A Wild and Crazy Wisdom Guy (Chogyam Trungpa)

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Postby theeKultleeder » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:13 pm

American Dream wrote:
I have to respectfully disagree with theeKultleeder on this one. I urge you, the independent-minded reader, to not get hung up on tKl's wholesale discounting of this site through selective use of information, ad hominem attacks, and etc.


Willful misrepresentation on your part. Lies. Or maybe just an emotional reaction. I don't know. But the only little ad hominem I gave was "collecting empowerments." It is a logical inference based on the facts stated by the authors themselves. They were practicing Tibetan Buddhists for 22 years and "received the entire Nyingma transmission" including the highest teachings on Treckcho and Togal. After that they found they had nothing but resentment.

A person can get one teaching, practice it their entire life, and find some of that mystical attainment, or maybe just some insight. These people had an ENTIRE CANNON passed onto them to no avail. Why?

American Dream wrote: Do check out the site for yourself- if you bother to register and dig around, you will be more able to understand why I would call it a "treasure-trove" and assert that it does have good information on how the Tibetan hierarchy has been compromised by the CIA. If people want to discuss the merits of "American Buddha", I think we should start a new thread rather than "hijack" this one, but you can enter the site here: http://www.american-buddha.com


If everything has been compromised by the CIA (which it appears is the case in AD's world) then I guess you better pick your factions.


I don't have any opinions on any Lama or author etcetera, except whether not they are a good source of information.


In any case, notice as soon as AD is challenged, s/he then immediately derails into accusing me of all sorts of discussion no-no's. Interesting tactic.

I recommend you, oh independent minded reader, to read about the dark side of Indian and Buddhist traditions in the West, like Stripping the Gurus and the Trimondi book. But do, oh independent minded reader, bother to read some of the stuff from the other side.

I suppose I must be part of the Tibeto-CIA conspiracy, right American Dream?
Last edited by theeKultleeder on Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: tail of the tiger/ CHÖGYAM TRUNGPA & the american dr

Postby hanshan » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:17 pm

...


Already installed as the head of the Surmang monasteries in eastern Tibet, Chögyam Trungpa was forced to flee the country in 1959, at the age of 20. Barely escaping Chinese invaders, he and a small party of monks made the perilous journey over the Himalayas to India on horseback and on foot. From 1959-1963, by appointment of His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, Chögyam Trungpa served as the spiritual advisor for the Young Lamas Home School in Dalhousie, India.

In 1963, Chögyam Trungpa moved to England to study comparative religion, philosophy, and fine arts under a Spaulding Fellowship at Oxford University. During this time, he also studied Japanese flower arranging and received an instructors degree from the Sogetsu school. In 1967, he moved to Scotland, where he founded the Samye Ling meditation centre, the first Tibetan Buddhist practice centre in the West. Shortly thereafter, a variety of experiences--including a car accident that left him partially paralyzed on the left side of his body--led Chögyam Trungpa to the decision to give up his monastic vows and work as a lay teacher. In 1969, he published Meditation in Action, the first of fourteen books on the spiritual path published during his lifetime. The following year represented yet another turning point in Trungpa's life, when he married Diana Pybus and moved to the United States, where he established his first North American meditation centre, Tail of the Tiger (now known as Karmê-Chöling) in Barnet, Vermont.


emphasis added

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/vctr/ctrbio.html

Image

ho - hum


...
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Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:37 pm

hanshan wrote:
emphasis added


Hi hanshan-

What does the emphasis mean to you?

>AD
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re; deconstructing the rinpoche

Postby hanshan » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:54 pm

...

at one point he was responsible :

dalai lama appoints him overseer

moves to england & becomes a lay monk:

was pressured from above to rescind, etc.

the field's wide open - invent licence for licentiousness ('scuse the pun)


& he got his American start in Vermont - big point

...


edited
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Postby brekin » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:22 pm

Want to thank American Dream for posting this. Compelling stuff.
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Postby Horatio Hellpop » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:10 am

Gee, it's not like the aristocracy to be debauched hypocrites of the highest order. And let's face it, when we're talking about the lamas we are talking about aristocracy.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:14 am

Horatio Hellpop wrote:Gee, it's not like the aristocracy to be debauched hypocrites of the highest order. And let's face it, when we're talking about the lamas we are talking about aristocracy.


