Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:52 pm

.

An [increasingly uncommon] voice of reason in the NYTimes. Alot has changed since March 20, but the opinion here, in my view, holds. More so now than a month ago, when initially published.

I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.



Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?

There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

By David L. Katz

Dr. Katz is president of True Health Initiative and the founding director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center.

March 20, 2020

We routinely differentiate between two kinds of military action: the inevitable carnage and collateral damage of diffuse hostilities, and the precision of a “surgical strike,” methodically targeted to the sources of our particular peril. The latter, when executed well, minimizes resources and unintended consequences alike.
As we battle the coronavirus pandemic, and heads of state declare that we are “at war” with this contagion, the same dichotomy applies. This can be open war, with all the fallout that portends, or it could be something more surgical. The United States and much of the world so far have gone in for the former. I write now with a sense of urgency to make sure we consider the surgical approach, while there is still time.

Outbreaks tend to be isolated when pathogens move through water or food, and of greater scope when they travel by widespread vectors like fleas, mosquitoes or the air itself. Like the coronavirus pandemic, the infamous flu pandemic of 1918 was caused by viral particles transmitted by coughing and sneezing. Pandemics occur when an entire population is vulnerable — that is, not immune — to a given pathogen capable of efficiently spreading itself.

Immunity occurs when our immune system has developed antibodies against a germ, either naturally or as a result of a vaccine, and is fully prepared should exposure recur. The immune system response is so robust that the invading germ is eradicated before symptomatic disease can develop.

Importantly, that robust immune response also prevents transmission. If a germ can’t secure its hold on your body, your body no longer serves as a vector to send it forward to the next potential host. This is true even if that next person is not yet immune. When enough of us represent such “dead ends” for viral transmission, spread through the population is blunted, and eventually terminated. This is called herd immunity.

What we know so far about the coronavirus makes it a unique case for the potential application of a “herd immunity” approach, a strategy viewed as a desirable side effect in the Netherlands, and briefly considered in the United Kingdom.

The data from South Korea, where tracking the coronavirus has been by far the best to date, indicate that as much as 99 percent of active cases in the general population are “mild” and do not require specific medical treatment. The small percentage of cases that do require such services are highly concentrated among those age 60 and older, and further so the older people are. Other things being equal, those over age 70 appear at three times the mortality risk as those age 60 to 69, and those over age 80 at nearly twice the mortality risk of those age 70 to 79.

These conclusions are corroborated by the data from Wuhan, China, which show a higher death rate, but an almost identical distribution. The higher death rate in China may be real, but is perhaps a result of less widespread testing. South Korea promptly, and uniquely, started testing the apparently healthy population at large, finding the mild and asymptomatic cases of Covid-19 other countries are overlooking. The experience of the Diamond Princess cruise ship, which houses a contained, older population, proves the point. The death rate among that insular and uniformly exposed population is roughly 1 percent.

We have, to date, fewer than 200 deaths from the coronavirus in the United States — a small data set from which to draw big conclusions. Still, it is entirely aligned with the data from other countries. The deaths have been mainly clustered among the elderly, those with significant chronic illnesses such as diabetes and heart disease, and those in both groups.

This is not true of infectious scourges such as influenza. The flu hits the elderly and chronically ill hard, too, but it also kills children. Trying to create herd immunity among those most likely to recover from infection while also isolating the young and the old is daunting, to say the least. How does one allow exposure and immunity to develop in parents, without exposing their young children?

The clustering of complications and death from Covid-19 among the elderly and chronically ill, but not children (there have been only very rare deaths in children), suggests that we could achieve the crucial goals of social distancing — saving lives and not overwhelming our medical system — by preferentially protecting the medically frail and those over age 60, and in particular those over 70 and 80, from exposure.

Why does this matter?

I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.

Worse, I fear our efforts will do little to contain the virus, because we have a resource-constrained, fragmented, perennially underfunded public health system. Distributing such limited resources so widely, so shallowly and so haphazardly is a formula for failure.
How certain are you of the best ways to protect your most vulnerable loved ones? How readily can you get tested?

We have already failed to respond as decisively as China or South Korea, and lack the means to respond like Singapore. We are following in Italy’s wake, at risk of seeing our medical system overwhelmed twice: First when people rush to get tested for the coronavirus, and again when the especially vulnerable succumb to severe infection and require hospital beds.

