Leak Severed a Link to Al-Qaeda's Secrets

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Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:06 am

I often find it hillarious on some of the serious thinking, tho liberal slanted forums I sometimes go on...they'll go on ad nasueum about how evil Bush is, evil US policy, and a kind of Chomsky like view that *sometimes* acknowleges black ops..they talk about how "evil" the invasion of Iraq was.

However, very easily you can tell who is limited in their understanding in intellect when they talk about al Qaeda on the playing terms of the powers that be, taking at face value what the media says when it comes to al Qaeda globally, 9/11, and Osama. They'll go on for pages arguing about effective ways to "combat" al Qaeda, and what the new Osama tapes mean.

So sadly, even the liberals who think they are intellectual and "smart" don't seem to get it.

Theres those that take the Power of Nightmares BBC approach by saying "well al Qaeda did 9/11, but they are blown way out of proportion"

Theres the Alex Jones approach that says there is no al Qaeda, its all false flags

Then there is myself, who clearly sees the hand of rogue intelligence in a clever way behind most of the famous terror attacks, but I believe that the actual bombers think they are doing it for allah. Most of these are provocatuered rather than pure inside jobs.

When will liberals and people start to wonder "could al Qaeda do such attacks without doors intentionally being left open"?

And why cant these high paid analysts and Intelcenter/SITE companies start exposing WHO is sponsoring these groups.

Smart researchers KNOW that Pakistan *IS* the Islamic terror monster breeding terror ground, and Pakistani ISI is the go to proxies for a lot of the Western globalist agenda terror attacks. These "Islamic" terrorists are being used as mere foils for the "Great Satan" they claim to hate.

It's like if one player was playing both sides of a game of command and conquer, or Starcraft.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:46 am

stickdog99 said:

Israel quite obviously deals with a large number of hardline Islamic fundamentalist terrorist attacks on a weekly (or, at best, monthly) basis:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ctims.html

The webpage linked above lists over 350 separate fatal incidents resulting in well over 1000 Israeli fatalities since September, 2000.


stickdog99, that is an outrageous statement. A little context shows why:

Image


You can find more details here: (sources & links in original)

Breakdown of Deaths: Israelis / Palestinians

Children Killed
(More on the impact on children.)
Israelis: 118
Palestinians: 952

Civilians* Killed
Israelis: 704
Palestinians: 2,019 - 2,878

People killed in the course of a targeted killing
Israelis: 1
Palestinians: 367

People who were the object of a targeted killing
Israelis: 1
Palestinians: 218

People killed on own land
Israelis: 558 (54.5%)
Palestinians: 4,211 (98.5%)

People killed on others' land
Israelis: 466 (45.5%)
Palestinians: 63 (1.5%)

** The Palestinian people do not have a military, so the usual classification of civilian is not being used. Instead B'Tselem provides data on the number of Palestinians who did not participate in hostilities, a significantly more stringent qualification that the one used to identify Israeli civilians. We do not know how many of the Israelis listed as civilians participated in the hostilities. Many settlers who illegally have taken over parts of the West Bank (and used to live in parts of the Gaza Strip) are heavily armed and there have been numerous reports of their brutal attacks on their Palestinian neighbors.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html



I don't understand why you don't trust Fox News as a source, if this is what you consider reliable:

Jewish Virtual Library: A Division of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise

"hardline Islamic fundamentalist terrorist attacks", eh?

Far more Palestinian civilians were killed than Israelis, including Israeli occupation soldiers, but Israel "quite obviously has to deal with hardline ... fundamentalist terrorist attacks"?

Hello?
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Postby Doodad » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:38 am

Oh course Pallywood has shown us that accepting Palestinian figures is usually meaningless so the chart is simply propaganda most likely. B'Tselem plays with the statistics in the most dishonest ways.


As documented in CAMERA’s Jan. 3, 2007 analysis (“B’Tselem’s Annual Casualty Figures Questioned”), there are two major problems with B’Tselem’s identification of Palestinians as “not taking part in hostilities at the time they were killed.”

