German TV exposes chemtrails

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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:37 pm

And true.
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Postby nathan28 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:54 pm

You chem-heads are ridiculous. Which scares you more?

1. The possibility of a Shadow Government plot to spray us with toxic clouds, essentially nano-dosing people with compounds in such small quantities it can't matter ("zomgs itz morgellns!"). Notice that this evil plot is limited by time, money, labor and raw materials, and can feasibly be stopped at any moment by human fiat

2. The fact that the atmosphere is super-saturated with garbage that has nothing to do with "zOMG teh Shadow Govtsz!!!11!" and everything to do with our modern energy regime melting ice caps, causing ten year storms to happen every year and killing rainforests?

Image
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:21 pm

The poignant difference between the two belief sets is one of them removes all personal accountability from the issue.

Thank God for Evul Doods.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:59 pm

Those wispy streams of vapor that follow jetliners across the sky may not be as innocuous as they appear.

A new NASA study claims man-made cirrus clouds formed by commercial jet engine exhaust may be responsible for the increased surface temperatures detected in the United States between 1975 and 1994.

Climate data shows there has been a 1 percent per decade increase in cirrus cloud cover over the United States, which the NASA paper says is likely due to commercial air traffic.

Cirrus clouds, whether natural or artificial, play an important climatological role because they trap heat in the atmosphere by reflecting infrared radiation emitted from the Earth's surface.

The study, which appeared in the April 15 issue of the Journal of Climate, estimates that cirrus clouds from jet engine condensation trails, or contrails, increased the temperature of the lower atmosphere by anywhere from 0.36 to 0.54 degrees Fahrenheit per decade. These findings tend to agree with National Weather Service data that shows temperatures at the surface and lower atmosphere rising by almost 0.5 degrees per decade between 1975 and 1994.

Using 25 years of global surface observations of cirrus clouds, temperature and humidity from the National Centers for Environmental Prediction, the researchers confirmed the cirrus trends with 13 years of satellite data from NASA's International Satellite Cloud Climatology Project.

"Both air traffic and cirrus coverage increased during the period of warming, despite no changes in the NCEP humidity at jet-cruise altitudes over the United States," said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia.

By contrast, humidity at flight altitudes decreased over other land areas, such as Asia, and was accompanied by less cirrus coverage, except over Western Europe, where air traffic is very heavy, Minnis said.

The trends in cirrus cover and warming over the United States were greatest during winter and spring, when contrails are most frequent. These results led to the conclusion that contrails caused the increase in cirrus clouds.

Exhaust from aircraft engines is hot and moist, the water vapor in them coming mostly from combustion of hydrogen in the aircraft's fuel. The exhaust takes a moment to cool and mix with the surrounding air, so there is normally a 50- to 100-meter gap behind an aircraft before the contrail appears.

Once formed, contrails are distorted and spread by upper winds. Curtains of ice crystals can sometimes be seen falling from them.

Humidity in the air determines how long contrails remain in the atmosphere. Persistent trails sometimes form large patches of fibrous clouds indistinguishable from natural cirrus, cirrocumulus or cirrostratus clouds, according to Malcolm Walker, of England's Royal Meteorological Society.

Contrails that persist for an extended period of time are most likely to affect the climate. Minnis has estimated that a contrail that begins as a thin gossamer line across the sky can spread to cover more than 20,000 square kilometers in just a few hours.

Not everyone was immediately convinced by Minnis' contrail conclusions.

"The idea that the Earth is warming and high cloudiness is increasing and therefore part of the warming is due to increasing high cloudiness is not logically valid, if one is considering observations only," said Andy Detwiler, a professor of atmospheric sciences at South Dakota School of Mines and Technology.

Correlation does not equate to causation, he said.

"So many processes affect the temperature of the Earth that contrails could easily be acting to cool the Earth, and yet the overall temperature trend could be increasing," Detwiler said.

Still, this is not the first study to connect contrails to the issue of global warming. In 1999, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change estimated that contrails from the world fleet of 12,000 civilian jetliners contribute as much to global warming as the carbon dioxide their engines emit burning jet fuel.


http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... 4/05/63365
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:05 pm

nathan28 wrote:2. The fact that the atmosphere is super-saturated with garbage that has nothing to do with "zOMG teh Shadow Govtsz!!!11!" and everything to do with our modern energy regime melting ice caps, causing ten year storms to happen every year and killing rainforests?


Definitely that one.
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Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:11 pm

But.... Wot iz Chemtrails?


*runs away giggling*
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Postby nathan28 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:15 pm

Chemtrailz wuz fond on Mars! zOMG teh Alterantive 3ss!!!11!!1!