Yes, in more and more places we are limiting gatherings uniformly, a tactic I call “horizontal interdiction” — when containment policies are applied to the entire population without consideration of their risk for severe infection.

But as the work force is laid off en masse (our family has one adult child home for that reason already), and colleges close (we have another two young adults back home for this reason), young people of indeterminate infectious status are being sent home to huddle with their families nationwide. And because we lack widespread testing, they may be carrying the virus and transmitting it to their 50-something parents, and 70- or 80-something grandparents. If there are any clear guidelines for behavior within families — what I call “vertical interdiction” — I have not seen them.

Such is the collateral damage of this diffuse form of warfare, aimed at “flattening” the epidemic curve generally rather than preferentially protecting the especially vulnerable. I believe we may be ineffectively fighting the contagion even as we are causing economic collapse.

There is another and much overlooked liability in this approach. If we succeed in slowing the spread of coronavirus from torrent to trickle, then when does the society-wide disruption end? When will it be safe for healthy children and younger teachers to return to school, much less older teachers and teachers with chronic illnesses? When will it be safe for the work force to repopulate the workplace, given that some are in the at-risk group for severe infection?

When would it be safe to visit loved ones in nursing homes or hospitals? When once again might grandparents pick up their grandchildren?

There are many possible answers, but the most likely one is: We just don’t know. We could wait until there’s an effective treatment, a vaccine or transmission rates fall to undetectable levels. But what if those are a year or more away? Then we suffer the full extent of societal disruption the virus might cause for all those months. The costs, not just in money, are staggering to contemplate.

So what is the alternative? Well, we could focus our resources on testing and protecting, in every way possible, all those people the data indicate are especially vulnerable to severe infection: the elderly, people with chronic diseases and the immunologically compromised. Those that test positive could be the first to receive the first approved antivirals. The majority, testing negative, could benefit from every resource we have to shield them from exposure.

To be sure, while mortality is highly concentrated in a select groups, it does not stop there. There are poignant, heart-rending tales of severe infection and death from Covid-19 in younger people for reasons we do not know. If we found over time that younger people were also especially vulnerable to the virus, we could expand the at-risk category and extend protections to them.

We have already identified many of the especially vulnerable. A detailed list of criteria could be generated by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, updated daily and circulated widely to health professionals and the public alike. The at-risk population is already subject to the protections of our current policies: social distancing, medical attention for fever or cough. But there are several major problems with subsuming the especially vulnerable within the policies now applied to all.

First, the medical system is being overwhelmed by those in the lower-risk group seeking its resources, limiting its capacity to direct them to those at greatest need. Second, health professionals are burdened not just with work demands, but also with family demands as schools, colleges and businesses are shuttered. Third, sending everyone home to huddle together increases mingling across generations that will expose the most vulnerable.

As the virus is already circulating widely in the United States, with many cases going undetected, this is like sending innumerable lit matches into small patches of tinder. Right now, it is harder, not easier, to keep the especially vulnerable isolated from all others — including members of their own families — who may have been exposed to the virus.

If we were to focus on the especially vulnerable, there would be resources to keep them at home, provide them with needed services and coronavirus testing, and direct our medical system to their early care. I would favor proactive rather than reactive testing in this group, and early use of the most promising anti-viral drugs. This cannot be done under current policies, as we spread our relatively few test kits across the expanse of a whole population, made all the more anxious because society has shut down.

This focus on a much smaller portion of the population would allow most of society to return to life as usual and perhaps prevent vast segments of the economy from collapsing. Healthy children could return to school and healthy adults go back to their jobs. Theaters and restaurants could reopen, though we might be wise to avoid very large social gatherings like stadium sporting events and concerts.

So long as we were protecting the truly vulnerable, a sense of calm could be restored to society. Just as important, society as a whole could develop natural herd immunity to the virus. The vast majority of people would develop mild coronavirus infections, while medical resources could focus on those who fell critically ill. Once the wider population had been exposed and, if infected, had recovered and gained natural immunity, the risk to the most vulnerable would fall dramatically.

A pivot right now from trying to protect all people to focusing on the most vulnerable remains entirely plausible. With each passing day, however, it becomes more difficult. The path we are on may well lead to uncontained viral contagion and monumental collateral damage to our society and economy. A more surgical approach is what we need.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opin ... ncing.html
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Elvis » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:00 am

undead wrote:Why bother to get upset about what some random people on the internet say?

