New Disney flick lead voice-over is Patton Oswald (JFK time)

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Postby orz » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:37 pm

No, obviously Disney have historically been involved in propaganda efforts, and continue to put out reactionary and pro-war messages etc.

Also obviously, you are a nut if you really believe pixar make their casting decisions based on the actor's names.
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Nesting.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:39 pm

orz wrote:
So, yes, it would be very easy for Disney to do JFK propaganda (again)

Yes it would. Thing is, they'd do that by making some propaganda relating to JFK, not by hiring a voice actor with the name oswa.... FORGET IT.


No, the most effective propaganda is INDIRECT. The covert message or steering device is NESTED inside overt topics so that it gets past cognitive filters and into the subconscious like product placement in movies.

That's precisely why keeping the name of the patsy, OSWALD, in the public domain serves to reinforce the lie that he killed JFK.

That's not too complex, orz. That's how conditioning and suggestion work.
Propaganda 101, fer pete's sake.

And see my response to you about distinguishing KH from common commercial wordplay-
>cover up value
>timing correlation
>and for Disney I'd have to add track record.

Both of these attributes are strong with the already-begun disinfo season for the 45th anniversary of 11/22.
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Postby orz » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:46 pm

Yeah but some people are actually called Oswald.

Your theories are useless because there's no way to distinguish unintenitional use of a common word from propaganda use, so you fall into the trap of assuming that since the entire CIA/media are evil, everything they do must be propaganda, and thus you can just paranoically collect 'keywords' anywhere and everywhere.
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Postby philipacentaur » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:51 pm

Dis is riticulous.
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Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:40 pm

philipacentaur wrote:Dis is riticulous.


I absolutely concur 100%. Nevertheless, I find myself giddy that Hugh has "The Black Hole: Discovery of the Mystery Ship" in his conspiracy theorist's library. In, through and beyond Hugh!

I want to see Hugh connect the popularity of the Atari 2600 in the late 1970s/early 1980s to some kind of social engineering black ops program. If anyone can make the attempt it's Hugh.

I like Hugh but I think he's totally mistaken about most of his Hollywood social engineering theories. The machine doesn't work like that; they're more concerned about who is friends/relatives with who and how to make a buck off of the masses than with social engineering.

Everyone's biggest concern over "The Black Hole" should be the simplistic representation of a ultra-superdense star as a tear in space that opens a portal to another dimension where space babe Yvette Mimieux and a robot that sounds like Roddy McDonald greet you.

Hey Hugh, at further risk of derailing this conversation, what ominous design do you think went into the creation of an action figure for kids based on H.R. Giger's "Alien" back in 1979? I personally don't think the gang in the secret backroom had any involvement, just some crazy toy CEO that thought they had the next Chewbacca action figure instead of a nightmare that lept out of John Hurt's chest.

Business decisions can sometimes be stranger to decipher than believing it's all a secret plan orchestrated by The Powers That Be.
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Postby orz » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:13 pm

Hugh, please explain to me EXACTLY HOW the CIA could possible ensure that Pixar would hire a specific actor. Are John Lasseter and Brad Bird "in on it"? How could the CIA possibly be sure to override one of the most important creative decisions in the film?
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Hiring. Disney video division- "Propaganda Games"!

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:25 pm

orz wrote:Hugh, please explain to me EXACTLY HOW the CIA could possible ensure that Pixar would hire a specific actor. Are John Lasseter and Brad Bird "in on it"? How could the CIA possibly be sure to override one of the most important creative decisions in the film?


Disney has been almost indistinguishable from the culture war divisions of the USG for decades.

You really think that some chain of honcho decision makers couldn't get a specific guy in a slot? How about giving that comic a helping hand with his career to move him into the industry and then offering the slot?

I'm not sure why you have the idea that: here's the CIA (shorthand for culture warriors) wayyy over here and now here's Disney/Pixar waaaaaay over here.

Decades of infiltration and buy-outs and hiring have made the disinfotainment industry LED by USG culture warriors, not just cooperative assets, although that logically is the case, too.

So there are two models: outright ownership /control and finger-in-the-pie assets.
DOH! This second NPR is now promoting 'Ratatouille' as I type this. Market leaders are powerful agenda setters and catchword creators and symbol-sellers and...on and on.

You asked (jokingly) about Atari. The AMA just stepped back from declaring video game overuse a bonified clinical addiction. But they are warning parents.