First, in many cases, B'Tselem identified individuals as not being involved in hostilities at the time they were killed when there was credible information to the contrary. These include, for instance, Muhammad Mahmoud Rajab a-Jarjawi, 19, killed Nov. 23 in Beit Lahiya. B’Tselem ignored the Palestinian Ma’an News Agency report that said Jarjawi was one of “a group of armed Palestinian resistance men who were confronting the invading Israeli tanks.” CAMERA’s two-month study (November and December 2006) turned up a number of similar cases. B’Tselem ignored AFP reports that Sa’id Salem Suleiman Hajaj, 20, and Tah’ir Hassan ‘Abed al-Masri, 16, killed Nov. 18, were both armed, according to the Israeli army. B’Tselem also ignored incriminating material in AFP and AP reports about Muhammad Salamah Hussein Hamidan, killed Nov. 16, and Wahib Musieh Nayef a-Dik, killed Dec. 14.

And, in a particularly misleading case, B’Tselem said that Muhammad (‘Eid) Amin Mahmoud Ramaheh “did not participate in hostilities when killed,” and at the same time noted “He was armed.” (According to an Israeli army press release, Ramaheh “and one of his men opened fire [at soldiers at a roadblock]. The soldiers returned fire, killing the two . . .”) B’Tselem was similarly contradictory about 14-year-old Jamil Abd al-Karim Jamil al-Jabaji, killed Dec. 3. According to B’Tselem, he “did not participate in hostilities,” but was “killed while throwing stones at soldiers.”

Second, among those identified as not being engaged in hostilities at the time of death were terrorists regularly involved in planning and carrying out violent attacks. For instance, B’Tselem covered up the fact that the aforementioned Ramaheh was a Tanzim leader and that Sa’id Hajaj was a member of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The same goes for Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade members ‘Alaa a-Din Jamil Khamaiseh and Salim Usef Mahoud Sa’id, both killed Nov. 8.


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_conte ... ticle=1303
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:16 pm

B'Tselem: An-internationally respected Israeli human rights organization that conducts its own field-work on the ground in Israel and the Occupied Territories.

CAMERA: A zionist advocacy watchdog that monitors the media and academic campuses for "anti-Israel bias".


B'Tselem has attained a prominent place among human rights organizations. In December, 1989 it received the Carter-Menil Award for Human Rights. Its reports have gained B'Tselem a reputation for accuracy, and the Israeli authorities relate to them seriously. B'Tselem ensures the reliability of information it publishes by conducting its own fieldwork and research, the results of which are thoroughly cross-checked with relevant documents, official government sources, and information from other sources, among them Israeli, Palestinian, and other human rights organizations

http://www.btselem.org/English/About_BTselem/Index.asp



...The sustained attacks on public television reveal CAMERA's carousel-like contradictions. Three weeks before many Public Broadcasting Service stations aired as part of the "Frontline" series a film entitled "Journey to the Occupied Lands," CAMERA's local chapters were mobilized to protest.

National CAMERA had mailed them a highly critical alert denouncing the program even before it was screened. What was the basis for CAMERA's clairvoyant truculence? It had recognized the names of the program's "biased" producers, and had evaluated negatively a program flyer, which it considered to be anti-Israel.

Many members wrote or telephoned their protests to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting on the day the film was shown. Despite CAMERA's orchestrated protest campaign, however, stations that aired "Journey" reported audience response ran six-to-one in favor of the program.

CAMERA's disregard for even the theoretical norms of American journalism was revealed by its astonishingly contradictory stands in the cases of two films presented by some public television stations. One, "Days of Rage," presented the viewpoints of young Palestinians in the first months of the intifada. The other, "Israel: A Nation is Born," is a new series presented by former Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban.

CAMERA was among pro-Israel groups that successfully persuaded most stations that carried "Days of Rage" to enclose it in a "wrap-around" program that enabled critics to discuss the film and to present opposing viewpoints. When the same "wraparound" procedure was suggested for public television stations electing to present "Israel: A Nation Is Born," however, CAMERA opposed it.

