1962 Gulf of Tonkin LIMPET op = 1964 'Incredible Mr. Limpet'

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Postby orz » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:58 pm

She was causing trouble for patriarchal recruiting as early as 1960.

So they named a TV show after her! That'll show 'em! :roll: Hugh, I don't know what to do but repeat myself: the claims you make here are ludicrously elabrate and unfeasible especially for such miniscule/nonexistant gain.

Gilligan is a name. Lots of people have the same name. They do all sorts of different things for different reasons, some of which other people may not like. Deal with it.

Here's how pan would deny invading Iraq was about oil:
I doubt he would. The difference is that invading Iraq for oil is a definable goal which makes sense in the real world. Naming characters in a TV show the same as some totally unrelated academic writers in the vague hope that a few people might get confused in some way is not.

The two dancers stop in the middle of the gym floor right on some basketball court lines that look exactly like a bullseye.

When all you have is a hammer...

(but no, of course, you're right; the set dressers, cinematographer, director, choreographer, rules of cinematic composition, inventors of the game of basketball etc etc etc are all controlled by the CIA. No human being in Hollywood is capable of any independent creative decision, or of basing their artwork on the issues of the day.)
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The 1962 Auschwitz clown project.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:20 pm

orz wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Clown_Cried


Orz produces!

The controversial 1972 Jerry Lewis as Auschwitz clown movie, 'The Day the Clown Cried,' was based on a 1962 book.

That fits with the post-May, 1960 anxiety over the Gehlen Organization that the capture of Adolph Eichmann began and which built up during the 1963-1965 Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt, W. Germany.

1962 was also the year of a movie called 'Austerlitz' and the same producers tricked Orson Welles into making a 1963 version of Kafka's 'The Trial.'

So why was Jerry Lewis ensnared in the Auschwitz clown project in 1972?
He had already been used to create a palliative for Dealey Plaza back when he was still a #1 box office draw with 1964's 'The Patsy.'

In 1972 Nixon was running for re-election and columnist Jack Anderson outed Nixon's ties to immigrant Nazis dialed into the Republican party. And Nixon ignored the public outing because he needed those old Nazis to win.

So perhaps another 'Nazi-problem' deflection move was started up using Jerry Lewis's sense of altruism to hook him in it.

The wikipedia info in the link orz posted supports this as likely.

Shearer also goes on to point out why Lewis would make the film: he believed "the Academy can't ignore this." Upon seeing the rough cut, he told Lewis the film was "terrible," which reportedly made him furious. When asked to sum up the experience of the film overall, he responded by saying that the closest he could come was like "if you flew down to Tijuana and suddenly saw a painting on black velvet of Auschwitz. You'd just think 'My God, wait a minute! It's not funny, and it's not good, and somebody's trying too hard in the wrong direction to convey this strongly-held feeling."


But back in 1962 when the book was originally written Jerry Lewis was a #1 box office draw so it might have been created with him in mind to get it to all those American kids.
Just like the Johnson Group's decoy movie called 'Paper Clips.'

The Auschwitz clown project echoed again in the early 1980s because of another US-Nazi PR problem in Bolivia.
In the early-1980s, Jim Wright revealed to the press of his plan to produce a new version of "The Day the Clown Cried", and he mentioned he had Richard Burton in mind for the title role. Despite major buzz about the project, nothing concrete came through the planning stages.


CIA's Nazi asset named Klaus Barbie and CIA-protected cocaine moguls staged a coup in Bolivia and DEA agent Michael Levine tried to blow the whistle but he sent his letter to Newsweek which is owned by the Washington Post, Operation Mockingbird's home base.

This is why we also got the movie series starring Indiana Jones who fought Nazis starting in 1981. Another is being filmed right now at Yale, speaking of Nazis.
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Postby orz » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:27 pm

Thought you'd like that one! :)

I very much object to the idea that anyone ever "tricked" Orson Welles into making a film... :roll:
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Re: Here on Gilligan's Island. Carol Gilligan, that is.

Postby jingofever » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:39 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Yes, there is reason to doubt that Shulman originated the name "Krebs." Did someone else give it to him?


No?

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Don Knotts said in an interview that the producer of 'The Incredible Mr. Limpet' told him it was an idea he'd kicked around for years. And that wasn't true. It was a direct reaction to US divers getting put on trial in Hanoi for terrorism and harassment called Operation Vulcan. Bet you'll find a cover story for how 'Vulcan' came to be on Star Trek as a "fascinating" new culture to American kids, too.

No, my covert context for the names is much stronger than unconfirmed say-so second-hand, especially with the Don Knotts example I cited.


