Pay no mind to the Mossad agent on the line

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Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:11 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:3)[b] Maurice "Hank" Green
Oh, yeah. There's also the little fact that the Netherlands-based company that provided "security" for the WTC as well as Logan and Airports, ICTS, is an Israeli-owned and run company with...you guessed it...very high-level ties to the Israeli government. ICTS was also in charge of security at the Charles de Gaulle airport where "Shoe Bomber" Richard Reid boarded his flight to Logan airport in Boston. In yet another bizarre coincidence, the Tavistock bus apparently exploded in front of the ICTS offices in London, during the 7/7 attacks.

[b]Menahem J. Atzmon, Olmert's co-defendant and ally, was convicted in Israel but went on to become the founder and head of International Consultants on Targeted Security (ICTS). This Israeli-run company is the owner of Huntleigh USA, the airport security firm that ran passenger screening operations at the airports of Boston and Newark on 9/11.

Huntleigh USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of ICTS, a Netherlands-based aviation and transportation security firm headed by “former [Israeli] military commanding officers and veterans of government intelligence and security agencies.”

Ptech, a computer software company in Quincy, Mass., was supposedly a small start-up company founded by a Lebanese Muslim and funded by a Saudi millionaire.

Yet Ptech's clients included all the key federal governmental agencies, including the U.S. Army, the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Naval Air Command, Congress, the Department of Energy, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Internal Revenue Service, NATO, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service and even the White House.


You got it.

The PTECH/Mitre FAA/NORAD thing is unmistakable. This company that links Wahhabist Saudis to the US government and to I guess possible Israeli nationals shows how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Ptech I believe is the smoking gun and rosetta stone of 9/11, who may have had AI software override all systems on 9/11 including the FAA and NORAD.

Also, the ICTS security at 9/11 is interesting, as well as OKC bombing suspect "John Doe #2" al Husseini Hussein doing baggage handling at Boston Logan the morning of 9/11.
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Re: mossad meme

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:14 pm

hava1 wrote:
---
I totally agree with bitagent re 9-11, a "militia-mafia" organization, with Israeli operatives in it, but not under their official roles strictly speaking. There are many such groupings in the arms dealership corp world, and one of those orgs could easily (well, not very easily ) pull this operation. And they all have friends in the Bush admin/neocon/rumsfeld crowds. The Israeli part could have been ex-operatives, mobsters, and "non conventional warfare types", those who have no accountability and lots of powers and means. fascists, in a global world, basically. Sharon too might have been on it, but not in his role as PM of Israel, that might sound weird but he had bigger business than just running Israel (to the ground)...so it seems.


All one needs to look at is BCCI, Dubai banks, the CIA backed Bosnian jihad, drug running routes, and the linking of Saudi-Pakistani-Israeli-Turkish networks with the US government to see how 9/11 wasnt an "inside job", but a meta-job by a group of transnational corporate crooks who arent beholden to any country per se.
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Postby 8bitagent » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:17 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
tom the mad wrote:Hello Searcher08

"The Odigo myth I refer to was that of Odigo employees at the WTC being informed in advance ".

http://www.911myths.com/html/odigo.html

I am mortified that you can regard the above site as anything but a joke......

I remember, a while ago, comments about 50,000 employees at the towers.....lucky for many then...

William Rodriguez......stated "thousands" didn't turn up for work....


I find 911myths.com an *extremely* mixed bunch - if you want to see a pile of unmitigated poop, try reading what they write explaining how it was quite "normal" for Mr Atta and co to be hard-drinking, coke snortin stripper luving b-a-d dudes... he does get FOIA information, which can be interesting though. In general anything that approaches the "deep state" arena and I totally agree, that site is very poor.

The Odigo thing I think is important because some Nazi types put forward that all Jews were "warned off" - have a look at the list of dead to nix that one.


The NWO behind 9/11 engineered it to have a layer where people were pointing "to the Jews". Thats why they had Israeli spies in some vague attached role even if the spies themselves were not in on it.

The first conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 were "missing Jews/Israel did it", even top Pakistani ISI officials who were in on 9/11 were saying "Mossad did it". Bush even said "let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories about 9/11" because even in november 2001 people were starting to question 9/11...
and it was important to associate 9/11 questions with Anti Semitism

Netanyahu has repeatedly said "9/11 was VERY good for Israel".

