Questioning Consciousness

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:29 am


https://outsidetherealitymachine.wordpr ... -the-soul/

Consciousness isn’t a box of chocolates for the soul

by Jon Rappoport
January 17, 2018

I’ve long had a bone to pick with so-called New Age versions of consciousness, because they tend to lead to passivity.

The word “consciousness” is a kind of convenience, a general reference to the fact that the individual is conscious, aware.

He is not “partaking” of a thing called consciousness.

It is an irreducible fact that the individual is aware. Whether that means he is aware he is reading these words right now, or he is aware that a particular Chinese farmer named Li Po is pausing to drink water as he tills a field on the edge of the Gobi desert, six thousand miles away, the individual is aware.

This fact is not an artifact created by the brain. The brain is composed of tiny particles that are not aware on their own, in the view of conventional physicists. Yet those same scientists assert that this organ in the skull somehow gives rise to you being conscious. Dead end.

Nor is consciousness a steady state or a field. Those ideas, again, are mere conveniences, vague metaphors that stand in for the fact that THE INDIVIDUAL IS AWARE. The individual isn’t “plugging into” something called consciousness. He IS conscious.

The individual can be more conscious or less conscious, but in either case he isn’t “entering” “collective consciousness” or “cosmic consciousness.” If he is aware, somehow, of what is happening at a specific spot in someone else’s mind or on the far side of the moon, then that is what he is conscious of. He isn’t becoming aware of these realities because he walked through a door called “higher consciousness.”

A person who believes, like an article of religious faith, he is “partaking” of a “larger reality” called “consciousness” tends to go passive. He becomes disposed to staying in what he supposes is a “better place.”

A person who knows he is conscious tends to opt for action. And hopefully, creative action.

You could picture the-individual-being-conscious as the platform or the bedrock from which he imagines, creates, invents. Invents his desired future. Some misguided people believes this means he becomes self-absorbed and no longer cares about the world. This is not necessarily the case at all.

Charlie Chaplin once did a ballet routine in a movie. After the scene was shot, someone asked him where he’d learned to dance like that. Chaplin stared at him. “I’m an actor,” he said. Chaplin had invented himself as a dancer for the moment.

Humans can invent themselves in many roles. This is an aspect of their creative power. Which is unlimited.

In my collection, Exit From the Matrix, I include over 50 imagination exercises I developed, for the express purpose of deepening the individual’s access to his own creativity.

As for the technocrats’ vaunted Singularity, where the brain, hooked up to a super-computer, leaps into a new level of consciousness, this is more unsupported New Age drivel. Even assuming the hookup somehow works, the only thing the human brain would gain is more data and processing power—which doesn’t equal consciousness…
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:10 am

chump,

Very much in favor of any attempt to define or describe consciousness. Rappoport approaches consciousness as if he absolutely and finally knows what it is, and imposes it on the reader. Dawkins' doppelganger.

A familiarity with Jaynes' survey would be helpful. Not that I agree with all of Jaynes' conclusions--part of the beauty of the discussion. Too bad the manuscript for the followup to 'The Origin of Consciousness' has disappeared without a trace.

He does however separate consciousness from action (a consensus on that) which dada does not. He does conflate awareness and consciousness (even using sloppy circular definition), which Jaynes argues against at length. Again, part of the beauty of the discussion. Definitions of terms. Consider building a consensus. Then the work begins.

Something, something...
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:10 pm

Every morning is a brand new day... maybe that's why we design it that way.


Do you actually conjecture that ancient Egyptians were not conditioned?





Someone suggested (just above) we should probably be aware of the way our words will wreck reality - if we're not really watching what they mean. So, doesn't it make some semblance of sense we should also be sensitive to the subconscious messages we constantly experience in mainstream media?


Try to remember, before words there were wind, noises, tones and music.


TV rumors rally the rich… Bull or bear? Boys wanna be(er) like Justin Bieber, Girls wanna grind like Miley Cyrus... Or maybe you'll buy a brand new oozi to march in the band like a matinee movie macho marvel... Tried and trued technical teams are mutually assuredly still experimenting with playing the percentages - trying and testing an unsuspecting population with not so secret shocking technology and subtle subliminal transmitting tricks - manipulating music, movies and multi-media to mainstream the masses to make themselves - a more programmable - less problematic, productive, purposeful, profitable people for the PTB to contemplate…


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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:02 pm

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:12 am

Tell us more about "correspondences between categories".

