Questioning Consciousness

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:53 pm

In considering the difference between defining what exists and confirming the existence of something, I realized that I may be a hard materialist after all. In the sense that I think that our apparent reality of measurable, tangible matter-energy is real, not a projection, and while allowing a certainty for a far greater reality than that, of "more on heaven and earth than dreamed of," I sort that into the unknown unknowns until it becomes known, if ever. I'm impatient with statements of certainty about it (like in the religions) if they don't come with more than inferential evidence.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:18 pm

^^^^^^^^

In the range of my position as well, though I admit to being pulled into the direction of a non-materialist explanation, but generally agnostic barring new discoveries that may sway me one way or the other.

I'm impatient with statements of certainty about it (like in the religions) if they don't come with more than inferential evidence.


Indeed. You can also interchange/include certain science-based positions along with religion. There is no certainty on this topic at this time. Those that insist otherwise are no less dogmatic than the religions.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:03 pm



Isn’t it ironic that five friggin’ horsemen are frivolously elaborating about The Black Mirror - which I personally considered terribly disturbing for about ten minutes, before changing the channel from that multi-generational deep, dark genre of propaganda?

First:
Harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:33 am wrote:Unfair, Chump. You're under some kind of internal pressure and finding external causes which are far apart from the real external and internal causes. One trick is not to identify with what you feel. Your feelings are a landscape you happen to exist within, full of signposts and briars relevant to you but not necessarily of your making nor the making of those around you, while you and they also contribute to that landscape. That's life.

Iamwhomiam, schizoid is what we do and what we are in this world we're making. How else to escape except through exploring contradiction? And yet while contradiction is an eternal problem, how we reconcile contradiction is the supreme art, one we're losing sight of.


Fair? What’d you expect from a stupid fukkin’schizoid fascist, semi—closeted quazi-knotzy??

Think I’m crazy? Maybe insane?? Disturbed enough to do sumpin’ stupid???? Shit man! Call the pol…

Please don’t… On second thought, I’m naught so distraught as I (apparently) appear… I promise to be good. I’m going along… with the got-dang program… posting some positive to negate the negative… But still, there’s something that should be said of the split personality’s parallel perception of seeing conspiracies in the crazy stories constantly presented on the mainstream media (such as above); like seemingly existing in a separate reality from friends, family, former friends, and a few fuggin' foes, who still have faith that 19 hajis hijacked some Boeings to demolish those buildings in 2001, or that we went to war to fight Al Kidney, or that JFK was shot by Osvald, or that the Gulf of Tonkin was truly attacked, or that MLK was killed by McVeigh, or that OKC was done by Ray, or a republican or democrat can make a difference, or that crisis actors don’t actually exist, or that the stuff we see on the TV is true… or still perceive that the Earth is a sphere… etc.

Since I wasn’t present and really can’t tell what actually happened, I’m simply repeating what a lotta people are already realizing - inside themselves, that mainstream television (and corrupt politicians) are serving an agenda to stash some cash from the bookies who bribe ‘em with made up money… So yeah, crashing the economy would create a calamity, and as we all know - if we’re not careful the buck’s gonna stop here pretty soon; so I’m really not interested in trying to instigate a political uprising, surely incitin’ possibly concentrated mainstream masses - into social classes, so a progressive agenda can General-ly continue to make America great again?

Resonating with my ’stupid’ perceptions was R W’s description (posted somewhere) expounding upon the scary proposal that television, video games, social media, and following a phone for information to find your way for food - and everything, are fast facilitating an irresistible, truly electronic, trip-ily troubling and tentatively intolerable alternate reality run by tyrants for more than money…



Last edited by chump on Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby BenDhyan » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:23 pm

Considering that the material reality that science studies constitutes less than 5% of the mass of the universe, I have little doubt that the so called dark matter and omnipresent dark energy play a vital role in the whole universal scheme of things. Indeed, the religious and metaphysical supposed qualities of spiritual energy and ether respectively that are rejected by materialistic science, could very well be intrinsic aspects of omnipresent dark energy. There is another omnipresent entity of the universe, zero point energy, and it is seen as constituted of the em energy frequency spectrum continuum down to the smallest wavelengths, and this too shares the same space as dark energy and thus must be intrinsic to it. To my mind, it is reasonable to consider that the universal omnipresent substance, whatever name we give to it, which is undetectable by human senses, may hold many secrets that are yet to be revealed, particularly concerning causes of effects in the physical universe.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:39 am

It makes more sense to consider that the subtle and small produces the large, rather than the current fashion of thinking that the large produces the small.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:32 pm

Sounder » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:39 pm wrote:It makes more sense to consider that the subtle and small produces the large, rather than the current fashion of thinking that the large produces the small.


