Andrew Morton's Tom Cruise bio 'shocking claims'

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Postby Eldritch » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:24 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:
FourthBase wrote:
Um. Please specify what this supposedly powerful "spiritual and psychological technology" is. Thanks. Either of you.


I'll give you a piece on a new thread. In the morning, kay?


FourthBase wrote:I guess. Don't expect me to be anything other than dismissive, though. I really cannot bear discussion which lauds any aspect of any form of Scientology.


Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time in answering your question then. :roll:

Even though I think Scientology is a dangerous cult—and I wouldn't recommend ANYONE have anything to do with it at all—still, if I happen to notice that a Scientologist has a nice hairdo (or something), I'm not going to divert my eyes from it JUST BECAUSE it's on a Scientologist.

Nor, if they manage to speak the truth on a social, political, or religious matter, am I going to ignore that truth just because it came out of the mouth of a Scientologist.

To do so would seem narrow to me.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:15 pm

Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time in answering your question then.

Even though I think Scientology is a dangerous cult—and I wouldn't recommend ANYONE have anything to do with it at all—still, if I happen to notice that a Scientologist has a nice hairdo (or something), I'm not going to divert my eyes from it JUST BECAUSE it's on a Scientologist.

Nor, if they manage to speak the truth on a social, political, or religious matter, am I going to ignore that truth just because it came out of the mouth of a Scientologist.

To do so would seem narrow to me.


So...again the question is: specifically what are the "powerful spiritual and psychological technologies" that are analogous to a nice hairdo (or something)?
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Postby nomo » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:22 pm

Eldritch wrote:Even though I think Scientology is a dangerous cult—and I wouldn't recommend ANYONE have anything to do with it at all—still, if I happen to notice that a Scientologist has a nice hairdo (or something), I'm not going to divert my eyes from it JUST BECAUSE it's on a Scientologist.


I refuse to go see a movie with Travolta in it. But I admit that's not just because he's a scientologist.

I saw "Legend" before news broke that Wil Smith might be a scientologist. Now I want my money back.

And I deleted the one Beck song I had on my iPod.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:34 pm

I usually clash with nomo, but I strive to do the same as him re: Scientologists. I sometimes get caught up in the novelty of seeing my hypothesized "entertainment industry monopoly" in action, like, "OMFG another blockbuster hit that'll be seen and absorbed by millions of ordinary Americans which stars a fucking brainwashed servant of one of the world's most hideous cults, how utterly bizarre...I gotta see it." But otherwise, I try to steer clear [pun not really intended -- have I mentioned how I hate how Scientology has spoiled for me the word "clear" and its derivatives?]. My friends get flustered when I request that they skip whatever Beck songs are on their IPod playlist. And yet, when "Nicotine and Gravy" comes on I relent and wind up enjoying the music, but not thoughtlessly like I used to, the enjoyment is still crowded by thoughts of how fucked up Beck is, how fucked up Scientology is, and a little fear of how the music could possibly carry some propaganda or subliminal messages, etc.
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Postby IanEye » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:51 pm

FourthBase wrote:My friends get flustered when I request that they skip whatever Beck songs are on their IPod playlist. And yet, when "Nicotine and Gravy" comes on I relent and wind up enjoying the music, but not thoughtlessly like I used to, the enjoyment is still crowded by thoughts of how fucked up Beck is, how fucked up Scientology is, and a little fear of how the music could possibly carry some propaganda or subliminal messages, etc.


I think we're going crazy
Things don't even faze me
Her left eye is lazy
Nicotine and gravy
Miracles amaze me
She looks so Israeli
Love the way she plays me
I think I'm going crazy

Image
I don't want to die tonight
I don't want to die tonight…..

Image
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Postby theeKultleeder » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:10 pm

FourthBase wrote: Denying the reality of behaviorism is stupid. I'm sick of stupid shit. Enough, everyone, with stupid shit.


You are the one who poses an either/or here. I never denied the success of behaviorism. It's fundamental principle, however, is that human beings are no more than complex stimulus-response machines.

Cognitive psychology is a much more realistic approach to understanding the human mind in a scientific way.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:22 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:
FourthBase wrote: Denying the reality of behaviorism is stupid. I'm sick of stupid shit. Enough, everyone, with stupid shit.


You are the one who poses an either/or here. I never denied the success of behaviorism. It's fundamental principle, however, is that human beings are no more than complex stimulus-response machines.


