"what is money, how did it originate"

[Joe Hillshoist]

I haven't got round to reading it yet and bph is putting me off it.

Money is a weird thing, and I might think about it, write my own opinions and then compare the book.

Le gran conspiracy doesn't exist, cept as a meta thing where power is concentrated.

If thats what he refers to as "the Babylonian Woe" - the creation of international currency as we know it.

Its one of things, for sure it exists as a power structure, one that seems to mirror city based civilisations and correlate with them.

However to attribute this state of affairs to one group seems a bit foolish, cept as a loosly knit thing known as "super rich" or "ruling class", which is kind of open to anyone who is smart and brutal enough to get their way in there.

I dunno when I'm gonna get a chance to read it soon either, cos my life has just had of those full too much stuff going on phases start up, again. It took a bloody flood to give me a break.

[IanEye]

I haven't got round to reading it yet and bph is putting me off it.

-

I dunno when I'm gonna get a chance to read it soon either, cos my life has just had of those full too much stuff going on phases start up, again. It took a bloody flood to give me a break.

Don't worry about it, Joe, really.

i started this thread back in 2008 when the economy was crashing, and vigilant took the fact that the stock market plunged -777 points in one day with great significance. it resonated with me as well back then, and i thought he might get something out of Astle's The Babylonian Woe.

but to be honest i was always more fascinated by the 'legend of yamaguchy' than any one book on that site.

now i see this thread as having greater value as an inversion of vanlose kid's "Left/Libertarianism" thread.

that is, when one might want to go off topic over there with a pondering on how ideas from the Left have been co-opted by the Right, they could instead post it here.

what is so funny to me is how much i was into researching all of this stuff at this point in W's first term, and now at this point in the Obama Administration it is all coming up again through the lens of Glenn Beck.

i am glad i checked it out then, regardless of what i have taken away from it.

[brainpanhandler]

bph is putting me off it.

I'd suggest when you have the time just reading the intro and then the chapter titled, SPARTA, THE PELANORS, WEALTH, AND WOMEN. You'll get most of what he intends to communicate out of that.

However to attribute this state of affairs to one group seems a bit foolish, cept as a loosly knit thing known as "super rich" or "ruling class",

He refers to them as the International Bullion Brokers and characterizes them as this shadowy cabal that has been the power behind the power of just about every government since the dawn of civilization. The dearth of direct evidence for the existence of this multi-multigenerational conspiracy to enslave mankind through the manipulation of fiat currency and fractional reserve banking is explained by the premise that "they" have kept this conspiracy a super-duper secret through the millenia. Fine. But that means that Astle has to liberally infer the existence of these all powerful bankers based on what little historical evidence exists for the way economies really worked in antiquity.

I mean, it's a fine question: How did this whole thing get started? And it's not an easy question to answer, obviously. I don't think the answer is probably a whole lot different than the one Astle posits, minus the unbroken line of conspirators going all the way back into antiquity and the dawn of written history and minus the patriarchal, misogynistic, christian/theistic slant.

I mean fractional reserve banking is a fucking crime against humanity, perhaps the crime against humanity and it is the yoke around our collective necks. No doubt about it. And it stands to reason that somewhere in antiquity someone figured out that they could lend out more than they actually had in reserves in some form of fiat currency and thereby create an obscene profit out of thin air. They're fucking vampires. It also stands to reason that such banking operations would seek to keep their methods a secret.

Astle's solution is a benevolent god-king that issues the people's money in strict accord with christian moral codes. The only power he believes that can successfully oppose the money priests is the sword arm of a powerful, autocratic, patriarchal and yet benevolent ruler; a benevolent ruler that will reimpose the "natural order of things", which apparently includes subordinate women, among other things. Sham democracies in his opinion were created by the bankers in order to divide the people and prevent them from mounting any sort of opposition as well as to end the reign of kings who might get it in their heads to usurp their power with force of arms.

What is more interesting is the actual historical research he did. There is some value in it, but I just don't have the time or energy to devote to sussing out his sources and chasing down his extensive bibliography.

but to be honest i was always more fascinated by the 'legend of yamaguchy' than any one book on that site.

