Questioning Consciousness

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Harvey » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:26 am

Thanks for the explanation Sounder, your intial comment was baffling to me.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:08 am

I think risks (and what happens, generally, including whether a life becomes "happy" or is devoted to the good or to doing the right things) are determined by factors other than whether or not one assigns a particular meaning to life as a whole, or classifies it as meaningless.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:36 am

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby thrulookingglass » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:50 pm

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. - Book of Luke


Absolute freedom is the right of the strongest to dominate - Camus


This is our malady, I deserve or we deserve sanctity...you and yours deserve to suffer. Compassion negates evil. There is no heaven until there is no hell. Hell, your soaking in it. Hell is where care is forsaken. Who is strong that won't look after the feeble? Praise the C A R E providers. Better still, be one.

Practice grace! :lovehearts: :hug1:

Still hate that rotten book, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Blessed be the world drowner. Cover my sins in tears.

Communion comes in more forms than only sacred bread and wine.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby BenDhyan » Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:35 pm

Grizzly » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:31 pm wrote:I like to thing our robot creators are so devoid of emotion that they run our universe as a simulation to experience love ...

I prefer the more ancient concept of the uninitiated living in the world of maya to that of living in a simulation, but it still works for me so long as one realizes that both imply a state of mind.yet to reach its potential.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:27 am

What I said about Camus was more an observation than a judgement. I couldn't find a reference but IIRC Camus wrote many pages every day.

These words were meant to speak to Donald Hoffmans ideas about conscious agents and improving the quality of information.


From chapter 5; A Body of Broken Bones by Thomas Merton

...As long as we are on earth, the love that unites us will bring us suffering by our very contact with one another, because love is the resetting of a body of broken bones. Even saints cannot live with saints on this earth without some anguish, without some pain at the differences between them.

There are two things which men can do about the pain of disunion with other men. They can love or they can hate.

Hatred recoils at the sacrifice and the sorrow that are the price of this resetting of bones. It refuses the pain of reunion. It identifies the agony with the other men whose presence cause agony in us by reminding us of our disunion.

Hatred tries to cure disunion by annihilating those who are not united with us. It seeks peace by elimination of everybody but ourselves. But love by its acceptance of the pain of reunion, begins to heal all wounds....
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby BenDhyan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:49 am

^ From chapter 5; A Body of Broken Bones by Thomas Merton

There are two things which men can do about the pain of disunion with other men. They can love or they can hate.


I am reminded of this, imho, wisdom from Chien-chih Seng-ts'an, Third Zen Patriarch [606AD]

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.
If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:16 pm

BenDhyan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:49 am wrote:I am reminded of this, imho, wisdom from Chien-chih Seng-ts'an, Third Zen Patriarch [606AD]

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.
If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind.


My comment:

To hide the apparent and manifest what is hidden is called the Great Way.
How does one know what to hide and what to make manifest? Apply it to everything, without discrimination. Then it is not difficult.

Everything becomes clear and undisguised. Clear, because what is apparent becomes transparent. Undisguised, because what was hidden can be seen, manifested through what is clear.

Heaven and earth are set infinitely apart when nothing appears in between heaven and earth. This is not because there is nothing between heaven and earth. In between heaven and earth there is an earthly heaven, also a heavenly earth. But when the earth is not transparent, they cannot be seen.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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