Conspiracy a Religion?

[IanEye]

Sometimes I think Conspiracy theory can be a self perpetuating double bind of desiring mystery and wanting simplistic answers.

you woke up screaming aloud
a prayer from your secret god
you feed off our fears
and hold back your tears

give us a tantrum
and a know it all grin
just when we need one
when the evening's thin

oh you're a beautiful
a beautiful fucked up man
you're setting up your
razor wire shrine

'cause you're working
building a mystery
holding on and holding it in
yeah you're working
building a mystery
and choosing so carefully.....

[compared2what?]

Brekin, WHAT do you want to know, and TO WHAT END?

Nothin' but love to you, I'm just howling into the wind, hence the shouting.

[brekin]

compared2what? wrote:

Brekin, WHAT do you want to know, and TO WHAT END?

Nothin' but love to you, I'm just howling into the wind, hence the shouting.

What?: The Truth in all its disguises.

What End?: The liberation of humanity from its own ignorance.

I've got room for three in my car, anybody game?

[8bitagent]

Like I said, I think Conspiracy at its worst becomes a Religion. But I have to wonder having said all this, at its best, could it be a connection with the divine?

Oh I couldnt agree more! I prefer the term "deep politic research" or "activist", but yeah...there is NO doubt there is an orthodoxy and religious like dogma to "conspiracy culture".

It's all about balance...you want to be aware, sure. But when people start to get real paranoid, withdrawn, OR where it effects their daily lives...social or relationship(marriage, girlfriends, friendships, etc) THEN its a bad thing

Because if...IF there is a THEY, THEY win when we arent laughing, being creative, loving and on a path of positivity.

Course, when children are being kidnapped and ritually sacrificed by the elite, and globalization and war ravages countless people worldwide...
its hard to always be positive.

I say people need a sense of humor tho, really. Im very much in the "real world", I just like to think of myself as "aware". More aware perhaps than the average liberal:)

It's funny...

I firmly believe that a "Satanic" global elite in collusion with non human intelligence is controlling the world and behind most of the major events and shaping the past and future.

But I also believe laughter is the best medicine, and it's good to be the opposite of paranoid.

I also realize that as much as I reject the Abrahamic faiths and see them as a way to control, I sometimes come off like some evangelical preacher:)

But yeah...you do kind of have to have a sense of humor and just try and persue one's own dreams and help others when possible. Joining Greenpeace, Unicef, etc isnt going to solve the world. But there's small things we can all do to enrich those around us.

I'm not advocating not pursuing the truth, or that some, or many conspiracy theories couldn't be valid. It's that it is very seductive to want to believe in more conspiratorial reasons for events then less sexy reasons. Like a good creation myth, a good conspiracy theory has it's own logic that is almost predigested for you.

Like early man who believed that the God's had a stake in every mundane occurrence and were the origin of everything. It is almost disappointing when the nefarious powers that be aren't behind something. It's like having a slightly impotent God, it challenges your faith.

There's the initial "entertianment" factor.

"Hey Mike, you gotta come over...I got this documentary that will blow your mind and change the way you percieve the world"

But then the activist part kicks in. And you read in the mainstream, non fringe news of worldwide genocide, sex slavery, corporate evil, etc...and you think "God...imagine what kind of shit doesnt get reported"

I always try and keep a balance of real world happenings with the more
"out there". I try and keep very abreast of strife and even small areas of concern worldwide(like worker's rights in south America, water treatment in India, globalization, human rights abuses in the middle east, etc)

There are vast conspiracies. But I think those of us who see that would do well to remember that few of us—probably none—possess the final answer as to exactly how all of them "fit together."

I can't help but have a unified theory that ties all of the para politic/deep politics/Fortean/coverups/etc into a several thousand year thread, but...

you have a pretty good point. I think when (again, lack of another not so cringeworthy word) "conspiracy" culture overtakes things, and becomes dogmatic...its negative.

Also, waking up ala Neo to the world around you not being as you once believed...is not really a solution to much.

Thats why I was unnerved by the attacks on the Dalai Lama in the other thread, because I find some of his simple words of wisdom..while they arent going to help an 8 year old sex slave working in a factory, or innocent Muslims being bombed...for a lot of people, it's simplistic yet straight forward ideas toward trying to live without too much stress

I think now, my favorite "conspiracy" personality or preacher, would be the Reverend Billy:)

[8bitagent]

Anti-conspiracy is just as much a religion. Conspiracy is a buzz word.

