third party choice thread

[mentalgongfu2]

Is there a thread anywhere dealing with alternative political parties? I'm specifically thinking USA, but other countries experiences could be a valuable resource.

I was thinking of starting a thread in one of the politics forums to explore ideas on how to establish/commandeer viable political organizations that are alternatives to the two-major party paradigm in America, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel if I don't need to.

[Jeff]

Thanks mentalgongfu2, good topic. I do think it's better suited for General Discussion than the Lounge, however, so I'm going to move it over there.

[OP ED]

I think commandeering ALL of the political parties with an internal party would be a reasonable approach. Fighting fire with fire, as they say.

[mentalgongfu2]

The thing is, there are several parties active in the U.S.A. other than the Democrats and Republicans, but they have no visibility and seem to have weak organization. As Ron Paul has demonstrated, there are more than enough people in America who are fed up with the status quo, but they have nowhere to turn to. How does one begin to make voting Green, Libertarian, Socialist, or Whatever into something that can have an impact?

What is missing?

Obviously, there are huge hurdles such as media blackouts and exclusion from debates, but I'm looking for examples, ideas and tactics, not explanations and excusees.

[OP ED]

Strategically speaking, 3rd parties [in america, at least] are probably lacking most in finance. Both in the extent of their funding and/or how effectively they use it. The establishment parties get effectively "free" coverage in the media that supports (is) the establisment.

Probably the best bet from the grassroots POV would be to design and develop superior communications abilities between the various isolated fringes and the uncommitted. That 50% that almost never votes at all would probably make for a good place to start recruiting for a new party.

I prefer the idea of non-political movement lateral to party lines, wherein the general interests of the center majority intersect [we're all being fucked, generally speaking, most people agree on that] and setting obvious [semicatholic] goals for such a cause.

The Seizure of Political Power (in a century of revolutions) by Feliks Gross warped my worldview forever when I acquired it [via garagesale] at age 13.

it discusses various types of movements from top, middle, and bottom, and evaluates their relative merits and failings. It also provides a good general overview of Russian political maneuvering circa 19/20th centuries.

it also accounts [personally] for a significant portion of "why i am here".

from my POV it basically demonstrates that a movement of any sort can have temporary effects, but it is probable that a combined effort from most [all] demographics would be absolutely neccessary is one wished to truly acomplish something as-of-yet-not-seen.

but it is possible.

[Joe Hillshoist]

That sounds like a book worth reading OP ED.

Cheers.

[ninakat]

Dmitry Orlov has some ideas for a new political party:

The Collapse Party platform

[Eldritch]

What good are two parties—or even a third—if the vote is as manipulable as it appears?

[OP ED]

What good are two parties—or even a third—if the vote is as manipulable as it appears?

Something to add to the manifesto.
who wants to start a list?

[OP ED]

Also, the 3D party, potentially, really needs to learn to play the game properly, which is why I favor, as a front, a nonpartisan proactive lateral movement. learn to use their own ideas against them.


their own ideas:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... 609#176609

for example, you go imitate cointelpro, and agitate on limbaugh's forums. Like the ultra-radical fake orgs who show up at antiwar demonstrations to make the movement seem marginalized and insane, to discourage those towards the middle from further participation. i saw several "marxists" at the rally in detroit, advocating violence and all sorts of nonsense. it made the experience unpleasant. gatekeeping would've been pleasant by comparison.

espouse ultra-eccentric-yet-believable beliefs that are extreme examples of REAL party dirty behavior. depict it as positive to discourage moderates from obeying the establishment as they do to the fringe.

Republicans Against Progressive Education is my own personal favorite non-existant splinter group. they do not exist, but their literature was passed among Romney supporters in the great lakes region. they argue that public schools should not teach accurate history, because it makes the colonialist policies of the ultra right look bad. it gives examples of actual historical information that it "fears" "liberals" will tell "our children" about. All carefully constructed using the right-wing-C.T. framing devices [but not anything that isn't a FACT except the existence of the "author" of the literature] Cite neutral "scientific" sources.

[you can borrow the name if you like, i don't own a copyright]

etc. etc.

I proposing a combination of traditional political manuevering and dirty tricks. I apologize if this offends anyone. But it is getting late, and I'm no longer in the mood for fucking around.

[PeterofLoneTree]

A third party I've had experience with is the Greens.
Their website is http://www.gp.org/index.php
On the left side of that homepage are several categories including "STATES."
If you click on that, a map of the U.S. will appear and you can then click on your "home" state and perhaps discover local events of interest.
The "highest ranking" Green politician is John Eder of the Maine State Legislature.

[§ê¢rꆧ]

Don't forget the Pirate Party in Sweden

http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english

The Pirate Party wants to fundamentally reform copyright law, get rid of the patent system, and ensure that citizens' rights to privacy are respected. With this agenda, and only this, we are making a bid for representation in the European and Swedish parliaments.

Although I'll admit that Collapse Party looks more immediately relevant... interesting link, thanks..

[isachar]

Also, the 3D party, potentially, really needs to learn to play the game properly, which is why I favor, as a front, a nonpartisan proactive lateral movement. learn to use their own ideas against them.


their own ideas:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... 609#176609

for example, you go imitate cointelpro, and agitate on limbaugh's forums. Like the ultra-radical fake orgs who show up at antiwar demonstrations to make the movement seem marginalized and insane, to discourage those towards the middle from further participation. i saw several "marxists" at the rally in detroit, advocating violence and all sorts of nonsense. it made the experience unpleasant. gatekeeping would've been pleasant by comparison.

espouse ultra-eccentric-yet-believable beliefs that are extreme examples of REAL party dirty behavior. depict it as positive to discourage moderates from obeying the establishment as they do to the fringe.

Republicans Against Progressive Education is my own personal favorite non-existant splinter group. they do not exist, but their literature was passed among Romney supporters in the great lakes region. they argue that public schools should not teach accurate history, because it makes the colonialist policies of the ultra right look bad. it gives examples of actual historical information that it "fears" "liberals" will tell "our children" about. All carefully constructed using the right-wing-C.T. framing devices [but not anything that isn't a FACT except the existence of the "author" of the literature] Cite neutral "scientific" sources.

[you can borrow the name if you like, i don't own a copyright]

etc. etc.

I proposing a combination of traditional political manuevering and dirty tricks. I apologize if this offends anyone. But it is getting late, and I'm no longer in the mood for fucking around.

So, basically a synthesis of Trotsky, Rove and Hoffman (Abbie).

Nice.

It could work.

[OP ED]

I'm not a nice person, really. I do not think that marching about is going to solve our problems. Nor will playing by the rules, except, y'know in the purely technical sense (this is where the dirty tricks come in) so that no one can be accused of illegal activities. I dunno. I'm just sick of always seeing only the good guys get smeared.

it would also need to be decentralized, to avoid cointelpro-type snares and hijacking until it would be too late.

if you keep your goals simple and obvious it should be more difficult to force marginalization of your movement. and frankly there is more than enough discontent that is shared universally to cement people of divergent "political" views together for common purposes.

I'm trying to imagine a realistic scenario wherein your parties' goals have at least a snowball's chances of survival.

[FourthBase]

The first third party in American national politics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Masonic_Party