This is not a random place on the Internet.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:24 am

Elvis wrote:
undead wrote:Why bother to get upset about what some random people on the internet say?

This is not a random place on the Internet.


Lol, I know. I said it is "an interesting place to find articles about politics and current events, etc." I was pointing out how it doesn't make sense to get self righteous and indignant about the opinions of anyone who posts here. Having abstract debates with strangers on the internet that you don't know is not a healthy emotional outlet. There are much more important things in (real, physical, non-internet) life to get emotionally worked up about. Intellectual exercise is great, but if it devolves to the point of personal attacks, blanket (mis) characerizations, and hot air, what is the point? There is an ignore function, right? Use it. Don't be a master debator, it just drains your energy. Save it for someone who cares about you.

I didn't mean to diminish the board. By "random people" I was referring to myself, since I don't live here. I am interested in conversing with many of the interesting people here, but definitely not interesting in having a pissing match with people I don't even know. That would obviously be a total waste of time.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby 0_0 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:28 am

Michigan judge authorizes arresting people on suspicion of COVID-19 illness
In one county, anyone deemed a 'carrier and health threat' can be detained by police and taken to an Involuntary Isolation Facility.

KENT COUNTY, Michigan, April 16, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) – Michigan has already become a national lightning rod for the extent of its COVID-19 response measures, and now a judge has empowered police in one county to go even further by detaining people for simple suspicion that they’ve come down with the virus.

First highlighted by radio host Steve Gruber, Kent County Chief Circuit Judge Mark Trusock’s April 6 order declares that any citizen deemed to be a "carrier and health threat" can be “involuntarily detained by a peace officer, transported to and detained in an Involuntary Isolation Facility selected by the Health Officer for observation, testing, and/or treatment."

The individual could then be held for at least three days to confirm he or she is “without a fever of 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit for at least 72 consecutive hours (without use of fever reducing medication) and/or is otherwise non-symptomatic and meets the CDC criteria for release from isolation."


https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/michi ... 19-illness
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:42 am

^^^ This is pretty alarming. Here is a pdf of the actual legal order, instead of the interpretation of an apparently pro-life, right wing website.

https://greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/upl ... -Order.pdf
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:59 am

This is also a right wing pro life organization, and I do not endorse their views, but this is worth paying attention to. I wonder if there will be any forced treatments.

https://greatlakesjc.org/kent_county_general_warrant/

Michigan Judge Issues Unconstitutional Order Empowering Authorities to Arrest Anyone over COVID-19 Fears

On April 6, 2020, Kent County Chief Circuit Judge Mark Trusock issued a court order authorizing the police to involuntarily detain (arrest) anyone suspected to be a “carrier and health threat” to the community.

The Court Order violates both the Michigan and Federal Constitutions

General warrants are unconstitutional. Warrants to arrest or detain people cannot be issued against an entire class of persons or against everyone in a single county. Warrants must be specific and may only be issued against a particular person for a particular reason. The State cannot give the police and health authorities unrestricted power to arrest and force testing and treatment of a person or deprive them of their liberty without due process.

The U.S. Const., 4th Amendment states:

… no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Michigan’s Const., Art. 1, Section 11 states:

… No warrant to search any place or to seize any person or things shall issue without describing them, nor without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation.

Judge Trusock’s order violates the constitutional rights of all persons in Kent County. The order is unconstitutional because it gives blanket authority to officials to arrest/detain any person without any court hearing or without any evidence establishing probable cause to support the detention.

The Court Order violates Michigan’s Public Health Code

Judge Trusock relied upon MCL 333.5207 to issue his order. However, the statute only allows the detention of an “individual” who the “court has reasonable cause to believe” is a public health threat. Instead of issuing this order against a particular individual, the court unlawfully issued its decree against anyone who happens to be present in Kent County.

Under Judge Trusock’s order, if a health official determines (in his or her sole discretion) a person has COVID-19, that person may be detained for up to 72 hours without any opportunity to be heard at a court hearing. However, a court may not delegate its decision-making and due process responsibilities to a local health official. The official must file a specific affidavit with specific allegations against a specific person prior to detention. There is a court form used by health officials for emergencies (SCAO PC-110). Judge Trusock’s court order ignores the legally required petition process.