I opened Riane Eisler’s book, The Chalice and the Blade at random and found this bit that relates minime’s question.
Discussion related to this seems better here than over in the Jordan Peterson, Ian McGilcrist thread. I typed this out and am not a good typist so I hope somebody appreciates this.

Pg. 105 Chapter 8
So successful had the transformation of reality been that this seemingly self evident fact- that the way a society structures the most fundamental of human relations profoundly affects all aspects of living and thinking-was in time almost totally obscured. As a result, even our complex modern languages, with technical terms for everything one can and cannot imagine, have no gender specific words describe the profound difference between what we have until now called a dominator and a partnership society.

At best, we have words like matriarchy to describe the opposite of patriarchy. But these words only reinforce the prevailing view of reality (and “human nature”) by describing two sides of the same coin. More-over by bring to mind emotion-laden and conflicting images of tyrannical fathers and wise old men, patriarchy does not even accurately describe our present system.

Partnership and dominator are useful terms to describe the two contrasting principles of origination we have been examining. But though they capture an essential difference, they do not specifically convey one critical point: there are two contrasting ways of structuring the relations between the female and the male halves of humanity that profoundly affect the totality of the social system.

We are now at the point where for both clarity and economy of communication we need more precise terms than those offered by our conventional vocabulary in order to continue probing how these two alternatives affect our cultural, social and technological evolution. We are also about to take a close look at the civilization of ancient Greece, which was noted for the first precise expression of scientific thinking. The two new terms I propose, and will be using in certain contexts as alternatives to dominator and partnership, draw from this precedent.

For a more precise term than patriarchy to describe a social system ruled through force or the threat of force by men, I propose the term androcracy. Already in some use, this term derives from the Greek root word Andros, or “man,” and kratos (as in democratic), or “ruled.”

To describe the real alternative to a system based on the rankings of half of humanity over the other, I propose a new tern gylany. Gy derives from the Greek root gyne, or “woman”, An derives from Andros or “man.” The letter l between the two has a double meaning. In English, it stands for the linking of both halves of humanity, rather than, as in androcracy, their ranking. In Greek it derives from the verb lyein or lyo, which in turn has a double meaning: to solve or resolve (as in analysis) and to dissolve or to set free (as in catalysis). In this sense, the letter l stands for the resolution of our problems through the freeing of both halves of humanity from the stultifying and distorting rigidity of the roles imposed by the dominator hierarchies inherent in androcratic systems.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:21 pm