Your unfounded speculation is stronger than the statements and recollection of people directly involved with the production?

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Don't just go by paper publishing dates. And even those confirm what I wrote.
She was causing trouble for patriarchal recruiting as early as 1960.


Perhaps she was, but I can't find it. Maybe you can share?

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:She was published in 1964 as co-author of a paper in the CIA's own MKULTRA platform, 'Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology'-!!!!

Look at page 5 of her cv- papers on "delayed gratification" or why youth choose to enlist or not.
Look at her 1964 papers.
AND SHE DID BECOME JUST THE SUPERSTAR THEY FEARED.


I did look at that page. I didn't see that her "delayed gratification" paper was about or influenced by young men enlisting in the military. This is what I found out about that paper:

It is not known how heritable the ability to defer gratification is, although most personality variables appear to have a significant degree of heritability. However, in one experiment, using Barbadian Negroes in the Cambridge area, the mother's delay of gratification (choice of large bottle of instant coffee in a week or a small bottle now) was found to be correlated with the child's violating or not violating a prohibition in a temptation situation (Mischel & Gilligan, 1964, p. 412). This suggests both behaviors are reflecting a heritable trait.

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Confirmation? Hell, yes. She was big and became bigger.

She was a star from the very beginning of her academic career and was PRE-EMPTED when she hit a dangerous threshold within her field. Her work was being accepted, published, and she was working with THE superstar, Erik Erikson, who has the status of Freud in his field.


Was there a "Gilligan's Theory" before or after "Gilligan's Island"? And consider that the pilot for "Gilligan's Island" was filmed in 1963. In fact it was finished on November 22.

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Because I DID read it and jingofever was wrong on Carol Gillgan's chronology.


Where am I wrong? Don't just say I'm wrong, show me.

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Besides, who the hell is responsible for BobDenver.com?


My first guess was the CIA but when you go to bobdenver.com you will see at the top that the "Denver Foundation" owns and operates the website.
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Another source.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:49 pm

Just for the photo, oy.

Image

Another source on the Jerry Lewis-Nazi connection has another narrative to consider as true, partly true, false, or true but without the US government politics that underlies it.

The other CIA-Nazi-related disinfotainment projects spell out a pattern that I think is clear behind this legenendary and controversial project.

Co-author Charles Denton went on to be a big honcho at BBC.

http://www.filmbuffonline.com/ReadingRoom/DayTheClownCriedReview.htm

The Day The Clown Cried had its origin with publicity agent Joan O’Brien who conceived the story while working for famous sad-eyed clown Emmett Kelly and spending her free time reading about the Holocaust. Teaming with TV critic Charles Denton, O’Brien penned a screenplay about an unlikable gentile circus clown named Karl Schmidt who, after being caught satirizing Hitler by members of the SS, is sent to Auschwitz and forced to lead unsuspecting Jewish children to the gas chamber.

The script made the usual Hollywood rounds and at various points had reportedly been considered by such names as Dick Van Dyke, Milton Berle and Austrian-born Joseph Schildkraut.


Was the 1971 initiation of restarting the Auschwitz clown project based on Nixon's Nazi vulnerability which briefly erupted in 1972?

Wachsberg sweetened the deal by telling Lewis that he had secured financing from French and Swedish backers and the filming would use the resources of Europa Studios in Stockholm, where Ingmar Bergman had shot several films. Lewis finally agreed and the August 1st, 1971 issue of Variety announced that Jerry Lewis Productions and Wachsberg were joining forces to produce The Day The Clown Cried with a start date of sometime later in the year.


The review describes how Lewis put himself through physical hell and practically became the role while trying to finish the film in the face of adversity.

The review even cites the possibility that it was meant to be bad, a device used in Mel Brooks' 'The Producers.' Hmmm....

When approaching the script, one has to remain in the frame of mind that this will not be The Nutty Professor Goes To Auschwitz. This was not an attempt to do a comedy set against the backdrop of the horrors of war, something that was adroitly handled on TV’s Hogan’s Heroes.


And there is the ultimate success by CBS-CIA in giving American's funny Nazis in primetime TV viewing.
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Postby orz » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:50 pm

Your unfounded speculation is stronger than the statements and recollection of people directly involved with the production?

Do you really have to ask? :lol:
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Postby orz » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:56 pm

And there is the ultimate success by CBS-CIA in giving American's funny Nazis in primetime TV viewing.

And?

So?

That's their big success?

What would happen if they had not succeded in this?
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Postby streeb » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:01 pm

Hugh, can you name one film from the past 60 years that wasn't diabolically conceived by the CIA?

