a sobering illustration of what can happen when institutions that should be checking one another merge into a complacent team.

Defense in depth, as described last year by the international Nuclear Energy Agency, involves

consecutive and independent levels of protection that would all have to fail before harmful effects could be caused to people or to the environment. If one level of protection or barrier were to fail, the subsequent level or barrier would be available. Defence in depth ensures that no single technical, human or organisational failure could lead to harmful effects. … The independent effectiveness of the different levels of defence is a necessary element of defence in depth. This is achieved through redundancy and diversity. … Operating systems ensure that plants are not allowed to operate unless a minimum number of diverse systems are available.

The concept sounds terrific. But it doesn't work if the layers aren't truly independent. That's what happened at Fukushima, where safeguards that were supposed to be diverse—grid power supply, backup generators, batteries, pumps—were all taken out by the same chain of events.

The same thing can happen to layers of people who are supposed to police the nuclear industry. Their independence and diversity can turn out to be illusory. According to the Times, that's what happened in Japan.

Onishi and Belson describe a network of corrupting affiliations. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency is run by the ministry responsible for promoting nuclear power. The ministry's senior officials often go on to work for utility companies, including Tokyo Electric Power, which owns the Daiichi plant. Regulators who are supposed to "backstop" the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency rely on engineers from power companies to advise them. Inspectors aren't adequately trained to examine nuclear facilities. One political party ignores safety issues because it's beholden to business. The other party ignores safety issues because it's beholden to unions, which want the construction jobs. Academic critics of the industry suffer professionally because power companies and the government control funding of nuclear energy research.

The failure of these political safeguards may have contributed to the failure of the Daiichi plant's technical safeguards. Onishi and Belson cite three examples. First, regulators granted a 10-year extension to the plant's oldest reactor just before the catastrophic earthquake. Second, the plant's backup generators were inadequately protected from a tsunami. Third, when a whistle-blower warned Japanese regulators about a defect at the Daiichi plant, they exposed his identity to TEPCO, thereby crippling his career, and they left inspection of the problem to TEPCO.

The Japanese term for this nexus of collusion—the "nuclear power village"—sounds a lot like the U.S. military-industrial complex. We don't know yet what role it played in the Fukushima tragedy. But it's a reminder that diverse, independent, and mutually competing institutions are our best protection against calamity. They've preserved freedom in many countries, including ours, for centuries. They've reined in the worst of big business and the worst of big government. We need them now as we re-examine and revamp our energy policy. We need to build nuclear oversight systems the way we build power plants: with safeguards and backups, not trust.

(Readings I recommend: John Boyd at IEEE Spectrum's Tech Talk reports that a robot went into a Fukushima Daiichi reactor building Tuesday to check radiation levels and water leakage. Analiese Miller and Greg Laden warn that the watering necessary to cool the spent-fuel pools may cause them to collapse. Dave Lochbaum at All Things Nuclear says the United States has done "little to nothing" to address spent-fuel risks similar to Fukushima's. Paul Marks at New Scientist says Japan's backup generators don't have enough power to keep reactors cool if another tsunami hits. Geoff Brumfiel at Nature News previews a post-Fukushima shakeup of the International Atomic Energy Agency. Discovery Channel has posted a teaser for its Fukushima documentary, which airs tonight.)
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun May 01, 2011 9:21 am

FYI quoting this from elsewhere...

Even some of the most ardent Japanese proponents of nuclear power are getting fed up with the official nukespeak.
77-year-old Michio Ishikawa, the current most senior advisor of the Japan Nuclear Technology Institute, appeared on an Asahi TV program, contradicting the official "narrative". He said he believes the fuel rods are completely melted.

:anon: ([Cynical mode on] Hopefully he won’t drown in his hot tub.[Cynical mode off]) :anon:

Two recent stories from the same 5 star source :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

(The ex-skf-blogger operates from California. He is a trader and is equally fluent in English and Japanese.
His nick on Zero Hedge is laprima):

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/04/fuku ... clear.html
#Fukushima I Nuke Plant: Japan Nuclear Technology Institute Senior Advisor Says "Reactors 1, 2, 3 All Had Complete Meltdown"

Michio Ishikawa, the former head of the Japan Nuclear Technology Institute and the current "most senior" advisor to the Institute, appeared on an Asahi TV program on April 29 and shared his candid assessment of Fukushima I Nuke Plant accident.

