A Grateful Dead/Phish Government Connection?

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Postby FourthBase » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:39 am

The point as I see it is that if there is a process of substantiating a theory, and it involves the compilation of -- say, 50 facts -- then the Larouchian theory of "certain hippie music and its social implications being manufactured memes of decadence conceived by a thinktank elite" has just added 1 out of the requisite 50 facts. Having encountered the theory first in that "80 Greatest Conspiracy Theories" I non-consciously accepted (as that dude pointed out here earlier people are liable to do) the Tavistock-Dead connection as a factual reality. When I looked it up a little more on the net I found arrogant dismissals citing the theory as a baseless Larouchie concoction (and I'm personally vulnerable to perceiving arrogantly-toned arguments as more believable). In the years I've been on RI, the consensus of that dismissal of Larouche's Tavistock paranoia has only been strengthened. I mean, if RI-ers poo-poo Larouche-connecting-Tavistock-and-the-Dead, then surely the theory is total crap. But here we have undisputed evidence of that connection. Again, it's only 1 out of, say 50. And yeah, there might be at most only, say, 7 other steps up the factual ladder achieved by Larouchies arguing for a Tavistock-planned 60's counter-culture. But this goes to show that a fact can still exist despite being believed by genuine nutjobs, and it shows that in probably any horrible theory that's, say, 95% wrong there's still a 5% that would be right. A "rigorous intuiter" owes it to reality to look at every bogus persepctive with the thought that 5% of it could still be right and worth consideration, even if at odds with the original theory.
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Postby American Dream » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:50 am

FourthBase said:
the Larouchian theory of "certain hippie music and its social implications being manufactured memes of decadence conceived by a thinktank elite" has just added 1 out of the requisite 50 facts.


LaRouchian theory is thoroughly riddled with bullshit, in my experience. In the case of their Tavistock/60's model, it is accompanied with a whole lot of baggage, regarding a monolithic British conspiracy, the pre-eminence of certain European cultures etc. The LaRouchian agenda is odious, but the fact that they use conspiracy discourse to back up their right-wing line should tell us something important.

Have they therefore "branded" any investigations of a 60's/think-tank tie as theirs, and theirs alone? If so, they may be a very successful operation.

I think I hear Henry Kissinger somewhere laughing...
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Postby elfismiles » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:36 pm

Mind Kontrol Phish Sticks
SMiles Lewis

I spoke with a friend who works for a local concert lighting company.

He was telling me about how he almost got to go on tour as a lighting tech for The Dave Matthews Band. He's not a fan but he was interested in going cuz he's heard so much about the strangeness of their tours.

So I mentioned to him the fact that there were several riots at Dave Matthews shows last year - strange since they are a real non-violent kinda groove. Then he or I mentioned the band Phish and their infamous touring groupies remeniscant of the Grateful Dead. I mentioned the rumors that Phish concerts were test beds for mind control research.

He thought that very interesting because Phish are one of the only touring bands he is aware of that have ever requested their own programming to be implanted in the "lithos" of the lights. The "lithos" is a programmed action module within the light itself which interfaces with whatever kind of controller the light techs are using to manipulate the lights. The "lithos" had been specially programmed by the inhouse programmers in the R&D department of Lightwave Research at the behest of the Phish touring show. Also, these particular "lithos" were only controllable by Phish's special controller devices - my friend said he could not get them to work because none of his standard equipment could control the units.

The other strange thing, he said, was that when the lights were returned after the tour they were in the worst shape as any that had ever been returned. My friend says this was strange because they've gotten lights back from tours like Metallica and other metal/hard rock bands and they had never been returned in such bad shape.

My friend still has the special "lithos" modules from the Phish lights and I've asked him to question his friends in the R&D facility to find out a little more about the special programming that went into these Phishy lights.

http://www.konformist.com/rocknroll/phish.htm


Just a weird aside. I never heard anything more abou this ...
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Postby bks » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:04 pm

Deadhead of two decades here. Always found the personal politics of the band a bit of a disappointment, but the general run of their music and the ethos of the 'Grateful Dead Experience' both tended toward the anti-authoritarian, which suited me fine.