9/11 was also good for Russia, England, and the rest of the globalist goons out there.
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Postby unaltered » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:09 pm

The first conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 were "missing Jews/Israel did it", even top Pakistani ISI officials who were in on 9/11 were saying "Mossad did it". Bush even said "let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories about 9/11" because even in november 2001 people were starting to question 9/11...
and it was important to associate 9/11 questions with Anti Semitism


One of the very first to accuse Israel was LaRouche, the fascist. He was followed quickly by pretty much everyone in the red brown alliances and hordes of rabid antizionists/antiIsrael types with a special attention to every wacky possibility paid special attention to in the Arab press.

Even if there was undeniable proof that Israel/Mossad played no part at all one could never convince this sad lot. No doubt too, they were fed to discredit as well. The cottage industry of linking every Jewish name and business to said conspiracy continues today without even a nod to the reality that, yes, there are a lot of Jews, who are business people in New York who can be used in some 6 degrees of seperation game to indict Israel and Jews.

All I know for sure is that anything that comes out of LaRouche's mouth so quick should be taken with the hugest grain of salt that exists.

And of course, Bibi never said what you suggest...it's an urban myth.

What he said was

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

Netanyahu reportedly made the comments during a conference at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/975574.html

Now this was reported in Haaretz, reporting what Ma'ariv alleges he said so whether even that was true is questionable. Some may find no difference between the two quotes but one would expect that people would get it right after all this time.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:31 am

unaltered said:

One of the very first to accuse Israel was LaRouche, the fascist. He was followed quickly by pretty much everyone in the red brown alliances and hordes of rabid antizionists/antiIsrael types with a special attention to every wacky possibility paid special attention to in the Arab press.


As one of those "sad lot", a proud, card-carrying member of the red brown alliances and hordes of antizionists/antiIsrael types, I find it amusing that in your desperation to avoid responding to any of my points, you grasp at the Larouche straw. This reminds me of the late, unlamented Dream's End, who, though he towered above you both in intellect and in the effort he put into his posts, was frequently reduced to the exact same cheap tactic, so don't feel too bad. I used to wonder who the hell this Larouche guy was, and if he was so important, why hadn't I heard about him?

I soon realized that Larouche, like Abu Musab al Zarqawi, is one of those straw bogeymen where, if they didn't exist, someone would have had to invent them. Booga-booga.

Anyway, back to the actual topic: the crime of the September 11 attacks, and whether or not there is reason to deduce a major Israeli role.

When a crime is committed, who is and who is not a legitimate suspect depends on the answers to the following questions:

1) Who benefited from the crime? The bigger the benefit, the higher the suspect ought to go on the list of possible perps.

2) Who had the means to carry out the crime? This is where a proper investigation becomes crucial, to determine HOW the crime was carried out. Once we know what resources the crime required, then it becomes possible to narrow the list of suspects to those who had the necessary resources.

3) What was the motive (or motives) for the crime? Before the crime was committed, which suspects had objectives that were difficult, if not impossible to achieve, that were miraculously realized as a direct result of the crime?

4) Given the means and motive, which suspect(s) had the opportunity to carry out the crime? This is related to timing: what specific window of opportunity were the perps in a position to know about and exploit?

Based on these four questions, Israel (along with its agents) shoots to the top of the list of suspects. Here's why:

1) Whether financially, politically or militarily, Israel (and its agents) is the single largest beneficiary of the September 11 attacks. Individuals linked at the highest level to the Israeli government, made billions of dollars. The 9/11 attacks directly produced the monstrous "Department of Homeland Security" -- not only headed and staffed with zionist zealots, but perfectly positioned to divert massive amounts of taxpayers' cash to Israeli firms and agents, also providing plenty of funds to buy new allies and friends.

Corporations linked to the Israeli government were deluged with lucrative new contracts. New so-called 'security-sharing agreements' were signed between Israel and its agents embedded in Western nations, bizarre arrangements in which these nations effectively surrendered their sovereignty and the privacy of their citizens to the Mossad.