In digging around for anything on Astle I ran across alot of references to yamaguchy and it was an effort to stay on task and not get too sidetracked. I already had 14 windows open as it was.

pondering on how ideas from the Left have been co-opted by the Right...the lens of Glenn Beck

I guess that pendulum swings back and forth. Astle would no doubt attribute this entanglement to the design of the bankers behind the scenes seeking to keep us all divided.

I just wade the tides that turned - 'til I learn to leave the past behind

btw, Sea Change is one of those albums that I play only infrequently so as not to "wear it out", I love it that much. Is Beck still into scientology?

[vanlose kid]

...

I mean fractional reserve banking is a fucking crime against humanity, perhaps the crime against humanity and it is the yoke around our collective necks. No doubt about it. And it stands to reason that somewhere in antiquity someone figured out that they could lend out more than they actually had in reserves in some form of fiat currency and thereby create an obscene profit out of thin air. They're fucking vampires. It also stands to reason that such banking operations would seek to keep their methods a secret.

Astle's solution is a benevolent god-king that issues the people's money in strict accord with christian moral codes. The only power he believes that can successfully oppose the money priests is the sword arm of a powerful, autocratic, patriarchal and yet benevolent ruler; a benevolent ruler that will reimpose the "natural order of things", which apparently includes subordinate women, among other things. Sham democracies in his opinion were created by the bankers in order to divide the people and prevent them from mounting any sort of opposition as well as to end the reign of kings who might get it in their heads to usurp their power with force of arms.

...

cast a different light on the romantic myth of the vampire, doesn't it?

and then there's the "curious" fact of the sick myth's resuscitation and propagation in these times. – the vampire: all powerful, ever-living off the life blood of "mere mortals". an empire ruled by the dead feeding off the living...

some find this enormously "sexy".

*

[hanshan]

...

brainpanhandler:

I mean, it's a fine question: How did this whole thing get started? And it's not an easy question to answer, obviously. I don't think the answer is probably a whole lot different than the one Astle posits, minus the unbroken line of conspirators going all the way back into antiquity and the dawn of written history and minus the patriarchal, misogynistic, christian/theistic slant.

I mean fractional reserve banking is a fucking crime against humanity, perhaps the crime against humanity and it is the yoke around our collective necks. No doubt about it. And it stands to reason that somewhere in antiquity someone figured out that they could lend out more than they actually had in reserves in some form of fiat currency and thereby create an obscene profit out of thin air. They're fucking vampires. It also stands to reason that such banking operations would seek to keep their methods a secret.

There is some anecdotal evidence that fractional reserve banking (fiat currency)
got it's start during the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt. However,
the leads are esoteric & may be apocryphal. It's clear the monetary
system needs a major overhaul.



...

[vanlose kid]

...

brainpanhandler:

I mean, it's a fine question: How did this whole thing get started? And it's not an easy question to answer, obviously. I don't think the answer is probably a whole lot different than the one Astle posits, minus the unbroken line of conspirators going all the way back into antiquity and the dawn of written history and minus the patriarchal, misogynistic, christian/theistic slant.

I mean fractional reserve banking is a fucking crime against humanity, perhaps the crime against humanity and it is the yoke around our collective necks. No doubt about it. And it stands to reason that somewhere in antiquity someone figured out that they could lend out more than they actually had in reserves in some form of fiat currency and thereby create an obscene profit out of thin air. They're fucking vampires. It also stands to reason that such banking operations would seek to keep their methods a secret.

There is some anecdotal evidence that fractional reserve banking (fiat currency)
got it's start during the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt. However,
the leads are esoteric & may be apocryphal. It's clear the monetary
system needs a major overhaul.



...

Obidiah, Obidiah, Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire...

*

[hanshan]

...

brainpanhandler:

I mean, it's a fine question: How did this whole thing get started? And it's not an easy question to answer, obviously. I don't think the answer is probably a whole lot different than the one Astle posits, minus the unbroken line of conspirators going all the way back into antiquity and the dawn of written history and minus the patriarchal, misogynistic, christian/theistic slant.

I mean fractional reserve banking is a fucking crime against humanity, perhaps the crime against humanity and it is the yoke around our collective necks. No doubt about it. And it stands to reason that somewhere in antiquity someone figured out that they could lend out more than they actually had in reserves in some form of fiat currency and thereby create an obscene profit out of thin air. They're fucking vampires. It also stands to reason that such banking operations would seek to keep their methods a secret.