I was vaguely troubled (sometimes more than vaguely) about the authoritarian compromises that were made to play in front of large crowds for hundreds of thousands of dollars a show. I assumed, at least, that they were compromises. The police presence in the 80s and 90s, the herding of fans into entrances and exits, the noise ordinances and curfews that were followed - I chafed under all of these obvious indicators of external order being imposed on something I wanted to be a kind of revelry, with all the breaching of ordinary consciousness that attends it.

Ultimately, my Grateful Dead experience was not much of a political consciousness-expander. I loved it, and feel a great loss to this day for the absence of Garcia's improvisational magic. That sounds sappy, but there it is. From the stage the band itself was practically apolitical, and the only overt political message I myself remember from more than 70 shows was long after Garcia had died in 2004, when Weir implored the crowd to vote in the upcoming election, since it might be the last chance we got.

During the Vietnam war, clearly the band was more political. I remember hearing (on a tape of the show) Wavy Gravy introducing them on stage in February 1973. Before he did, WG gave a brief speech about the US bombing a hospital in Southeast Asia, and a hat was being passed to send them back a new hospital.

To those who put (tavis)stock in this: what the deeper theory? Were the Dead a means of transmission? And of what, precisely? What behaviors/attitudes think were being encouraged/discouraged? This is not something I know much about, so I'd be grateful (sorry) for the lesson.
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Postby American Dream » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:19 pm

bks said:
To those who put (tavis)stock in this: what the deeper theory? Were the Dead a means of transmission? And of what, precisely? What behaviors/attitudes think were being encouraged/discouraged? This is not something I know much about, so I'd be grateful (sorry) for the lesson.


The general idea, as propounded by Jim Keith, and maybe myself, is that the Dead were part of a social engineering program to make potential resisters more apolitical and self-involved. The vehicle would be the drug culture, natch.

Speaking of which,
elfismiles said:
Mind Kontrol Phish Sticks


This does NOT remind me of a certain member of the Phish road crew who was deeply addicted to...deeply addicting substances. He never got anybody around him addicted either. And of course this never happened to the Dead! And when the Dead saw that their fans were getting set up for long prison terms, they all did the right thing, and immediately said something. So drugs were never a problem, were they?
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Postby annie aronburg » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:02 pm

American Dream wrote:This does NOT remind me of a certain member of the Phish crew deeply addicted to...deeply addicting substances. He never got anybody around him addicted either. And of course this never happened to the Dead! And when the Dead saw that their fans were getting set up for long prison terms, they all did the right thing, and immediately said something. So drugs were never a problem in this circumstance, were they?


Touring rock acts are today's equivalent of the circus, carnival or revival coming to town.

The energy and novelty generated by these productions provide cover for all manner of covert activities; trafficking and espionage come to mind first.

More subtly "musical tastes" are an easy way to classify groups of humans whose indivuduality and randomness might otherwise make them difficult to classify, control, or "monetize".

I know more people who go to musical concerts than religious services. It's a great way to keep an eye on certain populations, especially those hard to reach subcultures.

Who's going to see Hannah Montana?
Who's going to see Youssou N'dour?
Who's going to see Atrocious Madness?
Who's going to ZPZ?

It's the only way to get certain freaks out in public.

Same goes for sports.

I almost forgot film productions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQJa4xk5rss

A clip from First Person directed by Errol Morris of Ex-CIA operative Antonio Mendez explaining how hostages were smuggled out of Iran under the guise of a location scout for a movie based on Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light


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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:08 pm

American Dream wrote:theeKultleeder said:
Tavistock is a racist, anti-Semitic, anti-human rights, fascist red herring.


It is certainly true that the LaRouche organization is racist, anti-Semitic, and fascistic. It is also valid to characterize the role of Tavistock as a disinformational trope within their discourse.

Does it therefore hold true that Tavistock is meaningless, innocuous? I think it was Mae Brussell who said this about disinformation: the best is 80% true, 20% rat poison. If Tavistock was associated with the Dead and/or Pranksters,
then, in my view, it must be seen as part of a very disturbing pattern...


I dunno... I have come across one source for Tavistock-conspiracy. One author, and it was a bunch of racist crap.