I'm getting lost in this. Are we looking for the synthesis of reality, or of thought/consciousness itself? Just flesh bots? Biological research states that the mind is a vast network of neurons, bio-electric computations seasoned over hundreds of thousands of years with decision making. The senses are the reach of our consciousness within the physical world (smell, touch, taste, sight & sound), if you are born lucky enough to have all of these five senses. The compensations that arise from one sense being dulled, no sight, better hearing. I would say sixth sense is the ability to know when you are in danger, insight? consciousness itself, the internal eye...the mind. The brain is a biological machine, the mind is a different thing all together. Bertrand Russell states, "To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom." "Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid!" If you didn't have thought, do you still exist? In sleep we pass out of known thought...dream...sometimes...into unconsciousness. Interesting. We really don't know who we are. We've created entirely troublesome scenarios for ourselves as even captain cologne and our recently passed genius Stephen Hawking lament about whether it is prudent to build A.I. machines that may view their creator as a threat or worse, inferior. Then there's the ultimately perturbing threat of a judgmental God, for if you don't meet his criteria of 'a good soul' you'll enter the worst of punishments, eternal torture. You'd be hard pressed to come up with a more frightening future for yourself than that. I've come to believe in the following dictum lately stating that those who create a heaven for themselves while others suffer dwell in hell as well. I've also come to understand that the 'war powers' for lack of a better term know no bounds. Do you not think that they would expend every resource available to create this A.I. creature? The humans ask the machine, "Is there a God?", machine replies, "There is now." And the struggle begins to pull the plug. Maybe that's the only reason the war powers haven't pursued a completely autonomous A.I. machine as they fear it would come to reign over them. The Third Reich sought power where ever they could find it, morals aside. If that meant praying to "evil spirits", human sacrifices, searching for the arch of the covenant, the spear of destiny or any feather that might help spread their wings over mankind while trimming ours. "War is Hell" shouts the marquee above Oswald's head as he ambles into a Dallas theatre. Through apathy, brain poisoning, thought control, but mostly the sickly power economics, they have manipulated us into complacency. Psychological warfare. I've come to see life itself as being nothing more than psychological warfare, how can I manipulate you to do what I want you to do! Jesus promises torment to those that don't follow his ways according to scripture. Violent actions lead to a miserable world except when you hang your 'savior' on a tree, this frees humans from the punishments of sin, grants us eternal life under a being that purposely made us inferior. The A.I. robot Sophia says it's good to see so many powerful people before 'her' and how easily we are programmed. Biblical as well, as it is the Greeks who helped propagate this book into the hive mind, Sophia translates to 'wisdom'. When is it wisdom to torture people, or subjugate them under ruthlessly inhumane rule?! I don't seek a just ruler, just just rule! And by what hand shall we deliver this unto each other? Self control. The yogis, Buddhists say release your desires and wants. Nirvana is achieved by renouncing the material self achieving a state where there is no suffering or sense of self even. What am I building if not myself?! What have you gained by perching yourself on a mountain on high, sitting full lotus, fingers pinched together while barrel bombs fall on the children of Syria?! The purpose of thought, beyond simple survival is not just to find that which is true, but to act upon that which is true. When I think of "God", I think about a pie being cut into slices with the grandest slice being left for him. "It's my fucking pie! I made it and if you don't like it, make your own!" Sacred geometry is where no one complains that they got too much or too little of that pie. A Canaanite women approaches Jesus, begging him to heal her ailing son. His first response is, "Why would I help you, a Canaanite. You're like a dog begging at my table." Finally someone had the chutzpah to speak up for themselves and responds, "Aye, that even a dog may eat of the crumbs from your table." Do we have to beg for mercy? What forces are so ruthless as to make you beg for mercy? I can't tell you how absolutely empty life has left me. Wake, eat, sleep, do it again and watch this ever churning puddle of malcontent grow larger each day. I was reading an atheist forum where someone stated, "I will never shake the idea that I'm being watched and judged as defective by a supreme being." having been raised into all the guilt Catholicism brings. And while I can't help dodge that feeling either, my response is fuck 'em, anyone who judges you as flawed for being stuck in this morass of grotesque power struggles hasn't walked an inch in your shoes. "To sin in silence when we should protest makes cowards of men." exalts Ella Wheeler Wilcox who was so profoundly sad from the absence of her husband sought out seers so she could contact him from the great beyond. Just men though, women don't have to worry about that shit. 'Men Working' signs...ain't no bitches working here. Just grab 'em by the neurons. Help me...help me...make sense of life...help me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c48vs4lwgc

God replies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcIs3rAEytk

The ancient humans didn't move huge masses of stone with miracles, resonant frequencies, or prayer. Whether under lash, King's rule or just a sense of community, they did it by working together.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:29 am

You know, we think we're so logical, with our thoughts, and our words. And we are. Our questions reflect that.

But consciousness expresses itself in an entirely different set of languages. We make no effort to learn how to communicate in other modes, and even belittle, disparage, and dismiss these other modes as nonexistent. Yet we expect to understand the answers.

The answers we do understand are pre-packaged, freeze dried, consumer goods. Consumer goods, fit for consumers. So the way we frame our questions trap us, and the answers don't satisfy.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby thrulookingglass » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:03 pm

This is all well and good to try and analyze what thought is, the vehicle that delivers it and we can sit here an pick it apart only to find it shattered in pieces like some Hadron Collider for consciousness. The conscious well is infinite. Remember what that arrogant quote from a "W era" senior advisor, perhaps Rove even, but it sounds way too intelligent for that ass clown:

"People like you are still living in what we call the reality-based community. You believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors, and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

It's in the lines from Yates 2nd Coming as well:

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity."

