Questioning Consciousness

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:08 pm

Another thing they do is always latch on to extranea, such as the fact that (in this case) I called'em "not that stupid." What about the actual point? Does this persona deny that it has posted obvious falsehoods? Does it deny that these come from Nazi-lite sites? Of course not. It doesn't address these and it can't. It has to resort to pretending to take it personally that its perfidy is being addressed.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Elvis » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:21 pm

What about the actual point?

Responding to something other than the actual point has become widespread, a standard tactic. In many cases people don't even realize they're doing it. I found this to be very interesting, and helpful:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHZKX0H6cUE

She seems to be saying that we should try to make the most of our thinking. Something like that.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:37 pm

I watched that. Thank you. I liked the start especially, the setting out of her general premises and terms.

Inadvertantly becomes a lesson in how to hide premises (including from yourself) and skew cases with nuance and apparent objectivity, so that you appear to be both reasonable and right. (Pause for her 2016 election chart and tell me all the hidden premises and omissions.)
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Elvis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:25 am

JackRiddler wrote: (Pause for her 2016 election chart and tell me all the hidden premises and omissions.)


I did pause that! Interesting to see her thinking based on what she knows about it. I was glad to see no "Russia" in the scheme.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:37 am

JackRiddler » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:08 am wrote:Another thing they do is always latch on to extranea, such as the fact that (in this case) I called'em "not that stupid." What about the actual point? Does this persona deny that it has posted obvious falsehoods? Does it deny that these come from Nazi-lite sites? Of course not. It doesn't address these and it can't. It has to resort to pretending to take it personally that its perfidy is being addressed.


Standard troll tactic: obfuscate, distract and annoy without adding anything of substance, either on purpose or because they're to dumb to have anything worthwhile to say.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:41 am

Yeah, yeah…


Image



Does anyone find the following offensive?


viewtopic.php?p=658745#p658745

… The future is in free fall, even though it never arrives. It is an interesting feature of time that very few people see and that is that the moment we are in is the only place we can ever be. There is only now and ever will be. Strange things happen to people who can sink into the moment. The moment has a trick feature where it expands and expands, until the sensation is as if the waterfall of eternity were pouring through it.

There is no past. There is only the mind reaching behind. There is no future. There is only the mind reaching ahead. Most everyone lives in a fantasy world of manufactured, imaginary time zones. When you are young you live in the future and when you get older you live in the past. There is projection and reflection and it has the atmosphere of a dream. It is dreamlike. Like a movie playing on the mind-screen. It just goes by and eventually you wonder where it went and did it happen? The wheel of fire turns endlessly. It is the fire of desire and it flows from one life to the next.

What takes place in my heart and mind cannot be spoken of. Informed people have known this for centuries. Meher Baba let his silence speak for him.


An indignant ’Dr’ definitely did:


viewtopic.php?p=658748#p658748

^^I've complained to you about this before, but in case you missed it, here it is from the posting guidelines:

This is an anti-fascist board. Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted. This includes revisionist histories of the Holocaust.


That's several times just the last few months you've posted from sites that push Holocaust denial. Can you pretty please not post that shit here, or at the very least add a disclaimer first so people don't accidentally give the Nazi apologists any extra traffic?



Damn Doc!! D-d-duly noted…


Please excuse my insensitivity, but I was simply surprised to see someone squawkin’ about something so completely innocuous in “Questioning Consciousness” ; where I quoted the source of a sensible scribbling - at a web site I visit once in a while - simply as a courtesy to the poet who wrote it. The quote itself seemed quite sincere and totally kosher - for continuing the discussion… in “Questioning Consciousness”, and it didn’t occurred to me I could be promoting a problematic, apocalyptic, apoplectic, properly unpopular pop-apology, ’til the indignant ‘doctor’ suddenly dropped in to flatulently flaunt some flippant infraction (sending a signal to a similar persuasion) because the same ole sage who said what I sent supposedly smoked something… somewhere elsewhere…insinuating something… said to be some sort of revisionist history… I’m still not sure of what it was… that seemed to upset some sensibilities?


