Derealization

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Derealization

Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:26 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization

How many people have truly experienced this?
Not just an ordinary existential crisis or a reefer freakout.
Certainly not just a neurological disorder, either.

[raises hand]
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:45 am

I was going to elaborate, but...

...if I'm the only one then I'll keep my derealizations to myself. :lol:
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Postby erosoplier » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:20 am

None of us can hear you FB. You've only been imagining that you started this thread.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:29 am

erosoplier wrote:None of us can hear you FB. You've only been imagining that you started this thread.


:lol:

Yeah, that's not quite what it means, but still funny.

Here's a starting off point:
Has anyone read "Great Apes" by Will Self?
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Postby IanEye » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:57 am

4b, did you recently change the filter on your Brita Water Purifier?

If so, perhaps the new filter is catching more of the benzodiazepines in the Boston water supply than usual.....
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:16 am

IanEye wrote:4b, did you recently change the filter on your Brita Water Purifier?

If so, perhaps the new filter is catching more of the benzodiazepines in the Boston water supply than usual.....


I drink from the tap, always have.
My precious bodily fluids are irreparably fucked.

:lol:
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Postby monster » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:40 am

I've experienced this off and on. A very surreal feeling.

Not too long ago I had the strange perception that reality was a projection on a liquid crystal screen about four feet from me in all directions. Like I was really just in a liquid-crystal bubble, with moving images on the bubble sides. It was quite strange and lasted about 10 days.

Mostly, my surreal perceptions involve liquid - I feel like I will see ripples in reality at any moment (like when you throw a rock into a pond).

I also get an out-of-time feeling, and a couple different variations of an expanded awareness feeling.

Now you can elaborate, 4B :)
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:48 am

The last couple years, occasionally, usually but not always when stoned, I have perceived life around me as if I were from another universe, a "control" universe if you will, observing an utterly bizarre and arbitrary congregation of plasmatic creatures vocalizing and gesticulating and swarming. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had that feeling, maybe some here feel it every day all day, lol...but what I think might separate my experiences is the pure, unmediated acuity and lucidity of them. There's having this kind of generic alienation epiphany in the abstract and entertaining it imaginatively for a few minutes...but this has been experiencing it as if it is the ultimate reality. It's probably beyond my ability to communicate in one post, so I'll try to work through it as long as this thread lives. I've had countless existential crisises in my life, hell I've invited and even begged for them since I was a teenager because...well, because I can't live without them. I've also done a few serious drugs, although the closest thing to a psychedelic was one pleasant shroom trip. I've had what could possibly be diagnosed as back-to-back hypomanic episodes in the winters of 1999 and 2000, and that's the extent of my "mental illness". These occasional "derealizations" have not been philosophical, they have not been pharmaceutical, they have not been neurological -- they have been like glimpses into the "true" (but really, true, without even the hint of quotation marks) epiphenomenal nature of existence, and it's like something out of a fucking Vonnegut novel if Vonnegut himself had been even weirder and from an inconceivably strange universe. Humbling, frightening, comic, almost soothing in the ultimate irrelevance of everything. I don't know, all of this probably doesn't seem that exceptional to anyone here...but trust me, it has been exceptional. I doubt there are many people in the world who have seen exactly what I've seen. Not a deep perception, not even the slightest bit complex. Almost totally superficial, actually. I could go on...and on...but I'll just let people mock me (hahaha) or maybe share anything similar if that's possible.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:00 pm

You can get stuck in this vision as if it were ultimately reality, but in this theater the price of admission is your sanity. Read every version of the Tibetan Book of the Dead that you can. There are many now.

The best versions are

Self-Liberation Through Seeing With Naked Awareness.

And Leary's version, available to you as a pdf aver at the Brainsturbator:

http://brainsturbator.com/pdf/timothy_l ... rience.pdf

Leary writes of a certain stage in the trip where people begin to seem unreal and plastic; it reminds me of your derealization.

Advice: without hope or fear, do not grasp. View all the spectacle as laser-light show, passing in profound entertainment.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:20 pm

Definitely profound, and yes even a little entertaining.
Not in any way unreal, though. Just purely alien.
But yeah, I literally chuckled at points.
I don't think I'd get stuck in it.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:53 pm

Reminds me of the Chaos magician's "banishment ritual": self-induced laughter.
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Postby blanc » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:58 pm

fwiw I recognise the description of this state, I think, without drug use. a change or shift in perceptions making the world, or one's relationship to it utterly different*. actually I wonder if we don't have a shift or two from childhood to adulthood - ever tried experiencing as you experienced as a child? near impossible to remember, never mind re-create, but one knows it was different.
* mine was the sensation of being completely alone in the world,whilst in the middle of a town I know well. that doesn't really describe it, and it was a transitory state, not a rationalisation of a feeling, or a depression, not a sense of isolation or difference, just existing on a plane where no-one else was, which was not special in any way. I think this is common enough experience for people.
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Re: Derealization

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:07 pm

FourthBase wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization

How many people have truly experienced this?


Exactly the fictionalization and conditioning tactic I'm pointing at in CIA's TV and movies.