Battered by the criticisms of groups like CAMERA, and threats by Jewish groups to organize a boycott against donations to individual public television stations, WNET in New York and some other stations agreed to what station KQED in San Francisco called "unprecedented" rules laid down by the producers of the film about Israel. The producers ruled that it could not be presented in a "wrap-around" setting, that it had to be shown in prime time, and that the producer could veto whatever was scheduled before and after their film. CAMERA found nothing offensive when such conditions were added to a film which presented a purely Israeli point of view.


http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0793/9307029.htm
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Postby stickdog99 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:40 pm

Did you happen to notice my point, ATK?

My point has nothing to do with the Palestinian/Israeli struggle per se. I was simply taking Israel at its word (and liguistics) and making a cogent observation about actual guerrilla warfare vs. made for TV guerrilla warfare. I catered my response specifically to Doodad in order to make a point about al Qaeda "terrorists" vs. actual "terrorists" using Doodad's own Zionist terms and Zionist approved sources.

8bitagent, I agree that al Qaeda is a basically Saudi/Pakistani intelligence bred proxy for the US. But the great thing about al Qaeda from our fearless leaders' perspectives is that one you build it, all made-For-TV terror automatically comes from it.
Last edited by stickdog99 on Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Doodad » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:55 pm

Alice plays the my source good your source bad game yet again. If B'Tselam lied, it lied. Simple as that. If Pallywood fabrications are shown as they have been many many times, then who can trust what they say?

The same holds for Israel I suppose but to attribute truth as the sole domain of a biased entity like B'Tselam is absurd.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:25 pm

stickdog99 said:

Did you happen to notice my point, ATK?


Yeah, I did, and I agreed with it, but I couldn't let that phrase go without responding.

I catered my response specifically to Doodad in order to make a point about al Qaeda "terrorists" vs. actual "terrorists" using Doodad's own Zionist terms and Zionist approved sources.


Jeez. Dare I ask how you "cater" your response when you're communicating with White supremacists? Anti-semites? Misogynists?

Here's some friendly advice: don't let someone else put words in your mouth, unless you believe in those words and are prepared to back them up.

Doodad said:

...to attribute truth as the sole domain of a biased entity like B'Tselam is absurd.


Can you name another agency with the distinguished record of B'Tselem, with the resources to independently gather and verify facts in the field, for accurate information about what is happening in the Occupied Territories?

The zionist occupation army has a long history of suppressing and distorting facts, intimidating and harassing witnesses, even shooting reporters who film or witness their abuses.

As for the AP, while they generally use local Palestinian cameramen and reporters, their editorial offices are in Jerusalem. Final decisions about what to publish are made abroad, at their headquarters in New York. If B'Tselem's account conflicts with that of the Associated Press, there's no question about which is more reliable:

The Associated Press:

... AP, according to its website, is the world’s oldest and largest news organization. It is the behemoth of news reporting, providing what its editors determine is the news to a billion people each day. Through its feeds to thousands of newspapers, radio and television stations, AP is a major determinant in what Americans read, hear and see – and what they don’t.

What they don’t is profoundly important. I investigated one such omission when I was in the Palestinian Territories last year working on a documentary with my colleague (and daughter), who was filming our interviews.

On Oct. 17, 2004 Israeli military forces invaded Balata, a dense, poverty-stricken community deep in Palestine’s West Bank (Israel frequently invades this area and others). According to witnesses, the vehicles stayed for about twenty minutes, the military asserting its power over the Palestinian population. The witnesses state that there was no Palestinian resistance – no “clash,” no “crossfire.” At one point, after most of the vehicles had finally driven away, an Israeli soldier stuck his gun out of his armored vehicle, aimed at a pre-pubescent boy nearby, and pulled the trigger.

We went to the hospital and interviewed the boy, Ahmad, his doctors, family, and others. Ahmad had bandages around his lower abdomen, where surgeons had operated on his bladder. He said he was afraid of Israeli soldiers, and pulled up his pants leg to show where he had been shot previously.

In the hospital there was a second boy, this one with a shattered femur; and a third boy, this one in critical condition with a bullet hole in his lung. A fourth boy, not a patient, was visiting a friend. He showed us a scarred lip and missing teeth from when Israeli soldiers had shot him in the mouth.

