Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat May 20, 2023 1:24 pm

guruilla » Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:08 am wrote:Conspicuous silence to this:

Belligerent Savant wrote:

I welcome any commentary after viewing this video in its entirety, as time allows:


https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY



Kubrick: "Any fool can see I didn't fake the moon landing!"

"Why's that, Stanley?"

"Because it looks too god-damn fake, that's why!"

IMHO, the mystery isn't how "they" could perpetuate such a hoax; the mystery is how it took so long for people to notice, or how anyone can still deny it.

I was only two, so that's my excuse.


Re-sharing the above video in the event some here missed it initially or didn't find time to view it.

One of the more compelling portions of the video was towards the end, which included footage of the first press conference of the Apollo 11 astronauts after their reported historic landing and return from the moon. Far from excited or giddy, the mood was quite somber, almost as if a eulogy.

Noteworthy -- or curious -- that all three Apollo 11 astronauts officially 'retired' from NASA shortly after this mission, between 1970 - 1971.

Here's a youtube clip of the press conference, and a comment that I believe sums it up quite well:

Clip of Apollo 11 press conference



Genx Guy
5 years ago

I was stunned the first time that I saw these clips. The bizarre way Neil Armstrong spoke and behaved spoke volumes to me. He was obviously very uncomfortable and struggling with what he was saying. I think he felt ashamed about lying and he lived the rest of his life as a recluse basically and always carried the burden of such a monumental lie that, in my opinion, he was forced to tell. I think they were all honest and brave men when they signed up with NASA but not all of them remained that way. I think Neil was always afraid that the lie was going to be exposed at any moment and never embraced it the way Aldrin and some others did. When I watched this performance is when I realized they didn't actually go to the moon and it made me very sad.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby Harvey » Sun May 21, 2023 1:13 pm

I'm not a Moon Hoaxer although some of my best friends are. That said, this is like an out-take from Capricorn 1. I'm seeing a man sick at heart, betraying everything he believed. Not a triumphant return from the moon, I mean, he can't even speak of it, he can only allude to it.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:38 pm

.
Keeping in mind that this piece is in no way attempting to challenge the dominant narratives Re: space travel, etc., and that there is surely language in this piece that can be extracted/highlighted to bolster the consensus on this topic, it should raise eyebrows, regardless.

Most, if not all of us, already were aware of artistic renderings of space imagery.

As such, some may read this and utter a variation of 'nothing to see here, folks'. Others may see this as yet another kink in the apparent armor of this NASA storylines.

https://www.seeker.com/videos/space-inn ... reate-them
NASA Images Aren’t Always Real, This Is How Space Artists Create Them

Is your favorite picture of space actually a painting? Artist astronomers are behind many of the most famous images of the universe.
By Seeker


Published on 3/4/2018 at 10:09 AM

"I am a visualization scientist. I basically try to come up with ways of explaining complex science stories through the visuals, and developing artwork and illustrations that actually can help explain the science story to people."

For decades, popular culture and shows like Star Trek inspired a generation of scientists by envisioning what space might look like. But wait, what does space actually look like? Heart nebulas, celestial collisions, a bird's eye view of the Milky Way, astronomers are charting the outer reaches of the cosmos and bringing back jaw dropping images from telescopes like Hubble and its infrared cousin, Spitzer.

If you look down at the bottom of that Milky Way image, you’ll see these two words: artist concept. This sweeping image of the Orion Nebula, actually looks like this. And the Trappist-1 star system, the latest discovery of seven potentially habitable exoplanets that made national headlines is really only a box of grey and white pixels. You see, space art is part of NASA and it has been since before we went to the moon. You may remember our host Amy explored this in a previous episode. It inspired us to track down the scientist behind some of NASA’s most fascinating images.

