The "Christian" Mafia

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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby cptmarginal » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:14 am

Was going to post this in the "Quotes Only" thread but it can just go here instead. I've got no problem with separating the person from the subject at hand. Rarely if ever do I look at AD's big would-be data dump threads, and it takes a pile-on like the current one for me to even care about people lambasting him (13000 posts, I think he's got it covered.)

But there's plenty of threads American Dream started over the years that took off on their own - the Jeffrey Epstein one being a good example.

And on the topic of Epstein, this is probably an appropriate excerpt that I came here to post:

IanEye » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:52 pm wrote:“Hey,” David Coe said, “let's talk about the Old Testament. Who would you say are its good guys?”

“David,” Beau volunteered.

“King David,” David Coe said. “That's a good one. David. Hey. What would you say made King David a good guy?” He was giggling, not from nervousness but from barely containable delight.

“Faith?” Beau said. “His faith was so strong?”

“Yeah.” David nodded as if he hadn't heard that before. “Hey, you know what's interesting about King David?” From the blank stares of the others I could see that they did not. Many didn't even carry a Hebrew Bible, preferring a slim volume of just the New Testament Gospels and Epistles and, from the Old, Psalms. Others had the whole book, but the gold gilt on the pages of the first two thirds remained undisturbed. “King David,” David Coe went on, “liked to do really, really bad things.” He chuckled. “Here's this guy who slept with another man's wife—Bathsheba, right?—and then basically murders her husband. And this guy is one of our heroes.” David shook his head. “I mean, Jiminy Christmas, God likes this guy! What,” he said, “is that all about?”

The answer, we discovered, was that King David had been “chosen.” To illustrate this point David Coe turned to Beau. “Beau, let's say I hear you raped three little girls. And now here you are at Ivanwald. What would I think of you, Beau?”

Beau shrank into the cushions. “Probably that I'm pretty bad?”

“No, Beau. I wouldn't. Because I'm not here to judge you. That's not my job. I'm here for only one thing.”

“Jesus?” Beau said. David smiled and winked.

He walked to the National Geographic map of the world mounted on the wall. “You guys know about Genghis Khan?” he asked. “Genghis was a man with a vision. He conquered”—David stood on the couch under the map, tracing, with his hand, half the northern hemisphere—“nearly everything. He devastated nearly everything. His enemies? He beheaded them.” David swiped a finger across his throat. “Dop, dop, dop, dop.”


http://harpers.org/archive/2003/03/jesus-plus-nothing/

From the book:

Coe cites one of his favorite scripture verses, Matthew 18:20, “When two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them.” “Hitler, Goebbels, and Himmler were three men. Think of the immense power these three men had, these nobodies from nowhere. Actually emotional and mental problems. Prisoners. From the streets. But they bound themselves together in an agreement and they died together. Two years before they moved into Poland these three men had a study done, systematically a plan drawn out and put on paper to annihilate the entire Polish population and destroy by numbers every single house”—he bangs the podium, dop, dop, dop—“and every single building in Warsaw and then start on the rest of Poland.”

It worked, Coe says; they killed 6 1/2 million “Polish people”. (The actual sum was closer to 5 1/2 million, 3 million of whom were Polish Jews. But that, as Stalin would say, is just a statistic.)

“These three men by their decision alone.” What he’s trying to explain, Coe says, is the power of friendship: between man and Christ, between brothers in Christ.
The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:00 pm

The Christian Right's Grand Conspiracy Narrative

All about the Alinsky / Obama / socialist conspiracy against Christianity and freedom revealed by Gingrich


Gingrich's claims echo those of the Tea Parties, Glenn Beck, the John Birch Society, and the 1990s Militia Movement.

To an alarming extent the frame of Obama bringing socialism to America includes allegations that Obama and his allies are part of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Whether this conspiracy tracks back to Marx or Satan is open to debate. Further to the Right are recruiters for White supremacist groups suggesting the conspirators are Jews or Muslims using Obama as a puppet. This is not a healthy dynamic for civil society—and we have seen it before.

This campaign--aimed at rolling back the polices of the Franklin Roosevelt Administration has always been a loose-knit coalition of large corporate interests, small business owners, economic libertarians, anti-union activists, conservative Christians, and moral traditionalists. They all share an antipathy to collectivism in general. Their opposition to taxes, however, is selective. For example, they tend to support funds for the military and law enforcement, but tend to oppose government programs that weave a social safety net.

Anti-Obama rhetoric circulating in the Tea Party movement suggests Obama is a puppet of liberal elites and socialists. This mimics 1960s claims calling the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. a dupe of a communist conspiracy—circulated by groups such as the ultra-conservative John Birch Society, the all-White “Citizens Councils,” and the Ku Klux Klan. Billboards and flyers with this message appeared across the South. Postcards were distributed nationwide. This storyline has more than a little racist baggage.


