German TV exposes chemtrails

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Postby mentalgongfu2 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:17 pm

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on edit: For what it's worth, I took all the above pics myself. The first five are part of a series of pics taken over an hour's time one "partially cloudy" morning. Whether it's jet fuel or something else, it certainly qualifies as air pollution, and it is not irrelevant.
Last edited by mentalgongfu2 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:23 pm

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Postby mentalgongfu2 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:26 pm

hey et, why don't you fuck right out of this thread since all you want to do is detract
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:29 pm

I've made my point and I'll do so willingly, but definitely not because you asked me to.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:02 am

Whether it's jet fuel or something else, it certainly qualifies as air pollution, and it is not irrelevant.


I agree its not irrelevent, but ... I don't even like talking about chemtrails any more. Whats the point???

One question tho, what is the moisture condensing onto, so it can form "persistant" contrails, or chemtrails or whatever you call them?

Thats something that you have to understand before you can get to grips with the whole thing, (if its worth it.)
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Postby mentalgongfu2 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:23 am

On what basis should I believe the effect is caused by condensing moisture? That's more to the heart of the question.

It's not like I haven't spent time on this myself, since people seem to be trotting out their respective authoritay in this thread.

I've not yet found a a reasonable and consistent explanation for the phenomena I've seen with my own eyes. All I've found is dismissals and denials, firm and sound, but lacking any substance whatsoever.


And since you asked, the point of talking about chemtrails is the point of talking about anything - to communicate, connect, and perhaps learn from each other, or at least exercise that thing inside our skull, between the ears and behind the mouth. The subject came up, so I'm talking about it. I'm quite frustrated with people telling me what I should or shouldn't think or talk (type) about.

(edited for punctuation)
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Re: seeing is believing

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:36 am

Fat Lady Singing wrote:Then earlier this year, I witnessed the complete gridding and clouding of the sky. Flight paths do not form perfect 90 degree squares from horizon to horizon, and typical contrails do not spread and combine to create cloud cover, with the clouds occasionally bleeding down very low, looking almost like incipient tornadoes. At least, not in my experience.

My husband and I were on our way to do our grocery shopping when I happened to look up and notice this grid over about half the sky and several jets finishing up the job. Within about 15 minutes, they'd created the complete grid. Even my husband, who doesn't give a hoot about matters RI, thought it was pretty obviously not what normally happens.

There really wasn't much misinterpreting what I saw. There wasn't any inkblot effect. To me, it was almost a paranormal experience -- I'd just seen something that had only been lore, to me. I felt like I'd seen a UFO, but at the same time, I felt unsurprised. Like, 'duh, of course it's a real phenomena! Why did I have any doubts?' And the blatancy of this huge demonstration going on above us, most of our city's residents completely unobservant, just seemed like a giant wispy middle finger from the government.

I witnessed a real thing happening in the sky, unfolding in front of me. That much I can unequivocally state. What I can't say is why it happened. I have no idea if there were odd chemicals or fibers in the air. I don't know why anyone (assuming it's the gubmint or military) would want to create this grid. I have guesses, but that's it.



Same experience here. I'm hardly into any of this 'chemtrail' investigation, but over a period of weeks last year, I looked up one afternoon and there they were. Completely covering the sky. A grid of 10-15 lines and maybe 7-8 90 degree cross lines. All in a matter of a half an hour's time. I actually got my camera out and took a few photos. I pointed it out to a friend, and for the next few weeks we noticed all this going on in silence right below a metro area where no one even noticed. Hell, it could have been going on for much longer, but that was the first time I noticed it.

These grid forms are not like normal air traffic paths/condensation. I have no idea what to make of them, but have not bothered to try and find out either.

Just thought I'd chime in as a person who thinks they saw what is referred to as 'chemtrails'.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:57 am

mentalgongfu2 wrote:On what basis should I believe the effect is caused by condensing moisture? That's more to the heart of the question.