When government officials improperly exercise power beyond that provided in law it violates principles of good governance and the Rule of Law. This order is unconstitutional, unlawful, and unenforceable. Any police officer or health official arresting or detaining a person under this illegal order is acting outside the scope of their legal authority and may face personal liability if they try to enforce this order.

Great Lakes Justice Center calls on Judge Trusock to rescind his unconstitutional order.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:11 am

0_0 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:28 am wrote:
Michigan judge authorizes arresting people on suspicion of COVID-19 illness
In one county, anyone deemed a 'carrier and health threat' can be detained by police and taken to an Involuntary Isolation Facility.

KENT COUNTY, Michigan, April 16, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) – Michigan has already become a national lightning rod for the extent of its COVID-19 response measures, and now a judge has empowered police in one county to go even further by detaining people for simple suspicion that they’ve come down with the virus.

First highlighted by radio host Steve Gruber, Kent County Chief Circuit Judge Mark Trusock’s April 6 order declares that any citizen deemed to be a "carrier and health threat" can be “involuntarily detained by a peace officer, transported to and detained in an Involuntary Isolation Facility selected by the Health Officer for observation, testing, and/or treatment."

The individual could then be held for at least three days to confirm he or she is “without a fever of 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit for at least 72 consecutive hours (without use of fever reducing medication) and/or is otherwise non-symptomatic and meets the CDC criteria for release from isolation."


https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/michi ... 19-illness


Gnarly. If I'm being generous though, this kind of looks like more of a provocative re-working of existing 5150 hold rules than any fresh dystopian mechanism. Conceptual window dressing rather than new machine IOW.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:45 am

0_0 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:06 am wrote:
8bitagent wrote:from all the data I'm seeing with the Covid mutations, it seems really bizarre. Like a real life Freddy Krueger that presents wildly bizarre and different symptoms to different people, geographics, areas, etc. A biological trickster.


Maybe Covid presents such "wildly bizarre and different symptoms to different people, geographic, areas, etc" because there are wildly different circumstances and causes killing people in different ways in different areas that are now all counted under this narrative of one pandemic new virus. Wouldn't that be the most logical conclusion? And haven't official sources admitted as much for a while now? Like here for example:




And maybe humans need to stop eating so much damn meat. Might sound culturally insensitive, but it's wild how so many of these pandemics since the 1990's seem so linked to the meat industry and meat consumption. I didn't want to believe it and I used to argue online with vegans, but from the slavery of workers at slaughterhouses to the destructive effects of meat eating, no wonder so much of the world is at grave risk once Covid enters the body(as a middle aged poor minority with high blood pressure/diabetes/weight issues I realize I'm a goner if I get this shit) Regardless if it came from a lab, bats, or mother nature acting schizoid, I am thinking my decision to go vegan last year may not be so insane.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:08 am

Again it sounds like out of a sci fi movie, but 3 months in from when the crisis shut down China and began exporting to now, it feels like this is a hall of mirrors. Everyone's agenda and position is being massaged and whispered by this reflecting Covid pool. Hell Im sure I could be called a "3rd position eco fascist" for sharing videos of wild life roaming free and the positive environmental benefits of the mass human shutddown...while also posting articles on the mass human toll the virus is having in Equador and threatening indigenous South American tribes people. Mainstream Trump hating Democrats can jerk eachother off with images of flag waving "open the economy up" protests and how "Let them eat Bleach Orange Cheeto" is using the virus crisis to push through all sorts of horror....while the PRO TRUMP MAGA death cult Fox news folks can say how the Democrats are killing their voters by making them show up to polling stations and not realizing that The Great Depression 2.0 will kill more people than Covid thru starvation, suicide, drug addiction, etc. The Democrats blame everything on Russian conspiracies, the right wing blame everything on Chinese conspiracies. so many movies have told us what is to come. Horror movies where a supernatural force makes everyone see the nightmare they want to see, and hate what they want to hate. Or films that show how fragile the very columns of society are, and that society can crumble from an unknown alien/natural disaster/terror/foreign invasion/apocalyptic scenario.

Hey, who the fuck better to lead us into our hubris planet destroying obliteration than an insane stand up comic game show host? It's like Running Man 2020! At least we'll be entertained more than if a barely functioning 80 year old corpse named Biden is in charge! And hey, if only Bernie Scammers hasnt taken all the millennial youth's hard earned savings(twice!) they could have that nest egg since theyre out of a job. Oh wait, noone has a job now. Noone has an answer. Geezus even Hollywood Reporter and Variety are talking about how the movie industry could collapse. Shit's so fucked on so many levels, my pragmatic historical research, cynical conspiracy side and comedy central side don't have any answers. Which is to say noone has any answers. Not even the late great Michael Rupert could have predicted that in 2020, Oil would collapse to negative $38 dollars.

