Symposium on the Devil.

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Does Meredith Hunter looke like he's stumbling, staggering, lurching, or otherwise unsteady as he takes aim?

Yes.
1
17%
No.
0
No votes
I dunno.
5
83%
 
Total votes : 6

Symposium on the Devil.

Postby compared2what? » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:22 am

Well.

Image

Above is a picture of Meredith Hunter, about to be stabbed by a Hell's Angel at Altamont in 1969. Click here for the page it came from, which has a precis of the received wisdom about that concert (end of the '60s, blah, blah, blah), which isn't and never has been anything other than spin. Although the blogger is right in saying "Gimme Shelter" is a masterpiece. But it would have been even if Altamont had never happened. Which it might not have, if Jack-Ruby-Defense-Attorney Mel Belli hadn't arranged it at the last minute after the guy who was originally renting the land for the already-announced free show withdrew from the deal at the last moment.

Below, a link to a shitty quality ten-minute clip that ends with the stabbing and the slo-mo roll-back of it described at the above link (and starts in the middle of "Sympathy for the Devil.") In between are a few of the most frightening minutes in movie history, during which the Stones play "Under My Thumb."

Hunter appears briefly in the crowd at about 3:45 in. Right at the end of "Under My Thumb," he reenters from the left-hand side of the frame, and though the blogger whose picture I swiped seems to think it's ambiguous, it looks crystal clear to me that he is perhaps about 0.5 seconds of shooting Mick Jagger when Passaro comes flying out of nowhere in an astonishingly efficient street-fighting maneuver, given how chaotic an environment they're in. Though to be fair, contrary to received wisdom, he is (apparently) acting more or less in the line of duty. Though the knife might not really have been necessary. But whatever. A jury acquitted him based on the footage, and it's easy to see why.

There is practically zero information about Hunter in the public domain. I have a vague notion that he was an inner-city kid from Berkley, no notable record, and hadn't been in, like, Vacaville or anything that conveniently suggestive. However, it was the Bay Area in 1969, and it's not like no one was trying to start a race war in California at around that time.

Also, though I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about when it comes to what's usual or unusual for people shooting other people, Hunter looks to me like an assassin who knows his business. He appears to get into position by spinning to the ground and rolling up into full ready-to-shoot stance. As noted, he is dealt with very quickly. And, as you can see in the picture, somebody is crazy enough to be trying to restrain Passaro, either from stabbing Hunter or from preventing Hunter's shot. I attribute that to...drugs? I don't know. Here's the clip.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQkHndvGR4w

Can I get a witness who knows what trained assassins look like?

I've wondered about this for decades. If Hunter was aiming at Jagger, and had managed to shoot him, that would indeed have put a little extra oomph into the falsiness of the Altamont killed the '60s spin. And maybe someone wanted to create that impression, and didn't feel certain Manson had been enough on that front. To say nothing of his total failure to start a race war with reference to rock icons.
Last edited by compared2what? on Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Symposium on the Devil.

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:44 am

compared2what? wrote:Can I get a witness who knows what trained assassins look like?


Image

Good thread; should be moved to general discussion.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:59 am

Wow; I've never seen the footage; knew about it for years, though. The last frame is astounding seeing the gun outlined against the woman's dress.

And that guy onstage at 6:30 onwards looks like he's fighting being overcome by Sauron himself till he gets tossed offstage.

About the worst looking trip I've seen on anyone's face.

Mods, please move this thread..It will engage far more discussion in GD and I'd like to see it.
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Postby Jeff » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:47 am

et in Arcadia ego wrote:Mods, please move this thread..It will engage far more discussion in GD and I'd like to see it.


I agree. Moving to GD...
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:13 pm

I've enhanced the pictures.

Scary stuff; uploading now.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:19 pm

Three shots(very difficult to capture youtube frames):

one: Hunter is made by this chick:

Image

two: Hunter's gun is very easy to see here:

Image

three: The angel catches him(he's holding the gun in his left hand in the previous capture. In this frame, it appears his gun arm is foreshortened, possibly aiming at the stage, or maybe his arm is behind him, but it doesn't look that way to me, looks like he's lining up a shot..):

Image

Seemed the guy had several people jump him at once. I didn't catch the Angel being hindered, but if he was, its likely by concert goers that didn't know they had a Sirhan Sirhan standing next to them..

