Questioning Consciousness

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:49 pm

On the religious side of things: We're looking at things through a 'god' lens. Might I suggest the goddess? Not as a reaction to god-centered religion, like satanism is a reaction to christianity. I mean really take the goddess into your heart.

For me, the universe runs on three principles. Love, sex, and death. I exist because I love the goddess. My existence springs from nothing, motivated purely out of desire for her. My life is the consummation of that desire. Communion with the universe is sex with the goddess. Death is the path, the way to that communion.

Death, to me, is not 'the end of life.' Death is always present. Death and life are one thing seen from different perspectives. The ego clings to to the life perspective, this is natural, there's no blame or guilt in this. But I want the goddess, and the path to her is the death perspective.

Understanding the creator as a goddess instead of a god may help you to understand the qualities that seem unfair when attributed to "god the father." If you love the goddess, it isn't even a question of fair or unfair. She's the goddess, she can do whatever she wants.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:13 pm

The Third Man recognizes the Church of the Holy Family, but would never join a church which would have him/her/it as a member.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:23 pm

Who is the third man? Is it Shemp?
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:33 pm

dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:23 pm wrote:Who is the third man? Is it Shemp?


Who is the goddess?
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:27 pm

Her name is Beleth, if you must know.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:32 pm

dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:27 pm wrote:Her name is Beleth, if you must know.


I'll give her a look.

Thx.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby thrulookingglass » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:06 pm

minime » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:13 pm wrote:The Third Man recognizes the Church of the Holy Family, but would never join a church which would have him/her/it as a member.


That's awesome.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:10 pm

dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:44 pm wrote:But "giving a shit" and "not giving a shit" are things that humans do. What the universe does might be beyond what the dualistic mind can conceive.

I agree that searching for a temporal explanation of life is an interesting exercise. I certainly find it fascinating. Although we have to place time before consciousness to do it. Yet time itself is a product of consciousness, possibly.

The universe may not function on dualistic principles, is what I'm trying to get at. We haven't yet found a way to bridge the gulf between relativity and quantum mechanics. Right now we have two ways of looking at the universe scientifically, both equally valid from their respective points of view. I hate to say it, but it's just as possible that instead of resolving this into one elegant theory, we'll end up discovering a third, equally valid theory. Instead of synthesis, the universe will just appear messier. It's enough to drive a scientist mad.


There's a reason theoretical physicists tend to go a little loopy, and I agree that reality probably won't tie up into a nice human-comprehensible bow. There's not really any reason it should. It's like expecting a video game character to comprehend the world outside the computer. It doesn't need to.

In our case evolution doesn't select for truth. There's no point in evolution making us able to comprehend the bigger picture, if there even is a bigger picture and we're not just living in some random, soon to pass perturbation in infinite chaos.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:47 pm

Good food for thought, evil Dr.

Your comment on video game characters and infinite chaos reminds me of Ultima IV, the Quest of the Avatar. In the game, there is a question of the "Prime Axiom." Is the Prime Axiom "Balance" or "Infinity?"

I understand the analogy of the video game character not being expected to understand the world outside of the game. Although, that would make for an interesting game. And yet, if part of the game was for the game character to understand the world outside the game, that would have to be part of the program. Which brings us to questions of free will, true self-directed action.

Of course the analogy can't be stretched too far without breaking. The video game character isn't conscious. We are. Hopefully.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:31 am

minime » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:32 pm wrote:
dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:27 pm wrote:Her name is Beleth, if you must know.


I'll give her a look.

Thx.


hm. Somehow, I don't think you will.

And I'm sorry if anything I said gave you the impression otherwise.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Sounder » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:48 am

Dr Evil wrote...
There's no point in evolution making us able to comprehend the bigger picture,


Given the effect that social conditioning has on the depth and breath of thinking in the population, evolution-ally speaking it would seem that 'not being able to comprehend the bigger picture' is being selected for. Yet people still try, with odd assortments of successes and failures, successful failures and failed successes. Both scientists and preachers seem motivated to comprehend a bigger picture, yet it is only later that it all gets seen as 90% conditioning and only 10% actionable information. Maybe 99% to 1%.

Finding that one percent will happen when we adopt different filtering criteria.

I have a recipe for trying to comprehend the bigger picture and it seems to work quite well so far.

Grizzly is right, words matter and ATM the stuff we are congering up with words is fairly ugly.


if there even is a bigger picture and we're not just living in some random, soon to pass perturbation in infinite chaos.

Well, what a happy thought.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:42 am

dada » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:31 am wrote:
minime » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:32 pm wrote:
dada » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:27 pm wrote:Her name is Beleth, if you must know.


I'll give her a look.

Thx.


hm. Somehow, I don't think you will.

And I'm sorry if anything I said gave you the impression otherwise.


I did last night. Why would you reference him/her as the goddess without saying her name, unless you believed that the gender of her divinity (goddess) is all that mattered to your audience. But, you know, there are goddesses and there are goddesses.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:12 pm

Sounder » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:48 am wrote:Dr Evil wrote...
There's no point in evolution making us able to comprehend the bigger picture,


Given the effect that social conditioning has on the depth and breath of thinking in the population, evolution-ally speaking it would seem that 'not being able to comprehend the bigger picture' is being selected for. Yet people still try, with odd assortments of successes and failures, successful failures and failed successes. Both scientists and preachers seem motivated to comprehend a bigger picture, yet it is only later that it all gets seen as 90% conditioning and only 10% actionable information. Maybe 99% to 1%.


This is a little disingenuous, comparing preachers to scientists. They are diametrically opposed to each other in their approach. Preachers claim to have truth, scientists want to find truth. And how is 90% conditioning?

Finding that one percent will happen when we adopt different filtering criteria.

I have a recipe for trying to comprehend the bigger picture and it seems to work quite well so far.


What would those criteria be? And what is your recipe? Please share.

Grizzly is right, words matter and ATM the stuff we are congering up with words is fairly ugly.


if there even is a bigger picture and we're not just living in some random, soon to pass perturbation in infinite chaos.

Well, what a happy thought.


I don't actually believe that, but even if I did happiness would have nothing to do with it. I don't believe things because they make me happy* but because they make sense at the moment.

*subconscious biases not included
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby dada » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:56 pm

minime » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:42 am wrote:
I did last night. Why would you reference him/her as the goddess without saying her name, unless you believed that the gender of her divinity (goddess) is all that mattered to your audience. But, you know, there are goddesses and there are goddesses.


Somehow, I doubt you did.

Here's how it went down, as I see it: I thought the thread was needing a bit of goddess-centered religion. It was starting to smell like a boys locker room in here.

You asked who the goddess is. I told you. You said you would look into her. I didn't think that would happen, and said so. It was something about the way you said it, I know the goddess would not be impressed. Therefore you would not be seeing her.

The goddess is not an intellectual thought experiment. Approach her like that, and she will continue to elude.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby minime » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:05 pm

:)
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