Trumps campaign is sinking...Biden is sinking...media claims Lil Kim is near death as his lil sis Yo Jong! (sounds like a 90s kid show) is about to take over North Korea. Mass unrest in America and the world, collapse of the financial system, mass unemployment, major food supply disrupuption, potential WW3 in the coming decade....yet the only thing I know for sure is that the "right wing" Pentagon/CIA and the "left wing" loving arms of Google/Apple/Microsoft/Amazon/Silicon Valley are merging to create the very AI skynet Orwellian hellscape that both the left and right fringe conspiracy theorists and writers had warned about for decades

Techno-Tyranny: How The US National Security State Is Using Coronavirus To Fulfill An Orwellian Vision
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com ... an-vision/
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Blue » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:35 am

https://twitter.com/i/status/1253826871940218882

Don't know how to post the actual tweet video but it's hilarious.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby alloneword » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:08 am

The COVID-19 pandemic will see more than a quarter of a billion people suffering acute hunger by the end of the year, according to new figures from the World Food Programme (WFP).

Latest numbers indicate the lives and livelihoods of 265 million people in low and middle-income countries will be under severe threat...

https://insight.wfp.org/covid-19-will-a ... df0c4a8072

World Food Programme (WFP) Executive Director David Beasley has warned that in addition to the threat posed by COVID-19, the world faces “multiple famines of biblical proportions” that could result in 300,000 deaths per day — a “hunger pandemic”...

..with shutdowns exacerbating poverty, more people are expected to die from the economic impact of COVID-19 than from the virus itself, the Global Food Crises Report suggests.

https://insight.wfp.org/wfp-chief-warns ... e3edb38e47
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:09 am

8bitagent wrote:Oh wait, noone has a job now. Noone has an answer.


I have a job. I got a new job immediately when this shit started, on a vegetable farm. USDA Organic certification is not the unicorns and rainbows that many people think it is, but it is very significantly better than "conventional" agriculture. I like to call it "Not Psychotically Poisoning Ourselves Certified". People should reconsider the condescending gaslighting attitudes toward "preppers" in this new situation, now that it is so obvious that the whole industrial economy is a giant death trap. I know it is often impossible and never easy to deprogram and change, especially with age, but what else is there to do? It's the Green New Deal. They don't talk about that part of it on TV even though it is the giant beached blue whale in the room of the environmental situation. If you can't do it yourself, you had better get in touch with someone who does, so you can eat food. It's not a solution to the whole problem, but it is definitely necessary. Chemical agriculture is an "underlying condition".
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby undead » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:16 am

Life After Ventilators Can Be Hell for Coronavirus Survivors
Some never fully recover, and those who do often must relearn basic skills such as walking and swallowing.

By Michelle Fay Cortez and Olivia Carville
April 24, 2020, 7:00 AM EDT

Her fever hit 105 degrees. In her delirium, Diana Aguilar was sure the strangers hovering over her, in their masks and gowns, were angels before they morphed into menacing aliens. As a doctor prepared to slide a ventilator tube down her throat, all she remembers thinking was: “I cannot breathe. I have no air. I give up, I give up.”

Aguilar, in the throes of Covid-19, was starting her 10-day descent into ventilator limbo. The mechanical device to which her tube was attached is coveted for its ability to push life-saving oxygen deep into damaged lungs. Yet it also is feared and reviled for the damage it inflicts — and for the slim odds of survival it affords. Aguilar wasn’t aware of any of that, yet she sensed this could be the end. She whispered her goodbyes to her husband, son and daughter, none of whom were anywhere nearby, and then she prayed to God in her native Spanish.

“You’re going to be fine,” a voice reassured her. “Start counting now; one, two…”

The voice belonged to an anesthesiologist, the last she heard before drifting off. Diana was diagnosed with Covid-19 on March 18, the day she arrived in the emergency room at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital Somerset in Somerville, New Jersey. The virus had already been ravaging her body for weeks, infecting the tiny cells in her lungs that deliver oxygen to her blood.