He is known as one of the most ardent proponents of nuclear power generation. The Japan Nuclear Technology Institute was set up in 2005 by Ishikawa in order to represent the interest of the nuclear industry in Japan and promote nuclear energy.

People who watched this Asahi TV program were surprised to hear him contradict the official government "narrative" (I hate that word, but in this case it is exactly what it is, a "narrative" as opposed to reality) about the plant accident, even as he continues to insist nuclear power plants are safe and 100 milli-sieverts cumulative radiation is perfectly safe not just for the plant workers but for everyone.
…”

:popcorn:

Update+follow-up with some probably interesting technical input:

:jptdknpa:

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/04/fuku ... -jnti.html
"#Fukushima I Nuke Plant: Ishikawa of JNTI Talks about Reactor Core Conditions

About TEPCO's "roadmap:

"I believe what they are trying to achieve after 9 months is to cool the reactor cores and solidify them so that no radioactive materials can escape. But they are just doing peripheral tricks like water entombment and nitrogen gas injection. Nitrogen gas, it's dangerous, by the way.

"What they must do is to cool the reactor cores, and there's no way around it. It has to be done somehow."

About the condition of the reactor cores:

"I believe the fuel rods are completely melted. They may already have escaped the pressure vessel. Yes, they say 55% or 30%, but I believe they are all melted down. When the fuel rods melt, they melt from the middle part on down.
… "I think the temperature inside the melted core is 2000 degrees to 2000 and several hundred degrees Celsius. A crust has formed on the surface where the water hits. Decay heat is 2000 to 3000 kilowatts, and through the cracks on the crust the radioactive materials (mostly noble gas and iodine) are escaping into the air.

"Volatile gas has almost all escaped from the reactor by now.
"The water [inside the pressure vessel] is highly contaminated with uranium, plutonium, cesium, cobalt, in the concentration we've never seen before.

"My old colleague contacted me and shared his calculation with me. At the decay heat of 2000 kilowatt... There's a substance called cobalt 60. Highly radioactive, needs 1 to 1.5 meter thick shields. It kills people at 1000 curies. He calculated that there are 10 million curies of cobalt-60 in the reactor core. If 10% of cobalt-60 in the core dissolve into water, it's 1 million curies."

"They (TEPCO) want to circulate this highly contaminated water to cool the reactor core. Even if they are able to set up the circulation system, it will be a very difficult task to shield the radiation. It will be a very difficult work to build the system, but it has to be done.

"It is imperative to know the current condition of the reactor cores. It is my assumption [that the cores have melted], but wait one day, and we have water more contaminated with radioactive materials. This is a war, and we need to build a "bridgehead" at the reactor itself instead of fooling around with the turbine buildings or transporting contaminated water."

[As Ishikawa explains, a notable opponent of nuclear power, Tetsunari Iida (executive director of the Institute of Sustainable Energy Policy and Kyoto University graduate majoring in nuclear science) nods in deep agreement.]

About "war" at Fukushima I Nuke Plant:

"Take the debris clean-up job for example. They are picking up the debris and putting them in containers, as if this is the peacetime normal operation. This is a war. They should dig a hole somewhere and bury the radioactive debris and clean up later. What's important is to clear the site, using the emergency measures. Build a bridgehead to the reactor.
"The line of command is not clear, whether it is the government, TEPCO, or Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.
"Look squarely at the reactors and find out the true situation. [Trying to do something with] the turbine buildings is nothing but a caricature [a joke, a manga, a diversion]."
The show's host says "But wait a minute, Mr. Ishikawa, you are a proponent of nuclear power and we expected to hear from you that everything is going well at Fukushima..."

Mr. Ishikawa answers, "Well, if I'm allowed to tell a lie..."

Now, Mr. Tetsunari Iida speaks, agreeing to Mr. Ishikawa's "war" analogy:
"I totally agree with Mr. Ishikawa's assessment of the plant, and that this is a war. The government simply orders TEPCO to "do it". But it is like the Imperial General Headquarters (大本営) on the eve of the Sea of Japan Naval Battle during the Russo-Japanese War [in 1905] ordering merchant ship TEPCO to attack [the imperial Russian navy].
"The government should appoint a commander. TEPCO has a limit as a private business. No one knows what to do. We have to seek the advice from the best and the brightest in the world."
Mr. Hasegawa of Chunichi Shinbun jumps in, and says "We took the numbers from the government like 30% core melt as true, and went from there. But then Mr. Ishikawa says it's a total melt."
Then, Kohei Otsuka, the Vice Minister of Health and Welfare and politician from the ruling party (DPJ), sitting right next to Mr. Ishikawa, butts in, and warns everyone:
"Since none of us knows for sure the condition of the reactor cores, we shouldn't speculate on a national TV."
Mr. Hasegawa overrides the politician, and says "The real problem is that what no one knows is presented to us every day as if it is a fact, like 30% core melt in the chart."
Hahahahahahahahaha.