On the basis of observation for Gruds sake... I have seen plenty of "chemtrails", seen aerial spraying of ferts pesticides, seen footage of aerial spraying of defoiliants from the Columbian Equadorian border, fuel dumps and some genuinely weird shit coming out the back of planes (eg chemtrails that form that waveform pattern straight away, then pulse to different waveforms, holes in clouds, square holes in clouds that formed before my eyes on more than one occasion etc etc).

What people call chemtrails are more like atmospheric moisture condensed than anything else I have seen.

And I have to say that most of whats called chemtrails appears to be a natural phenomonen based on (super) saturation of aerosols in the atmosphere. Thats my opinion, you can knock yourself out doing whatever you want to as far as trying to figure out whats going on. I am sure there is all sorts of other stuff too. Like the cloud seeding programs announced for just north west of here a coule of years ago. Like who knows what else too. But most of whats called chemtrails appears to be exactly what the mainstream says it is.

However like many "chemtrail debunkers" if you don't understand cloud formation then you don't really have anything valid to say on this. Even that legend in his own underpants Dumbcunt Cuntz (who's not that bad really, just a serial rationalist, unlike some of his contemporaries who are scum) wouldn't address that issue, years ago.

Fuck man I even found a reference to aerial spraying in the mahabrat or some other ancient Indian text once.

It ("Chemtrails") is an energy sink, has its own egregore that spins bizarrities like the vedic reference, and I would really recommend you don't get lost in it. But its your life, do what you want.
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Re: seeing is believing

Postby monster » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:58 am

2012 Countdown wrote:Just thought I'd chime in as a person who thinks they saw what is referred to as 'chemtrails'.


Me too - I have absolutely no opinion of what they are, but I notice them, and they suck. Even if their worst consequence is only aesthetic, ruining what should be gorgeous clear sky, that is enough reason for me to hate them. Because they've ruined a lot of days.

Recently I was golfing with my family and the contrails happened to be ridiculous - just the heaviest I've ever seen - and I pointed them out to my brother, who is not conspiracy-oriented in any way, and even he had to admit that whatever these things are, they suck.

I'd point one out being laid down as we teed off, and a few holes later I'd point out the same trail, that had spread into a haze, and I saw the lightbulb go off as he realized that none of the haze in the sky that day was natural.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:31 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Fuck man I even found a reference to aerial spraying in the mahabrat or some other ancient Indian text once.


Thinking about it, it was actually a reference to what sounded like plasma shielding for aircraft. I just spent a while looking for it and can't find it.

As far as those grids go, there were a few occasions in the early naughties where I saw grids formed, and they were outside normal aircraft flight paths, further west by up to 100 kms. They were rare tho, and I have seen what people call grids on normal flight paths, they never match those original grids, and the planes that leave them are following normal flight paths and look like airlines (ie they looks like they have the markings for the planes/airlines that use those paths, Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin Blue.)
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Postby justdrew » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:24 am

High-altitude jet will track Asian dust plumes - 20 April 2007
A new long-range, high-altitude jet will track and analyse giant plumes of dust and pollution from Asia as they journey across the Pacific Ocean.

The aircraft is due to take off on its first mission next week carrying researchers who will monitor the plumes, which affect cloud formation and are thought to influence climate change.

The research jet, a Gulfstream-V, will be able to fly to heights over 50,000 feet, far higher than commercial jets typically fly. Instruments on its exterior will monitor plume movement and cloud formation and will also capture dust, pollutants and cloud particles for further study.
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Re: seeing is believing

Postby orz » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:41 am

monster wrote:lightbulb go off as he realized that none of the haze in the sky that day was natural.

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion ... ud_factory
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Postby Trifecta » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:42 am

I wrote this five years ago. The only bit I would change is my involvement with the orgone crowd, but only the "thought leaders" of that crowd ... another mind fuck.

By Mark Davey <mark@suckingeggs.com>
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/ctstenpr ... un03.shtml
June 9, 2003

What is blocking chemtrail activism and mass public/political debate which would lead to action and solutions? Well, for starters, all of so-called officialdom flatly denies that they exist, but the evidence is so overwhelming, that anyone can conclusively prove it to themselves or to others, at least to those who are willing to open their eyes and look. This presentation is a review of the problems that I encountered in discovering the reality of chemtrails and what could be done about them.