The perspectives presented in my previous posts were never even slightly supposed to espouse any anti-semantic or silvery supremacy sentimentality; and I still disagree with the insecure surgeon and a prick professor pushing a preference to censor our consciousness by dissing the source of a sound observation from the sites they serially menstrual-ly admonish, while totally side-stepping the potential essential piece of the puzzle we’re supposedly parsing in ’Questioning Consciousness’.


http://www.newnationalist.net/about-tnn/

Hate Facts (also referred to as truth bombs) are uncomfortable truths that make people angry. The taboo nature of such facts trigger deep emotions in those who have been culturally conditioned to believe that the facts themselves, and those espousing them, are morally inferior. This self perception of moral superiority is enough to dismiss any and all factual claims through pejorative accusations while never actually addressing the facts themselves.

Hate facts/truth bombs are not to be confused with Hate Speech, although it is often labeled as such by those who wish to ignore the facts presented to them. Whereas hate facts are nothing more than factual information presented as an argument, hate speech is derogatory language used pejoratively with no intention of educating an individual or group. Thus cheap pejoratives and it’s evil twin gaslighting are frowned upon at Winter Watch.

The suppression of dissidents attempting to spread factual truths to their fellow citizens are then suppressed through false accusations rendering society less flexible to correct its flaws early enough to avoid widespread harm. Worse yet, this strategy enables very sketchy operatives to hide their criminality. This is often easy to do, since many have been brainwashed early on to believe that individuals who fit a political label are immoral and should be shunned.




https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/06/17 ... anagement/

Narrative Management = Reality

Image


[…]

Those who engage in narrative management are not merely guilty of diddling with a few stories; they are actively controlling people’s experience of reality. As far as human experience is concerned, [url=https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-“perception-is-reality”]perception is reality[/url]. The most talented manipulators among us are fully aware of this and understand that, by controlling people’s perceptions, they can in a very real way control their reality.

What happens when you can control people’s experience of reality? Well, in a world of social creatures who build their society based on dominant consensuses about circumstances and events, you can to an extent control reality itself. You can create a reality where all resources are funneled toward you, your allies and your lackeys. You can create a reality where war and economic sanctions are inflicted upon any government which acts against your interests. You can create a reality where you are functionally a king, without the inconvenience of having the unwashed masses realize that that’s what you are.

The media-owning plutocratic class and its allies in opaque and unaccountable government agencies are in this way able to control reality, both in the way we experience it in our minds and in the way it expresses concretely. The ability to reach into people’s minds on a mass scale and interfere with their ability to understand what’s happening on their own planet and in their own society is a power so immense it’s hard to appreciate, and so staggeringly creepy it’s hard to comprehend. It’s a violation of a part of us that is so intimate and so sacred it could almost be said to border on the metaphysical.

If we could truly see what grave intercessions into every human’s mental sovereignty these manipulators are getting away with, it would look not unlike the British Empire of old as it slaughtered, stole, raped and enslaved its way across the planet. These same colonialist actions are occurring today, largely from the descendants of these same groups of people, but stories are being fed to us day after day to keep it hidden from us.

[…]





The bots have been baited before on this board… such as above, where the indubitable, predictable, doubtful doctor blew in to blow off, ”False Flags are Legal Propaganda…”; mis-directionally digressing his digits, in the Data Dump, with a selection of some of the stupider stuff from the particular spot where the piece I posted first appeared… Fair enough; but none of the the quotes included, of course, were actually incorporated or even related to the topical article I submitted; which I still consider a concise exploration and decent description of our political ritual destructive process - and the many-many-many manifestations of ancient mass mind control methods that continue to motivate a - malleable, imaginative mainstream media - perpetually programming a pliable public with (everyday) present-day proper-ganda…

——————


https://www.winterwatch.net/2018/06/ant ... mment-6278

Russ Winter


In very extreme cases, those who avoid more aggressive fallacy of origins (namely me) are called shills. That combination of using a fallacy of origin on a first source whereby another source who quotes or considers the first source is also attacked is especially questionable behavior.

This is a good definition:

The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue) is a fallacy of irrelevance that is based solely on someone's or something's history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. In other words, a fact is ignored in favor of attacking its source.

The fallacy therefore fails to assess the claim on its merit. The first criterion of a good argument is that the premises must have bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim in question. Genetic accounts of an issue may be true, and they may help illuminate the reasons why the issue has assumed its present form, but they are not conclusive in determining its merits.