Image


ImageThe anti-left red-baiting of Obama echoes the same charges made against President Roosevelt claiming he was a socialist, a fascist, or both. Some authors, such as Elizabeth Dilling, added antisemitic conspiracy theories to the attack on the New Deal.

After World War Two this theme re-emerged as militant Red Scare anticommunism which demonized liberals, union and community organizers, peace activists, socialists, gay people, Jews, and people of color. The “McCarthy Period” anticommunist witch hunts stretched from the late 1940s to the early 1960s.




Elizabeth Dilling, 1936, The Roosevelt Red Record and its Background, Chicago: self–published.




http://www.researchforprogress.us/conce ... index.html
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby slimmouse » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:27 pm

The anti-left red-baiting of Obama echoes the same charges made against President Roosevelt claiming he was a socialist, a fascist, or both. Some authors, such as Elizabeth Dilling, added antisemitic conspiracy theories to the attack on the New Deal.

After World War Two this theme re-emerged as militant Red Scare anticommunism which demonized liberals, union and community organizers, peace activists, socialists, gay people, Jews, and people of color. The “McCarthy Period” anticommunist witch hunts stretched from the late 1940s to the early 1960s.


The summary of this article in a thread apparently titled Christian Mafia, is at best a tad confusing.

Your own thoughts AD? I will unquestionably forgive you if you say that they are completely fucked up, when it comes to making sense of this kind of stuff.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:27 am

slimmouse » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:27 pm wrote:
The anti-left red-baiting of Obama echoes the same charges made against President Roosevelt claiming he was a socialist, a fascist, or both. Some authors, such as Elizabeth Dilling, added antisemitic conspiracy theories to the attack on the New Deal.

After World War Two this theme re-emerged as militant Red Scare anticommunism which demonized liberals, union and community organizers, peace activists, socialists, gay people, Jews, and people of color. The “McCarthy Period” anticommunist witch hunts stretched from the late 1940s to the early 1960s.


The summary of this article in a thread apparently titled Christian Mafia, is at best a tad confusing.

Your own thoughts AD? I will unquestionably forgive you if you say that they are completely fucked up, when it comes to making sense of this kind of stuff.


What specifically is confusing you?
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby slimmouse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:36 am

American Dream » 13 Jan 2015 14:27 wrote:
slimmouse » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:27 pm wrote:
The anti-left red-baiting of Obama echoes the same charges made against President Roosevelt claiming he was a socialist, a fascist, or both. Some authors, such as Elizabeth Dilling, added antisemitic conspiracy theories to the attack on the New Deal.

After World War Two this theme re-emerged as militant Red Scare anticommunism which demonized liberals, union and community organizers, peace activists, socialists, gay people, Jews, and people of color. The “McCarthy Period” anticommunist witch hunts stretched from the late 1940s to the early 1960s.


The summary of this article in a thread apparently titled Christian Mafia, is at best a tad confusing.

Your own thoughts AD? I will unquestionably forgive you if you say that they are completely fucked up, when it comes to making sense of this kind of stuff.


What specifically is confusing you?


The summary.... all of it.

Would you care to explain this in any fashion that makes any reasonable sense, other than the blurting out of elite designed memes?
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:04 am

Which are the "elite-designed memes" you see, and how do you know that is what they are? In other, words, on what specific evidence?
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby slimmouse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:10 am

American Dream » 13 Jan 2015 15:04 wrote:Which are the "elite-designed memes" you see, and how do you know that is what they are? In other, words, on what specific evidence?


Id probably have to think about that for a while.

Meanwhile, All I''m really interested in is your own analysis of the summary. It was my original question

What it actually means.

Here it is again, to save you going to look,

The anti-left red-baiting of Obama echoes the same charges made against President Roosevelt claiming he was a socialist, a fascist, or both. Some authors, such as Elizabeth Dilling, added antisemitic conspiracy theories to the attack on the New Deal.

After World War Two this theme re-emerged as militant Red Scare anticommunism which demonized liberals, union and community organizers, peace activists, socialists, gay people, Jews, and people of color. The “McCarthy Period” anticommunist witch hunts stretched from the late 1940s to the early 1960s.




What do you think is actually being said here ?
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:19 am

The opening statement of the piece lays it out pretty clearly and I am in basic agreement:

Gingrich's claims echo those of the Tea Parties, Glenn Beck, the John Birch Society, and the 1990s Militia Movement.