Description

The detachment of derealization can be described as an immaterial substance that separates a person from the outside world, such as a sensory fog, a pane of glass, or a veil.
.....
Another symptom of this condition can be the constant worrying or strange thoughts that people find hard to switch off. Derealization builds up slowly with the underlying anxiety, but shows itself suddenly, often after a panic attack, and is then difficult or impossible to ignore until the sufferer receives treatment. This type of anxiety can be crippling to the sufferer and may lead to avoidance behaviour.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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Postby theeKultleeder » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:10 pm

Or it may be that experiencing a panoply of states of consciousness can help us recognize the faked ones.

Your choice.
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Postby FourthBase » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:10 pm

blanc wrote:fwiw I recognise the description of this state, I think, without drug use. a change or shift in perceptions making the world, or one's relationship to it utterly different*. actually I wonder if we don't have a shift or two from childhood to adulthood - ever tried experiencing as you experienced as a child? near impossible to remember, never mind re-create, but one knows it was different.
* mine was the sensation of being completely alone in the world,whilst in the middle of a town I know well. that doesn't really describe it, and it was a transitory state, not a rationalisation of a feeling, or a depression, not a sense of isolation or difference, just existing on a plane where no-one else was, which was not special in any way. I think this is common enough experience for people.


Well, that pretty much describes how I've been 95% of my life. This isn't quite that, this is more like, I have felt like I was a stranger to not only humanity, not only life itself, but a stranger to existence itself, a stranger to matter and energy itself. The alien absurdity of everything vividly flooding in at once, without an ego to stand in its way or from a mental balcony cast everything in a self-aware comforting context. Let me emphasize the word alien. It isn't anything like the kind of "Oh my god they're aliens" or "We've been invaded by aliens" epiphany a truly crazy person or Roddy Piper might have. It's more like "Heh...we're the aliens, we're the only aliens there has ever been, we've been aliens all along, everything on this planet is a freakish alien life form, holy shit I'm watching these bizarre laughable constructed fleshy creatures participate in an half-advanced half-retarded game of mock aggression based on a delusional sense of self and society and abiding by completely illusionary rules that could be horrifyingly destroyed at any moment, and look there's thousands of them just watching all that and murmuring to their freakishly eyed and mouthed upright plasma selves...and whoa there's an alien on the couch watching the same thing on this amazing image-teleporting machine, and he...it...is trying to talk to me in language and thoughts it has learned to mimic over a lifetime...and I'm an alien too, listening to it and thinking this...wow, this is a fucking cosmic joke, haaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha" It might sounds like just another mildly strange trip or just some strong bong-hit sophistry...but it's not, if it sounds that way it's only because I am not articulate enough to really capture it. As you might be able to guess, I experienced the strongest sensation of this type while mundanely watching a Red Sox game this past May with a buddy, stoned. And during that game, at the pinnacle of this epiphany, in between the ripples of anxiety at such a totally fucking bizarre perception, I felt freedom and peace as a being for the first time in my life. A professional doctor might advise me never to smoke weed again if I were to describe this LMAO. But I've smoked weed for so long and I've cultivated an educated paranoia for so long, the extra bit of paranoia weed brings is just surprising enough to be a slight pull of the rug, which then opens up the gargantuan crater of deconstructive perception I've been digging for myself my whole life -- but I'm not falling in the hole, it's everything around me that falls into the hole, or rather, it's the cloak of belonging-to-the-world that covers everything around me which falls into the hole. I think my brain finally utterly uncloaked everything during that game. Ev-e-ry-thing. You know how the brain filters out stimuli and modes of perception in order to function as a coherent self? It was like all of that -- ALL OF IT -- had just dropped away, exhausted from me never letting life just be. It was my brain said, "Okay motherfucker you really wanna see life without filters, here ya go chief, enjoy." If I were to try to find a good movie analogy (sigh, what else can I compare it to?) it would be...nah, fuck it, I can't even compare it to any movie I've seen. I can't say I'm in total control of the experiences, but I can nervously choose to distract myself from them and concentrate on simple realities if shit gets too heady. Kind of like that spinning dancer. I guess, in a way...I have indoctrinated myself for over 20 years in a one-man cult devoted to unadorned reality, and the walls finally gave way. Unlike previous existential epiphanies when I was say, 18 or 25, there wasn't the slightest trace of smug satisfaction in myself for having "figured it out", which -- although smug -- was often the only positive feeling I could cling to after shedding one layer of "reality" after another. Like I said above, the reward this time was a freedom and peace I had never felt before, never thought even possible. I feel like I never have to take LSD or DMT or any psychedelic, there's not a chance in hell it could provide me with anything more revelatory or fundamentally bizarre than what I've experienced with just two decades of self-enforced cynicism, some good weed now and then, and a sense of humor. There might be stranger entities (stranger entities than "just us humans" to ourselves and the rest of the totally fucking bizarre life that already exists) and more complex riddle-like realities in other trips...but I'm confident what I saw was the unadulterated basic reality of existence, which is so fucking bizarre and laughable that it's almost not even worth contemplating if one can even comprehend it.
“Joy is a current of energy in your body, like chlorophyll or sunlight,
that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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