Israel was able to exploit the so-called "War on Terror" to launch a massive re-invasion and re-occupation of the territories it had ceded to the Palestinian Authority under the Oslo Agreement, in early 2002. Under the cover of this "War" Israel proceeded to openly and unapologetically assassinate the Palestinian leadership, including its former "peace partner" Yasser Arafat, without a peep of protest from the "free world" at this and so many other cold-blooded murders.

Israel's longstanding efforts to dehumanize and demonize its Muslim and Arab victims acquired a gloss of legitimacy and respectability. The 9/11 attacks opened the floodgates of vicious, racist propaganda portraying Arabs and Muslims as the enemy of Americans, and the Israelis as valuable allies. If, as can be shown, the myth of the 19 hijackers falls apart the closer one examines it, then it becomes reasonable to ask whether there was a specific intent to associate the attacks with Arabs and Muslims, and, that being the case, who would have a strong motive to do so.

Israel's old dream of infiltrating and destroying Iraq was realized as a direct result of the 9/11 attacks, which were blamed by its propaganda agents on the evil mastermind Saddam Hussein. A right-wing zionist fanatic and Likudnik, Jay Garner, was installed as Iraq's new ruler. Israeli "security consultants" joyfully swarmed into the country -- hundreds of Israeli companies were granted lucrative contracts and sub-contracts, all at the expense of the American and Iraqi people (the former paid with their wealth and the lives of their cannon-fodder soldiers, the latter paid with their wealth, their lives and their future).

All of this, and more, was made possible by the September 11 attacks.

2) In terms of who had the means to carry out the attacks, Israel and its agents are once again well-positioned. When we take into account the fact that the owners of the buildings, the firms responsible for the buildings' and airport security, the agents embedded within the Pentagon and NORAD's most sensitive security installations, as well as powerful individuals deeply embedded at the federal, state and city levels are linked to the Israeli government, it becomes clear that the resources to carry out the attacks -- and cover up incriminating evidence -- were more than sufficient for them to have done so.

3) In addition to the substantial benefits accruing to Israel and its agents that I outlined in point 1), which have literally transformed the globe in accordance with the most extremist zionists' feverish desires during the seven years since the attacks, we have a clear, unambiguous motive stated before the fact: the two documents produced by a cohesive group of zionist fanatics prior to their installation at the highest levels of decision-making power in the U.S., with the (s)election of George W. Bush in 2000.

These two documents, which have been described as the neocons' very own Mein Kampf, constitute strong evidence of a powerful motive for the 9/11 attacks by the very people who commanded the resources to carry them out, many of whom are little more than embedded agents working for Israel. The grandiose, terrifying plans outlined in these two papers seemed little more than the crazed mutterings of a few maniacs, who have been described as almost a sect -- until the September 11 attacks "changed everything" and miraculously gave them their 'catastrophic and catalyzing' event - like a new Pearl Harbor'.

In his fascinating analysis written in March of 2003, Pepe Escobar explains the roots and objectives of the Project for a New American Century, which in effect have become the objectives of the United States:

It's no surprise that Bush, on February 26, chose to unveil his vision of a new Middle Eastern order at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a right-wing Washington think tank. The PNAC's office is nowhere else than on the 5th floor of the AEI building on 17th St, in downtown Washington. The AEI is the key node of a collection of neoconservative foreign policy experts and scholars, the most influential of whom are members of the PNAC.

The AEI is intimately connected to the Likud Party in Israel - which for all practical purposes has a deep impact on American foreign policy in the Middle East, thanks to the AEI's influence. In this mutually-beneficial environment, AEI stalwarts are known as Likudniks. ...

The AEI's foreign policy agenda is presided over by none other than Richard Perle. As Perle is a longtime friend and advisor to Rumsfeld, he was rewarded with the post of chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board: its 30-odd very influential members include former national security advisers, secretaries of defense and heads of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Perle is also a very close friend of Pentagon number two Wolfowitz, since they were students at the University of Chicago in the late 1960s. Perle now reports to Wolfowitz.

On September 20, 2001, Perle went on overdrive, fully mobilizing the Defense Policy Board to forge a link between Saddam and al-Qaeda. The PNAC sent an open letter to Bush detailing how a war on terrorism should be conducted. The letter says that Saddam has to go "even if evidence does not link him to the attack". The letter lists other policies that later were implemented - like the gigantic increase of the defense budget and the total isolation of the Palestinian Authority (PA), as well as others that may soon follow, like striking Hezbollah in Lebanon and yet-to-be-formulated attacks against Iran and especially Syria if they do not stop support for Hezbollah.