Maybe I'm lacking sources here.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:23 pm

FourthBase wrote: And yeah, there might be at most only, say, 7 other steps up the factual ladder achieved by Larouchies arguing for a Tavistock-planned 60's counter-culture.


There is a huge presumption here: the counter-culture of the 60's was a bad thing.

Now look at the types of people who say the multifaceted rebellion of the 60's was bad - really, see what camps do that to this day: conservative Christians, supporters of the Military-Industrial complex, authoritarians, right wingers, etc...Anti-drug, anti-sex, anti-feminism, anti-desegregation, anti anti anti.

One of the things that bugs me about Tavistock-style theories is that they deny any sort of organic, natural development in human affairs. Many of these theories are simply anti-human for denying that individuals play their roles as shapers of our collective story. Look at the underlying assumptions of tavistock et al - isn't it a lot of hard-right conservatism dressed up conspiracy language?

These conspiracists HATE the changes that took place, and FEAR another rebellion. So they shovel steaming loads of "anti anti anti" ideas into our heads.

I would much rather study and reflect on the Chicago Seven, for instance. It is REAL history, about real people acting as free beings, not as Tavistock dupes.

Image

Background

The convention, in late August 1968, was the scene of massive demonstrations protesting the Vietnam War, which was at its height. Thousands of people showed up with signs and banners, tie-dyed shirts, music, dancing and poetry. A pig, "Pigasus the Immortal", was brought into the city to be "nominated" for President. Initially, there was a carnival atmosphere. The police were edgy. Some people responded to a night-time curfew announcement with rock-throwing. Police used tear gas and struck people with batons, and arrests were made. In the aftermath, a grand jury indicted eight demonstrators and eight police officers.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Seven
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Postby Avalon » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:13 pm

I don't recall anything untoward at the 2 or 3 Dead concerts I went to in the seventies, other than developing a determination to never try to get close to the stage in a big crowd like that. Being slowly raised off my feet by the crush of the crowd was scary. Not to say that anything else couldn't have been going on, but it is always useful to have some actual experience in with the theorizing here.

Here's another piece of the puzzle for you.


from The Independent & The Independent on Sunday
27 December 2007
New spy chief is the ultimate Deadhead
By Andy McSmith
Published: 16 November 2007

British intelligence may get it wrong on such matters as weapons of mass destruction but there will soon be one subject on which they can be trusted to provide full and reliable information.

Alex Allan, the Whitehall mandarin appointed by Gordon Brown to be the new British spymaster, is also a world authority on the Grateful Dead, one of the biggest bands to emerge in California in the late Sixties love-and-peace era when kaftan-wearing visitors to San Francisco were urged to wear flowers in their hair.

Their dedicated fans, known as Deadheads, followed them from gig to gig, like one big extended family. They were so well behaved that one California police chief said he would rather be on duty at nine Grateful Dead concerts than one American football game. Their placid conduct could, of course, be largely attributed to the soporific effects of marijuana.

Jerry Garcia, lead singer of the Grateful Dead, has been dead (in the normal sense of the word) for 12 years but Deadheads are with us still. A fans' website that lists every album, every track and every piece of trivia known about the group is lovingly compiled by a Deadhead called Alex Allan, the same Alex Allan who, by day, works as one of Britain's top civil servants. Yesterday, he was named as the next chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, the apex of the Government's spy network.

Throughout the Cold War, it was the JIC which updated prime ministers on what the West knew about Soviet military capabilities, a job it did well. With the Cold War over, the JIC has had some difficulty finding a new role but its influence reached a peak in 2003 under the chairmanship of John Scarlett, when it told the Cabinet about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction and provided Tony Blair with a reason for going to war.

Mr Allen is not a professional spy but he does have a head for accurate and minute detail, as a visit to his Grateful Dead lyric and song finder website will verify. He joined Customs & Excise as a 22-year-old university graduate in 1973 and rose through the ranks at Whitehall to become principal private secretary to John Major when he was Prime Minister in 1992.

During a rail strike in the 1980s, he decided to windsurf to work along the Thames in his suit and bowler hat, with a briefcase and furled brolly in one hand. As he passed Big Ben, a gust of wind tossed him into the river.