Trevor James Constable is a leading light in weather manipulation and follows in the footsteps Wilhelm Reich in etheric technologies. All living things have an etheric field, a luminescent energy around their bodies, including you. Here is how to prove it. Put your hand up against a dark background and after a few seconds you will see a faint white shadow round the tips of your fingers. Next look at a group of trees and you will see the same type of shadow against the skies background. Unbelievably, you can use this energy to make clouds disappear. Choose a small cloud first, start scanning it with your eyes from left to right, and up and down, focus on breaking the cloud up with your mind. It will seem to disappear as you focus, re adjust your eyes and keep the process up. WOW, you have just made your first cloud disappear. Show all your friends your new magical powers. This is etheric FREE energy...more later. This will work on all clouds except chemtrails. Thus, Proving chemtrails exist. No conspiracy that they exist.

Ten Problems with Discovering Chemtrails

Problem 1
You wake up one day and notice streams of lines formed by jets high up in the atmosphere. You wake up the next day and once again, the ubiquitous lines are there. You notice crosses, grids and bends. You think to yourself that is not normal. Then you notice day after day that the sky is always a whiteout (unless cumulus clouds are present), yet when you woke at six in the morning you had a blue sky as you have been accustomed to all your life. By the time, you arrive at work the sun is hidden by what you could only describe as a fuzzy haze. Perhaps you ask some friends have they noticed anything odd and they usually look at you blankly. Therefore, you go to the internet and after a while discover the term chemtrails. From that moment on your life changes.

Problem 2
The name CHEMTRAILS, coined by Will Thomas, is a starting point. Ha ha you think, I have discovered what is happening. You start to investigate, and your stomach hits the floor, you cannot believe your eyes. White NATO jets are deliberately spraying chemicals such as barium and aluminium into the sky. Why? You ask yourself. Again, why would our politicians condone such madness? Your stomach hits the floor again as you discover the effect of the toxins on all planet life. You start to ask your friends: "do you know what those white lines are in the sky?" "Yeah, they're jet trails." Some may even tell you they are contrails, but you instantly start to tell them: "Well actually, they are chemtrails, as contrails dissipate after a few seconds." You are then asked to explain what 'chemtrails' are. You soon discover that your friends and family turn off and ignore what you are saying as they mutter: "have you been on Prozac?"

At this point, most people give up and think to themselves, "yeah its just normal air traffic" and go back to being sheeple, although always at the back of their mind they know something is wrong.

Some, however, decide to carry out more research.

Problem 3
Knowing that you are not on any prescribed or illicit drugs, you pursue your research and you discover other sites and groups of people who have seen and heard about chemtrails. You pluck up the courage to ask questions about your new subject and then it starts to get really complicated, no one can tell you exactly why chemtrails are being sprayed, a multitude of theories start to come into your new world view. "Its to save the planet" some say, "it's mind control" shout others, "its a silly old conspiracy" "it's a mass population cull" "its about the control of water" or "it's aliens" etc.

If you try to explain to family and friends, they'll tell you that it's becoming an obsession and there are many more things in life that are more important than chemtrails. You go back to the sheeple with a fuddled mind. Really intrepid explorers continue and start to take a more direct approach.

Problem 4
You start to ask questions of those who you think would be knowledgeable: "sorry it is not part of our current activism" (Greenpeace); "we are looking at it" (The Green Party); "What are you, a mad man?" (the media). Moreover, you hit those who know the term, but do not want to know: "it's a conspiracy; go back to work" Baaaa.

Problem 5
Debunkers: By the tone of your enquires and your genuine interest to find the underlying cause of the problem, you start to send out vibes which are intercepted by the professionals. A pilot may take you under his wing and explain it is just a conspiracy: "I have been flying for twenty years and it is just down to the amount of air traffic these day old buddy" or " Nah! It is just plain old contrails, nothing to worry about " You, thinking that it cannot be that simple. start to hit these people with some facts: " But Will Thomas and Jeff Rense say this and that (etc.)" Then you hit the professional debunker mode as you progress with your information: " Rense, Thomas, don't be a fool. They are just playing on your naivety." ( this is classic projection seen with debunkers like Jay Reynolds, resident debunker at www.chemtrailcentral.com and alleged agent http://worldzone.net/science/reality2u30/threats.html et. al.) they want to sell you books and videos. Once you have made contact with a professional debunker and you overcome the flight explorer scenario, look at these pictures from 1945, this professional said this, look at this scientific report. Jay Reynolds is also disputing Will Thomas on barium and aluminium tests found in chemtrails. Remember your etheric vision does not work on chemicals.

