zionists vs. truth

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zionists vs. truth

Postby darkbeforedawn » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:54 pm

very cool post here. These people are monsters

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/d ... g_id=56612
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Postby darkbeforedawn » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:21 am

Has any one ever heard of this group in the school bus?
Their work is very impressive
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Postby darkbeforedawn » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:07 pm

zionists are not only stopping truth from coming out about the wars for oil and Israel we are now conducting, they also consistently stop anything about 9-11 from being published in the so-called leftwing places like Mother Jones, The Nation, The Progressive etc.

I don't know if it is conscious or not....but try approaching a zionist about 9-11...they run like their pants are on fire.

That is what is wrong with many posters here and why they argue endlessly about 9-11....Zionists are hiding Dov Zahkeim and the Mossad, who when you follow the threads end up behind 9-11.
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Postby nomo » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:19 pm

Why don't you come straight out and say the Jews did it?
:roll:
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Postby darkbeforedawn » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:30 pm

The Jews DID NOT do it. You are simply ludicrous crawl back into your toilet, racist
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Postby nomo » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:31 pm

Oh, I see. No Jews. Just "zionists" and the Mossad. Gotcha.
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:44 pm

There is a difference, Nomo. Zionism is a political movement and ideology, Judaism is a religion, a culture, perhaps an ethinicity even. Big difference between the two. One can be critical Zionists without without being pejorative towards Judaism and Jews. To insist one cannot, is an extremely short-sighted and shallow world view.
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Postby nomo » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:17 pm

I'm well aware of that, MP. However, anti-zionism to many is a codeword for old fashioned anti-Semitism. Outrageous claims that it's the zionists who are preventing us from getting at 9/11 "truth", and that the Mossad did it, just sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head.
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:28 pm

I dont blame you for sounding the red flag, but you cant assume everyone who is critical of Zionists hate Jews. It is not sound policy.
Last edited by MASONIC PLOT on Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dbeach » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:58 pm

nomobrains its your code word
to slam anbody who challenges the state of Israel


semites is a bit complicated If you ever looked up its meaning

"anti-zionism to many is a codeword for old fashioned anti-Semitism. Outrageous claims that it's the zionists who are preventing us from getting at 9/11 "truth"

but nomobrains its easier to silence discussion by bringing up your
conditioned response phrases

outrageous is baiting and trying to equate 2 different concepts zionism and anti-semitism
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:14 pm

Anyone who hasn't noticed the trend for far right organisations to legitimise race hate using the term zionism is blind or deliberately ignoring it.

But again thats a very conveinient tool for Zionists to use. The agenda of "Zionists" does seem to be violent, colonialist and racist anyway.

btw DBD, if you think about this in ref to that thread of yours where some Israeli's are calling for fellow citizens to be stripped of their citizenship, it does make the anti semeticism tag seem a little hypocritical.

After all Semetism and Zionism are two different things but there does seem to be a move that is well undfer way to link the two.

Denying Israeli citizens their rights as citizens is about as anti semetic as it is possible to be. Its a similar thing to criticising Jewish and Israeli people who object to some Israeli policy as being self hating.

Where is the real self hate, in a call for moderation or a denial of your people?

But it is extremely hard to talk about this stuff, not just cos of any Zionist aggro.

Cos also the last thing I want to do is give any fuel to the Stormfront crowd and their clones.
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Postby Jeff » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:31 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Anyone who hasn't noticed the trend for far right organisations to legitimise race hate using the term zionism is blind or deliberately ignoring it.


Absolutely right.

This seems like a good place to excerpt from the blog post The Left, the Right and the Wrong:

Two of the three sites singled out by the State Department [as examples of 9/11 conspiracy thought] are, rightly or wrongly, widely perceived as containing anti-semitic bias. Rense.com's enthusiastic support of Ernst Zundel, and its linking to revisionist accounts of his "heroic struggle," may be made in the spirit of idealized libertarianism, but Zundel is a Nazi, and his kampf is not my own. The late Joe Vialls did some very commendable work, particularly his series on the Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman murders, but he also tended to see Jews under the bed an awful lot ("Kosher Kerry Cons Christian America", for one mild instance).

What the State Department is doing by holding up these sites - one, Vialls, rather obscure - as exemplars of "conspiracy theory," is to administer a poison pill to contrary analysis. To the poor journalist or media consumer taking cues from the "counter-misinformation team," it will appear as though conspiracy theory has an essential core of anti-semitism. But there's maybe more going on than that.