The Bush administration strategy in the past few months of totally isolating the PA's Yasser Arafat and allowing Israeli premier Ariel Sharon to refuse as much as a handshake, was formulated by the PNAC. Another PNAC letter states that "Israel's fight is our fight ... for reasons both moral and strategic, we need to stand with Israel in its fight against terrorism". The PNAC detested the Camp David accords between Israel and the Palestinians. For the PNAC, a simmering, undeclared state of war against Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Iran is a matter of policy.

Perle, a former assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs under Reagan, is also a member of the board of the Jerusalem Post. He wrote a chapter - "Iraq: Saddam Unbound" - in Present Dangers, a PNAC book. He is very close to ultra-hawk Douglas Feith, who was his special counsel under Reagan and is now assistant secretary of defense for policy (one of the Pentagon's four most senior posts) and also a partner in a small Washington law firm that represents Israeli suppliers of munitions seeking deals with American weapons manufacturers. It was thanks to Perle - who personally defended his candidate to Rumsfeld - that Feith got his current job. He was one of the key people responsible for strategic planning in the war against the Taliban and is also heavily involved in planning the war against Iraq.

David Wurmser, former head of Middle Eastern projects at the AEI, is now special assistant to PNAC founder John Bolton, the undersecretary of State for arms control and a fierce enemy of multilateralism. Wurmser wrote Tyranny's Ally: America's failure to defeat Saddam Hussein, a book published by the AEI. The foreword is by none other than Perle. Meyrav Wurmser, David's wife, is a co-founder of the Middle East Media Research Institute [MEMRI].

In July 1996, Perle, Feith and the Wurmser couple wrote the notorious paper for an Israeli think tank charting a roadmap for Likud superhawk and then-incoming Israeli prime minister Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu. The paper is called "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm".

Perle, Feith and the Wurmsers tell Bibi that Israel must shelve the Oslo Accords, the so-called peace process, the concept of "land for peace", go for it and permanently annex the entire West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

The paper also recommends that Israel must insist on the elimination of Saddam, and the restoration of the Hashemite monarchy in Baghdad. This would be the first domino to fall, and then regime change would follow in Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Saudi Arabia. This 1996 blueprint is nothing else than Ariel Sharon's current agenda in action. In November last year, Sharon took the liberty to slightly modify the domino sequence by growling on the record that Iran should be next after Iraq.
...

Chalmers Johnson is president of the Japan Policy Research Institute, based in California, and author of Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire. A war veteran turned scholar, he could never be accused of anti-Americanism. His new book about American militarism, The Sorrows of Empire: How the Americans lost their Country, will be published in late 2003. Some of its insights are informative in confirming the role of the PNAC in setting American foreign policy.

Johnson is just one among many who suspect that "after being out of power with Clinton and back to power with Bush ... the neocons were waiting for a 'catastrophic and catalyzing' event - like a new Pearl Harbor" that would mobilize the public and allow them to put their theories and plans into practice. September 11 was, of course, precisely what they needed. National Security Advi Condoleezza Rice called together members of the National Security Council and asked them "to think about how do you capitalize on these opportunities to fundamentally change American doctrine, and the shape of the world, in the wake of September 11th". She said, "I really think this period is analogous to 1945 to 1947 when fear and paranoia led the US into its Cold War with the USSR".

Johnson continues: "The Bush administration could not just go to war with Iraq without tying it in some way to the September 11 attacks. So it first launched an easy war against Afghanistan. There was at least a visible connection between Osama bin Laden and the Taliban regime, even though the United States contributed more to Osama's development as a terrorist than Afghanistan ever did. Meanwhile, the White House launched one of the most extraordinary propaganda campaigns of modern times to convince the American public that an attack on Saddam Hussein should be a part of America's 'war on terrorism'. This attempt to whip up war fever, in turn, elicited an outpouring of speculation around the world on what were the true motives that lay behind President Bush's obsession with Iraq."