She was struggling to breathe, and every inch of her body ached as she felt it failing. And then came the intubation, a last-resort intervention to save her life. It’s an awful moment for each of the many thousands of patients who are estimated to have undergone the procedure.

Most will not survive: Studies suggest more than two-thirds die while on ventilators.

As the cases of Covid-19 infection soar, already approaching 900,000 Americans, more and more patients are going through the same dreaded treatment. The lucky ones pull through, but their journey back to health is long and perilous. Doctors are only now learning about the challenges ahead for people who arrive at the hospital so breathless and low on oxygen that a ventilator, many believe, is all that’s standing between them and death.

“Mechanical ventilation is a life-saving intervention,” says Hassan Khouli, chair of critical care at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio. Yet even when patients survive, “some of them will continue to be profoundly weak,” he says. “It can get to the point where they can’t perform daily activities — shaving, taking a bath, preparing a meal — to the point they could be bedridden.’’

Some people never fully recover, says Michael Rodricks, medical director of Somerset’s intensive-care unit. And those who do often must relearn basic skills such as walking, talking and swallowing.

Just a few weeks ago, when the success of social-distancing strategies was far from assured, various models estimated that the U.S., with about 63,000 of the devices available across the country, would fall dramatically and tragically short of the numbers needed. At one point, it was estimated that New York City alone may need 40,000 ventilators. Auto manufacturers agreed to work with medical-device makers to ramp up emergency production. And as makeshift hospitals sprang up in New York’s Central Park and in conference centers and gymnasiums across the country, plans were hatched to put two patients on a single ventilator to double capacity.

Now there’s good news: It appears that U.S. hospitals will need fewer than 17,000 devices to treat Covid-19 patients, according to one widely used model. What the final numbers will look like as the virus continues its march across the country is anyone’s guess. But there’s little doubt there will be thousands of ventilator survivors once the pandemic is over. And the quality of their lives is still an open question.

When Aguilar, 55, woke up in intensive care at the end of March, she found her wrists tied to the bed frame. That, she later learned, was to stop her from tearing out the tube that ran down her throat all the way to her lungs. It was connected to a mechanical ventilator that had been breathing for her for 10 days as she lay in a medically induced coma.

A nurse slowly peeled the tape off her face and, with a flick of her wrist, yanked out the tube. Aguilar had made it through the most harrowing phase of her Covid-19 gantlet.

Nurses and doctors lined the hallway outside her room in the 361-bed regional medical center, located halfway between Trenton, New Jersey, and New York City. When she looked up through the glass window, they started cheering and chanting. “Yay, Diana! You made it!” she remembers hearing.

“They were jumping and clapping, and everybody was so happy,” she says. “I didn’t know I had all these people waiting for me, waiting to see how I’d do.”

She hadn’t yet fully grasped how close she had come to death and the long odds she had just beaten. The cheers were also because many of the patients with whom she shared the ICU eventually were rolled out in body bags. Here’s why: The lungs are dynamic, delivering inhaled oxygen into the blood supply in seconds. If they aren’t working, the damage is swift. A person can go from healthy to dead in fewer than six minutes.

She also didn’t know that her husband, Carlos Aguilar, was in the room next to her. While Diana was sedated as the machine helped her breathe, Carlos had grown ill with the same virus. A few days earlier, he’d been admitted to the hospital. And hours after Diana regained consciousness, Carlos, 64, was sedated so doctors could slide a tube down his throat as his breathing worsened.

When a person inhales, oxygen flows through the trachea, down branches that divide again and again, to end in 600 million tiny buds of air sacs known as alveoli. The oxygen passes easily through their walls, just one cell thick, and into the blood stream, where it fuels the rest of the body.

Coronavirus and the inflammation it causes is like slime, clogging up the intricate system. One of the most troubling aspects is the virus’s ability to penetrate deep within the lungs, burrowing into cells and churning out viral particles. The issue isn’t just losing those cells in the lungs that are supposed to help oxygenate the body. The problem is the lungs then become the battleground for the fight, where the human immune system takes on the foreign invader. The tightly packed cells become so swollen from fluid and inflammation they stop functioning. Survivors have likened it to the sensation of drowning.

Because SARS-CoV-2 is new to the human body, the infection can trigger a massive immune response, says Christopher Petrilli, an assistant professor at NYU Langone Health in New York.