In the first part of my interview with ritual abuse-mind control survivor Kathleen Sullivan, she made the following observation:

Another interesting factor is that most of the more outspoken disinfo agents present together at conferences that either pander to “conspiracy theorists” and/or to the sector that is pro-Aryan and/or “Patriot.” Not all people in the Patriot movement are pro-Aryan. However, I have learned that most of the mind-control disinfo agents are, privately if not publicly, avowed racists. This would seem to be a rather odd connection, if one did not know that many Aryan organizations and cell groups use “trauma-based mind control” on their members, to ensure their submission and compliance.

I find this fascinating. Sullivan says that the occult-intelligence perpetrators of ritual abuse belong to the Aryan networks, as do those who have claimed leadership of its exposure. This is one of those things that threw me for a cognitive loop when I began discovering this material, which nearly tempted me to pretend the evidence for it didn't exist. (Another one was that many of the self-styled champions of mind control survivors become their lovers and handlers.) These characters, like Fritz Springmeier, Mark Phillips and Ted Gunderson, are either drawn from or pander to the extreme right: the militias, the White Nationalists, and the "Patriot" communities. (Linda Blood, author of The New Satanists, had a WTF? moment in the mid-90s at a ritual and cult abuse conference, to the delight of debunker Evan Harrington: "Blood, who spoke later in the day, protested that she was 'unhappy to be following someone [Marqui] who is pushing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,' which she said was anti-Semitic trash. Blood's protest deeply angered some and bewildered others, while about four of Blood's friends clapped in support.")

The conspiratocracy nurtures a false opposition on the far right, to cause gentler hearts across the spectrum to turn away in disgust from inquiring after darker secrets, and perhaps also to provide cover to a pool of low-level functionaries.

And it's no exaggeration to say Nazis are throwing their thought-bombs at us, attempting to make their cause respectable and infiltrate our side and - worse - our minds. On the "White Nationalist" board Stormfront, a recent post from "Free Zundel Now" spoke of success spreading a "stealth article" calling for Bush's impeachment on "forums that ordinarily won't take our kind of subject matter." "Free Zundel Now" tried it on the RI board, and the Nazi spamming was exposed.

From Stormfront's "Celtic Nation," advice on infiltration:

...you have to speak a language they will hear, and speak to what they will hear, and as you said, point out racial realities. The constant drone of Jew bashing will start to turn people off. It does make WN's look like kooks and conspiracy theorists, and hearkens people back to nutty stereotypes of Col. Klink from Hogan's Heroes, and paranoid conspiracy theorists who are mentally off-center.

When I discuss Israel and the Jews, I try to talk of the evils of the state of Israel, and if they are ready for it, introduce more. The fact is that most of what we struggle against is the big picture - the superstructures in place by the Jews in power.


Sometimes Israel means Israel, sometimes Zionist means Zionist. But sometimes it means something else. We need to know this, we need to become sensitive to the sometimes encrypted message, if we are to meet and defeat the true enemy. Because in every instance, Nazi means Nazi.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:29 am

The conspiratocracy nurtures a false opposition on the far right, to cause gentler hearts across the spectrum to turn away in disgust from inquiring after darker secrets, and perhaps also to provide cover to a pool of low-level functionaries.


Exactly.


Another interesting factor is that most of the more outspoken disinfo agents present together at conferences that either pander to “conspiracy theorists” and/or to the sector that is pro-Aryan and/or “Patriot.” Not all people in the Patriot movement are pro-Aryan. However, I have learned that most of the mind-control disinfo agents are, privately if not publicly, avowed racists. This would seem to be a rather odd connection, if one did not know that many Aryan organizations and cell groups use “trauma-based mind control” on their members, to ensure their submission and compliance.


Not always sexual trauma tho. Aryan Nation works, well seems to work predominantly on Violence based trauma. tho what happens in gaol out of site could counter this argument.... other skinhead groups follow similar patterns.

An initiation into a group ala Once were Warriors (not a skinhead group, but the movie illustrates the principle well) provides a similar trauma based thing that I think can be more powerful than coersive methods.

Jee nearly 10 years ago now I used to Access the Net from SCU and always ended up in flame warms with stormfront nuts.