The Iraq war is above all Paul Wolfowitz's war. It's his holy mission. His cue was September 11. Slightly after Rumsfeld, on September 15, 2001 at Camp David, Wolfowitz was already advocating an attack on Iraq. There are at least three versions of what happened that day. As a reporter, the Washington Post's Bob Woodward (remember Watergate) used to bring down presidents; now he's a mere presidential public relations officer. In his book Bush at War he writes that Bush told Wolfowitz to shut up and let the number 1 (Rumsfeld) talk. The second version, defended by the New York Times, says that Bush listened attentively to Wolfowitz. But a third version relayed by diplomats holds that in Bush's executive order on September 17 authorizing war on Afghanistan, there's already a paragraph giving free reign to the Pentagon to draw plans for a war against Iraq.


4) Opportunity. In view of the fact that Israeli agents and Israeli-linked encryption and electronic security companies were in position at the highest echelons of the Pentagon and the White House before, during and after the September 11 attacks, it's hard to imagine a more ideal scenario to pull off such an operation.

8bitagent said:

You got it.

The PTECH/Mitre FAA/NORAD thing is unmistakable. This company that links Wahhabist Saudis to the US government and to I guess possible Israeli nationals shows how deep the rabbit hole goes.


"Wahhabist Saudis" are the patsies in an operation that was designed to fulfill Likudist objectives while setting up Arabs to take the blame.

There were no "Wahhabist Saudis" formulating policy for the White House, or embedded within the leadership of the Pentagon, spying on U.S. military installations or running the software that controls security systems for the most sensitive military and civilian applications. "Wahhabist Saudis" did not make billions upon billions of dollars in profits directly as a result of the September 11 attacks, individuals and companies linked to the Israeli government did. "Wahhabist Saudis" were in no position either to plan or to execute the crime, still less to cover up the physical and other evidence afterward. Nor is there any evidence that they were positioned as a consequence of the attacks, to benefit in any way. On the contrary.

The ultimate victims of the September 11 attacks were the people of Afghanistan, the people of Iraq, the people of Palestine, the wretches who have been kidnapped, tortured and killed in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and USrael's other gulags, and the American people, in that order. They are followed by others around the world who have been profiled, spied upon, had their 'assets frozen' (been robbed) and denied their rights in the name of the 'Global War on Terror'.

Even as much of the world faces economic collapse, this "Global War on Terror" has been a huge cash cow for the zionist state. Israel's economy is enjoying an unprecedented boom, as it exports surveillance and population-control equipment, unmanned killer drone aircraft, electric fences, cluster munitions and other anti-human tools, not to mention the swelling demand for its experts on torture and 'urban warfare' (ie invading and occupying civilian-populated cities and towns).

Who benefited? Check.

Motive? Check.

Means? Check.

Opportunity? Check.

unaltered, if you dispute or question any of the specific points or facts listed above, I will be happy to provide further evidence to support them.
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Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:12 am

Amazingly, for someone who wondered who LaRouche was, you echo so much of his crap. Bottom line, everything you "furnish," never rises above being grounded in the astounding belief that little Israel is some kind of Super country with tentacles everywhere which conspire to control world events. This in itself is recognized as a basic antisemitic belief beyond the fact that all it can produce is innuendo and the 6 degrees of seperation I mentioned before. You, like LaRouche merely engage in "counting the Jews," thus relying on the generalized antisemitic distrust of Jews/Israel so prevelant since forever.

But then again, you never miss an opportunity to demonize Israel; another characteristic of LaRouche and his disciples.
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Postby Searcher08 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:01 pm

unaltered wrote:Amazingly, for someone who wondered who LaRouche was, you echo so much of his crap. Bottom line, everything you "furnish," never rises above being grounded in the astounding belief that little Israel is some kind of Super country with tentacles everywhere which conspire to control world events. This in itself is recognized as a basic antisemitic belief beyond the fact that all it can produce is innuendo and the 6 degrees of seperation I mentioned before. You, like LaRouche merely engage in "counting the Jews," thus relying on the generalized antisemitic distrust of Jews/Israel so prevelant since forever.

But then again, you never miss an opportunity to demonize Israel; another characteristic of LaRouche and his disciples.


Given that Israel has several hundred thermonuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT, I would say a basic distrust at the level of the RayGun/ Gorby (trust + verify) of Israel seems quite sensible.