I wish Mr. Ishikawa had punched the light-weight politician in the face. At least he should have laughed at him.
…”

:chuckle:
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun May 01, 2011 1:19 pm

^^^^^^^^
Thanks

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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby semiconscious » Sun May 01, 2011 2:01 pm

justdrew - thanks for the great info (& blog link). as the mediocrities that continue to pose as our leadership continue to flail helplessly & twist in the wind, while our media bows worshipfully before them. conspiracy? or simply out-of-control, brain-damaged decadence? very hard to tell them apart...
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Forgetting2 » Sun May 01, 2011 6:46 pm

Just heard from someone in AL who talked to a Browns Ferry Nuclear power plant worker. Says they're down to one working generator. I asked why they don't fly in generators and he tells me these things are huge and specialized for the power needs of the plant. Also said they're looking into diverting power from elsewhere. Did a quick search but didn't see anything on google news...

On Edit: I believe there were 8 backup generators to begin with.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sun May 01, 2011 7:56 pm

Forgetting2 wrote:Just heard from someone in AL who talked to a Browns Ferry Nuclear power plant worker. Says they're down to one working generator. I asked why they don't fly in generators and he tells me these things are huge and specialized for the power needs of the plant. Also said they're looking into diverting power from elsewhere. Did a quick search but didn't see anything on google news...

On Edit: I believe there were 8 backup generators to begin with.


oh boy, I hadn't even heard of that. and just hte other day I said, "it's a good things none of those tornadoes hit any nuke plants"

http://www.google.com/search?q=Browns+Ferry+Nuclear+power+plant&tbm=nws
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby eyeno » Mon May 02, 2011 5:55 pm

Subtle way of saying "we abandon Tokyo but will not fully admit it"? Probably...


Japan: Kan, “Will Study the Possibility of Setting Up an Alternative Capital to Take Over Tokyo’s Role in an Emergency”
May 2nd, 2011

Via: NHK:

Kan said measures were not taken despite previous accidents and warnings, and that he must admit that the utility and the government failed to fully deal with the situation.

He also suggested that he will study the possibility of setting up an alternative capital to take over Tokyo’s role in an emergency, saying that measures must be taken to secure the continuity of the capital’s central functions.

http://cryptogon.com/?p=22139
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby eyeno » Tue May 03, 2011 6:30 am

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby crikkett » Tue May 03, 2011 10:28 am

eyeno wrote:Subtle way of saying "we abandon Tokyo but will not fully admit it"? Probably...


Japan: Kan, “Will Study the Possibility of Setting Up an Alternative Capital to Take Over Tokyo’s Role in an Emergency”
May 2nd, 2011

Via: NHK:

Kan said measures were not taken despite previous accidents and warnings, and that he must admit that the utility and the government failed to fully deal with the situation.

He also suggested that he will study the possibility of setting up an alternative capital to take over Tokyo’s role in an emergency, saying that measures must be taken to secure the continuity of the capital’s central functions.

http://cryptogon.com/?p=22139


1) Dear English-speaking world: it's Capitol. Capital is money.

2) Yikes!
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby smoking since 1879 » Tue May 03, 2011 3:40 pm

Dear Crickkett,

it's Capital, not Capitol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_city

ON EDIT: Yikes
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby crikkett » Tue May 03, 2011 3:55 pm

smoking since 1879 wrote:Dear Crickkett,

it's Capital, not Capitol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_city

ON EDIT: Yikes


Oh, Dammit!
:rofl:
:oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Tue May 03, 2011 4:01 pm

crikkett wrote:
smoking since 1879 wrote:Dear Crickkett,

it's Capital, not Capitol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_city

ON EDIT: Yikes


Oh, Dammit!
:rofl:
:oops: :oops: :oops:


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