The Bourne Ultimatum: rejecting the CIA

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

During the Reagan 80s there was a huge psyops effort made to purge 'Vietnam Syndrome' and bury all the cultural links to peace. Hijacking the name "Bourne" was one of these efforts.

The whole point of Robert Ludlum's use of the name "Bourne" was to create an association that displaces Randolph Bourne's 1916 expose of war as social control and economy called 'War and the Intellectuals' wherein he lines out exactly how "war is the health of the state."

Randolph Bourne blew the whistle during WWI, twenty years before General Smedley Butler did the same by writing 'War is a Racket' right after he'd blown the whistle on Wall Street's attempted coup against FDR.

So any association of the name "Bourne" with CIA shenanigans is a psyops victory.

[kristinerosemary]

well, maybe not, the family name bourne has some independent connotations that are fairly
interesting also.

[OP ED]

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Hm, good point. Despite the usual Hollywoodized politics, and even with the two good-woman characters of "Pamela Lundy" and the one played by Julia Stiles (interestingly both female), both are rather isolated throughout and barely escape being killed or serving as the fall guy-gals. The Bourne movies are definitely bad for CIA recruitment.

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you think so?
i'd think rather the opposite. they create the sense that progressive [good guy] elements of the CIA are out there saving the lives of sympathetic women. Also that they will ultimately self-police themselves away from their more exteme elements, which is a fairy tale if i've ever heard one. All of these movies are popular with the soldier-types i know, because it feeds the illusion of good vs. evil. Bourne succeeds because he better exemplefies the unilateral use of force to pursue a "right cause" by whatever means neccessary.

[JackRiddler]

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OP ED:

Do we have conflicting points, I wonder? I can see how the soldier-types you know love the pacing, the awesome and real-seeming violence choreography, and the victory of the good guy's superior force in the Bourne movies. But they're already soldier types.

What I can't see is anyone who isn't already set on joining the CIA watching the Bourne movies and deciding it's a great, wonderful outfit they want to join. Although I also doubt these films discouraged many people who were leaning to joining, if any.

Anyway, they're not out-and-out whitewash and recruitment films in the mold of Alias or the MI series, they are explicitly saying the CIA is criminal and does harm to the world on behalf of deep state-corporate-imperial interests, and even if the most extreme crimes are exposed, the organization as a whole keeps at it and the victorious Bourne remains a fugitive.

If you say however that the movies contribute to the general blase attitude to violence around the world, however, in the way that almost all action and violence films do, I'd probably be forced to concede mate in a couple of moves.

And maybe six or seven people who see the films decided to research the real-world subjects they involve who wouldn't have otherwise, but maybe not.

But if you're into RI mindsets and subjects and like action movies, you'll probably have a rocking time with them. So that's my final answer.

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[Hugh Manatee Wins]

CIA wants badass types, not the naive romanticists who think 007 is real.

'Jason Bourne' accomplishes this.

Recent propaganda ('Tinker Bell' honeypot training and inoculation against Lindsey Moran's complaints) indicates that the CIA is not interested in wasting time, money, and information on people who are going to quit when the ugliness of CIA covert op reality becomes evident.

Better to advertise ugly and get realistic recruits.

[Penguin]

CIA wants badass types, not the naive romanticists who think 007 is real.

'Jason Bourne' accomplishes this.

Better to advertise ugly and get realistic recruits.

Aye. This the way I see it. Why advertise to the types you dont want..Pussies.

[AlanStrangis]

on the other hand, i'm often struck by how readily hollywood depicts police/military/government as faceless totalitarian goons interfering with everything that's "right".

Spielberg for example - and many monster/alien films.......

they generate sympathy and empathy for the alien, and pose civil and military defence as a domestic threat.

Who would join the police after watching ET?

Are you talking about Classic Spielberg's ET where the agents carried guns, or New Spielberg's ET, where all threat is removed digitally by replacing the guns with walkie talkies?

"Seriously, we're just trying to HELP the little guy"

[sunny]

Have you noticed how both the Bourne movies and the just-cancelled My Own Worst Enemy portray mind control programing as something in which the victims consciously chose to participate?

IOW, the public picks up the notion that mind control is nasty but voluntary and that stalwart Good Guy warriors were just trying to do the right thing by heroically volunteering for the programs. Later, of course, their programing begins to break down and they rebel when they become aware of the terrible things they've been used to do.

Don't get me wrong--I'm thrilled to see the public at least become minimally aware of the programs' existence, but I deplore the deliberate and very misleading twist that's being placed on the reality of nonconsensual human experimentation and trafficking.

LilyPat

PS sunny, I'm a Bourne fan too. The announcement that there'll be a 4th installment thrilled me!

I can't help it. The idea of a heroic good guy, fighting the bad guys and beating them at their own game by turning what they taught him back against them...I don't know, it taps into something ancient and visceral and totally unrealistic, I must admit, this idea of a Knight on a white horse, saving the day. Nevertheless, the yearning fantasy thrives and it's a real pleasure seeing it enacted in such a gut-wrenching, breathtaking fashion by an actor who seems engulfed in the character and completely committed to the task.

[LilyPatToo]

sunny said:

I can't help it. The idea of a heroic good guy, fighting the bad guys and beating them at their own game by turning what they taught him back against them...I don't know, it taps into something ancient and visceral and totally unrealistic, I must admit, this idea of a Knight on a white horse, saving the day. Nevertheless, the yearning fantasy thrives and it's a real pleasure seeing it enacted in such a gut-wrenching, breathtaking fashion by an actor who seems engulfed in the character and completely committed to the task.