I think one central issue is that there are overlapping networks of traditional politicians and "military-mafia" networks there (as in the US). however the idea of "poor widdle Is-wail" is just a propaganda device used by the like of Christian Zionists and AIPAC to further their respective, overlapping agendas.

My interest is the meta-state actors in the situation, where people who apparently are implacable foes meet together to do business as great friends... in a way that is so nonsensical to the vast majority of people, it just gets "blanked".
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Postby GM Citizen » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:25 pm

unaltered wrote:One of the very first to accuse Israel was LaRouche, the fascist. He was followed quickly by pretty much everyone in the red brown alliances and hordes of rabid antizionists/antiIsrael types with a special attention to every wacky possibility paid special attention to in the Arab press.


I understand that Wikipedia is far from being the most reliable source, however, this article does refer to other, supposedly more reliable sources, such as the NY Times, FBI, CIA, the US Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, and Associated Press. I'm not certain as to whether this LaRouche person runs all of that, or whether LaRouche was the source of this info for all of those organizations. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advan ... dge_debate

Israel
It has been claimed that Israeli espionage agents, and particularly the Mossad, may have had foreknowledge of the attacks.[40][41]

On September, 2001, The New York Times and Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz' reported that four hours after the attack, the FBI arrested five Israelis who had been filming the smoking skyline from the roof of a white van in the parking lot of an apartment building, for "puzzling behavior". They were charged with illegally residing in the United States and working there without permits. The Israelis were said to have been videotaping the disaster with cries of "joy and mockery".[42][43] Police found the van and a search revealed $4,700 in cash hidden, along with foreign passports and a boxcutter which aroused suspicions and led to the detention of the occupants. The men were held in detention for more than 2 months, during which time they were subjected to interrogation and lie detector tests, before being deported back to Israel; one of the men (Paul Kurzberg) refused to take the test for 10 weeks, and then failed it.[44] There has been speculation as to whether the men had advance knowledge of the attacks.

The five men worked at the company Urban Moving Systems, owned and operated by Dominick Suter. After the men were arrested the FBI searched their offices and questioned Suter, however Suter fled to Israel before he could be questioned further. Eventually, Suter's name appeared on the May 2002 FBI Suspect List, along with the Sept. 11 hijackers and other suspected Muslim extremists.[45]

According to a former CIA chief of operations for counterterrorism Vince Cannistraro, there was speculation that Urban Moving Systems may have been a front for an intelligence operation investigating fund-raising networks channeling money to Hamas and Islamic Jihad.[46] On June 21, 2002, ABC reported that the FBI had concluded that the van's driver, Paul Kurzberg, and his brother Sivan, were indeed Mossad operatives.[47] According to an FBI spokesman, the men explained that they were celebrating because "...the United States would now have to commit itself to fighting [Middle East] terrorism, that Americans would have an understanding and empathy for Israel’s circumstances, and that the attacks were ultimately a good thing for Israel."[citation needed]

Christopher Ketchum claimed in Counterpunch:

What is perhaps most damning is that the Israelis’ celebration on the New Jersey waterfront occurred in the first sixteen minutes after the initial crash, when no one was aware this was a terrorist attack.

He sees this is suspicious because at this time major news agencies were yet to realize that the attack was not a catastrophic accident.[40]

In March, 2001, the US Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive had issued a warning about people identifying themselves as "Israeli art students" attempting to bypass security and gain entry to federal buildings, and even to the private residences of senior federal officials.[48][49][50][51] It has been suggested that operatives in this "art student spy ring" were tracking the 9/11 hijackers and knew that the attacks were going to take place, although a Drug Enforcement Agency memo leaked in December 2001, warning military bases to be on the alert for “possible intelligence collection being conducted by Israeli art students”, was primarily concerned with the students' efforts to foil investigations into unrelated Israeli organized crime.[52]