To an alarming extent the frame of Obama bringing socialism to America includes allegations that Obama and his allies are part of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Whether this conspiracy tracks back to Marx or Satan is open to debate. Further to the Right are recruiters for White supremacist groups suggesting the conspirators are Jews or Muslims using Obama as a puppet. This is not a healthy dynamic for civil society—and we have seen it before.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby slimmouse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:42 am

American Dream » 13 Jan 2015 15:19 wrote:The opening statement of the piece lays it out pretty clearly and I am in basic agreement:

Gingrich's claims echo those of the Tea Parties, Glenn Beck, the John Birch Society, and the 1990s Militia Movement.

To an alarming extent the frame of Obama bringing socialism to America includes allegations that Obama and his allies are part of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Whether this conspiracy tracks back to Marx or Satan is open to debate. Further to the Right are recruiters for White supremacist groups suggesting the conspirators are Jews or Muslims using Obama as a puppet. This is not a healthy dynamic for civil society—and we have seen it before.


Me too.

What is there not to agree with?

This is just an out and tirade of the worst kind of alternative understandings currently in existence.

I think its a hit piece on alternative understandings myself.

However, I still fail to see its relevance to the OP.

Which was one of my other compllaints.

And, with all due respect AD, you still havent addressed your own take on the summary.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:07 pm

Aren't you a true believer in right wing doctrines such as that Karl Marx was an emissary of satanic conspiracies organized by Illuminati Jews, Freemasonic child sacrificers and whatnot?

Because of course I think that's utter shite.

I think there's plenty of legitimate ways to criticize the policies and histories of Marxist-Leninist states but those are much more rigorous and subject to critical reflection in a way that the fantastical and bizarre mythology of the far right is not.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby slimmouse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:12 pm

American Dream » 13 Jan 2015 16:07 wrote:Aren't you a true believer in right wing doctrines such as that Karl Marx was an emissary of satanic conspiracies organized by Illuminati Jews, Freemasonic child sacrificers and whatnot?

Because of course I think that's utter shite.

I think there's plenty of legitimate ways to criticize the policies and histories of Marxist-Leninist states but those are much more rigorous and subject to critical reflection in a way that the fantastical and bizarre mythology of the far right is not.


You call that any kind of an answer to an attempt to engage you, you ignoramus. Look it up. Despite the Roman roots, Its a very legitimate description.

Can I, before leaving this useless piece of shit thread, say that, I personally want nothing more to do with you, or your senseless rhetoric for the rest of eternity.

Which means it should all probably best end now.

All the best Bro.

Edited to add.

AD, youre throwing your life away whilst indulging in this stupidity.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:08 pm

I don't think a rational discussion is very possible with you as I don't think your assumptions are subject to rational examination, in the sense that most everyone means those words. So really, yeah, I have been humoring you, based on the very faint hope that you might come up with meaningful evidence in support of these sorts of bizarre beliefs.

On this though, you are right. It is going nowhere and there really is no point.
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:42 pm

Image
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:59 pm

American Dream » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:08 pm wrote:I don't think a rational discussion is very possible with you as I don't think your assumptions are subject to rational examination, in the sense that most everyone means those words. So really, yeah, I have been humoring you, based on the very faint hope that you might come up with meaningful evidence in support of these sorts of bizarre beliefs.

On this though, you are right. It is going nowhere and there really is no point.


I think this is truly a weird and bizarre response.
It is coming from someone who regards CopyPasta from random -often BS - sources (like Soros neolibcon network BS sources) as being a form of rational discussion. As many people have pointed out to you, your ongoing labelling and Othering (such as the patronising response above) - this is not the same as debating ideas.
Similarly you seem to be confusing discussion with debate. Discussion involves listening and exploring, something with you don't do if it is outside your cognitive safety zone. The only david Icke discussion here happened before you joined. It was GREAT there were loads of viewpoints, forcefully expressed, thought trails hiked, humour expressed. And then it finished and no-one gave a fuck about him. Then you came along and went hysterical at the mention of him and started your your RI WitchHunt, then started your CopyPasta extravaganzas.

If you treat people in real life how you engage with them here, I am left to imagine your life as a series of bar brawls.

My request to you is to stop multiple cross-posting as a means of bumping your threads. It is unethical and manipulative. This is a community, NOT your private link farm on Jeff Well's dollar.

Your attitude in my opinion begs the question that Willow posed that remains unanswered by you.
I add a question to hers. Why do you not answer her question?
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Re: The "Christian" Mafia

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:45 pm

slimmouse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:12 am wrote:Edited to add.

AD, youre throwing your life away whilst indulging in this stupidity.


:thumbsup

Please make peace with watching that process without commentary. You have no interest in real discussion with AD, who has no interest in real discussion with you.

Known Knowns don't need to get re-hashed every seven days, knowing them is sufficient.
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