Huh? What fashion is that? Any chance you could expand a little on that?

Edit: To everyone misusing the word schizoid: please don't, it's really annoying. Schizoid is not the same as schizophrenic. They're two separate things. I'm schizoid, which just means that I prefer my own company over that of others and that I'm really fucking bad at picking up on social cues and non-verbal communication.

Extra edit: see minime's post below. You're not technically misusing it, just annoying people like me. :)
Last edited by DrEvil on Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:23 pm

DrEvil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:32 pm wrote:
Sounder » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:39 pm wrote:It makes more sense to consider that the subtle and small produces the large, rather than the current fashion of thinking that the large produces the small.


Huh? What fashion is that? Any chance you could expand a little on that?

Edit: To everyone misusing the word schizoid: please don't, it's really annoying. Schizoid is not the same as schizophrenic. They're two separate things. I'm schizoid, which just means that I prefer my own company over that of others and that I'm really fucking bad at picking up on social cues and non-verbal communication.


etymology: resembling schizophrenia

adj.
1. having mutually contradictory or antagonistic parts : changing frequently between opposite states
2. of, relating to, or having a personality characterized especially by emotional and social detachment, indifference, and lack of affect
3. characterized by, resulting from, tending toward, or suggestive of schizophrenia

n.
1. a person affected with schizoid personality disorder

You can see how someone, anyone might misconstrue your intent. While you are strictly not misusing the word, the reader may not be either.

You might say that schizoid has a schizoid definition.

For what it's worth, what is often interpreted as schizoid behavior can also be interpreted as adaptive behavior.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:05 pm

^^Strictly speaking, yes, but I'm a stickler for precise language (see the whole "suck at non-verbal communication" bit above), and I'm sick of people thinking I'm schizophrenic when I'm not. If people mean schizophrenic they should say schizophrenic and save everyone who is schizoid a whole lot of aggravation with people misunderstanding what they mean when they say they're schizoid.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:52 pm

Although I believe my use of the word in question was correct, I apologize for having offended you, Dr. Evil. I will not again use that word here. To me it seemed an apt description for what I and others have long been observing, schizophrenic-like posting behavior from someone I never accused of being a Nazi, though they continue to claim I did just that.

To be wrongfully accused of being a Nazi should be an unforgivable act. Also, to wrongfully accuse another of calling someone a Nazi when they said, wrote, no such thing, likewise should be so condemned. I'll get around to offering chump a more thorough response soon enough. Good thing I'm a forgiving guy!

Wrongly addressed Elvis rather than Dr. Evil. My apologies to both.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:03 pm

Okay fruitcakes, just to be clear, so we have no confusion, no one’s ”accused” anyone of calling someone a “a rather schizoid or split personality”, “schizophrenic-like”, “quasi-closeted nazi”, etc…

Someone did say:

… there’s something that should be said of the split personality’s parallel perception of seeing conspiracies in the crazy stories constantly presented on the mainstream media (such as above); like seemingly existing in a separate reality from friends, family, former friends, and few fuggin’ foes, who still have faith that 19 hajis hijacked some Boeings to demolish those buildings in 2001, or that we went to war to fight Al Kidney, or that JFK was shot by Osvald, or that the Gulf of Tonkin was truly attacked, or that MLK was killed by McVeigh, or that OKC was done by Ray, or a republican or democrat can make a difference, or that crisis actors don’t actually exist, or that the stuff we see on the TV is true… or still perceive that the Earth is a sphere… etc.