The Associated Press reported that "Israeli intelligence services were aware several months before Sept. 11 that bin Laden was planning a large-scale terror attack" and that this information was passed on to Washington. According to Fox News, In August 2001, Israel warned the US that an al-Qaeda attack is imminent. Reportedly, two high-ranking agents from the Mossad come to Washington and warned the FBI and CIA that up to 200 terrorists have slipped into the US and are planning "a major assault on the United States... [on a] large scale target."[53]
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Postby GM Citizen » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:30 pm

unaltered wrote:Amazingly, for someone who wondered who LaRouche was, you echo so much of his crap. Bottom line, everything you "furnish," never rises above being grounded in the astounding belief that little Israel is some kind of Super country with tentacles everywhere which conspire to control world events. This in itself is recognized as a basic antisemitic belief beyond the fact that all it can produce is innuendo and the 6 degrees of seperation I mentioned before. You, like LaRouche merely engage in "counting the Jews," thus relying on the generalized antisemitic distrust of Jews/Israel so prevelant since forever.

But then again, you never miss an opportunity to demonize Israel; another characteristic of LaRouche and his disciples.


Ok, ok, we get it already. You toss around charges of anti-semitism, and try to shovel all of this under LaRouche, simply because you cannot refute Alice's facts.

You are embarassing yourself.
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Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:31 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
unaltered wrote:Amazingly, for someone who wondered who LaRouche was, you echo so much of his crap. Bottom line, everything you "furnish," never rises above being grounded in the astounding belief that little Israel is some kind of Super country with tentacles everywhere which conspire to control world events. This in itself is recognized as a basic antisemitic belief beyond the fact that all it can produce is innuendo and the 6 degrees of seperation I mentioned before. You, like LaRouche merely engage in "counting the Jews," thus relying on the generalized antisemitic distrust of Jews/Israel so prevelant since forever.

But then again, you never miss an opportunity to demonize Israel; another characteristic of LaRouche and his disciples.


Given that Israel has several hundred thermonuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT, I would say a basic distrust at the level of the RayGun/ Gorby (trust + verify) of Israel seems quite sensible.

I think one central issue is that there are overlapping networks of traditional politicians and "military-mafia" networks there (as in the US). however the idea of "poor widdle Is-wail" is just a propaganda device used by the like of Christian Zionists and AIPAC to further their respective, overlapping agendas.

My interest is the meta-state actors in the situation, where people who apparently are implacable foes meet together to do business as great friends... in a way that is so nonsensical to the vast majority of people, it just gets "blanked".


But the Israel did 9/11 debate has never centred on its possession of nukes but has ALWAYS degenerated into "counting the Jews." Looking at some sort of "meta," thing is perfectly fair game as long as it rises above this kind of nasty bigotry.

I might also suggest that it is dangerous to assume that Christian Zionists and AIPAC members are some gelatinous mass proceeding to some "goal." Odds are that within each grouping there are, like in all organizations, differences of opinions and goals. If one of those overwhelming goals is seeing that Israel continues to exist, I can find nothing wrong with that.
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Postby Searcher08 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:54 pm

unaltered wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:
unaltered wrote:Amazingly, for someone who wondered who LaRouche was, you echo so much of his crap. Bottom line, everything you "furnish," never rises above being grounded in the astounding belief that little Israel is some kind of Super country with tentacles everywhere which conspire to control world events. This in itself is recognized as a basic antisemitic belief beyond the fact that all it can produce is innuendo and the 6 degrees of seperation I mentioned before. You, like LaRouche merely engage in "counting the Jews," thus relying on the generalized antisemitic distrust of Jews/Israel so prevelant since forever.

But then again, you never miss an opportunity to demonize Israel; another characteristic of LaRouche and his disciples.


Given that Israel has several hundred thermonuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT, I would say a basic distrust at the level of the RayGun/ Gorby (trust + verify) of Israel seems quite sensible.

I think one central issue is that there are overlapping networks of traditional politicians and "military-mafia" networks there (as in the US). however the idea of "poor widdle Is-wail" is just a propaganda device used by the like of Christian Zionists and AIPAC to further their respective, overlapping agendas.

My interest is the meta-state actors in the situation, where people who apparently are implacable foes meet together to do business as great friends... in a way that is so nonsensical to the vast majority of people, it just gets "blanked".


But the Israel did 9/11 debate has never centred on its possession of nukes but has ALWAYS degenerated into "counting the Jews." Looking at some sort of "meta," thing is perfectly fair game as long as it rises above this kind of nasty bigotry.