Break 1
At this point your get a break. Someone leaks some new information: an insider blows the whistle on the whole chemtrail project. You discover the term geoengineering. You hope that with this new scientific term and information you can retrace your steps, go back to the media, organise political action, get something done. Your family and friends will forgive you for your obsession, you were right all along. You were the smart one. They should have listened (momentarily forgetting about the debunkers and how hard it is to prove leaked information, without an actual contact name and address). The big guns are rolled out. Will Thomas debunks the whole article, and you sink down into depression and wonder if 2 billion are actually going to die. And piece by piece, the story is rubbished. Your hero steps in and he debunks the story.

You have already put the information out there expecting mass action to stop the madness. Now association rubbishes you. At this point, you should really give up and join the herd.

Problem 6
Other serious researchers and thinkers start to help you, they have seen the debunker attacks coming for miles they know that some very sincere people just give up under the torrent of debunker abuse. They point you to some sound evidence and to Congressman Dennis Kucinich and Bill HR 2977. There it is in black and white chemtrails next to some very exotic weapons and the Star (t) Wars ( my (t) for reality check) programme. Only to discover that in the amended bill all terms relating to exotic weaponry have been removed- including chemtrails. At this point, you understand that government do not want you to know what they are up to and will not let it out to the public.

Problem 7
Having realised that you cannot find a political solution to the problem, you wonder what direct action you can take? Suddenly a new doorway opens up; your research has led you to a pseudo scientist called Don Croft. A man who has adapted a device from an invention called a cloud buster (Wilhelm Reich) and is using it to destroy chemtrails. Although highly sceptical, you start to look at the information and your first instincts are what a load of rubbish, this person has cobbled together some copper tubes, a bucket, some resin, a few crystals and metal shavings from machine shop floors and calls it a chembuster. The whole contraption can be put together for less that £30.00 pounds. Your brain catches hold of the beauty of the idea and you inwardly laugh at a cheap device that could beat a billion dollar operation. Alas, you discover that Mr Croft and his wife are using similar so-called orgone technologies to thwart mind control created by microwave, HAARP, and GWEN (2, 3 ) towers. They are also using physics and are being helped by so-called friendly alien entities; they have graphic adventures, which could only be described as science fiction. You file it into the 'nutty professor bin' and move on. How ludicrous!

Problem 8
Once you move into the star (t) wars arena you come face to face with political lies and deceit. You learn about black projects, mind control, secret governments, Illuminati, UFO's and real aliens. Then you discover links from the last 50 years. Nazi scientist given new identities, the Bush family connections with Hitler, you can trace the family genealogy all the way back to Edward the 1st. How Betchtel is a company we should all have deep concerns about. Why did they never actual capture Hitler, Osama, Saddam, and you find out that the Bush CIA connections and all the above assets are intrinsically linked. Even the JFK Assignation is linked to the Bush junta etc. You start to think you have lived in a major conspiracy all your life and that somehow it all forms a unified theory of everything.

This hurdle, to the sensible activist, is something you know you cannot overcome. After all, you are just a mere mortal and do not have the budget and resources to compete with monolithic Corp/Gov/Media and now you are in the area of dark evil stuff. Even with your newfound etheric energy, the voice inside your head (and fear) is cautioning you to run away.

Problem 9
One day, you spot out of the corner of your eye something sparkling just at the edge of a ubiquitous chemtrail. As you brain adapts to what you are seeing, it disappears. Two days later, you see the same thing. Nevertheless, this time you recognise it as some kind of glowing silver orb about the size of a basketball, you watch it for a few seconds and it suddenly disappears. Then a week later, another silver orb appears in and amongst chemtrails. This time you notice that it is moving up and down and from side to side, you watch it for ten minutes and then it just literally disappears once again. You rush home to tell your wife, but your wife no longer listens to you. You are identified as a freak and you only have your digital family left. Common sense would tell you to stop what you are doing and run like hell.