In the first four months of Mr Blair's premiership, Mr Allen stayed at Downing Street to oversee a smooth changeover and was able to furnish the new Prime Minister with an interesting, if useless, piece of intelligence.

As a student at Oxford, Mr Blair was the lead singer in a rock group called Ugly Rumours, but had forgotten whence the group took its name.

Mr Allan reminded him it was taken from the cover of From The Mars Hotel, a Grateful Dead album. Mr Blair was so impressed with Mr Allen's website that in 1999, he asked him to be the government's "e-envoy", responsible for dragging the Civil Service into the age of the internet. He is currently the Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Justice.


http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_b ... 166426.ece

Chicago Ten, Brett Morgen's film on the Chicago Seven, opened the Sundance Film Festival last year. I think it may be coming out on DVD early in 2008.

http://festival.sundance.org/filmguide/ ... ?film=7371
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Postby American Dream » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:28 pm

theeKultleeder said:
I dunno... I have come across one source for Tavistock-conspiracy. One author, and it was a bunch of racist crap.

Maybe I'm lacking sources here.


I have never done research on Tavistock, per se. I am so turned off by LaRouche and Coleman that I never bothered to specifically research the Tavistockians, though the name does pop up from time to time. Here I'll use Wikipedia to do a quick survey of anomalous data, and then cite some other sources to provide broader context [with a few added comments of my own in brackets]:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavistock_Clinic

The Tavistock Clinic...In 1920 made a significant contribution to the understanding of the traumatic effects of 'shell shock' and how it could be treated.

The Second World War saw many of the Tavistock's professional staff joining the armed services as psychiatric specialists, where some (notably Dr Wilfred Bion) introduced radical new methods of selecting officers, using the 'leaderless group' as an instrument to observe which men could take responsibility for others, by being aware of their preoccupations rather than simply by giving orders. This led to reductions in the number of applicants rejected.

John Rawlings Rees also worked at the Institute for several years prior to World War Two and became its Medical Director. With his colleague William Sargant [a notable brainwashing expert and MKULTRA contractor, as well as all-around "spychiatrist"] , he represented a school of psychiatry that stressed the analogy between mental problems and physical illness, consequently favouring physical treatments such as psychosurgery and shock therapy.

R. D. Laing is one of the prominent psychiatrists who was associated with the Tavistock. Laing, who also served in the British Army Psychiatric Unit, became well known, and highly controversial, for his experimentation with LSD and his views on schizophrenia. [Laing was the candidate of choice for noted LSD chemist and probable CIA agent Ronald Stark to replace the unruly Tim Leary as spiritual head of the drug-dealing Brotherhood of Eternal Love, according to David Black's Acid: The Secret History of LSD].

***
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavistock_Institute

The [Tavistock] Institute was founded in 1946 by a group of key figures at the Tavistock Clinic including: ...John Rawlings Rees...and Wilfred Bion, ...funded by a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation. Other well-known names that joined the group later were...John Bowlby [and]...Eric Trist...

***
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rawlings_Rees

John Rawlings Rees (also known as 'Jack') (1890-1969) was a wartime and civilian psychiatrist and became a brigadier in the British Army...According, to Eric Trist, another key member of the original Tavistock group, who was later to become director of the Tavistock Institute:

"In 1941 a group of psychiatrists at the Tavistock Clinic saw that the right questions were asked in Parliament in order to secure the means to try new measures. As a result they were asked to join the Directorate of Army Psychiatry, and did so as a group."

After the war, the members of this group went on to found the Tavistock Institute, with funding from the Rockefeller Foundation. Later, many of them would occupy influential posts in world organisations...

From 1941 Rees, as consultant army psychiatrist, visited Hitler's Deputy Rudolf Hess at the secret prison locations where he was held following his capture after landing in Scotland. Hess's diaries (reproduced by David Irving in Hess the Missing Years), record many meetings with John Rawlings Rees, referred to at this time as Colonal Rees, in which he accused his captors of attempting to poison, drug, and 'mesmerize', him. Rees apparently established a relationship with Hess over the four-year period up to Hess's appearance at the Nuremberg trial. It was at the request of Major Henry Dicks, who was, according to Trist, a fellow member of the Tavistock Clinic group, that Rees first visited Hess in June 1941... [Aleister Crowley was also tasked to the Hess interrogations during this time period].