“If you have an infection, your body tries to recruit as many immune cells as it can to fight that infection,’’ he says. “While it is effective at destroying the cells that have the virus, it has the potential to damage the surrounding tissue as well.’’

The interplay between the respiratory and circulatory systems, which run oxygen-enriched blood through the body, is delicate. In Covid-19 patients, the lungs don’t move enough oxygen. This restricts the amount that makes it into the blood, where it is supposed to fuel the body, repair and replace damaged cells and support the immune system.

That’s where a ventilator comes in.

It can be adjusted to boost oxygen, pressure and volume, pushing the air more forcefully into the lungs. But even when a patient is severely ill, some alveoli still function well. The goal is to take the pressure off the sick regions while supporting those that are still working, making sure they have the ideal amounts of oxygen and pressure so they can enrich the blood as efficiently as possible.

“I call this the Goldilocks approach,’’ says J. Brady Scott, an associate professor of cardiopulmonary sciences at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago. “When we put people on ventilators, one of my goals is to give a person the oxygen they need but not cause damage to the parts of the lungs that are still healthy. You don’t want to get too little, not too much. You want to give just what’s right.’’

Though weak, Diana felt a wave of euphoria when she was free of the ventilator. But her sense of joy was short-lived. A doctor informed her that her husband was on life support in the ICU room next to hers. Diana was crushed. Had she made it this far, only to see her husband of 35 years taken away from her? The couple had been together since Diana was just 17 years old. She wasn’t about to say goodbye to him now. The following day, as she was wheeled out of intensive care, her nurse pulled her bed up beside his room to let her peer through the glass window so she could catch a glimpse of Carlos, who was now on a ventilator, too.

“I don’t know how I pulled my body to sit up, but I wanted to see him,” she says. Her cell phone felt like a brick in her weak hand, but Aguilar managed to lift it above the bed frame to snap a photo of Carlos. She blessed him before she was whisked away, exhausted.

With both parents in intensive care, the Aguilar’s grown children were distraught. Carlos Aguilar Jr., 32, lives with his parents in New Jersey and had watched them both rapidly deteriorate from Covid-19 at home. “I felt helpless,’’ he says, especially after dropping his dad off at the hospital, waiting in the silent house for a phone call. “Not knowing what’s next is so hard.”

For years, the main focus of critical-care doctors who intubate patients has been keeping them alive, fine-tuning the treatments in an effort to improve survival rates. The machines, first introduced in 1928, were initially called iron lungs and used to help polio patients breathe. Only recently have researchers learned that the biological responses to the breathing machines that kick in almost immediately often have lasting harm.

“There are a lot of other dangers when we use mechanical ventilation,’’ says Richard Lee, interim chief of pulmonary diseases and critical-care medicine at the University of California at Irvine. “We have to sedate patients for them to tolerate a mechanical breathing tube in their lungs, and the longer you are in an ICU on sedation requiring a machine, all those other things — like decreased muscle tone and strength and the risk of hospital-acquired infections — increase.’’

When a person goes on a ventilator, the muscles that typically handle their breathing start to atrophy within hours. Many patients are put on sedatives to make it easier for the machine to take over. But this immobilizes other parts of their body and leads to widespread weakness.

The risk of dying remains higher than average for at least a year after getting off a ventilator, a risk tied to both the number of days spent on the machine and other health conditions the patient had before falling sick.

Diana didn’t have the best health track record going in. She is a two-time colon-cancer survivor with high blood pressure, iron deficiency and a few extra pounds. She has only vague memories of her days on a ventilator, waking up in pain unable to talk or move, before drifting back into a troubled sleep full of dreams of her deceased relatives. Her husband, Carlos, with no previous medical condition, had a totally different experience. He spent three days on a ventilator, mildly sedated, spending his days napping or sitting in an armchair watching television.

Yet both now face the ordeal of recovering from their treatments. Fortunately, they were able to avoid the worst-case scenario, a condition known as Post-ICU syndrome that can afflict as many as half of Covid-19 patients who survive on a ventilator, says the Cleveland Clinic’s Khouli.

“These patients become deconditioned,’’ he says. “Some behave like they are really paralyzed, as if they are quadriplegics. They can barely move their muscles.’’

Hospitals are gearing up to treat these survivors, who already number in the hundreds. Some, like SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York, are setting up entire rehabilitation floors to help people coming off ventilators learn how to live again. Others are trying to cut back use of the device, avoiding a rush to ventilators when oxygen may be all that’s needed.