A principle which is only partially wrong, as evinced by the worldly success of its perpetrators. "Another part of this vast spiritual war for reality is believing that the world creates or controls you - this is called Behaviorism in the sciences". I partially believe it, and will continue to partially believe it, because it's partially true.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:36 pm

FourthBase wrote:A principle which is only partially wrong, as evinced by the worldly success of its perpetrators. "Another part of this vast spiritual war for reality is believing that the world creates or controls you - this is called Behaviorism in the sciences". I partially believe it, and will continue to partially believe it, because it's partially true.


Yeah, for sure. feedforward/feedback.

Its fundamental principle, however, is that human beings are no more than complex stimulus-response machines.

The infamous Phoenix Program was largely designed by behavioral scientists. I would just hate to see a world based entirely on the above principle.

You should read an article against behaviorism that had me ROTFLOL when I read it. It is a "general critique of behaviorist (I would now prefer to say "empiricist") speculation as to the nature of higher mental processes." It was written in response to BF Skinner's Verbal Behavior by Noam Chomsky in 1959.

Don't worry, it has nothing to do with JFK or 911. It is just science, psychology, philosophy, and linguistics. Read it over here.
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:45 pm

http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/Management%201981_83.html

What happened to the Church Management in 1981-83 and why?

In 1981 a dramatic change in Church Management started. Most of the top people, trained and posted personally by LRH was removed by a force greater than anything they had ever imagined. The takeover was executed with such a power that none of the existing leaders was able to keep their positions and fight back. David Mayo, Snr C/S Int, was effectively removed even though he was the top ranking Tech Terminal on the planet. To make him untouchable, LRH had him incorporate his own legal entity "Office of the Senior C/S International". He was not supposed to be touched by anyone, but he was brushed aside with ease and SP declared. Mary Sue Hubbard, head of GO, the entity that controled all of Scientology, was infiltrated and she ended up in jail. Bill Franks, ED International, posted for life by LRH, was removed an SP declared.

One can agree to some of these declares or not. I suppose it depends on your own first hand experiences. The point is that the force behind this takeover was so enormous that nobody was able to resist it. It simply wiped out all of the existing Management and it's success was a reality within a year or so.

Following was a complete clean up within the rest of the organization. Here in Denmark it is referred to as the "Yell & Scream Period". Staff was send on the DPF (Deck Project Force: A program with harsh ethics, heavy invalidations in front of a group, gang sec-check, hard mest work etc.). Sea Org staff was send on RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force: Similar to DPF except it was even more severe, heavy mest work, death threats, undernourishment etc.). Those who remained on staff showed great power by keeping their position despite all the dramatization, but they were now under the new Management's control. Those who would not conform would either leave or be SP declared or both. This was a complete clean up to make sure that everybody remaining in the organization was completely under control. When the new Management was satisfied this was achieved they lightened up a litlle bit, loosened the grip. They of course saw the enormous loss of people and knew that the Church would empty completely if they didn't take a lighter approached. But they would never lose control.

Who was behind?

Well, this issue SO ED 2104 INT will tell you who was behind. It was David Miscavige, Ray Mithoff, Guillaume Lesevre and a few others. Red SO ED 2104 INT and you will see who was running the show. You will also see how Ray Mithoff intimidates the crowd of Mission Holders, by threatening that nobody will ever get their OT levels unless they conform to Management. Everyone present was given pencil and paper and told not to leave before they had written their O/W's. The style of the new Management was clear.

Preventing OT, why?

The original LRH OT levels IV - VII was removed and replaced by NOTs. NOTs was already released in 1978, but at that time it was not considered an OT level as such. It was more something like an OT repair. But it anyway replaced the original OT levels IV - VII, which had been delivered at the AO's since 1968. Therefore NOTs is called New OT V, New OT VI and New OT VII. The original levels has since disappeared and Snr C/S Int, is not about to tell what happened to them. I did ask, but got no answer on the question. See my letter to Snr C/S Int. See his reply to me.

Since the success of the well documentet remote-viewing program at Standford Research Institute in the early seventies, the US government had a problem with Scientology. The Church of Scientology had a technology which could help people attain or improve OT abilities. The Standford Research Institute project had proven that an OT can influence a magnetic field with his thought. Since the guiding system for a nuclear missile is controlled by a magnetic field, people who did OT levels would potentially be able to control an atomic missile. They were also able to perform remote-viewing which meant that they could spy on the CIA and the American Military!!!

US government feared that OT's produced by the Church of Scientology would be able expose them and take over control!!!

This perspective posed a problem of proportions to CIA and the American government. Therefore they decided that Scientology was a "National Security Risk". A secret program was initiated to take over the Church and alter the technology so that OT's would not anymore be produced.