Since I wasn’t present at any of those instances and really can’t tell what actually happened, I’m simply repeating what a lotta people are already realizing - inside themselves, that mainstream television (and corrupt politicians) are serving an agenda to stash some cash from the bookies who bribe ‘em with made up money… So yeah, crashing the economy would create a calamity, and as we all know - if we’re not careful the buck’s gonna stop here pretty soon; so I’m really not interested in trying to instigate a political uprising, surely incitin’ possibly concentrated mainstream masses - into social classes, so a progressive agenda can General-ly continue to make America great again?

Resonating with my ’stupid’ perceptions was R W’s description (posted somewhere) expounding upon the scary proposal that television, video games, social media, and following a phone for information to find your way for food - and everything, are fast facilitating an irresistible, truly electronic, trip-ily troubling and tentatively intolerable alternate reality run by tyrants for more than money…


Carry on ‘questioning consciousness’, if you wish…

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:03 pm

Iamwhomiam » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:52 am wrote:Although I believe my use of the word in question was correct, I apologize for having offended you, Dr. Evil. I will not again use that word here. To me it seemed an apt description for what I and others have long been observing, schizophrenic-like posting behavior from someone I never accused of being a Nazi, though they continue to claim I did just that.

To be wrongfully accused of being a Nazi should be an unforgivable act. Also, to wrongfully accuse another of calling someone a Nazi when they said, wrote, no such thing, likewise should be so condemned. I'll get around to offering chump a more thorough response soon enough. Good thing I'm a forgiving guy!

Wrongly addressed Elvis rather than Dr. Evil. My apologies to both.


No worries, I'm not offended, just being my usual reactionary self, and to be honest I had no idea about the actual meaning of the term and wrongly assumed it was just lazy shorthand for schizophrenic until minime wrote an actual coherent post about it, so that's my bad (assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups. :) ). By all means continue using it, it's not like I don't know what you mean.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Elvis » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:13 pm

Pardon my consciousness... but this seems apt in more than one way—an episode from my favorite old TV show.

(Are they misusing "schizoid" here?)


"The Schizoid Man"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys7vOva_gAg
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:02 pm

Elvis » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:13 am wrote:Pardon my consciousness... but this seems apt in more than one way—an episode from my favorite old TV show.

(Are they misusing "schizoid" here?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys7vOva_gAg


Depends what meaning of the word you use. As minime posted, it can mean both schizoid as in the personality disorder, or schizophrenic-like, and judging by the plot synopsis they're using the latter meaning in that episode, so no.

Schizoid personality disorder just means that someone has "a personality characterized especially by emotional and social detachment, indifference, and lack of affect". I'm not sure I actually agree with that definition though. From personal experience and talking with others with the same superior mindset the social detachment isn't actually detachment but a defense mechanism as strong emotions from others tend to overload our circuitry. For example, I get physically ill by being around people who are angry and it takes me days to get back to normal after an argument, so it's more like being hypersensitive to strong emotions, while at the same time being absolutely shit at parsing subtler emotions and cues (think aspergers/mild autism and you're in the ballpark), with the result that it's just easier to avoid people.

Apparently we also have hyperactive inner voices and an overactive imagination, which I can't really vouch for as I have no way of comparing with others, but I do know that I have no problem just being on my own with my thoughts for hours and days on end, and other people exhaust me emotionally fast. Five minutes of boring small-talk and I'm ready to start climbing the walls. Ten minutes and I'm freaking out and usually just leave because the next step is a panic attack, and that's no fun.

Tl;dr: we avoid strong emotions because it's just too much, and come off as cold and indifferent as a result.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:38 pm

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or star-whacked.
- Jeff Wells




Personally, I rarely partook of The Prisoner series, but the Schizoid episode, was a pretty cool synch… for a coupla reasons… I shall not explain…

I did watch the Dick Cavett Show rather religiously as a interested teenager during the 70’s… particularly interviews like these two that YouTube suggested when I watched the above.

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:57 pm

Sounder » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:39 pm wrote:
It makes more sense to consider that the subtle and small produces the large, rather than the current fashion of thinking that the large produces the small.


Dr Evl wrote...
Huh? What fashion is that? Any chance you could expand a little on that?


No, but you can, this quote is from a few pages back.

Dr. Evil wrote...
(we think. In a materialistic view our consciousness is an emergent property of the physical interactions happening inside our brains.
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