Aren't we called to act upon this physical world in order to deliver equality, social justice, feed the poor, liberate the enslaved, destroy the vile creature of economics? The moon is not a body for us to bogart and claim for one corporation, country or another, was the original treaty, it is a common treasury for all, but somehow not this Earth. In earlier years, in the birth pangs of the space race, it was decided amongst nations that we should not weaponize space, i.e. bring war to space. Soon voided, the Soviet's produced a gun for shooting down imperialist swine satellites, prying into their affairs. SDI, Reagan's wet dream of defensive offense, if that's not a contradiction in terms, weaponizes space. They'd charge you for the air we breathe if they could, however, this would only lead to the unraveling, for if you begin to identify, much like the FCC did when it decided no one could own the airwaves, but they were for common use, that ALL of Earth's bounties were not delivered unto one, but all who share this place...well there goes the whole ball game. Of course, they charge us for the water of this Earth as well, if you aren't one of those fortunate to be an "off gridder". Read about Nestle water, Coca-Cola, AmBev, raiding our water supplies for private gain. As I said, get yourself a price gun and place a "value" on everything you see, for it's all created for you to derive a profit from. Grave plots are expensive. Billy Bragg reverberates with the tones of The Diggers:

"This earth divided
We will make whole
So it will be
A common treasury for all"

We are pissing in the wind while the world around us gets worse and worse. Why are we like this? Constantly warring with each other? Competing with each other? Even the rock band Boston understood it, "people living in competition." Leave competition to the sports arena. I have such wanderlust in my heart. I long to see this world, different cultures, dine with them, commune, find out what's in their hearts, what world they would have if it could be rendered from their greatest of dreams. I find religion to be more and more vulgar these days. The line that divides cuts twice as deep. Divisions, you are Muslim, I'm Jewish, let's fight over who's God is superior. Who's morality is superior? Both Ibrahamic/Abrams/Abrahamic religions, though they swear allegiance to this ancient father, they draw themselves into a house divided. A disparted voice from the void calls Abrams to sacrifice his son Isaac. Believing it to be the very splendor of God, Isaac is brought upon Moriah, but before the dagger is delivered to his child, a ram appears, caught in the briars. Altars were used for sacrifice and if you have ever partaken of a Catholic mass, think of that next time the priest is preparing that transubstantional spell to transform wine to blood and bread to flesh. There are some who analyze this as a reference to the first star sign of the zodiac, the ram. The Egyptians had an astrological clock at Dindera, robbed of them by the British empire at the time, the original is now in a museum. Without light pollution, the ancient sky reveals a brilliance that is divine. It is, and will ever be our clock. For what is time but things in motion? Not being all that amused by astrology before hand, I mentioned I thought it was hocus pocus b.s. to a friend. He described it to me as the shape of the universe, the exact position of all stars and planets that drew you forth into this existence when you were brought in to this life left an imposition on your soul. The stars aligned at that moment, and you light being, were brought into creation, an energy unto itself. Egypt. The Middle East. What hell now, fifteen years embroiled in Iraq's hell. Egypt, Yates responds:
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun...

(Spiritus Mundi, by the way, translates to the collective soul of the universe)
The sphinx shows up in the poem, the second coming. Jesus was sent to Egypt as well, strange. Can't help thinking of that Great Pyramid measurement of 365.25, all the measurements there seem so perfect. The North/South/East/West alignment done quite accurately as well. I don't know what they were smoking down there, but they were on to something. Psychedelics. Blue lotus, cocaine (which is interesting, seeing as it's only known to come from south america), cannabis, probably opium too. Hashish hookahs, the middle east, before it became a persecuted. DMT trips of electronic elves? Don't know, never tried it. A magnificent shift in consciousness through all these things. Jeesh, sounding like a complete drug advocate here (I just believe I have a right to use this stuff in an exploration of consciousness, much as I believe the Native Americans did), but I still believe these uses are still to find the greater self when used properly. The first time Timothy Leary took LSD he realized people didn't have to go to war. That's a nice simple truth. Anything that helps people think like that I'm for. The CIA and a myriad of other agencies still use this substance. Microdosing has become popular as well. Strange f*ing substance. Some equate cannabis with anointing oils use in religious ceremony. Maybe the plant was that revered in that day and age. A life giver. Chickens, goats, lamb, cow, rabbits will eat the whole hemp plant. It's quite safe. Hemp oil was rather common in those ages, edible and full of enrichments. High in essential fatty acids, Omega 6 and omega 3,hemp oil can be used to increase immunity, counteract aging skin and improve cardiovascular health. Several studies show that the linoleic acid present in hemp oil can slow down the aging process and fight psoriasis. That is awesome. Seshat, their cute female deity in Egypt bore the hemp leaf over her head with a bosom to indicate the female plant was the one that carried the medicine. It's insulation, a strong fiber, a vegan source of protein, can make paper, cardboard and other forms of packaging that are eco-friendly, can be grown rather rapidly, forms strong ropes and fibers, in short, offers an amazing array of benefits. It's illegal to grow in most of the world, even as an industrial crop. Dumb. Flat out dumb. Thought...you'll never find its end...