Ealier attempts had been made, LRH mention that several places:

HCO PL 30 Oct 1962 "SECURITY RISKS INFILTRATION" "As the organization rapidly expands, so will it be a growing temptation for antisurvival elements to gain entry and infiltrate, and attempts to plant will be made." - LRH

HCO PL 14 June 1965 "POLITICS, FREEDOM FROM" "The reason for this declaration is the consistent disaster visited upon her "allies" by the United States government and the efforts of that government since 1955, stepped up since 1963, to seize Scientology in the United States rather than forbid or stop it and the role played by the United States in inspiring the Victorian State attacks in Australia. Scientology Technology is no longer offered to the United States government in any effort to assist her in political ends." - LRH

But until the old man finally withdrew completely from the Church, attempted takeovers were never really succesfull. Plenty of problems was caused by plants, but the final takeover only succeeded after LRH pulled out. And of course one of the first Tech changes was the removal of the original OT levels. The ones which could produce real OT phenomena. But the Tech changes had already started in 1978 by removing Standard Dianetics and replacing it with New Era Dianetics which was not anymore delivered at the beginning of the Grade Chart. One of the most succesfull actions of all times was the delivery of Dianetics. People wants Dianetics, but with the introduction of New Era Dianetics one would not get Dianetics until after completing Grades O-IV. Yes, you could get "Book-One Auditing", but it was considered an intro service and not granted much importance, not even a part of the Grade Chart.

The current Managment clearly has no intention of producing OT's. I have had the two top people directly on my lines (Marty Rathburn and David Miscavige) and I assure you these leaders are proffessionals. They know exactly how to Name, Want and Get a product. If they really wanted to produce OT's then OT's would be produced. Instead they have now changed focus. The Volunteer Minister programme, Narconon, Criminon etc. Good projects no doubt, but it is a change of focus. LRH says the the Advanced levels are the most valuable services on this planet, but if you ask OSA they will tell you that OT is not really important. You should try asking them. That is what they will tell you; OT is not really important!!! And that attitude has been succesfully spread within the Church. What is really important is to go out and get new people into the orgs and to participate in projects which gives good PR in society. Well, of course, if you consider the org a business then it is of utmost importance to get new publics/customers and to create good PR in society, otherwise the business will not survive. Most of the old timers leave the Church or goes inactive and stop paying, so new income must be generated through new members.

The money game

Soon after the takeover the prices for services started to increase. Heavy focus was put on income. Fund raising, donations and increasing prices was the new order. This is still very much the case. Most Scientologists I know has quite some attention on money. It is typically an important factor when they evaluates their wins from auditing and training; How much they raised their income. And they have to be focused on income because the prices for upper levels are so high that they would never be able to pay for it with an ordinary income. This in spite of the fact the LRH actually wrote a very applicable policy on pricing:

HCO PL 23 Sep 1964 "POLICIES: DISSEMINATION AND PROGRAMS"

"THE COST OF A CERTIFICATE COURSE MAY NOT BE LESS THAN ONE MONTH'S AVERAGE PAY FOR THE AREA IN WHICH IT IS GIVEN AND MUST BE IN CASH.

By average is meant the average upper lower class or lower middle class pay scale."

"ONE WEEK'S PROCESS (25 HOURS) SHOULD COST AN AVERAGE MONTH'S PAY (AS IN TRAINING). But processing of a special nature at higher levels can be charged at higher rates." - LRH.

In other words ordinary people with an ordinary income should be able to affort going up the Bridge. And thinking about it, that does align beautifully with the stated purpose of "Clearing the Planet!"

This policy has been carefully forgotten. The money game is running full steam ahead in the Church of Scientology. If you cannot pay for expensive Auditing, there is no help to get in the Church. If you run out of hours in the midle of an unflat Rundown you will not be audited to EP (which is Standard Tech) until you have paid for a new 12½ intensive. I know this because I ran out of hours in the midle of an unflat OT V Rundown myself. They told me that this was very dangerous, but did not finish the process as I was out of hours. Obviously they find no grounds for trusting their own publics who are supposed to be highly ethical individuals.

IAS (International Association of Scientologists) persuade Scientologists to give huge donations in return for a prestigious title: Sponsor, Honor Roll and Patron. You also get a little pin for your jacket and a certificate, totally worthless, but people go for the title, the position in the Scientology society. It is pure vanity, a well surveyed button, and it works.

WISE (World Institute of Scientology Enterprices) enforce that every Scientologists who is running a business should pay 10% of their turnover in royalties. This is enforced for companies and individuals who use LRH Management Technology. The fact that, according to the copyright laws, you cannot charge anybody for using what he reads in a book, is carefully ignored. They have invented WISE as a money making machine. You will find NOWHERE any mention of WISE from LRH. He did not invent it, the new Management did.