In 1945, Rees was a member of the three-man British panel (with Churchill's personal physician Lord Moran, and eminent neurologist Dr George Riddoch (Irving, 'Hess the missing years' p310), which assessed the capability of Rudolf Hess to stand trial for war crimes... [MKULTRA contractor Ewen Cameron was also sent to Europe by Alan Dulles for this same purpose around this time.]
***
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_Bion

Wilfred Bion...After the outbreak of World War I, he served as a tank commander in France where he was awarded both the DSO and the Legion of Honour. Subsequently, he studied history at Queen's College, Oxford and medicine at University College London...He joined the RAMC in 1940 and worked in a number of military hospitals including Northfield Hospital where he initiated the first Northfield Experiment...The entire group at Tavistock had in fact been taken into the army, and were working on new methods of treatment for psychiatric casualties (those suffering post-traumatic stress, or 'shell shock' as it was then known.)...

***
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby

John Bowlby...trained in adult psychiatry at the Maudsley Hospital. In 1937, he qualified as a psychoanalyst, and he became president of Trinity College in 1938.

During World War II, he was a Lieutenant Colonel, RAMC. After the war, he was Deputy Director of the Tavistock Clinic, and from 1950, Mental Health Consultant to the World Health Organisation...

***
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Trist

Eric Trist (September, 1909 – June 4, 1993) was a leading figure in the field of Organizational development (OD). He was one of the founders of the Tavistock Institute for Social Research in London...

Trist was heavily influenced by Kurt Lewin, a member of the Frankfurt School whom he met first in Cambridge England in 1933. Kurt Lewin had moved from studying behaviour to engineering its change, particularly in relation to racial and religious conflicts, inventing sensitivity training, a technique for making people more aware of the effect they have on others, which some claim as the beginning of political correctness. This would later influence the direction of much of work at the Tavistock Institute, in the direction of management and, some would say, manipulation, rather than fundamental research into human behaviour and the psyche. It was a partnership between Trist's group at the Tavistock, and Lewin's at MIT that launched the Journal 'Human Relations' just before Lewin's death in 1947...

At the outbreak of the second world war Trist became a clinical psychologist at the Maudsley Hospital, London, treating war casualties from Dunkirk. He recalls how, in 1940, in the London blitz, "some very frightened people came out of their rooms, ran all over the grounds and we had to go and find them." The Maudsley, at Mill Hill, was a teaching hospital, and Trist attended seminars and met people from the Tavistock Clinic, whom he was keen to join. Opposed by his boss, Sir Aubrey Lewis, who wouldn't let him go, he joined the Tavistock group in the army, as a way of getting free, and was replaced by Hans Eysenck.

Trist went to Edinburgh and worked on the war office selection boards (WOSB, with Jock Sutherland and Wilfred Bion. For the last two years of the war, Trist was chief psychologist to the civil resettlements units (CRUs) for repatriated prisoners of war, working to schemes devised by Tommy Wilson and Wilfred Bion. He described this as "probably the most exciting single experience of my professional life".

It was the wartime experiences of Trist and his various associates that created what became known as 'the Tavistock group', which formed a planning committee to meet and plan the future of the Tavistock after the war...

***
Interesting speculation and information on Ewen Cameron from: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... n+mk/ultra

During the Second World War Cameron began working for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). However, in 1943 he went to Canada and established the psychiatry department at Montreal's McGill University and director of the newly-created Allan Memorial Institute that was being funded by the Rockefeller Foundation.

Cameron continued to work for the OSS and in February 1945, Allen Dulles sent him to Germany to examine Rudolf Hess in order to assess if he was fit to stand trial at Nuremberg. According to one source, Dulles had told Cameron, that he believed the Hess he was about to examine was not the real Hess and that he had already been executed on the orders of Winston Churchill. (Gordon Thomas, Journey into Madness, 1993, pages 167-68). Hess spent time with Hess and confirmed that he was not mentally ill and that he should stand trial.