If I had a dollar for every time I got a death threat off those wankers....

But even then they were really touching on the ideas that this site and other conspiracy sites have as their bread and butter.

However in their case it was agenda based and framed into a racist dialogue. Its a good recruiting ground.

I think that if a fascist takeover happens in an overt Nazi germany style way, within a few months Stormfront views will become mainstream. Thats just my feeling on it.

getting off track here.

There is something about the structure of that dynamic that reminds me of politics in Aus in the late 90s. Pauline Hanson's One Nation movement and the subsequent racism that the "Liberal" party in Australia manipulated to maintain power...

This issue kind of convinces me of the long term plan over arching conspiracy (as opposed to late Bobs spagetti theory rest with a chuckle Bob). It is easy to see long laid Nazi plans.

Esp in connection with your first quote above.

The very field of conspiracy attracts those disaffected.

I have a lot of thoughts on this but they are a bit chaotic at the moment.

It is easy to see the real nasty power complex taking advantage of a "non' mainstream group like stormfront to recruit. Same with the Aryan Nation. Its history is something I would like to check out in detail one day. It reminds me in a way of the way fascists and Nazis consolidated their power in nazi Germany in the 30s, and in the rest of europe.

In specific ref to what O'brien said:

I think your initial response is the response that process she referred to(Aryan connections to abuse networks and their exposure) is designed to bring about.

I have had that very feeling myself on more than a few occasions. that cognitive loop thing.

Fascism is all about controlling discourse, and everything else of course.

i can see many advantages for those groups in controlling their own "outing" as it were.

You can see by the dogs breakfast nature of this reply how easy it is for groups in this position to confuse and confound.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:22 am

The ONLY people who have anything to gain by confounding anti-Zionism with antisemitism are Zionists. Period. It's true that I know nothing about those Stormfront people, or neo-Nazis or skinheads or whatever, but that whole movement strikes me as very contrived.

What are we looking at, here? A lot of ignorant people with bad teeth and greasy hair, many unemployed, hardly an economic, military or political force in the USA. The threads that link back to high positions in the government or military could just as easily be evidence that these "Aryans" are patsies, manipulated by the same people who gave the world Osama bin Laden and his 19 hijackers.

Blow away the fog of the antisemitism accusation, and Israel stands exposed as just what it is, a rogue, expansionist, Jewish-supremacist, terrorist state.

Just like if there is no "al-Qaeda", if the September 11 attacks were an inside job, then the US "War on Terror" is what it is, an imperialist aggression to achieve global hegemony through terrorism and bullying.

Israel NEEDS neo-Nazis just as the psychos in your government NEED the "Islamo-fascist global terrorist network" they invented and financed and set up.

It's not rocket science. Look at Israel and the US. Look at how ubiquitous they are, on all five continents, their enormous military power, their fingers in every global pie, whether in the arms trade, the World Bank, the IMF, CIA secret prisons, multi-national corporations, global media, at the highest levels of banking and global finance, the Russian mafia, international drug trade, you name it, the compelling, concrete, specific evidence that it is they, not "al-Qaeda" and not neo-Nazis, that maintain a truly global network of sleeper AND active cells.

I'm sorry, I'm just not willing to look at the birdie.

And for the record, just because I oppose neo-Nazis does not mean that I hate White people, any more than opposing Zionists means that I hate Jews. Neither does opposing male chauvinist pigs (or wife-batterers) mean that I hate men, nor that if I oppose pedophiles it means that I hate adults. For pete's sake.

It makes no sense at all, other than to illegitimately discredit and intimidate those who dare to oppose Zionism and stand up for its victims.
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Postby darkbeforedawn » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:27 am

Sometimes Israel means Israel, sometimes Zionist means Zionist. But sometimes it means something else. We need to know this, we need to become sensitive to the sometimes encrypted message, if we are to meet and defeat the true enemy. Because in every instance, Nazi means Nazi
YES
And part of the problem here is that the "question" of Israel is not questioned. We have been conditioned to see them as the "civilized" and "democratic" nation in a region otherwise barbaric.
In fact, this conclusion is almost the opposite of what appears to have been the case. Israel is a rogue and brutal mobocracy run by criminals yet temples and schuls contintue to jaw over Israel like it really is "holy" and people do not question the paradigm as Israel as a refuge and just retreat for "victims"
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