Wow.
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Postby sunny » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:20 pm

Jeff, I tried 5 times to move it but the board would not yield to my command. :evil: Kept giving me the old invalid_session. grr.

Anyhoo, I agree this is a fascinating discussion. I've never read much about Altamont, but even an uninformed person thinks "Altamont =Hell's Angel stabbed and killed a guy". I think it would be very instructive to learn more about Mr. Hunter.

Here's a picture of the outline of the gun against the woman's dress you were talking about et:

Image

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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:28 pm

Image
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:29 pm

Helter Skelter, phase two.

Consider the impact of a black man killing one of the Stones would have had in this country at the time.
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Postby IanEye » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:47 pm

first off, kudos to you c2w? - where it seems i frequently start threads in General Discussion, only to see them moved into the Lounge, you have pulled off the reverse, which is much more interesting.

Gimme Shelter is easily the most watched DVD in my collection. I never get tired of it.

et in Arcadia ego wrote:And that guy onstage at 6:30 onwards looks like he's fighting being overcome by Sauron himself till he gets tossed offstage.

About the worst looking trip I've seen on anyone's face.


i don't even have to watch the clip to know what you are talking about here - if you notice, the man in question does not get pushed off the stage until he takes his Hell's Angels jacket off. That was his mistake, if he had left it on he could have continued melting and been left alone....
_

It was seeing this movie for the first time in high school that i became a Keith fan - i love it when he points his long finger at the Angel and then out at the crowd -
"if those cat's don't stop it Man!!"

also, when he is so lost in a groove that he isn't even aware of anything else and Mick has to come over to get him to stop playing

Personally, I consider this Maysles footage just as fascinating as the Zapruder footage - i never tire of examining it - i love how the rent-a-cops appear only after the stabbing, this could be editing, but it certainly seems like they are barely present before this incident
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Postby sunny » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:06 pm

Kudos to that chick, she's got some huge ovaries.
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Postby IanEye » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:22 pm

for the general state of my paranoia i have always been thankful that that woman isn't wearing a white dress with black polka dots - i don't think i could handle that.....
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Postby streeb » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:26 pm

I agree that this is an awesome thread C2W. I've probably watched Gimme Shelter about 30 times now. It's the purest vision of hell on film. Especially the closing minutes as people stream over hills in silhouette, trying to get out, images that are naturally redolent of Vietnam. Or, even more stunning to me for some reason, and something that seems to put the exclamation point on everything: when that fucking dog strolls across the stage. It's the perfect, absurd symbol for the (Operation) chaos that's going down at that moment. And poor old Mick, trying to turn it all around with a dance. Incredible.

And let's not forget that Gimme Shelter offers the one known opportunity to see Gram Parson's ass climbing into a helicopter.

The footage of the Burrito Bros is lovely. I was told some years ago that every minute of the Burritos captured ended up on the screen, which I don't believe.

Anyway - about the OP, I never considered that Hunter was an assassin. Or that he was any more than a random dude with a gun, to be more precise. Shows you how much I've learned since I have at minimum decided that Altamont was a black op. But I figured the scenario was just: put a bunch of hippies on an island (so to speak), and unleash the Angels, the speed, and the bad acid. The rest will take care of itself. I had Belli in the scenario, of course, but didn't make the leap you're proposing.

Of course, either way, they got what they wanted to a greater or lesser degree. Cue the "end of the 60s" blah blah blah...

Interesting that the stories about a hit on Jagger by the Angels made the news cycle again recently. Like... so? The average Stones fan has known that for years.

Anybody see SCTV's Gimme Jackie? "Love filled magic, everywhere!"
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Postby barracuda » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:49 pm

Yeah, streeb, I've always seen this moment as emnbematic of the end of quality LSD due to the federal crackdown against Leary and Owsley. The Hells Angels were and are known (whether acurately or not) far and wide for their ability to make and distribute meth, and that guy on stage has clearly had too much along with his acid.

The red and white wanted to kill Jagger for events surrounding this concert, right? As well as for his effeminacy, I believe.

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Postby streeb » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:00 pm

The red and white wanted to kill Jagger for events surrounding this concert, right? As well as for his effeminacy, I believe.


Heh. Probably. I've wanted to kill him ever since "Let's Work".

The Angels allegedly went after Jagger when he dropped them as the private goodvibes security force. But following C2W's suggestion, maybe somebody said, 'fuck it, just give Barger the contract...'
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