There is some anecdotal evidence that fractional reserve banking (fiat currency)
got it's start during the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt. However,
the leads are esoteric & may be apocryphal. It's clear the monetary
system needs a major overhaul.



...

Obidiah, Bidiah, Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire...

*

Wish I could see the vid. If you can put it into a vimeo format, can access.




...

[IanEye]

I just wade the tides that turned - 'til I learn to leave the past behind

btw, Sea Change is one of those albums that I play only infrequently so as not to "wear it out", I love it that much. Is Beck still into scientology?

i am not sure what Beck is up to these days. i pulled that one off the shelf recently, it is a good one for snowy night driving.

if you want an album with a similar tonality, i can't recommend "Histoire De Melody Nelson" highly enough...

[vanlose kid]

the folk myth of the vampire: a way for common people to speak about the person(s), nature and crimes of the tyrants and rulings classes when circumstances are such that explicit mention of these things is prohibited on pain of death or worse.

in popular media (re)productions of the myth, note how the "mob" that storms the palace and bring down the "cultured, elegant and misunderstood" tyrant is portrayed (cf., Egypt, Blair's biography, Bush's, etc.).

*

edit: see also the breathless and excited romantic "historical" accounts of the lives of tyrants and pharoahs etc.

*

[hanshan]

the folk myth of the vampire: a way for common people to speak about the person(s), nature and crimes of the tyrants and rulings classes when circumstances are such that explicit mention of these things is prohibited on pain of death or worse.

in popular media (re)productions of the myth, note how the "mob" that storms the palace and bring down the "cultured, elegant and misunderstood" tyrant is portrayed (cf., Egypt, Blair's biography, Bush's, etc.).

*

edit: see also the breathless and excited romantic "historical" accounts of the lives of tyrants and pharoahs etc.

*

tx; tis' the excited romantic one has to keep one's eye on...

(edited to remove extraneous symbol)

...

...

[789]

Hümmm

Now I am a woman, a legend, a unaBomber and other.....

Is there really such thing as 'Legend of Yamaguchy' ? I would like to hear it.

For the edification of ye learned ones:

Captain David Astle was a british navy captain during world war two, and before and after. (don't run to Makow for information, come to someone who actually knows a few things about Mr. Astle, and cared about his work while Makow was yet looking for strange pussy on the other side of the planet)

as to Tally Sticks from someone who was there (I take it for granted that ye learned ones read latin well):--
Richard FitzNigel, Dialogus de Scaccario
Lib. I. DIALOGUS DE SCACCARIO.

Quid ad Factorem Talearum.

In capite vero secundæ sedis primus est serviens Camerariorum, Clericus seu Laicus, cujus officium paucis expediri potest, verbo tamen non opere. Hic taleas de thesauro contra Vicecomitem, vel eum qui computat, ministrat, & cum oportuerit secundum quod ratio computationis exegerit, mutat, vel minuit, vel addit in talea, apposita cidem contratalea Vicecomitis. Quo facto in termino Paschæ longiorem Vicecomiti reddit iterum in terrnino Sancti Michaelis asserendam. In termino vero Sancti Michaelis, cum in Rotulo summa ejus scripto suerit deputata, tradit eandem longiorem Marescallo, in forulo suo reponendam.

D. Miror, quod dixisti taleam semel compoto ablatam iterum alij compoto offerendam.

M. Noli mirari; quoniam quicunq; exacta, vel soluta fuerint a Vicecomite in termino Paschæ, necesse est iterato summoneri; non tamen ut secundo solvatur quod jam solutum fuerit, sed ut offerant se compoto, & oblata talea solutionis jamdudum factæ redigatur in scripturam Rotuli ; & sic absolvatur a debito. Dum enim taleam penes se habuerit, liberatus non erit, sed semper summonendus.