The dedicated doctor also declared in General Discussion that I’d somehow endorsed some other supposedly right wing celebrity - some place else in cyber-space, who is also reputedly… whatever that put-down is supposed to imply??

How can a ‘holy cause’ be so lost??



Fine… for what it’s worth:


Nobody’s perfect…Propaganda?



Don’t get me wrong, I duly respect (and don’t dislike) the zippity-doo-dah, dippity doc… (I doubt he’s a doctor, btw), but the menacing mensch seems to be meaning to mis-associate my ass with… some of those things - he’s supposedly thinking we shouldn’t be thinking, while he was the one who was whipping it out!!


Is it really so stupid to simply suggest that it’s actually possible to consider the source - from a propaganda perspective - reading concurrently between the lines, to learn a little lesson from the National Enquirer… and elicit some truth from The New York Times?? I personally perceive that every piece posted on these stuffied up pages is practically professional propaganda… recycled by us, more or less, and mainlining the mainstream media mania is mainly the reason Main Street rules - here in America and around the world… where online assistants are constantly insisting we should only be spending our precious seconds consistently researching mainstream stories - incessantly shoveling the same old mistaken, mainstream schtick!



Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking; where it is absent, discussion is apt to become worse than useless.

- Leo Tolstoy



Suffice to say, out of respite, I won’t be repeating the Rense, I guess; but could surely show ya’ several dozen stupid examples of anti-semantic intimation that certainly seem like a time tested, tried and trued, pretty dang typical off topic trick to diss a discusser, stop the discussion, and totally trash the stuff presented.


Sie le vie.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby cptmarginal » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:58 am

Actually I think DrEvil has been reasonable, consistent - even restrained - in approaching this issue. I can't speak for anyone else's reaction, but it sure seems like an impersonal thing to me. Anyone linking to those kinds of sites would get the same response, and I'm just glad that another poster (who is now bizarrely being derided) took notice of it on several occasions so that I didn't have to.

There is no need to pretend that the substance of what you quoted was found "offensive" when you have had it directly explained to you that the problem is linking to that site. And if you think a website with an "Online Holocaust Deprogramming Course" banner alongside the text "Oy vey!" is not going to be controversial here: you aren't respecting the rules (for one thing)
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:34 pm

That is exactly the tactic I was talkin’ about, Captain…

Where did you spot those stupid quotations?

I didn’t stick ‘em here. Why would you?
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby cptmarginal » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:22 pm

said to be some sort of revisionist history… I’m still not sure of what it was… that seemed to upset some sensibilities?


You still aren't sure?

Image

I am not trying to discourage you from posting whatever you want, nor implying that you are trying to push a hateful point of view. I value your presence here, and it bothers me every time someone quits posting for reasons that are basically a misunderstanding. I am also in the minimalist moderation camp.

On the other hand, within the freedom of an open message board we do have a very limited set of specific restrictions. One is to not sympathetically link to Holocaust revisionist sites. Can you see how doing so makes people think you may also be sympathetic to such a viewpoint? Being asked to at least provide a disclaimer along with the link is a pretty light request, and "Check your sources, man!" is actually a helpful statement. Reacting with insults is certainly disheartening...

Since I am a captain, can you include me along with the prick professor and flatulent doctor? Or instead of wasting time with that masturbatory crap you could just explain to me: what kind of "poet" who is only sometimes "totally kosher" is worth paying any attention to at all? (Oh shit, I forgot about Ezra Pound.)

The one other thing we have tried to make it a point to avoid on the board is accusing others of being agents. I don't think it is a good idea to just find ways of getting around this such as calling people "personas" since it effectively insinuates the same, and reinforces pointless hostility.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:45 am

So, you decided to show that section again…

We are all personas here, pushing propaganda, no matter whether we know it or not.

Upon further reflection, maybe you’re right, I’m probably not really adhering to the rules… and I really don’t care to deride the doctor. When the doctor described his discontent, I had to search hard to see what he meant; and then I’m wondering, would he do the same if I posted a piece from the New York Times, or the Washington Post, or the National Inquirer? Surely they’ve said something insensitive too.