And Disney is even co-opting exposure of their role in USG psy-ops by ADVERTISING IT-

http://propagandagames.go.com/propaganda/studio_bios.html

Propaganda Games
2006 Disney Interactive Studios


http://propagandagames.go.com/propaganda/dias_disney.html

Disney Interactive Studios, the interactive entertainment affiliate of The Walt Disney Company, has created video game products that have sold millions of copies in all major markets around the world. For more than a decade, Disney Interactive Studios has enjoyed global successes on a variety of video game platforms, including the personal computer, handheld video game platforms and video game consoles.

Video games from Disney Interactive Studios are inspired by intellectual property (IP) from The Walt Disney Company and its subsidiaries, and from original IP created by Disney Interactive Studios.

Disney Interactive Studios’s game development studios include Propaganda Games, Avalanche Software, Climax Racing and Fall Line Studio.


http://propagandagames.go.com/games/

Turok is a story-driven first-person shooter heavy on the jungle survival and killer dinosaurs. We're emphasizing a great story, unforgettable characters and topnotch gameplay. Every one us at Propaganda loves games, so we know the difference between the games that keep you up all night, and the games that quickly get resold on Craigslist.

Disney Interactive Studios acquired the rights to Turok in 2005 and awarded development to Propaganda Games.


Speaking of first person shooter games, did you see the plot blurb for the movie now on video store shelves called 'The Shooter?'

It is one of a number of reinforcements of the meme 'lone gunman' out recently like that Brit mockumentary about a sniper getting W called 'Death of a President'-
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/
Image

Or the History Channel's show about a plot to shoot Nixon-
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809882901/info

It's another framing set-up of the Lee Harvey Oswald story only it says he is...The Shooter.
Image

The Shooter plot keywords:
"former Marine"
"plot against the president"
"Bob Lee Swagger"

Might as well be a repeat of that faked photo of Oswald with a gun in his backyard-
Image

Do you think this movie is just a coincidence? The target audience (pun intended) is 14-24 and they don't know the whole CIA plot behind the murder of JFK.

My guide to KH-
>cover up value
>timing
>precedent

Yup. It fits.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:46 pm

The Shooter plot keywords:
"former Marine"
"plot against the president"
"Bob Lee Swagger"


Given that in many people's mind JFK is associated with Oswald,(even in the minds of people who believe Oswald didn't kill him) couldn't the above simply be a case of using a similar process to the one you mention hugh, as a marketing ploy?

IE Subliminally (almost subliminally anyway), the association of Lee, formr marine and plot against a president rings bells in people's mind and they think "Well maybe that would be an interesting movie".
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Viral marketing and PREVENTION of it.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:07 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Given that in many people's mind JFK is associated with Oswald,(even in the minds of people who believe Oswald didn't kill him) couldn't the above simply be a case of using a similar process to the one you mention hugh, as a marketing ploy?

IE Subliminally (almost subliminally anyway), the association of Lee, formr marine and plot against a president rings bells in people's mind and they think "Well maybe that would be an interesting movie".


Sure, there's opportunistic marketing as I wrote about Disney's 'Pirates' narrative being imitated by other children's authors and thus amplified.

But most people don't actually watch a given movie. They just get associations triggered (pun intended) by the title and poster. So even though the plot of 'The Shooter' has the lead figure as hero (I think) the net effect on our culture comes from the title and poster, the cover and not the book.

Another example to ponder about the PREVENTION of viral marketing by keyword hijacking:

I wonder if McDonald's is being *just clever or complicit* as they place their ad campaign in Spanish for a 42 ounce drink (!) with the huge word on the side of buses in my city that say, "HUGO."....as in Chavez, of course.

Why a 42 oz drink now?
That's an absurd product, isn't it?..."HUGO."

Could McDonald's be exploiting the good will attached to "Hugo" for many Spanish-speaking Americans? Sure. But if they are, that still serves the PTB by diluting the emotive effect that was previously a populist leader instead of now also an American corporation's toxic product.

So either way, *just clever or complicit,* the McDonald's use of the keyword "Hugo" is a lose for Chavez and a win for McDonald's.

Recall that I wrote that the movie 'Nacho Libre' was titled that to prevent it being a used as as slogan about a jailed Mexican social activist named Nacho del Valle. No one can spray paint IN SPANISH the equivalent of 'Free Bobby' or 'Free Leonard' to highlight this man's plight, can they? It will just seem like a Jack Black movie ad.