Image
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Postby Hammer of Los » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:06 pm

Yes, thanks for the post American Dream, very interesting biographical detail about Chogyam Trungpa.

Many years ago, I read a book (yes, I used to do that sort of thing) by Chogyam Trungpa, "Illusion's Game." I thought it was self-indulgent obscurantist nonsense, but then, I don't think I have ever understood Vajrayana. Perhaps I am simply not enough of an occultist/magician, more of a philosopher. Personally, I am more attracted to the Theravada teachings of the "original Buddhism," rather than the occultic and elaborate systems of Vajrayana (or even Mahayana for that matter.) Just for the record, I have read many dozens of books on Buddhism, and consider myself something of a "proto-buddhist/taoist."

I have also read plenty of stuff over the years from those Esalen linked chaps, such as John Lilly, Alan Watts, Fritjof Capra, Gary Zukav and others. I have also had a long term interest in such (twentieth century) guru-luminaries as Steiner, Gurdjieff, (the two) Krishnamurti('s), A C Swami Bhaktivedanta, the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and many others.

So, I'm not some knee jerk anti-New Ager, nor am I fundamentalist Christian. Just for the record, I think the premise that "spooks and spychiatrists are responsible for the formation and content of the "new age" (which I understand to refer to a focus on the "spiritual" dimension of life, based on a synthesis from a wide variety of sources)," is ludicrous.

Having said that, the historical record is undeniable, and the interest of such parties as the US military/security/intelligence apparatus in emerging ideas concerning consciousness, existence and the "spiritual" dimension is fascinating.

TKL, you seem a little touchy when people criticise your sacred cows. Take a chill pill man. By the way, I love ya.

One other thing. I don't trust guru's. As the buddha once allegedly said, you should take no-one's word for anything, unless it accord with one's own reason and common sense. In this world of bought-and-paid-for "experts," assuming the responsibility for one's own beliefs and thoughts and ideas is essential.
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Postby vanlose kid » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:19 pm

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Last edited by vanlose kid on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:37 pm

Hammer of Los wrote:So, I'm not some knee jerk anti-New Ager, nor am I fundamentalist Christian. Just for the record, I think the premise that "spooks and spychiatrists are responsible for the formation and content of the "new age" (which I understand to refer to a focus on the "spiritual" dimension of life, based on a synthesis from a wide variety of sources)," is ludicrous.

Having said that, the historical record is undeniable, and the interest of such parties as the US military/security/intelligence apparatus in emerging ideas concerning consciousness, existence and the "spiritual" dimension is fascinating.

TKL, you seem a little touchy when people criticise your sacred cows. Take a chill pill man. By the way, I love ya.



Well, yeah, a little. It's because my own thinking has been directly criticized with usually out-of-hand dismissals because it resembles something else someone decided they didn't like.

And that is precisely what I get angry about: people dismissing or bashing or demonizing something without even understanding it. And we often see it in the form of ad hominem: "The Dalai Lama was the secular leader of a feudal society and also the CIA gave him some money." That has little to nothing to do with what the Dalai Lama actually teaches. If people actually knew the material that they are criticizing I would be a little less touchy.

I would be a lot less touchy if people addressed my ideas on their own merits, rather than diverting to some wack-a-doo Marxist critique or conspiracy theory.

BTW, I agree with your position completely and , heck, I love you too.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:42 pm

vanlose kid wrote:on edit: imagine the buddha setting himself up as the "spiritual ruler" of a feudal kingdom of serfs. make sense to you?


Imagine Buddhism integrating into a tribal society and bringing in more civilization than the loose confederation of tribes had ever experienced... this includes a written alphabet, ethical and philosophical systems, and a marked decrease in violent conflict and the more primitive shamanistic practices.

What's your beef with Bon, anyway?
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