NASA lander may have found toxic substance on Mars

By Dan Whitcomb Mon Aug 4, 10:08 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Phoenix Mars Lander may have detected perchlorate, a potentially toxic substance used in rocket fuel, in soil samples taken from the Red Planet, NASA scientists said on Monday.


Full Story
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Postby Seamus OBlimey » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:37 pm

AhabsOtherLeg wrote:But.... Wot iz Chemtrails?


*runs away giggling*


Don't get me started, this is supposed to be a serious post. I have to word it very carefully to avoid causing offence or giving the wrong impression.

I should thank Arcadia, or et as he's refered to on this thread, for doing all our homework for us. Much appreciated.

But given that:

Using 25 years of global surface observations of cirrus clouds, temperature and humidity from the National Centers for Environmental Prediction, the researchers confirmed the cirrus trends with 13 years of satellite data from NASA's International Satellite Cloud Climatology Project.

Both air traffic and cirrus coverage increased during the period of warming, despite no changes in the NCEP humidity at jet-cruise altitudes over the United States," said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia.


Doesn't it follow that localised cirrus production can cause localised cooling by blocking sunlight? And with "25 years of global surface observations of cirrus clouds" who wouldn't have thought of that?

My own observations have convinced me that almost every time I hear rain forecast I will see planes, not always trails, not always rain but it looks like they're trying. Over the course of this thread I've watched enough permutations of their behaviour to conclude it's not an exact science. Though it did work today. Pink trails at sunset last night, white ones at dawn, overcast by ten and rain since noon. And given that we, or they, are dealing with things we, or they, don't fully control or even understand do we, or they, comprehend the consequence?
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:59 pm

Seamus OBlimey wrote:Pink trails at sunset last night


You're north of me some ways if I'm not mistaken. You are enjoying the gift of the Saharan Dessert's red dust clouds picked up from sand storms and sent aloft over the Atlantic to American skies. They make for the deep, gorgeous red sunsets that set your heart alight.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:14 pm

Seamus OBlimey wrote:Doesn't it follow that localised cirrus production can cause localised cooling by blocking sunlight? And with "25 years of global surface observations of cirrus clouds" who wouldn't have thought of that?


It cuts both ways; that's one of the reasons so many people have difficulties grasping it.

It blocks visible sunlight, yes(but NOT U.V!!), but by the same token it also blocks infra red heat from radiation off the planet's surface at night.

This is why when I saw a huge belters being laid out several times in nocturnal hours knew that warming mitigation was off the menu. It broke my spell as a 'chemmie'. That and a considerable amount of reading scientific journals and publications.

Look up Ramamathan when you get a chance. There's a paper he wrote almost 30 years ago calling for using planes as a mitigation instrument. Edward teller's famous 'Solar Sunscreen' was almost entirely composed of the earlier paper(by the better Scientist, I might add). I don't consider Ramanathan a Lovelock by any strecth of the imagination.

Check his work on the Asian Brown Cloud.

The what, you say?

Better learn about that one.

Its fucking nasty.
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Re:

Postby Joao » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:47 pm

massen [with formatting liberties by Joao] » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:32 am wrote:Thought people might be amused / interested in this comment on today's BBC magazine article about possible tech for reflecting solar rays to combat global warming.
Is this news? Governments all around the world have already been permitting reflective chaff to be sprayed into the atmosphere for over ten years now. They were presumably informed that the spraying of heavy metals into the atmosphere, although creating a significant health risk, would great an "albedo" (whiteness) around the globe, reflecting a sufficient percentage of the sun's rays back into outer space to reduce "global warming". This operation (involving hundreds of small, silver, unmarked tanker-aircraft) can be witnessed by anyone in the UK (even those in far-out Wales and Scotland) should they care to look at their increasingly spray-obscured skies from time to time. In my experience it is clearly visible twice a week on average.

Reuters: Scientists dim sunlight, suck up carbon dioxide to cool planet
July 25, 2017 / 11:07 PM
Environment Correspondent Alister Doyle


Among new university research, a Harvard geo-engineering project into dimming sunlight to cool the planet set up in 2016 has raised $7.5 million from private donors. It plans a first outdoor experiment in 2018 above Arizona.

"If you want to be confident to get to 1.5 degrees you need to have solar geo-engineering," said David Keith, of Harvard.

Keith's team aims to release about 1 kilo (2.2 lbs) of sun dimming material, perhaps calcium carbonate, from a high-altitude balloon above Arizona next year in a tiny experiment to see how it affects the microphysics of the stratosphere.

"I don't think it's science fiction ... to me it's normal atmospheric science," he said.

Edit: Damn, was proud of myself for digging up this 2008 thread but neglected to search more specifically. "David Keith, of Harvard" and his albedo-dimming efforts have, of course, already been mentioned on the board:

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