Most space imagery begin with data - very, very complex data. And transforming these numbers and graphs into an image that captures the public’s imagination requires a delicate balance between science and art. And that is where Robert comes in. As an astronomer and an artist, Robert isn’t editing images so much as he’s making an artistic hypothesis grounded in facts, so we can visualize what’s really happening up there. And for objects we haven’t even seen yet, like Trappist-1, the artist rendition is a meticulous process.

"Once a result shows up, the first thing I'll do is get a copy of the paper and look over it. I just want to understand what is actually being presented as purely science. Then usually the next step is to contact the scientists involved in the research directly, and discuss with them how we might go about illustrating their results. The first day that I saw the data plot of the light curve from the Trappist 1 Star, my jaw dropped, it was just a force of deeps dips in the light curve, and we knew there was a whole flurry of activity."

This data doesn’t look like much to the untrained eye, but the depth of the dip reveals the size of the planet. And by studying tiny blips of light as the planets pass the star, otherwise known as the transit method, astronomers can tell that the exoplanets orbit close to its star. All of this information is critical so Robert can paint the right picture. "You can actually figure out how big the planet is, what its surface temperature would be, because of that proximity.This is a really tight close-in solar system, so that became an exciting angle that we wanted to take into the graphics as well. This is nothing like our own solar system."

To tell a big story like Trappist-1, Robert takes the scientific limitations seriously, because the wrong color could be very misleading. "Rendering an exo-planet with a bright green continents, would be crossing a line for us. We don't want to say, hey we found life on this planet and showing green really would communicate that. It’s enough to show some evidence of water. A lot of times, we've made special efforts to make the water not look super appealing, not like this tropical deep blue appearance. You would think that complete accuracy would be the goal when doing astronomical illustrations, but that isn’t always the case. The primary goal is communication and understanding."

Communicating space discoveries with art has a long and storied history. One of the fathers of modern space art was the famed Chesley Bonestell, a designer and illustrator. In the 1950s, he created an image of Saturn's moon Titan before Neil Armstrong took his first steps on the lunar surface. Carl Sagan once famously said of Chesley, “ I didn’t know what other worlds looked like until I saw Bonestell’s paintings.” His work was so widely acclaimed that his illustrations accompanied articles written by German rocket scientist Wernher von Braun, which ultimately inspired the American space program.

Having a visual response to technical triumphs was something NASA latched onto early on.

For over 50 years, NASA worked closely with artists and creative leaders, like Walt Disney and Norman Rockwell, to help shape the stories of spaceflight. It’s the same legacy today, just with more advanced scientific understanding and better tools to imagine what far off worlds might look like if we could visit them.

We want to take a lot of care to make sure that we don’t oversell parts of the story that isn’t actually part of the story. There are people who just look and think, oh NASA’s photographed a planet and they don’t understand that actually that was a piece of art. On the other hand, if we don’t do that, and don’t put a piece of compelling artwork, then people may never even look at the story anyway. We’re putting as much science as we can, of what we know today, and I like to think that in 50 years when people come back and look at the various pictures of exoplanets after maybe we actually finally know what they look like, they might wink and smile to each other, oh that’s so funny, they thought there was water on that one -- But also appreciate this is a historical record of how our understanding of these planets has changed over time.

Turns out, 50 years later was an overestimate. So much of what we thought we knew about Trappist-1 just changed. Which means Robert had to get back to the drawing board and quickly re-do the artwork for these exoplanets. Robert described the changes during a Facebook live event, and for him, density was a game changer.

"For astronomers we literally know of thousands of exoplanets but these are the only seven that we have the precise measurements of the mass, and from that the density. And density for astronomers is incredibly important because that’s the first step to deciding what they’re actually made of."

Knowing the densities changed our understanding of what the Trappist-1 planets looked like. For instance, back in 2017, scientists thought planet d was rocky. But turns out, it has the lowest density of the seven, and it’s actually a water world. And for planet e, Robert and his team thought it was a watery planet, but it’s actually super rocky and has the same density as Earth! Meaning, Planet e is the most earth-like planet we know yet. We’re a long way away from sending a spacecraft to Trappist-1, without warp drive of course. So for now, the artwork will continue to stand as our best guess.