If I saw those sidebars, slogans and captions squarely quoted from the side of those sites, it was only at a glance, not seriously considered and disregarded because they seemed irrelevant as I was really only interested what I was reading, and didn’t pay attention because they didn’t make sense. But, since that site seems to upset so many, maybe I could quote what was worth considering in 'Questioning Consciousness' in a such fashion as this?

(from that smoking website that nobody likes)

… The future is in free fall, even though it never arrives. It is an interesting feature of time that very few people see and that is that the moment we are in is the only place we can ever be. There is only now and ever will be. Strange things happen to people who can sink into the moment. The moment has a trick feature where it expands and expands, until the sensation is as if the waterfall of eternity were pouring through it.

There is no past. There is only the mind reaching behind. There is no future. There is only the mind reaching ahead. Most everyone lives in a fantasy world of manufactured, imaginary time zones. When you are young you live in the future and when you get older you live in the past. There is projection and reflection and it has the atmosphere of a dream. It is dreamlike. Like a movie playing on the mind-screen. It just goes by and eventually you wonder where it went and did it happen? The wheel of fire turns endlessly. It is the fire of desire and it flows from one life to the next.

What takes place in my heart and mind cannot be spoken of. Informed people have known this for centuries. Meher Baba let his silence speak for him.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby DrEvil » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:02 pm

chump » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:45 am wrote:So, you decided to show that section again…

We are all personas here, pushing propaganda, no matter whether we know it or not.

Upon further reflection, maybe you’re right, I’m probably not really adhering to the rules… and I really don’t care to deride the doctor. When the doctor described his discontent, I had to search hard to see what he meant; and then I’m wondering, would he do the same if I posted a piece from the New York Times, or the Washington Post, or the National Inquirer? Surely they’ve said something insensitive too.

If I saw those sidebars, slogans and captions squarely quoted from the side of those sites, it was only at a glance, not seriously considered and disregarded because they seemed irrelevant as I was really only interested what I was reading, and didn’t pay attention because they didn’t make sense. But, since that site seems to upset so many, maybe I could quote what was worth considering in 'Questioning Consciousness' in a such fashion as this?

(from that smoking website that nobody likes)

… The future is in free fall, even though it never arrives. It is an interesting feature of time that very few people see and that is that the moment we are in is the only place we can ever be. There is only now and ever will be. Strange things happen to people who can sink into the moment. The moment has a trick feature where it expands and expands, until the sensation is as if the waterfall of eternity were pouring through it.

There is no past. There is only the mind reaching behind. There is no future. There is only the mind reaching ahead. Most everyone lives in a fantasy world of manufactured, imaginary time zones. When you are young you live in the future and when you get older you live in the past. There is projection and reflection and it has the atmosphere of a dream. It is dreamlike. Like a movie playing on the mind-screen. It just goes by and eventually you wonder where it went and did it happen? The wheel of fire turns endlessly. It is the fire of desire and it flows from one life to the next.

What takes place in my heart and mind cannot be spoken of. Informed people have known this for centuries. Meher Baba let his silence speak for him.


I took issue because you linked to a site that promotes holocaust denial, same as I did the previous times you did. I don't care if you post David Brooks all day long as long as you don't link to sites peddling holocaust denial, or as the Captain mentioned, at the very least throw on a spoiler of some sort.
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:02 pm

chump » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:45 am wrote:So, you decided to show that section again…

We are all personas here, pushing propaganda, no matter whether we know it or not.

Upon further reflection, maybe you’re right, I’m probably not really adhering to the rules… and I really don’t care to deride the doctor. When the doctor described his discontent, I had to search hard to see what he meant; and then I’m wondering, would he do the same if I posted a piece from the New York Times, or the Washington Post, or the National Inquirer? Surely they’ve said something insensitive too.

If I saw those sidebars, slogans and captions squarely quoted from the side of those sites, it was only at a glance, not seriously considered and disregarded because they seemed irrelevant as I was really only interested what I was reading, and didn’t pay attention because they didn’t make sense. But, since that site seems to upset so many, maybe I could quote what was worth considering in 'Questioning Consciousness' in a such fashion as this?

(from that smoking website that nobody likes)

… The future is in free fall, even though it never arrives. It is an interesting feature of time that very few people see and that is that the moment we are in is the only place we can ever be. There is only now and ever will be. Strange things happen to people who can sink into the moment. The moment has a trick feature where it expands and expands, until the sensation is as if the waterfall of eternity were pouring through it.