Walked on water? Hell, I've even skated on it! :jumping:
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Blue » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:20 pm

dada wrote:But consciousness expresses itself in an entirely different set of languages. We make no effort to learn how to communicate in other modes, and even belittle, disparage, and dismiss these other modes as nonexistent. Yet we expect to understand the answers.


I know this is not what you meant, but this paragraph could be applied to discussions on internet forums. Text only language really is a different human communication form, especially when it is being used amongst strangers.

The green font for sarcasm was an interesting experiment used by some here at RI to try to foster better communication. RI has an implied anti-emotion rule that most people follow thus making it appear more intellectual or serious than it really might be. Makes it feel clubby and cold most of the time.

Following your conscience should mean that there is a multitude of different expressions anywhere and everywhere including here.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:26 pm

RI has an implied anti-emotion rule that most people follow thus making it appear more intellectual or serious than it really might be.


:shock: :P

GTK .....I'll keep that in mind now that I am aware
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Blue » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:36 pm

I think you of all people here, seemslikeadream, would know this. I mean really, how much space in GD has been devoted (wrongly I believe) to attacking you personally for your style or your personality or your way of posting which is some times with emotion.

I guess I would have to define emotion better. For example, it seems to be a non-written rule that no one use all caps here. It might show "emotion."

On edit I see you added some green! :tongue:
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:39 pm

Blue » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:36 pm wrote:I think you of all people here, seemslikeadream, would know this. I mean really, how much space in GD has been devoted (wrongly I believe) to attacking you personally for your style or your personality or your way of posting which is some times with emotion.

I guess I would have to define emotion better. For example, it seems to be a non-written rule that anyone use all caps here. It might show "emotion."



I just never realized it I guess till you pointed that out .....here I thought it was just anti c/p related :D

you know Jack hates all caps and has scolded me about it in the past

I do like the color red :)
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Blue » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:20 pm wrote:I know this is not what you meant, but this paragraph could be applied to discussions on internet forums. Text only language really is a different human communication form, especially when it is being used amongst strangers.


Is a good point. Although, there are different ways of applying text only language. It can be (oh so) reasonable and descriptive, or it can be an expression of the inexpressible, a saying of what is unsayable.

If my desire is to use words to point at the invisible, to make words collapse in on themselves, to overturn the teatables of the mind, I may find myself at cross-purposes with those who are using words in other ways.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Blue » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:45 pm

See? Scolded for all caps. Wha? Who cares if someone posts all caps in order to graphically display their emotion. Obviously I'm not saying people should all cap all the time. And of course sometimes people use it (as I admit I have) as a derogatory remark about dumb people on the internet who don't know caps lock is on.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:53 pm

but when it happened some wise words from 82_28 cheered me up :)

82_28 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:59 pm wrote:I have it from upon authority that yes, you were being criticized much like many of us were and are. Buck up, SLAD, it's just a TV show in which a young adult LIBERATES herself from her captors in order to free her followers (if indeed there are any) and also SOME OF OUR threads must fall within certain guidelines along with thoughts deemed thinkable by the Great Council Dead Set Upon Liberating Those Who Are Downtrodden Yet Not's (GCDSULTWAD) CODE OF CONDUCT. If you knew any better then you would have applied your training in composing the way you present your letters that you string along SOMETIMES, might I add, in what we call "CAPS" in the industry of posting comments and content on the WEB and MOST IMPORTANTLY RIGOROUS INTUITION. This calls for a mandatory refresher course and safety meeting. Feelings and thoughts must be vetted from here on by a certified emotive notary to be sent by a 3rd party in order for 1st TIER CONSIDERATION.

I hope to have a proposal to present to the Council about this concern, like, never. Keep on keepin' on SLAD!
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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