This was not an unusual situation. When I had visited Palestinian hospitals on a previous trip, I had seen many such victims; some with worse injuries. Yet, very few Americans know this is going on. AP’s actions in regard to Ahmad’s shooting may explain why.

We discovered that an AP cameraman had filmed the entire incident. This cameraman had then followed what apparently is the usual routine. He sent his video – an extremely valuable commodity, since it contained documentary evidence of a war crime – to the AP control bureau for the region. This bureau is in Israel.

What happened next is unfathomable. Did AP broadcast it? No. Did AP place the video in safe-keeping, available for an investigation of this crime? No.

According to its cameraman, AP erased it. ...


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/erasevideo.html
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Postby Occult Means Hidden » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:39 pm

Can someone explain to me how,

-As the article explained, "a production company" linked to Al-Qaeda could go unidentified?

-That with the CIA's and the NSA's computing power that is at the very least, 10 years ahead of the market PC methods, are we not able to identify...

- the hosts of these "Jihadist Militant Websites" that are the source of all this information?

- the IP address location or ID despite scrambling attempts by all posters?

- The domain identification of registrars, considering especially since that source largely resides in the United States?

You illegally DL songs from Kazaa in scrambled bittorrent programs with a static IP and Arista Records can find you to sue you, but you use a PC to host a bit of "Jihadi" commands, and the most powerful computers that are at least 10 years ahead market, with the most talented codebreakers on Earth in the CIA and the NSA, are unable to root out the source of Al-Qaeda's ONLY method of communication?

A case study alone on the MSM's reporting of Al-Qaeda's intentions relying solely on "Islamist Websites" is damning enough.
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Postby Occult Means Hidden » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:41 pm

Seriously...
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Postby Doodad » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:50 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:stickdog99 said:

Did you happen to notice my point, ATK?


Yeah, I did, and I agreed with it, but I couldn't let that phrase go without responding.

I catered my response specifically to Doodad in order to make a point about al Qaeda "terrorists" vs. actual "terrorists" using Doodad's own Zionist terms and Zionist approved sources.


Jeez. Dare I ask how you "cater" your response when you're communicating with White supremacists? Anti-semites? Misogynists?

Here's some friendly advice: don't let someone else put words in your mouth, unless you believe in those words and are prepared to back them up.

Doodad said:

...to attribute truth as the sole domain of a biased entity like B'Tselam is absurd.


Can you name another agency with the distinguished record of B'Tselem, with the resources to independently gather and verify facts in the field, for accurate information about what is happening in the Occupied Territories?

The zionist occupation army has a long history of suppressing and distorting facts, intimidating and harassing witnesses, even shooting reporters who film or witness their abuses.

As for the AP, while they generally use local Palestinian cameramen and reporters, their editorial offices are in Jerusalem. Final decisions about what to publish are made abroad, at their headquarters in New York. If B'Tselem's account conflicts with that of the Associated Press, there's no question about which is more reliable:

The Associated Press:

... AP, according to its website, is the world’s oldest and largest news organization. It is the behemoth of news reporting, providing what its editors determine is the news to a billion people each day. Through its feeds to thousands of newspapers, radio and television stations, AP is a major determinant in what Americans read, hear and see – and what they don’t.

What they don’t is profoundly important. I investigated one such omission when I was in the Palestinian Territories last year working on a documentary with my colleague (and daughter), who was filming our interviews.

On Oct. 17, 2004 Israeli military forces invaded Balata, a dense, poverty-stricken community deep in Palestine’s West Bank (Israel frequently invades this area and others). According to witnesses, the vehicles stayed for about twenty minutes, the military asserting its power over the Palestinian population. The witnesses state that there was no Palestinian resistance – no “clash,” no “crossfire.” At one point, after most of the vehicles had finally driven away, an Israeli soldier stuck his gun out of his armored vehicle, aimed at a pre-pubescent boy nearby, and pulled the trigger.

We went to the hospital and interviewed the boy, Ahmad, his doctors, family, and others. Ahmad had bandages around his lower abdomen, where surgeons had operated on his bladder. He said he was afraid of Israeli soldiers, and pulled up his pants leg to show where he had been shot previously.