Problem 10
You are now classified as a conspiracy theorist , but have discovered that "conspiracy", in this case, is just another word for the "truth". Now, the doors of perception spring open. You discover that we are not ALONE and you become a target after a few months. First, it is your phone that starts acting funny; then you discover that your e-mails are being intercepted; at certain times of the night you are sweating, twisting and turning; your dreamscape becomes even more absurd; you wake feeling burnt and disorientated. You now understand what microwave ELF energy really is. Your ears start ringing, you pick up strange frequencies.

You are now being attacked and you doubt your own sanity. Where do you go from here? After a few days, you realise that your perceptions are correct: this whole thing is wrong and you are damn well going to find the underlying cause of it, even though you know it is going to kill you or you are going to get locked up under some trumped-up charge or some psychological problems.

You spend a few weeks just on research you look at what geoengineering really is and what mad solutions to the problem are being tabled. The thing to look at is not so much the crazy proposals which are definitely being used in the chemtrail conundrum, but who is proposing the Geoengineers. They are invariably scientists from biotech industries (with a mountain of funding) from the usual corporate suspects (Exxon et. al.). So, your natural question would be: Why aren't the earth scientists involved? Why are we not looking at algae growth as opposed to pouring tons of iron into the oceans? Why is there no debate on this problem and why do we have to accept what the (nutty) mechanistic scientists are doing to our planet?

Break 2
Nutty Scientists! At this point and with a mass of crazy information, you need to take stock. You decide to lock yourself away and think. You choose the Descartes route and question your whole chemtrail research. Nutty scientists, secret governments...NWO!

An old friendly voice in your head goes off. “USE THE FORCE LUKE”

Don Croft, the nutty guy who had invented a chembuster based on orgone. You decide to read and study Wilhelm Reich and his experiments with orgone in his book Ether, God and the Devil. You had already read his book on the psychology of fascism, and were most impressed, and could see the parallels with today's fascistic and racist world. After all, how more fascist can you get than chemtrails and mind control? You then read Trevor James Constables book The Cosmic Pulse of Life and John Keel's book Operation Trojan Horse. All things start pointing to a unified theory based on orgone (chi, or etheric energy). Thankfully, you were able to test out empirically some of the ether energy stuff that Constable had suggested to the point of being able to break up clouds with your own eyes. You went back, re-examined Don Croft's work, and it all started to make sense.

The NWO, secret government, and fascist policies had chosen geoengineering over climate engineering proposed by earth scientists to negate the problems of CO2 emissions for fat profits of the self-chosen elite, thus protecting the status quo of big business and the Illuminati. This has been sold to the spider flyers (chemtrail pilots) as ' you are doing your world a great service' (pandering to gung-ho ego's). A solution has also been sold to congress that allows them to continue as normal and negates the need to solve the real cause of global problems: namely, the need for social engineering and a switch to cleaner energy sources, particularly FREE energy, which they have denied for years. They must protect this lie and the status quo, even though the outcome of geoengineering will no doubt create a situation that we will not be able to control. Secrecy has to be kept to a maximum under national security clauses. Whistle blowers could face the death penalty for not spilling the geoengineered beans; they are doing the planet a great service, under the false believe system perpetrated by the secret government. They are trying to protect the original lie to justify this nutty science.

For years we have been told chemtrails do not exist. That free energy is nonsense and that aliens are just another crackpot's warped imagination to stop you from believing that we are the only intelligence in the known universe. We are told that the secret government and Illuminati are just conspiracies and so on.

Perhaps the real conspiracy is that the Crofts have discovered the answer to chemtrails, mind control, and are pushing back the dark forces to save humanity from the straight jacket of conspiracy . Perhaps they are being helped by divine and extraterrestial intervention. And as we are now being asked to accept the idea of two billion plus deaths or green skies for the rest of our existence? Perhaps we should look harder for the real conspiracy instead of the everyday, controlled pseudo-reality being dished out to us

Etherically yours,

Mark Davey
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:44 am

Great read trifecta. I can relate to a bit of that, tho not that well to Don Croft. His sister or something used to post here, but we won't go there will we.

