Leak Severed a Link to Al-Qaeda's Secrets

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Postby Telexx » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:24 am

Doodad wrote:For all intents and purposes, if it walks like an AQ and talks like an AQ, it is an AQ. But semantics is awfully fun isn't it?


Nonsense. To ascribe a label (such as al-Qaeda) as being descriptive of an object, when in fact it describes our experience of that object, is precisely the mechanism that is hijacked in order to limit understanding.

This means, if it looks like AQ and talks like AQ, chances are you are watching the wrong news channel! :lol:

However, my main point was:

The fact that objective reality is being distorted - lied about - in order to scare people; that language is (typically, obviously) the vehicle for that is a mere distraction.

Thanks,

Telexx

ON EDIT: made things clearer & less confrontational
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Postby Doodad » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:55 am

Telexx wrote:
Doodad wrote:For all intents and purposes, if it walks like an AQ and talks like an AQ, it is an AQ. But semantics is awfully fun isn't it?


Nonsense. To ascribe a label (such as al-Qaeda) as being descriptive of an object, when in fact it describes our experience of that object, is precisely the mechanism that is hijacked in order to limit understanding.

This means, if it looks like AQ and talks like AQ, chances are you are watching the wrong news channel! :lol:

However, my main point was:

The fact that objective reality is being distorted - lied about - in order to scare people; that language is (typically, obviously) the vehicle for that is a mere distraction.

Thanks,

Telexx

ON EDIT: made things clearer & less confrontational


So a fascist group not led by Mussolini is not a fascist group?
Doodad
 

Postby Telexx » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:30 pm

Doodad wrote:So a fascist group not led by Mussolini is not a fascist group?


This is the question you're asking in response to my point about objective reality being distorted - lied about through the use of labels - in order to scare people?

:roll:

Obviously a fascist group is only a fascist group in the eyes of those who ascribe (or subscribe to) labels. To free thinkers, it is no such thing.

Labels are powerful in that they take a process (in this case a group engaged in acts of fascism) and set it in stone as a quality (so now it's not what they do, implying cause & effect, but who they are - making cause & effect much less of an issue).

The net result = a limit to the listener's experience/grasp/map - of reality.

I think, given your seemingly partisan views on a certain thorny subject, there are many such labels limiting your grasp of reality Mr. Doodad. :lol:

Thanks,

Telexx
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Postby Doodad » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:06 pm

Telexx wrote:
Doodad wrote:So a fascist group not led by Mussolini is not a fascist group?


This is the question you're asking in response to my point about objective reality being distorted - lied about through the use of labels - in order to scare people?

:roll:

Obviously a fascist group is only a fascist group in the eyes of those who ascribe (or subscribe to) labels. To free thinkers, it is no such thing.

Labels are powerful in that they take a process (in this case a group engaged in acts of fascism) and set it in stone as a quality (so now it's not what they do, implying cause & effect, but who they are - making cause & effect much less of an issue).

The net result = a limit to the listener's experience/grasp/map - of reality.

I think, given your seemingly partisan views on a certain thorny subject, there are many such labels limiting your grasp of reality Mr. Doodad. :lol:

Thanks,

Telexx


lol

Another, "I'm not going to believe in an Al Q until they put the sword to my neck." guy. That's some "reality" you got there.

:P
Doodad
 

Postby Telexx » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:16 pm

Silly Doodie,

lol

Another, "I'm not going to believe in an Al Q until they put the sword to my neck." guy. That's some "reality" you got there.


Given the point I made about labels (for which you clearly have no constructive answer btw), the irony in now giving me a label is not lost here, which means you're either:

a) A comedy genius.
b) Just not bright enough to understand.

Beyond that, your label is incorrect - I understand that there is a group labelled al-Quaeda, I also understand that there are groups engaged in Islamicist terrorism that are allied to it both spiritually and materially.

Unlike you, however, I haven't just haven't swallowed down the propaganda like a good little sheep.

Still - labelling things looks like fun - let me try one on you:

TROLL :lol:

Thanks,

Telexx
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:05 pm

"I'm not going to believe in an Al Q until they put the sword to my neck."


Yes, that's right.

Then again, I've sat on Santa's lap, got presents from him and even seen him on teevee, and I STILL don't believe there's a Santa Claus...
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Postby Doodad » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:02 pm

Just not bright enough to understand.


Another one. Imagine my luck, landing on a board of geniuses. Who woulda thunk it? Wait til I tell the folks back in Slackjaw.

:P
Doodad
 

Postby Doodad » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:03 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
"I'm not going to believe in an Al Q until they put the sword to my neck."


Yes, that's right.

Then again, I've sat on Santa's lap, got presents from him and even seen him on teevee, and I STILL don't believe there's a Santa Claus...


Lately? You naughty thing.

:lol:
Doodad
 

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:31 pm

Doodad wrote:For all intents and purposes, if it walks like an AQ and talks like an AQ, it is an AQ. But semantics is awfully fun isn't it?