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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby drstrangelove » Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:43 pm

the shift from film to digital in documenting sensory experience has been fucking with me recently as it was a shift from irrational reality to rational reality. everything converted into a digital signal is formed of perfectly whole numbers - 1s or 0s. which makes digital images perfectly rational. but we know reality isn't rational because of irrational numbers. which would be why we lose sensory 'quality' when converting from analogue to digital in both video and audio as digital shaves off the rough edges of reality the tactile nature of analogue captures.

technically the moon landing footage isn't real even according to the official story as it was transmitted back to earth as a signal in 1s and 0s. the only thing worth verifying would be highly detailed analogue stills processed and developed from the film reels brought back with the astronauts.

the best counter-point to the hoax argument is that the footage was faked but the landing was real. the fake footage prerecorded to ensure they had something to air in case the real landing itself couldn't be transmitted live. or rather, perhaps a genuine attempt was made but the mission failed. the apollo 11 team arrived back on earth distraught only to learn in the debriefing room from some spook that the success of the mission was a matter of national security and too critical to leave to chance and that prerecorded mission successful contingency footage of them landing had been aired. can't see how they wouldn't have to go along with it.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby fruhmenschen » Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:19 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwkXZ0SmTs


Gil Scott-Heron Whitey on the moon.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:30 pm

Ever wonder why, with the Moon just sitting there (and representing an important military asset), no public or private entity in the US has (supposedly) ever even attempted to land even a single unmanned or manned lander or robot of any kind on the Moon in over 50 years?

With all the billions that the USA has secretly spent on military over the last 50 years, can this possibly be true? And, if not, what did our many secret (manned and/or unmanned) missions to Moon uncover?

After 50 years, US to return to moon on January 25

More than 50 years after the last Apollo mission, the United States will try once again to land a craft on the moon on January 25, said the head of what could be the first private company to successfully touch down on the lunar surface.

The lander, named Peregrine, will have no one on board. It was developed by American company Astrobotic, whose CEO John Thornton said it will carry NASA instruments to study the lunar environment in anticipation of NASA's Artemis manned missions.

Several years ago, NASA opted to commission US companies to send scientific experiments and technologies to the moon—a program called CLPS.

These fixed-price contracts should make it possible to develop a lunar economy, and provide transport services at a lower cost.

"One of the big challenges of what we're attempting here is attempting a launch and landing on the surface moon for a fraction of what it would otherwise cost," said Thornton Wednesday at a press briefing at his company's base in in Pittsburgh.

"Only about half of the missions that have gone to the surface of the moon have been successful," he said.

"So it's certainly a daunting challenge. I'm going to be terrified and thrilled all at once at every stage of this."

Takeoff is scheduled for December 24 from Florida aboard the inaugural flight of the new rocket from the ULA industrial group, named Vulcan Centaur.

The probe will then take "a few days" to reach lunar orbit, but will have to wait until January 25 before attempting landing, so that light conditions at the target location are right, Thornton said.

The descent will be carried out autonomously, without human intervention, but will be monitored from the company's control center.

In the spring, the Japanese start-up ispace had already attempted to become the first private company to land on the moon, but the mission ended in a crash. Israel also suffered a setback in 2019. Only four countries have successfully landed on the moon: the United States, Russia, China and, most recently, India.

In addition to Astrobotic, NASA has signed contracts with other companies, such as Firefly Aerospace, Draper and Intuitive Machines.

The latter is due to take off aboard a SpaceX rocket in January.

"NASA leadership is aware of the risks and has accepted that some of these missions might not succeed," said Chris Culbert, the CLPS program manager.

"But even if every landing isn't successful, CLPS already had an impact on the commercial infrastructure needed to establish a lunar economy," he said.