I actually think there is alot in the whole Organite movement thats worth following up on, tho for different reasons than what those intrepid anti reptillian warriors do... But saying that sort of thing is a bit lead balloonish here.

I also have some serious issues with Don Croft's practices, and those of some orgonite warriors that are doing the same thing. Very similar to what James Demeo was whinging about re that mob.

Also, as far as chembusters go, I got similar results round here by doing Chi exercises of various sorts.

Looking back that kind of reinforces in my mind, that the majority are a man made, tho not a malicious thing. IE Its mostly ordinary pollution inducing condensation, and usually over areas where the atmosphere is saturated with crap and at or near a local tipping point.

I think its interesting that the chembusters; and the Tai Chi/Chi Kung and visualisation, and a couple of other things I was doing; seem to do the same thing. Its that intersection of art, magic and the environment, the planet itself, and a personal mythology (in the sense that myths carry meaning, not that they are "falsehoods" or childish ideas) - both have these elements and both do something, tho I dunno how much of it is as DC says it is. To be honest I think they stumbled onto something they don't fully get, and Chi or Orgone is a part of it, but only a part, its like the clay a potter moulds on a wheel.

BTW Some of us are a bit superstitous, if you mention the JR Demon too many times odds are you'll invoke the scumbag. Tho he's already been banned here once I think.
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Re: seeing is believing

Postby Fat Lady Singing » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:44 am

monster wrote:
2012 Countdown wrote:Just thought I'd chime in as a person who thinks they saw what is referred to as 'chemtrails'.


Me too - I have absolutely no opinion of what they are, but I notice them, and they suck. Even if their worst consequence is only aesthetic, ruining what should be gorgeous clear sky, that is enough reason for me to hate them. Because they've ruined a lot of days.


Hi monster & 2012 Countdown: Thanks for your observations, and for your balanced reactions. I don't see any need to go getting all in a lather about a little inquiry, so I appreciate your reasonable comments.

In my case, I counted the number of *perfect* squares (again, have to emphasize that this wasn't normal flight path activity), and my memory's pretty bad, but my husband concurs that there were 12 or 14 that were clear and distinct. Before the planes were done (again, have to emphasize that I saw the planes creating the grid) with the entire sky, the first squares had started to bleed together and so were less distinct but still obviously squares.

I can't say that I've noticed such odd activity in the sky since, but neither have I been looking for it.

Like most topics covered on RI, I reserve judgment until I know more, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find something parapolitical behind all the reports.

If pressed to *guess*, I would say that it's weather control experimentation. I live in Columbus, OH, and Wright-Patterson isn't too far away. It doesn't take too great a stretch to imagine the possibility of a program run out of Wright-Patt that could be conducted over Columbus. I have no idea if cities closer to Wright-Patt, like, obviously, Dayton, experience sky-gridding or not.

It's also not too great a stretch to imagine the perceived necessity of developing a reliable form of weather control to stave off either global warming (they've talked openly about the possibility of releasing mirrored particulates to try to bounce some of the sun's rays back into space) or droughts. I could see such tech used as a weapon, too, and the fact that an entire city could be gridded over virtually unnoticed could be valuable information.

Then, too, I remember reading an article by my favorite local firebrand, Bob Fitrakis, editor of The Free Press and usually a candidate for *something* in local elections. You may recognize the name if you followed the 2004 election debacle, since he did most of the legwork for information that later turned up in Conyer's report. *Any*way, he usually sticks to straight muckraking political reporting, but he did work on 'chemtrails,' too.

Here's a link with some of his articles: http://tinyurl.com/47uyw

(I know nothing about this web page, just googled Fitrakis and Wight-Patterson and this seemed like a good place to start).

I'd only read one of his articles on the subject before this morning, so I didn't realize that Kucinich, something of a hero to me, was also interested in the subject... hm...
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