And now the same exact dynamic has just hijacked the name of the biggest political hero in South America, HUGO Chavez, the man who said at the UN that W smelled of sulpher.

Think there would be an effort to prevent 'HUGO-ism' from spreading easily?
I do. The Pentagon wants to recruit Hispanics because the usual staple of the poverty draft, black America, isn't signing up anymore.

Think there is a pattern here?

>Cover up value
>Timing
>Precedent.

I think so. Spanish-speaking Americans are being directed away from Hugo Chavez just as they were directed away from Nacho del Valle through the simple mechanism of keyword hijacking, a form of definition claim-jumping.

Best-case scenario for the hijackers: Their definition is the only one perceived.
Worst-case scenario for the hijackers: Their definition competes with the other one.

That's a pretty good deal for the psy-ops boys and worth deploying.
Last edited by Hugh Manatee Wins on Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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fee fi fo fannee...

Postby robert d reed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:16 am

Once I managed to get over being traumatized by the terminology of "Abort/Fail/Retry/" etc.- the handiwork of foundational computer programmers who were either obvious nihilists, or ten-thumbed, clueless verbal communicators- the dire stratagems of "keyword hijacking" have, over time, proved increasingly ineffective on me.

Still trying to figure out the ultimate significance of the name of that author Philip K. Whatsizname in the Grand Scheme of things, though...

I can almost hear the voice of Etta James, asking "how'd you have a name like that?"
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Re: fee fi fo fannee...

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:31 am

robert d reed wrote:Still trying to figure out the ultimate significance of the name of that author Philip K. Whatsizname in the Grand Scheme of things, though...

I can almost hear the voice of Etta James, asking "how'd you have a name like that?"


I identified with a Johnny Cash song from my childhood of being harassed on the playground, 'A Boy Named Sue.'

Frank Zappa lost patience with interviewers who just wanted to ask him why he named his daughter Moon Unit. "Didn't you think she might have a hard time with a name like that?"

"I think she'd have a harder time if I named her 'Mary.'"

Words are paths. They lead places.
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Postby robert d reed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:55 am

Words are not paths.

To the extent that "paths" mean anything in the context of language, they exist in between the words.

But "path" really isn't an apt metaphor...unlike the more or less invariable linearity of a pathway, language is elastic and contextual. Reading comprehension involves much more than merely detecting a progression of markers and boundary outlines through a set of unmarked states.
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Context.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:51 am

robert d reed wrote:language is elastic and contextual. Reading comprehension involves much more than merely detecting a progression of markers and boundary outlines through a set of unmarked states.


Yes, context is critical to meaning and that's why I put it as my profiled 'location.'

The context that I have found to be consistent since WWII is the National inSecurity State context of promoting war, national cohesion, maintaining predictable behaviors, and protecting the reputation of the govenment and the concept of authority with conditioning and counterpropaganda to neutralize hostile information.

That is why when others suggest that words could just have any old meaning that is case-specific I reiterate the issues that the PTB are most concerned with and their use of media assets to create psycho-political events supported by behavioral research.

Movies come out at a specific time in history. They don't just operate in a vacuum. They have a place in something like a long news cycle.

Context, indeed. Military media, not merely corporate.
Carrying out Stability Operations is job one, not mere commerce.
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Postby robert d reed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:06 am

The context that I have found to be consistent since WWII is the National inSecurity State context of promoting war, national cohesion, maintaining predictable behaviors, and protecting the reputation of the govenment and the concept of authority with conditioning and counterpropaganda to neutralize hostile information.


Hugh, given that you're fixated on the idea that you've found THE context, I don't find anything revelatory about your findings.
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Postby brownzeroed » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:12 am

Joe Hillshoist
Given that in many people's mind JFK is associated with Oswald,(even in the minds of people who believe Oswald didn't kill him) couldn't the above simply be a case of using a similar process to the one you mention hugh, as a marketing ploy?


Yes, Joe. On the money. And if HUGH actually WATCHED the film he would know it was actually about this:
From IMDB:

A marksman (Wahlberg) living in exile is coaxed back into action after learning of a plot to kill the president. Ultimately double-crossed and framed for the attempt, he goes on the run to track the real killer and find out who exactly set him up, and why.


That is why they fashioned him to look like Oswald. Antoine Fuqua and Jonathon Lemkin would probably beg to differ with HUGH's assumptions.
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