When Rudolf Hess came face to face with Herman Göring at Nuremberg, Hess remarked: “Who are you”? Göring reminded him of events that they witnessed in the past but Hess continued to insist that he did not know this man. Karl Haushofer was then called in but even though they had been friends for twenty years, Hess once again failed to remember him. Hess replied “I just don’t know you, but it will all come back to me and then I will recognise an old friend again. I am terribly sorry.” (Peter Padfield, Hess: The Führer’s Disciple, page 305).

Hess did not recognise other Nazi leaders. Ribbentrop responded by suggesting that Hess was not really Hess. When told of something that Hess had said he replied: “Hess, you mean Hess? The Hess we have here?” (J. R. Rees, The Case of Rudolf Hess, page 169).

However, Major Douglas M. Kelley, the American psychiatrist who was responsible for Hess during the trials, stated that he did have periods when he did remember his past. This included a detailed account of his flight to Scotland. Hess told Kelley that he had arrived without the knowledge of Hitler. Hess claimed that “only he could get the English King or his representatives to meet with Hitler and make peace so that millions of people and thousands of villages would be spared.” (J. R. Rees, The Case of Rudolf Hess, page 168).

One suggestion is that Hess was pretending he had amnesia and was trying to distance himself from the actions of his fellow Nazis. This does not make any sense to me. In fact, the documentary record shows that he was not guilty of war crimes. In fact, most of the war crimes took place after he had left Germany in 1941.

Did Hess' amnesia have anything to do with Cameron's visit? I would argue that Cameron had been sent to Nuremberg to help Churchill and the British intelligence services with a problem. Cameron’s task was to remove Hess’s memory of past events. This is why Hess was unable to recognize his former friends and colleagues at Nuremberg. Cameron next job was to provide Hess with a new memory about events dating back to May 1941. That is why Hess is able to provide Major Douglas M. Kelley with a comprehensive account of his trip to Scotland.

The problem with this brainwashing experiment was that there was no way of knowing how long Hess would be able to remember the past as provided by Dr. Cameron. That is why Hess had to be kept in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. That is the reason why Hess was not allowed to talk about anything that happened before 1945 with anybody, including his own family...

***

From: www.mindcontrolforums.com/mindnet/mn181.htm

UNITED STATES, CANADA, BRITAIN: PARTNERS IN MIND CONTROL
OPERATIONS

By Armen Victorian

...On June 1st, 1951, in the course of a top secret meeting
held in the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Montreal, Canada, Britain
and Canada joined forces with the Central Intelligence Agency
to "Research into the general phenomena indicated by such
terms as -- "confessions," "menticide," "intervention in the
individual mind," together with methods concerned in
psychological coercion, change of opinions and attitudes,
etcetra."[3]

The participants that represented senior and renown ranks from
the military, intelligence and scientific communities were:
Dr. Haskins, Dr. Donald Hebb (a Defence Research Board
University Advisor - Canada), Dr. Ormond Solandt (Chairman,
Defence Research Board - Canada), Dancy (MI6), Dr. N.W. Morton
(A staff member of Defence Research Board - Canada), Tyhurst,
Commander Williams, and Sir Henry Tizard (Chairman, Advisory
Council on Scientific Policy and Defence Research Policy
Committee, Ministry of Defence, Britain).[4]

This was the beginning of a close cooperation which lasted
throughout the BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and the MKULTRA projects.
Whilst accidental survival of some of the records on these
programmes and in particular MKULTRA establishes the
documentary evidence about Canadian government's involvement
in MKULTRA programmes, the information on Britain's
participation or cooperation due to continuous British
Government's policy of secrecy remains sketchy.[5, and 6]

"At the opening of the discussion, there was an attempt to lay
out some of the particular interests with which this group
might concern itself in reference to the general problem
described above [confessions, menticide, intervention in the
individual mind - sic]. In this regard, the following points
were noted:

"(i) That the concern with change of opinion was with reference
to individuals primarily, and to groups only insofar as the
change of public opinion as a whole or propaganda might
involve concepts and particular facts that led to increased
phenomena of conversion of attitude.

"(ii) The question of permanence of change of attitude induced.