How about Shakes the Clown?
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Goebbels knew.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:37 pm

streeb wrote:Hugh, can you name one film from the past 60 years that wasn't diabolically conceived by the CIA?


'200 Motels.'

How about Shakes the Clown?


Hey, leave Bobcat outta this. A fave of mine.
I love the bar the free-lance agency clowns hang out in called 'The Twisted Balloon.'

The Boston Globe called it "The Citizen Kane of alcoholic clown movies."
But only because Jerry's film hasn't been released.
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Postby streeb » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:03 pm

I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't actually seen Shakes the Clown, but I like Bobcat too.

200 Motels, eh?

Not entirely related: a friend of mine is researching a dude called Michael Viner, who produced an album called Bongo Rock in the early 70s. One of the tracks from Bongo Rock, a version of "Apache" to be precise, ended up yielding one of the most sampled breakbeats in history.

Viner also helped score a film called The Thing with Two Heads, which I own and love. It stars Rosie Grier. Michael Viner and Rosie Grier both wrestled Sirhan Sirhan to the ground after he didn't shoot RFK.

Viner got into publishing eventually, as the president of Dove Books. One of his titles was Faye Resnick's tell-all during the OJ trial. Also prominent in the OJ trial, of course, was Rosie Grier, who testified on behalf of the prosecution. This is interesting if you think that OJ was meant to be a fall guy.

Viner also spent some time working at the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service, in DC.

Rosie Grier likes to do needle point.

I have no conclusions to make here. But it's a fairly suggestive little web of details (aside from the needle point)

I have made my friend completely mental with this stuff. He has no time for rabbit holes. He just weanted to write a nice story about hip-hop
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Postby sandymac » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:27 pm

Thanks Hugh, I appreciate what you're saying. I see the propaganda everywhere and constantly. I absolutely can’t watch TV anymore at all. Even with a friend, I get antsy and have to leave the room. It’s like the proverbial fingernails on the blackboard syndrome for me. Same is true for the “popular” movies.

Your thesis makes sense to me because Yours, Mine, and Ours is so stupid and insipid and boring. Perfect for mesmerizing and hoodwinking the audience. Same holds for The Incredible Mr. Limpet. Ghastly. They certainly weren’t made as an art form.

Professor, when talking about psychology and mental illness, do you mean the psychology you learned from traditional education? That other programming mechanism? We as humans are bombarded from the day we’re born – programmed, conditioned, domesticated, lied to, abused, misdirected, etc etc. We’re basically brainwashed and manipulated by our parents, religious figures, teachers, military commanders, prison guards, financial experts, politicians, etc. Who is mentally ill and who is sane among the insane? Those who ‘succeed’ are those who are convinced that capitalism, competition, and consumer society are the only norms.

From the time we’re children, we’re told not to believe anything that comes to our minds naturally. We’re taught not to believe what we see with our eyes and hear with our ears. The massive media machine is constantly adjusting our perception to align us with their agenda items.

I’ve recently been in a new Chuckee Cheese pizza restaurant. It’s very modern with 3 large TV screens. I was amazed to hear some beautiful, soothing music. I looked up and watched the 3 big screens. As the music played, I watched stark, white icebergs and glaciers amid beautiful, blue ocean. Suddenly, while the soothing music played, pieces of the icebergs and glaciers suddenly broke off and crashed into the ocean, floating away. One interpretation might be - soothing music showing the children and families that, basically, the melting and breaking apart of the polar ice caps is good, or at least, normal. We’ll probably end up with some sort of penguin adoption program.

It reminds me of the NASA ‘science program’ to have school age children go outside and count the “contrails and vapor trails” they see in the sky on any particular day or week. One interpretation might be that this would condition the children to see “chemtrails” as normal.

From the NASA Student Features Program:
"We're looking for special clouds called contrails.
We want students, teachers and parents all over the world to report the number of contrails in the sky....
Contrails look like white lines in the sky"
http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudent ... s_5-8.html

And that’s not to mention the little green dancing alien beings who now prance away on my ATT/Yahoo email page, advertising mortgage rates. Programming, conditioning, domesticating, hypnotizing, mesmerizing, deceiving, hoodwinking, terrorizing, and, of course, the ever present lies, lies, lies.

I think this is more than “keyword” hijacking. I see it as “word, phrase, dream, image, idea, sound, thought, memory” hijacking, perhaps.

Nothing more than normal psychological operations.

Stanley Kubrick, Phillip K Dick, et al.

Do not get me started on Jerry Lewis.
Tender is the night.
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Postby robert d reed » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:05 pm

Horse crap.