I don't care. My terms are deep politics and parapolitics.

My slogan is, "I want to know."

Right on. I call it "deep politics", or "para politic research"...tho this does often dovetail with science, anthropology, religion, technology and the occult.

I cringe every time I hear someone use the "conspiracy theorist" label

I mean Fox News has now said the anthrax came from several high ranking scientists at a high level government army lab. Yet people like you and I are still called nutjobs

It's not a religion, I think calling it a fandom fits the bill better in most cases.

Yeah a 9/11 conference I went to almost felt more like 9/11 Truth Fandom in some ways

"Dude, I will totally trade you that Silverstein Pull It card for a Steven Jones thermate card...wait, I want that Illuminati Rockefeller card too...ooh, wait, lets run over to hall B...I think theyre showing the premiere of Loose Terror
Ripple Effect director's cut!"

There is a renewed effort to puff up the stereotype of the irrational paranoid "conspiracy theorist" while more conspiracies are uncovered in history and as they happen.

Isnt it funny how the right wing accuses the left wing of being conspiracy idiots, but then the left wing often accuses people like you and I of being "tinfoil nuts". People suffer from cognitive dissonance...

and MAKE NO MISTAKE, "conspiracy theorist" IS the new "commie" label straight out of Mccarthyism. Hell it even costs people their job, and actors their livlihood.

Somehow questioning 9/11 is the greatest mortal sin in American culture.

[thurnundtaxis]

I'd say CT is definitely not a religion in that it's practice offers its followers very little in the way of salvation.

Religion,on the other hand, is most assuredly a conspiracy of controlling interests doling out "sacred truths" to the masses. Though the analogy of vested interests offering dogmatic enlightenment might be relevant to both causes the ritual practices of religion have a function that I can find no strong corollary for in the conspiracy world. "Inside Job", may appear to be a mantra or type of prayer but it seems more like an advertising slogan than a holy precept. -To me at least...

If CT is a religion it is certainly one full of sects and schisms, self-initiates alongside crass profiteers.

IMO

[Eldritch]

Somehow questioning 9/11 is the greatest mortal sin in American culture.

American "culture" is a mortal sin in itself.

And you're right about that stupid phrase, "conspiracy theorist." It's thrown around just about anytime someone asks an unpopular question—and it often says more about the intelligence of the one speaking it than it does the one spoken about.

[Joe Hillshoist]

brekin years ago i wrote an essay at uni about conspiracy theories being religious.

Sort of.

It was more that conspiracy theory becomes a process of "self initiation" into western culture. In many cases it stalls, and you end up with an alex jones type archetype, or david icke. But in some cases it moves beyond that and the the "believer" becomes an "adult".

Not believing or disbelieving any particular worldview but assessing each on the evidence available and the relevence to their life.

Looking back its not that great or eye opening today, but I wrote it in the mid 90s I think. Long time ago before the net was what it is today, before 911, or "terrorism", before GATTs, before Chemtrails, when the X files was still young. It was also long before I had any real access to the internerd. (Cept via uni computers and I only used that to access course materials and the like, I still don't know what usenet means.)

It explored how religion can be dogmatic following some revelation, as can a "conspiracy theory", but an enlightened and mature/developed mind can move beyond the dogma and use the revelation as a way to further understand the world and how the individual relates to it/has a place in it.

"Conspiracy theory" can follow the same process in a culture where government is seen as benign or fundamentally "good", and materialist or other dogmatic worldviews based on consumption and "reason" are seen as the best ways to interpret reality.

Conspiracy theory could refer to any belief concerning the aliens are coming, or to the October surprise and Iran Contra, or to the Assassinations in the US during the 60s, or any combination of them and other ideas., Bilderbergers CFR etc etc.

People are often raised to believe the "official story" (in todays terms) whatever that is, a mainstream consensus construct of some kind or another. Something occurs that shows them the false basis of the official story and thats the begining of the "revelation".

It was actually a pretty good piece of work, and I got some very high marks for it. But it was basically a rip off of RAW and some other peoples work. Not that my lecturers had read any of that.

Its on a 3.5 inch disk somewhere in the house, however these days I don't think my computer has a drive for one of those dinosaur storage devices.

One of these days I'll get off my backside and finish that degree, (yeah right!!!).

[8bitagent]

I'd love to see that paper...some darn good articles from the alt.net, bbs and early internet days I recall.