Exactly. "Al qaeda" is a Western intelligence construct. It refers to the perpetrators of any acts of terror that are so sophisticated and successful that one might otherwise suspect state sponsorship.

Doodad wrote:For all intents and purposes, if it walks like an AQ and talks like an AQ, it is an AQ. But semantics is awfully fun isn't it?
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Postby Doodad » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:35 pm

stickdog99 wrote:
Doodad wrote:For all intents and purposes, if it walks like an AQ and talks like an AQ, it is an AQ. But semantics is awfully fun isn't it?


Exactly. "Al qaeda" is a Western intelligence construct. It refers to the perpetrators of any acts of terror that are so sophisticated and successful that one might otherwise suspect state sponsorship.

Doodad wrote:For all intents and purposes, if it walks like an AQ and talks like an AQ, it is an AQ. But semantics is awfully fun isn't it?


You know there are people who suspect state sponsorship in a ham sandwich.
Doodad
 

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:40 pm

Doodad wrote:Another, "I'm not going to believe in an Al Q until they put the sword to my neck." guy. That's some "reality" you got there.

It's not a case of not believing in trained paramilitary Muslim fundamentalists. Certainly, they are real and deadly. We funded their madrassas. They fought the USSR as our proxies in Afghanistan. However, the Western intelligence construct "al Qaeda" is not used to denote trained paramilitary Muslim fundamentalists but instead to denote whoever perpetrates an act of terror sophisticated and spectacular enough to otherwise indicate state sponsorship.
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Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:47 pm

Doodad wrote:You know there are people who suspect state sponsorship in a ham sandwich.

There are far more who Two Minutes Hate whoever Fox News tells them to.

Israel quite obviously deals with a large number of hardline Islamic fundamentalist terrorist attacks on a weekly (or, at best, monthly) basis:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ctims.html

The webpage linked above lists over 350 separate fatal incidents resulting in well over 1000 Israeli fatalities since September, 2000.

But I haven't yet located a single incident out of these 350+ in which more than 30 Israelis died. Nor have I found a single example of a well-coordinated, multiple-attack terrorist strike (defined as three or more separate fatal acts of terrorism executed within a span of three hours). Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I could direct me to these entries?

Now, it seems to me that the more sophisticated and spectacular an act of terrorism is -- the more, shall we say, made-for-TV -- the greater chance that this dramatically successful act of terrorism was state sponsored to achieve some political end. This is purely a function of the far greater MEANS and OPPORTUNITY of state sponsored mil/intel organizations when compared with those of the typical Jihadist terrorists they are tasked with foiling. Surely, we would all agree that this exact pattern (of highly dramatic and potent terrorist acts correlating with covert state sponsored activities) is quite typical in the historical records of many perhaps less "politically enlightened" regions -- such as Indonesia, South Africa and Latin America, for example.

Unlike Israel (which deals with far more numerous but typically far less potent Jihadist attacks), the USA & Great Britain appear to deal almost exclusively with spectacularly successful, well-coordinated, highly sophisticated MADE-FOR-TV Goldfinger/Dr. No-type terrorists.

The Jihadist terrorists attacking Israel don't typically choose highly symbolic strike dates (like 9/11 or 7.7 -- with years of inactivity between) to launch singular and discrete but highly memorable, extremely fatal and very well-coordinated multi-strikes. In contrast, real terrorist organizations almost invariably attempt to highlight the desperate straits of their causes by aggressively claiming full responsibility for their violent acts using previously known and recognized channels and spokesmen. Furthermore, these real Jihadist terrorist organizations do not put a premium on huge and horrifically fatal MADE-FOR-TV terror muscle-flexing but instead foster a continual atmosphere of perilousness by striking whenever, wherever and however they can.

The term "al Qaeda" has now come to simply signify any anonymous act of terror that might otherwise appear sophisticated enough to implicate state-sponsored mil/intel. I realize that this is a generalization at best, but please understand the context in which I'm daring to utter such blasphemous thoughtcrime. Our entire corporate media apparatus and political hierarchy have already convicted Islamic fundamentalists of all of current and future incidences of spectacular terror with nary a shred of backing evidence. In contrast, I'm not trying to convince anyone to jump to any hasty conclusions -- just to duly consider all logically probable alternatives.
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Postby Doodad » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:32 pm

with nary a shred of backing evidence.


Well, except their own words.
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Postby slimmouse » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:45 pm

Doodad wrote:
with nary a shred of backing evidence.


Well, except their own words.


Is that with or without the use of MK ultra programming ?

Is that with or without waterboarding ?

Is that with or without the usual zillion dollar incentive for lying ?

Is that with or without the usual Fox news headlines?

"In their own words."

Sure, boss ;)
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Postby stickdog99 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:06 am

Doodad wrote:
with nary a shred of backing evidence.


Well, except their own words.

Anybody can say anything he wants for any reason he wishes. Further, even people with wholly modest means can make a recording of anybody saying anything they want. What makes you believe that the reported words of reported al Qaeda leaders reflect anything remotely resembling the truth?
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