"(iii) The means of methods; physical, neurophysiological,
psychological or other -- that might be used to induce change
of opinion or conversion of attitude in the individual."[7]

Within the space of three months after this top secret meeting
"in August 1951 Project BLUEBIRD was renamed Project
ARTICHOKE, [and] in 1952 was transferred from OSI to the
predecessor organization of the Office of Security. OSI did
retain a responsibility for evaluation of foreign
intelligence aspects of the matter and in 1953 made a proposal
that experiments be made in testing LSD with Agency
volunteers." "Meanwhile, the emphasis given ARTICHOKE in the
predecessor organization to the Office of Security became that
of use of material such as sodium pentothel in connection with
interrogation techniques and with polygraph."[8]

In an attempt to conduct "Experimental Studies of Attitude
Changes in Individuals," Sir Henry Tizard, Dr. Ormond Solandt
and the CIA granted contract X-38 to Dr. Donald O. Hebb from
the McGill University in September 1951.[9]...

Due to Donald Hebb's contribution to mind control programmes,
the CIA afterward funded Ewen Cameron's Psychic Drive Project
through MKULTRA Subproject 68. At the time Hebb was the head
of McGill's Psychology Department, and a close friend and
colleague of Cameron. Cameron's work in the "Psychic Drive"
programme left behind a legacy of despair and numerous
victims which sued both the Canadian Government and the CIA
years later...

Britain is regarded as an expert in psychological operations,
and has regularly been invited to give demonstrations and hold
seminars, notably at Fort Bragg, Carolina; Fort Huachuca,
Arizona; Bad Tolz, Germany. For a time they were also
instructing the P.I.D.E. Portuguese secret police until to
their embarrassment, they discovered that since the Army coup
they had for sometime been giving lectures in
counter-insurgency and torture to Latin American guerrillas,
whom Communist members of the Portuguese Army had infiltrated.
[29]...

Like the CIA, Britain too, as part of its mind control operation
applied hallucinogenic drugs -- LSD, on unwitting subjects,
including the Irish internees;

"Mr. Murphy alleges; He was given tea and says that after
drinking he saw images on the wall."[36]

"Mr. Bradley alleges; He suffered from hallucination after
drinking a cup of tea."[37]

Despite Article 22 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
which guarantees "the free development of ...personality," and
"in spite of the various United Nations provisions concerning
the personal integrity of individuals, no state is expressly
precluded from altering the mental processes of its
nationals."[38]

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance," said Albert Camus.
Nowhere is this more clear than in the protection of freedom
of the mind, our most precious human right.[39]
Last edited by American Dream on Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby FourthBase » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:55 pm

There is a huge presumption here: the counter-culture of the 60's was a bad thing.


Errrm, I'm not making that presumption. I should have said "the 60's politically-debilitating pseudo-counter-culture". In other words, the Dead and their politically retarded ilk.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:13 pm

Avalon wrote:
Chicago Ten, Brett Morgen's film on the Chicago Seven, opened the Sundance Film Festival last year. I think it may be coming out on DVD early in 2008.

http://festival.sundance.org/filmguide/ ... ?film=7371


One of the stage plays about it was put on film years ago. I saw it once in the middle of the night when I was a teenager. It was quite good.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:20 pm

FourthBase wrote:
There is a huge presumption here: the counter-culture of the 60's was a bad thing.


Errrm, I'm not making that presumption. I should have said "the 60's politically-debilitating pseudo-counter-culture". In other words, the Dead and their politically retarded ilk.


I think "dropping out" may have been a viable way of social change at some point. Today we are calling it "living off the grid."
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Postby FourthBase » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:23 pm

I think "dropping out" may have been a viable way of social change at some point. Today we are calling it "living off the grid."


Exactly how does dropping out or living off the grid change anything?
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:32 pm

FourthBase wrote:
I think "dropping out" may have been a viable way of social change at some point. Today we are calling it "living off the grid."


Exactly how does dropping out or living off the grid change anything?


How does quitting your job at the missile factory change anything?

The problem is a large enough mass of people have to "unplug from the matrix" before any large-scale changes can be detected. People were experimenting with communes and different types of economic arrangements outside of the military-industrial culture/economy. While they may have failed miserably, I applaud them for their efforts.
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