You're tacitly making the claim that the discipline of psychology has no objective basis or merit, that it's all simply a power trip.
Look, I realize that there's a potential for psychology to be abused. It's an academic discipline that calls itself a "science", although in my opinion that's only true for some of its subdisciplines. It sometimes falls prey to reductionism and pomposity, pretending to know more about the workings of the human mind that it has the capability to find out. It's one of the most politicized of academic disciplines- even moreso than History, or evolutionary biology.

But the academic discipline of psychological study does have a record of expanding knowledge. It isn't merely something set up by the Establishment to help confuse people and leave them to dwell in ignorance, by programming them with models that draw blame away from the Social Controllers of the CIA (per HMW.)

More generally, you're making that assertion about academic education and scholastics itself- that acquiring knowledge through partaking of any contact with the institutions of society amounts to nothing more than allowing oneself to be programmed.

We as humans are bombarded from the day we’re born – programmed, conditioned, domesticated, lied to, abused, misdirected, etc etc. We’re basically brainwashed and manipulated by our parents, religious figures, teachers, military commanders, prison guards, financial experts, politicians, etc. Who is mentally ill and who is sane among the insane? Those who ‘succeed’ are those who are convinced that capitalism, competition, and consumer society are the only norms.

From the time we’re children, we’re told not to believe anything that comes to our minds naturally. We’re taught not to believe what we see with our eyes and hear with our ears. The massive media machine is constantly adjusting our perception to align us with their agenda items.


There's this faculty known as "thinking for yourself." It's possible to use the faculty to interface with the outside world- or "programming" as you would have it, in order to to challenge it, to extract information of value from it, to assent to it, resist it, disregard it. To winnow, to take what you need, and let the rest go by.

Who is mentally ill and who is sane among the insane?


I can't tell in you're really asking a question or simply indulging in rhetorical hand-wringing. It sounds to me as if you might share some sympathy with the ideas of R. D. Laing, a psychologist who found acclaim for a brief period in the 1960s, before his audience unpacked his ideas, and pretty much found empty suitcases.

Those who ‘succeed’ are those who are convinced that capitalism, competition, and consumer society are the only norms.


Wow, talk about "internalizing the oppressor"...why buy into that? Why insist, or continue to spread the notion that everybody does? Soul is you, big shot. Success is your call.

Have you ever...?...not necessarily st...aw, never mind...

"He knew what could have been."
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Postby orz » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:19 am

Thanks Hugh, I appreciate what you're saying. I see the propaganda everywhere and constantly.

So do I, which is why I reject much of what Hugh's saying. It doesn't tally with the clearly real examples of propaganda that are all around us.
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Re: Here on Gilligan's Island. Carol Gilligan, that is.

Postby jingofever » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:18 pm

jingofever wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:She was published in 1964 as co-author of a paper in the CIA's own MKULTRA platform, 'Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology'-!!!!

Look at page 5 of her cv- papers on "delayed gratification" or why youth choose to enlist or not.
Look at her 1964 papers.
AND SHE DID BECOME JUST THE SUPERSTAR THEY FEARED.


I did look at that page. I didn't see that her "delayed gratification" paper was about or influenced by young men enlisting in the military. This is what I found out about that paper:

It is not known how heritable the ability to defer gratification is, although most personality variables appear to have a significant degree of heritability. However, in one experiment, using Barbadian Negroes in the Cambridge area, the mother's delay of gratification (choice of large bottle of instant coffee in a week or a small bottle now) was found to be correlated with the child's violating or not violating a prohibition in a temptation situation (Mischel & Gilligan, 1964, p. 412). This suggests both behaviors are reflecting a heritable trait.


Still wondering where you got the idea that the 1964 paper had anything to do with military enlistment. I found something else:

In 1972, the year Nixon beat McGovern in a landslide, Gilligan began asking men and women students at Harvard how they faced moral conflicts. She had also decided to study young men forced to choose whether or not to fight in Vietnam, a moral dilemma that was ripping American families and the United States apart.
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Will Hugh Manatee Wins ever jump the shark?

Postby robert d reed » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:38 pm

"Superstar"?

Carol Gilligan's name recognition, then and now, is lower than such lights in the firmament as R. D. Laing, Valerie Solanis, Harold Stassen, or Orson Bean.

Let me get this right...

Your saying that her work needed to be pre-emptively smokescreened in the 1960s, by the engineering of a television series named Gilligan's Island- a series that had to be made for the primary purpose of getting the title on the air, as a tactic to sow confusion in the public mind ?
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