In the hospital there was a second boy, this one with a shattered femur; and a third boy, this one in critical condition with a bullet hole in his lung. A fourth boy, not a patient, was visiting a friend. He showed us a scarred lip and missing teeth from when Israeli soldiers had shot him in the mouth.

This was not an unusual situation. When I had visited Palestinian hospitals on a previous trip, I had seen many such victims; some with worse injuries. Yet, very few Americans know this is going on. AP’s actions in regard to Ahmad’s shooting may explain why.

We discovered that an AP cameraman had filmed the entire incident. This cameraman had then followed what apparently is the usual routine. He sent his video – an extremely valuable commodity, since it contained documentary evidence of a war crime – to the AP control bureau for the region. This bureau is in Israel.

What happened next is unfathomable. Did AP broadcast it? No. Did AP place the video in safe-keeping, available for an investigation of this crime? No.

According to its cameraman, AP erased it. ...


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/erasevideo.html


Alice, statistics are the biggest lies of all. Pallywood comes in a close second.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood
Last edited by Doodad on Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Doodad » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:04 pm

water wrote:
When will liberals and people start to wonder "could al Qaeda do such attacks without doors intentionally being left open"?


when they see it in a made for tv movie


:(


Doors left open or moles giving helpful info which has been far more common over the years in every government. When you consider the almost immediate reaction among the America haters blaming her actions for the assault, it's not too hard to imagine that there are those in the loop in the various civil services who are hard left and willing to pass along info to change America's course.

This is far more likely in my estimation especially given the knowledge that lie detectors are essentially worthless.
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Postby 8bitagent » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:16 pm

Occult Means Hidden wrote:Can someone explain to me how,

-As the article explained, "a production company" linked to Al-Qaeda could go unidentified?

-That with the CIA's and the NSA's computing power that is at the very least, 10 years ahead of the market PC methods, are we not able to identify...

- the hosts of these "Jihadist Militant Websites" that are the source of all this information?

- the IP address location or ID despite scrambling attempts by all posters?

- The domain identification of registrars, considering especially since that source largely resides in the United States?

You illegally DL songs from Kazaa in scrambled bittorrent programs with a static IP and Arista Records can find you to sue you, but you use a PC to host a bit of "Jihadi" commands, and the most powerful computers that are at least 10 years ahead market, with the most talented codebreakers on Earth in the CIA and the NSA, are unable to root out the source of Al-Qaeda's ONLY method of communication?

A case study alone on the MSM's reporting of Al-Qaeda's intentions relying solely on "Islamist Websites" is damning enough.


And here lies the joke.

Between 2002 and 2004 it came out that most of the sick psychopathic al Qaeda/jihadist sites, even the ones posting the webcam snuff beheading shit, were...you guessed it: HOSTED IN AMERICA.

And investigators went to Texas, Seattle and Atlanta to the fake po box fronts of these "companies", and when finally confronted...they simply said "Free speech".

Now Im not one to buy the meme of al Qaeda=CIA/Pentagon.
And no, I dont think intelcenter is in league with al Qaeda

But I do believe SOMETHING fishy is going on.

The head of al Qaeda's public face is a tubby American Jewish kid who is about as articulate as a bumbling nutcase(And I mention the Jewish thing, as doesnt al Qaeda hate Jews?)

And why is it Osama's new tape freezes RIGHT when hes about to talk about modern events?

Why is it Osama and Zawahiri and Mullah Omar are free and noone knows where they are, but the US government can find anyone with predator drones and satelites?

Maybe, just maybe...these men are free BECAUSE they are allowed to be, under tacist White House/Pakistani agreement? Free to make all the podcasts and youtube videos they want?

Im starting to see even the clueless mainstream left start to say "hey wait a minute, theres something funny about these al Qaeda videos"
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Postby Occult Means Hidden » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:15 pm

I'd like more information about anything related. I remember reading somewhere that many of these websites were registered in Denmark.

Here is a link that explains how the US Commerce Department basically has complete control over the internet. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4327928.stm
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