I might also suggest that it is dangerous to assume that Christian Zionists and AIPAC members are some gelatinous mass proceeding to some "goal." Odds are that within each grouping there are, like in all organizations, differences of opinions and goals. If one of those overwhelming goals is seeing that Israel continues to exist, I can find nothing wrong with that.


I am not sure what you mean by "counting the Jews" - do you mean the old canard about none dying at the WTC? I havent seen people talk about that since the list of WTC dead came out (you might be meaning something else). My thesis is that a lot of the people in this "Meta Group" are from a Russian-Ukrainian-Israeli network with deep connections to far right European American establishment group and also strong Turkish / Central Asian connections (e.g. Bin Laden was the worlds largest heroin boss...)

Your comment about the CZ's and AIPAC members being a gelatinous mass is actually how I think of them as one is associated with Sharon and the other with Hagee, both of whom fit that description accurately.

Every organization has diverging nuances and opinions within it, however from what I have seen of AIPAC and the CZ movement, they are both very focused, very rich and very media savvy. In organisational terms, they are both very aligned and purpose driven entities.
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Postby unaltered » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:14 pm

I am not sure what you mean by "counting the Jews"


Counting the Jews is the practice of finding as many Jews you can to link to some theory such as Jews control the world, the Americans, etc. In this case it is about linking every Jew you can to Israel, Mossad, intelligence, the media, related WTC businesses, etc to convince people that the sheer mass of Jews trumps any need to show real proof of anything; any fleeting connection is proof of guilt. It is structurally antisemitism at its finest and goes hand in hand with fascist rhetoric.
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Postby Searcher08 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:28 pm

unaltered wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by "counting the Jews"


Counting the Jews is the practice of finding as many Jews you can to link to some theory such as Jews control the world, the Americans, etc. In this case it is about linking every Jew you can to Israel, Mossad, intelligence, the media, related WTC businesses, etc to convince people that the sheer mass of Jews trumps any need to show real proof of anything; any fleeting connection is proof of guilt. It is structurally antisemitism at its finest and goes hand in hand with fascist rhetoric.


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One thing that I have learned from this board is respect for Jewish people in the US and Israel sticking their neck out for Palestinians.
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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:02 pm

LOL!

AlicetheKurious doesnt think any people of Middle Eastern descent nor Muslims were involved in 9/11? Just Israelis and Neocons, and CIA?
Oh dear Lord.

So no Saudi government, Pakistani Intelligence, or Dubai banking involvement? All of which is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Does Alice even realize that Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Pakistan and the US government work hand in glove together?

Why poo poo the corrupt fundamentalists who control Saudi Arabia, or Egypt for that matter? These are new world order goons, just like China, America, Israel, England, etc.

Someone, please send AlicetheKurious a contextual history of BCCI
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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:09 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
1 There are lots of Jewish people in Hollywood


Aw, but how many in Hollywood FLORIDA, where Unaltered not think it odd Israeli spies were living on the SAME STREET at the SAME TIME as the hijackers in 2001. Israel had guys spying on the hijackers, yet unaltered cant see that, raising the "Jews didnt make it to work" fake meme as the face of questioning Israel.

Searcher08 wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by "counting the Jews" - do you mean the old canard about none dying at the WTC? I havent seen people talk about that since the list of WTC dead came out (you might be meaning something else). My thesis is that a lot of the people in this "Meta Group" are from a Russian-Ukrainian-Israeli network with deep connections to far right European American establishment group and also strong Turkish / Central Asian connections (e.g. Bin Laden was the worlds largest heroin boss...)


Well we know Osama was knee deep in drug trade, most likely through the Turkish/Kosovo(out of Afghanistan and Chechnya) NATO routes.

CIA and NATO were literally using al Qaeda in Bosnia, which is the absolutely backbone to 9/11, dovetailing with the Putin FSB staged terrorism in 1999 that lead to the 1999 and on Chechyn war(which most the hijackers were training for)

We know Mohamed Atta was involved with German national drug smugglers in Florida, most likely linked to protected CIA operations. Just like protected Saudi charities, and CIA linked relief groups were dotting the landscape.

A "meta group" indeed, but many want to say "Osama did it", "Israel did it", "Bush did it". 9/11=Metajob, where the neocons, Jews or a cavedwelling boogeyman is the usual fallguy to most.
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