D. Et hæc necessaria visa sunt; sed prosequere, si placet, de officijs.

M. Immo quia de taleis mentionem secimus, quo ordine taliandi ratio consistat, paucis adverte. Talearum igitur alia est, quæ simpliciter Talea dicitur; alia, quam numerandam nuncupamus. Legitimæ vero Taleæ longitudo a summitate indicis usq; ad summitatem extenti pollicis est : illic terebro modico perforatur. Memoranda vero quæ de firma Bl[anca] semper sieri solet, paulo brevior est ; quia facto Essayo, per quod firma dealbatur, prima illa confringitur, & apposita sibi talea combustionis taleæ longitudinem tunc primo meretur. Hac autem ratione fit incisio. In summo ponunt M libr.; sic ut incisio ejus spissitudinis palmæ capax sit; C l ut pollicis; xxl ut auricularis; libræ unius incisio quasi grapi Ordei tumentis ; solidi vero minus, sic tamen ut ex concisionibus loco vacuato modicus ibi sulcus fiat; denarius facta incisione nullo dempto signatur. Ex qua vero parte millenarius inciditur, alium non pones numerum ; nisi forte mediam ejus partem; sic ut mediam similiter incisionis ejus partem demas, & infra constituas. Sic si Cl incisurus est, & non sit tibi Millenarius, facies sic ; & de xxl. sic ; & de xx Sol. quos libram dicimus. Quod si multi Millenarij, vel centenarij, vel vigenæ: librarum incidendæ sunt, lex eadem servetur, ut ex patentiore parte ejusdem taleæ, hoc est, quæ directe tibi proponitur facta annotatione major numerus, ex altera vero minor incidatur; ex patentiore veto parte semper est major numerus in summo, ex minus patente semper minor, hoc est denarij. Marcæ argenti ad Scaccarium incisio sola significativa non est ; sed per solidos designatur. Marcam autem auri in medio taleæ, sicut libram unam incidas. Aureum vero unum non prorsus ut argenteutn, sed ducto directe incidentis cultello per medium taleæ, non obliquando sicut sit in argenteo. Sic igitur ipsa locorum dispositio & incisionis differentia, quid aureum vel quid sit argenteum, utrumq; determinat. Cæterum oportunius hæc omnia Visu quam verbo cognosces.

D. Quod de his restat oculata side constabit. Nunc si placet de officijs prosequere.

M. Post hunc ut supra diximus interpositis viris aliquibus discretis a rege missis, residet is qui ex præcepto Regis computationes facit positione numerorum pro calculis. Officium quidem satis perplexum est & laboriosum; & fine eo vix vel nunquam Scaccarij ratio possit expediri ; sed nulli illic residenti convenit ex officio, nisi cui Rex vel Justicia mandaverit exequendum. Laboriosum inquam ; quia cætera officia lingua vel manu; hæc hijs duobus explentur; sed in hoc, lingua, manus, oculi, mens indefessa laborant.

_____
Astle's reference to 20th century writers does not disqualify what he wrote about ancient times.


http://www.dailypaul.com/123387/an-old- ... find-books
Yamaguchy Incorporated, the source of your finagled wisdom

[annie aronburg]

btw, Sea Change is one of those albums that I play only infrequently so as not to "wear it out", I love it that much. Is Beck still into scientology?

He's a second-generation church member married to another second-generation church member working to make a third generation. He's not "into" Scientology so much as he is "in" Scientology.

[Simulist]

btw, Sea Change is one of those albums that I play only infrequently so as not to "wear it out", I love it that much. Is Beck still into scientology?

He's a second-generation church member married to another second-generation church member working to make a third generation. He's not "into" Scientology so much as he is "in" Scientology.

Hi, Annie. We're talking about Glenn Beck here, right? Is there some proof that he is in Scientology?

I thought he was a Mormon.

[brainpanhandler]

This Beck you dufus head.

[Simulist]

pondering on how ideas from the Left have been co-opted by the Right...the lens of Glenn Beck

I guess that pendulum swings back and forth. Astle would no doubt attribute this entanglement to the design of the bankers behind the scenes seeking to keep us all divided.

I just wade the tides that turned - 'til I learn to leave the past behind

btw, Sea Change is one of those albums that I play only infrequently so as not to "wear it out", I love it that much. Is Beck still into scientology?

This Beck you dufus head.

Yes, I saw "Glenn Beck" mentioned earlier, and didn't bother to click on the YouTube link of "the other Beck," a little later. So okay, I'm a "dufus head."

But thanks for the clarification just the same.