Like some religion, there's definately some code words, mantras, etc prevelant. My good friend who for some reason has become a full on Jehovah's Witness, uses words like "were in the truth", or "worldly".

In "conspiracyland", you may here words or shorthand, mixed with mantras and such. NWO, Truther, CFR, Bilderberg, False Flag, revelation of the method, mind control, etc.

For the higher initiate subset, you may here words like "BCCI", "P2", etc

Of course, there is alllllways, always "schisms" and ironies.

You have some who believe that "Crypto Jews" and Zionists control Washington and the world.

Then you have those who believe such talk is Nazi propaganda, and that the Nazis actually continued on covertly through the military industrial complex

You have some who believe the Founding Father's words(or, quotes allegedly attributed to them) stand up against the tyranny we see today...
others however who see the founding fathers as nothing more than
Satanic masons

You have those who see the NWO doing all it can to hamper the UN's peacekeeping missions...others who see the UN itself as part of the NWO

Those that believe the NWO is trying to hide global warming and deny it, and those that believe global warming itself is an NWO hoax

Those that believe communist countries are good, and trying to fight the good fight against Bush and the Western world...and those who think
that communism itself is a tool of the elite

Those that believe its a dire fight between those before Christ and the Devil...and those that think Christianity itself is a made up tool of the elite

So again, a lot of disperate, varying ideas out there in "questioning" land.

[OP ED]

So: What do you want to know, and why?

Please think seriously about your answer whether you plan on posting it or not. They are serious questions.

1. Everything.

2. Exactly.

Those are the most serious answers I can give you. I mean, what do you want me to say? "Knowing is Half the Battle"?

[FourthBase]

Perhaps anything in which we inordinately invest our identities can become our religion. Then we can't allow the legitimacy of a challenge to it, because it risks ourselves.

I would leap for joy if none of these conspiratorial phenomena existed.
Problem is, the phenomena are just too goddamned real.

So no, conspiracy theory (or as I prefer to call it, realism) is not a religion.

[8bitagent]

Perhaps anything in which we inordinately invest our identities can become our religion. Then we can't allow the legitimacy of a challenge to it, because it risks ourselves.

I would leap for joy if none of these conspiratorial phenomena existed.
Problem is, the phenomena are just too goddamned real.

So no, conspiracy theory (or as I prefer to call it, realism) is not a religion.

thats the thing...people say "youre just one of these people that has to weave some fantasy to make life seem more interesting...face it, its just mass incompetence"

And to that I say "no, I truly wish none of what I asserted was true...my God
that would be quite the weight off I'd say"

[brekin]

Some really interesting, thoughtful responses on this thread. I wonder because the topic carries with it an admission of beliefs or non-beliefs people are speaking more from a more unguarded part.

I was reminded of Eric Hoffer's The True Believer while reading over a lot it. Here are some of his quotes that I find helpful to consider from time to time:

Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
Eric Hoffer

Power corrupts the few, while weakness corrupts the many.
Eric Hoffer

The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not.

Eric Hoffer

Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for both.
-- Eric Hoffer

The savior who wants to turn men into angels is as much a hater of human nature as the totalitarian despot who wants to turn them into puppets.
-- Eric Hoffer

When our individual interests and prospects do not seem worth living for, we are in desperate need for something apart from us to live for. All forms of dedication, devotion, loyalty and self-surrender are in essence a desperate clinging to something which might give worth and meaning to our lives.
-- Eric Hoffer

There is a powerful craving in most of us to see ourselves as instruments in the hands of others and thus free ourselves from the responsibility for acts which are prompted by our own questionable inclinations and impulses.
-- Eric Hoffer

A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business.
-- Eric Hoffer

When we believe ourselves in possession of the only truth, we are likely to be indifferent to common everyday truths.
-- Eric Hoffer

The suspicious mind believes more than it doubts. It believes in a formidable and ineradicable evil lurking in every person.
-- Eric Hoffer

The ignorant are a reservoir of daring. It almost seems that those who have yet to discover the known are particularly equipped for dealing with the unknown. The unlearned have often rushed in where the learned feared to tread, and it is the credulous who are tempted to attempt the impossible. They know not whither they are going, and give chance a chance.
-- Eric Hoffer

[FourthBase]

That Hoffer dude has definitely read a little Nietzsche. Great quotes!

[Joe Hillshoist]

Too right.

(Thats why I still play footy.)