There is no past. There is only the mind reaching behind. There is no future. There is only the mind reaching ahead. Most everyone lives in a fantasy world of manufactured, imaginary time zones. When you are young you live in the future and when you get older you live in the past. There is projection and reflection and it has the atmosphere of a dream. It is dreamlike. Like a movie playing on the mind-screen. It just goes by and eventually you wonder where it went and did it happen? The wheel of fire turns endlessly. It is the fire of desire and it flows from one life to the next.

What takes place in my heart and mind cannot be spoken of. Informed people have known this for centuries. Meher Baba let his silence speak for him.


chump, in an earlier comment than that above:
Suffice to say, out of respite, I won’t be repeating the Rense, I guess; but could surely show ya’ several dozen stupid examples of anti-semantic intimation that certainly seem like a time tested, tried and trued, pretty dang typical off topic trick to diss a discusser, stop the discussion, and totally trash the stuff presented.

Chump, I’ll begin by first responding to the quote immediately above:
No one has asked for a respite from your postings; you were asked obey the RI discussion board rules and to cease and desist from linking to or posting propaganda from anti-semitic websites.

We are all personas here, pushing propaganda, no matter whether we know it or not.

Yes, we all share our personas through our words written carefully in order to best convey our emotions, our feelings, to readers with the hope they will closely approach true understanding of whatever we’re expressing. But we are not at all “pushing propaganda,” intentionally or unintentionally. There have been a few who have and were banned. Very few, indeed.

If I saw those sidebars, slogans and captions squarely quoted from the side of those sites, it was only at a glance, not seriously considered and disregarded because they seemed irrelevant as I was really only interested what I was reading, and didn’t pay attention because they didn’t make sense. But, since that site seems to upset so many, maybe I could quote what was worth considering in 'Questioning Consciousness' in a such fashion as this?

This is perhaps a failing on your part after having been advised verify the veracity of your source before linking to the site and before posting material found therein. Had you first put forth minimal effort in reviewing material present on the site you sourced you would have discovered the reason for present discontent. There are many sites that host Meher Baba quotations. A simple search would have sufficed in locating a non-controversial source.

When you posted your farewell message I was touched by the words of others wishing your well. That was the day after Christschurch mosque massacre. Funny how folks read peoples personas so differently. Me, I thought your militia unit had been called-up.

Considering you loosed the dogs of war in this thread, did you really think featuring a Roman Dog of War an appropriate choice for dissuasion?

But if your looking to become an antisemitic martyr, join the pyre:
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:21 am

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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:05 pm

Funny thing about online personas is that of how easily misread they can be. I do imagine a better world, every day. I dedicated my life to making it better for some, which I feel would make it a better place for all. However, some personas sometimes present what in this reader's eyes seems to be a rather schizoid or split personality, appearing to be in one thread say, as an alliterative character who composes quite enjoyable multimedia compositions in one thread, a nature loving person who shares glimpses of a lovely world, sometimes more closely than than the unaided eye can, in photographs and then confounds at least this reader with appearing in another thread to be a quasi-closeted nazi. Very confusing, indeed, these personas can be!

Just please, when time's ripe, first give us a heads-up by posting Helter Skelter, ok?
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Re: Questioning Consciousness

Postby chump » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:43 pm

I’m casting no stones by making this statement, because it’s simply a fact that: You in particular, for whatever reason and probably on purpose - wherever you post, are promptly presenting the progressive agenda proper-ganda… and now your persona is quaintly calling me a ‘quasi-closeted naz…’

Hey??



However you imagine 911 happened, the seminal catastrophe definitely started a-lotta discussion - surreptitiously linking a lotta civilians to a similar vision and revelation… reading and writing, round and round, the media created reality tunnel.

’EVERYTHING posted is propaganda… whether the poster knows it or not’; because the discussion presented is always about something we saw on the mainstream television… where most individuals learn their notion of the nature of the universe surrounding our selves; and where we can watch special people expounding upon those propositions of Time and Space - presented by the patrons paying the bills with made up money, that eventually formulate the mainstreams’ respected, corporatist, elitist, institutional, foundationally funded, professionally financed, seriously suffering, educational system of questioning consciousness… connecting our society, such as it is.
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