Same here. And if the knight/white horse concept is irresistible to you, imagine the visceral punch it has for people who've been endangered for as long as they can remember.

What I'd really love to know is whether Matt Damon's consciousness has been raised at all about the Real Life mind control programs as he's immersed himself in these three films? Most Liberals I know have completely bought into the "It's just one of those wacky conspiracy theories" crap, so most of them never bother to seek out the mostly hidden-in-plain-sight, thoroughly disinfo-corrupted history of mind control.

I've resigned myself to the likelihood that, should MC slaves ever be rescued/freed, it's overwhelmingly likely to be done by Conservative warrior-types. As of now, they seem to be the only ones who are paying attention to the evidence

LilyPat

[sunny]

Same here. And if the knight/white horse concept is irresistible to you, imagine the visceral punch it has for people who've been endangered for as long as they can remember.

What I'd really love to know is whether Matt Damon's consciousness has been raised at all about the Real Life mind control programs as he's immersed himself in these three films? Most Liberals I know have completely bought into the "It's just one of those wacky conspiracy theories" crap, so most of them never bother to seek out the mostly hidden-in-plain-sight, thoroughly disinfo-corrupted history of mind control.

I've resigned myself to the likelihood that, should MC slaves ever be rescued/freed, it's overwhelmingly likely to be done by Conservative warrior-types. As of now, they seem to be the only ones who are paying attention to the evidence

LilyPat

As thoughtful and intelligent as Damon seems,(the fact of which gives his Bourne character added depth a lot of other actors would be unable to reach) I wouldn't be suprised to learn that he wasn't averse to giving the idea a fair hearing, at the very least. He cannot NOT have heard of MKUltra, and must surely know that his character is not beyond the realm of possibility.(the mind contolled part of the character, not the Knight-on-a-white-horse part. ) I know that as of several years ago, circa Good Will Hunting, he had gotten as far as Zinn's A People's History of the United States in his political self-education, so I would hope he has progressed well beyond that point by now.

[Skunkboy]

Matt Damon seems pretty with it. Here's a Youtube link from him concerning Gov. Palin that came out before the election. You might have already seen it, but he comes off as very thoughtful and sincere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

[LilyPatToo]

Matt Damon IS with it and thoughtful and intelligent. But so are just about all of our friends...yet exactly *one* of them is aware of the existence of the mind control programs in the US and also can see in my bizarre life history signs of growing up in a series of them. Just one person out of the half-dozen I've told about it....that's discouraging as hell to me.

IMHO, most bright, well-educated Liberals are almost as deeply asleep as are the Herd. They live in denial of the Really Bad Stuff and if you try to wake one up, they're really annoyed to have had their Denial disturbed And they don't have the excuse of stupidity or of being unable to question authority, either. It's a selective and voluntary ignorance.

I suspect it's the result of a half century of wildly successful "social engineering" via the mass media. And perhaps of a desire to believe the best of people.

LilyPat

[brainpanhandler]

I suspect it's the result of a half century of wildly successful "social engineering" via the mass media. And perhaps of a desire to believe the best of people.

Agreed, although I would amend the latter to, "an inability to believe just how inhumane people can be to one another". While it is true that modern cinema blurrs the line between reality and fiction, especially in the actual experiencing of it and especially wrt "reality" media, which is itself a form of mind manipulation, nonetheless, when the credits roll and the lights come up and you make you're way out to the parking lot, there is the identical feeling of waking from a nightmare, that "Whew, it was only a dream" feeling. Which translates into the common sentiment, "That stuff only happens in the movies".

Once a subject like mind control is dropped into the thought bottle, "that stuff only happens in the movies", on a large, society wide scale, the subject is forever closed off to a lot of people. The closest most people come to breaking open that bottle and looking closer at the contents is to wonder, "What if it's true?"

[Penguin]

Once a subject like mind control is dropped into the thought bottle, "that stuff only happens in the movies", on a large, society wide scale, the subject is forever closed off to a lot of people. The closest most people come to breaking open that bottle and looking closer at the contents is to wonder, "What if it's true?"

Its taken me several years to slowly describe these things to my closest person in life. Several years, bit by bit, Ive explained why I think down the rabbit hole there is stuff that its imperative we understand. In other issues we are very similar, and this persons intelligence and outlook is such that there isnt as much inertia as otherwise. Still, it takes a relationship which is built on trust and respect to even be able to talk about these issues.

When we started dating, a common friend warned about marrying me - "hes a conspiracy theorist" Damn, its such a stigma, and you will get it so easily. That one was half in jest of course...
Throw your set up in the air, been my guideline for a long time. I dont care how weird the reality Im in is - anything is possible, and "the opposite of natural is impossible". Love, respect, my dear friends.

[the_last_name_left]

on the other hand, i'm often struck by how readily hollywood depicts police/military/government as faceless totalitarian goons interfering with everything that's "right".

Spielberg for example - and many monster/alien films.......

they generate sympathy and empathy for the alien, and pose civil and military defence as a domestic threat.

Who would join the police after watching ET?

Are you talking about Classic Spielberg's ET where the agents carried guns, or New Spielberg's ET, where all threat is removed digitally by replacing the guns with walkie talkies?

"Seriously, we're just trying to HELP the little guy"

Is that right?

Nevertheless, I still can't see the govt goons coming over as anything but in a negative way. That was the INTENT of the original version?

Maybe it's just me, but every alien/monster film ends with my feeling sympathy for the alien/monster as they're hunted down and exterminated for their perfectly natural behaviour.