As every Scientologist know, RTC - headed by David Miscavige, is running the entirety of Scientology today. But did they in fact ever get authorization from L. Ron Hubbard? The only reference from LRH which validates RTC is Ron's Journal 38. A voice supposed to be LRH grants full authority to RTC. But somebody could not accept this voice as being LRH and had a voice scan made:



I can only recommed that you get a copy of this tape and listen for yourself. If you compare it to other LRH tape lectures you will hear that RJ38 is not by LRH. It is just sales talk rubbish, and completely missing the theta of LRH. It also lack the humour we are used to. The voice does to some degree sound like LRH, but then again, there are plenty of people specializing in impersonations. It would not have been a major problem to find somebody who sounded like LRH. And this is RTC's only "proof" of the validity of their own existence!!!!!

From a source in Florida I have got the name and a picture of the guy who possibly recorded RJ38. These are not yet published, as the source has required confidentiality, but here is a quote from our correspondance:

Q: Thanks very much. Do you have any further documentation about this guy and his impersionation of LRH??

A: These are the reasons I believe it was him.

1. I recognized his voice when I heard it. It was like a light bulb suddenly went off in my head. I told other people who knew him and when they listened close they all agreed that it did sound like him even though they looked a bit leery. For me it was obvious.

2. He was the boyfriend of a rich lady who frequently traveled to Flag for NOTs auditing.

3. He was a former professional disk jockey, so he was used to addressing audiences.

4. He had a smooth, mellow baritone voice.

5. At events he often was seen at the church in conversations with an entourage of Flag personnel who were dressed in their uniforms, as though they were old acquaintances or they had some special interest in him. At the time I thought this was very peculiar since he never took a course and showed no interest in Scientology. In fact, he appeared to look down on scientologists in kind of a snobbish way.

6. He was from Massachusetts, the area of the country where voice analysts had said his speech pattern was from.

7. For a period of several months (around 9 months or so) he suddenly disappeared from the Orlando scene. When I asked about him, his lady friend said he'd gone back to Massachusetts to visit for a while. He showed up again shortly after the tape came out.


On these links you will find pertinent information about the takeover.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gs/crimtime.htm#OpenLetter

http://www.davidicke.net/emagazine/vol2 ... ology.html

Debrief from Captain Bill Robertson

Open letter from Captain Bill Robertson

A briefing by Jon Atack
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:58 pm

The above article is not particularly well written but nonetheless very interesting as it seems to imply that LRH did in fact have some powerful technology in the old original OT levels and that it was replaced by a generic version during the takeover. Was this an intelligence agency takeover to supress something that was a threat to the establishment?

Does anyone know why LRH left the Church in the 80s? I never read much about this, was there a falling out?

What was the relationship between Miscavige and LRH?
Last edited by MASONIC PLOT on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:11 pm

MASONIC PLOT wrote:
Does anyone know why LRH left the Church in the 80s? I never read much about this, was there a falling out?


He was wanted by several courts, in this country and internationally. Atack's story from inner-circle eyewitnesses is that he grew increasingly paranoid and bizarre in his behavior. He withdrew completely, took to wearing disguises, and communicated with the scientology hierarchy only through go-betweens.

A Piece of Blue Sky is a great place to start.

Some of the old OT levels are very interesting. The best place to see what that was all about is The Creation of Human Ability. If you want to look at it, make sure you find one of the early editions. The church is now altering the "scriptures," don't ya know...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Creati ... an_Ability
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:19 pm

R2-45....
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Postby theeKultleeder » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:25 pm

MASONIC PLOT wrote:R2-45....


Well, during lectures he would bring out the pistol and fire it into the stage. "That's R2-45."

It isn't really spooky, because the whole book is about inducing out-of-body experiences, and death is the one "exteriorization" process that everybody can figure out on their own.

It is spooky, however, if you ever hear a scientologist say, "let's just run R2-45 on the bastard."
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Nah, I dont think it is spooky at all, I find Scientology to be quite fascinating myself. I dont care much for the politics/institutionalization of it, and have pretty much stayed away from that in my readings so as not to develop an irrational bias, but I have studied Dianetics and read about 15 of LRH's books and I find it be very interesting and perhaps even helpful on many levels.

I am going to read the few you have suggested and add those to my LRH library.

Feel free to PM me any good links etc.
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gag

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:59 pm

The Standford Research Institute project had proven that an OT can influence a magnetic field with his thought. Since the guiding system for a nuclear missile is controlled by a magnetic field, people who did OT levels would potentially be able to control an atomic missile. They were also able to perform remote-viewing which meant that they could spy on the CIA and the American Military!!!


:roll:

Anybody who doesn't think the CIA is using an organization that has latched onto Hollywood's short and curlies is nuts.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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