With its Artemis program, NASA wants to establish a base on the surface of the moon.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:03 pm

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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby DrEvil » Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:16 pm

stickdog99 » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:30 pm wrote:Ever wonder why, with the Moon just sitting there (and representing an important military asset), no public or private entity in the US has (supposedly) ever even attempted to land even a single unmanned or manned lander or robot of any kind on the Moon in over 50 years?

With all the billions that the USA has secretly spent on military over the last 50 years, can this possibly be true? And, if not, what did our many secret (manned and/or unmanned) missions to Moon uncover?


You've claimed the Moon is an important military asset before, but I can't remember you being able to give a good answer as to why. So why? There's nothing there to protect, and it's too far from Earth to be of any use in a conflict here.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby BenDhyan » Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:57 pm

stickdog99 » Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:30 am wrote:Ever wonder why, with the Moon just sitting there (and representing an important military asset), no public or private entity in the US has (supposedly) ever even attempted to land even a single unmanned or manned lander or robot of any kind on the Moon in over 50 years?

Note that that here were two missions within the last 50 years that did involve crashing modules into the moon that were studied by NASA;.

!998 NASA's Lunar Prospector orbited the Moon for almost 19 months to map its surface composition and to look for polar ice. The probe found evidence suggesting water ice at both poles. The mission ended with the spacecraft impacting the lunar surface, creating a dust cloud that was studied from Earth.

2009 The NASA LCROSS mission included impacting the Centaur upper stage on the surface of the Moon and then flying LCROSS through the debris plume about four minutes later to collect data on the soil. LCROSS also would impact a little later.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:38 pm

It's a little bizarre to me that here on Rigorous Intuition, mere speculation that the US military-intelligence complex may have made at least one "top secret" mission to Moon over the last 50 years would be subject to any sort of questioning.

So I guess everything the US military has done over the past 50 has been totally out in the open. That's why Assange is in prison today!

And the Pentagon probably just noticed a year or two ago that the Moon was a military target.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby BenDhyan » Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:02 pm

stickdog99 » Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:38 am wrote:It's a little bizarre to me that here on Rigorous Intuition, mere speculation that the US military-intelligence complex may have made at least one "top secret" mission to Moon over the last 50 years would be subject to any sort of questioning.

So I guess everything the US military has done over the past 50 has been totally out in the open. That's why Assange is in prison today!

And the Pentagon probably just noticed a year or two ago that the Moon was a military target.

Stickdog, the space industry started with the military, and continues. NASA is the unclassified front of the space industry, but the military intel get to see everything first to determine what is to be not 'unclassified'. So naturally there are military secrets pertaining to the moon, but also practically all else where interesting discoveries are made, Mars, Asteroids, etc., it is a given.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:04 pm

Of course. But thanks for the confirmation.
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby Grizzly » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:29 am

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/1 ... n-00016818

Moon battle: New Space Force plans raise fears over militarizing the lunar surface
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:59 pm

The Guardian: Why landing on the moon is proving more difficult today than 50 years ago

Moon mission records provide a clue as to why getting to the lunar surface remains far from straightforward
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Re: Moon landings---a partial 'hoax'?

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:52 am

stickdog99 » Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:38 am wrote:It's a little bizarre to me that here on Rigorous Intuition, mere speculation that the US military-intelligence complex may have made at least one "top secret" mission to Moon over the last 50 years would be subject to any sort of questioning.

So I guess everything the US military has done over the past 50 has been totally out in the open. That's why Assange is in prison today!

And the Pentagon probably just noticed a year or two ago that the Moon was a military target.


I wasn't questioning any top secret missions to the Moon, they would be secret so I wouldn't know about them. What I was asking was why the military would have any interest during the last fifty years when there's nothing of note there. There's nothing to protect or attack, and it's 239,000 miles away. Why would they send a secret mission to the Moon? What would be the point? What could they possibly learn or do that they didn't already with the "civilian" landings (all the astronauts were military)?

They're starting to show an interest now because China is (and because the Space Force needs to justify their budget), so soon(ish) there might be a point to their presence, but that wasn't the case until very recently (can't have a cold war without a space race).
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