There are also devices in development to help with recovery, such as Liberate Medical’s VentFree Muscle Stimulator. It uses electrical stimulation to trigger contractions in the abdominal wall muscles, allowing patients to “exercise,” even while they are unconscious, to keep them in some semblance of shape. The goal is to help wean them off the devices faster and ultimately boost survival rates, says Chief Executive Officer Angus McLachlan.

In patients who develop acute respiratory distress — a common condition with Covid-19 marked by dramatic drops in oxygen levels — there is a second stage where scarring in the lungs develops, the University of California Irvine’s Lee says. As inflammatory and other cells invade the space, the architecture of the lungs is permanently changed.

The machines also can cause cognitive impairment, Rodricks says. A patient who worked as an accountant may have a tough time going back to work. An elderly person who was previously independent might struggle to perform daily tasks such as driving or grocery shopping. And a runner might never be able to hit the same pace again.

“Your overall condition may take some time to get back to its pre-Covid, pre-ICU state — if it ever gets back to that pre-ICU state,” he says.

The recovery will be sweeter for Diana Aguilar, now that Carlos has rejoined her after being released from the hospital on April 14. So far, three weeks after her release, it’s been mercilessly slow. Diana still feels weak, with a shortness of breath and vivid nightmares that she’s back in the hospital, tied to the bed, unable to breathe. But she’s thankful.

“There is some miracle that I’m here and he’s here,” she says. “I feel like God gave us another opportunity in this life.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -survivors
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:16 am

I'll post some important findings later. I'll be meeting with my niece and grand-niece, my nephew, his wife and two kids, a boy, 6 and a girl, 5; the children and grandchildren of my sister. I've never before met my nephew's children and I'm quite excited to finally meet them. My Niece is from Oakland and my Nephew is from Atlanta, and I'm truly concerned about contracting this disease as a consequence. I'll explain a bit more about what happened to my sister while hospitalized with a broken arm during this plague.

I've had a few informative research papers filed I've been wanting to post for more than a week now, and will when I return, but for now, some much needed humor:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUJe3BFLh8M
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:25 am

.

Belligerent Savant » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:52 pm wrote:.



I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.




...

If we were to focus on the especially vulnerable, there would be resources to keep them at home, provide them with needed services and coronavirus testing, and direct our medical system to their early care. I would favor proactive rather than reactive testing in this group, and early use of the most promising anti-viral drugs. This cannot be done under current policies, as we spread our relatively few test kits across the expanse of a whole population, made all the more anxious because society has shut down.

This focus on a much smaller portion of the population would allow most of society to return to life as usual and perhaps prevent vast segments of the economy from collapsing. Healthy children could return to school and healthy adults go back to their jobs. Theaters and restaurants could reopen, though we might be wise to avoid very large social gatherings like stadium sporting events and concerts.

So long as we were protecting the truly vulnerable, a sense of calm could be restored to society. Just as important, society as a whole could develop natural herd immunity to the virus. The vast majority of people would develop mild coronavirus infections, while medical resources could focus on those who fell critically ill. Once the wider population had been exposed and, if infected, had recovered and gained natural immunity, the risk to the most vulnerable would fall dramatically.

A pivot right now from trying to protect all people to focusing on the most vulnerable remains entirely plausible. With each passing day, however, it becomes more difficult. The path we are on may well lead to uncontained viral contagion and monumental collateral damage to our society and economy. A more surgical approach is what we need.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opin ... ncing.html


Arguably, Katz' point from a month ago is all the more pressing now.

Also: have there been any tentative figures on deaths caused not by covid-19 itself, but due to neglect (such as the negative outcome of available healthcare resources focused on covid-19 and not on other care/health needs, etc)?
A percentage of those that died in senior homes were due, at least in part, to neglect - those that required daily, consistent care no longer recieved it as senior care workers stayed home or minimized interaction.

I read a number of instances where patients, after surgery, were placed in a regular bed -- rather than ICU, because ICUs were all allocated to covid-19 -- post-op and died as a result. These may be isolated instances but it doesn't appear they're being tracked right now.

None of the above factors in the loss of lives, and livelihoods, that we are experiencing now, and will experience for many months to follow, due specifically to the scale and duration of lockdown measures in place (depression, starvation, malnourishment, poverty -- all heavy contributors to an increase of mortality rates).
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