The Dark Side of the Moon.

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The Dark Side of the Moon.

Postby elpuma » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:07 pm

The Dark Side of the Moon: 40 years after moon landing the doubts persist

Was it all a hoax?
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In the words Neil Armstrong chiselled into history, it was one small step for a man

But were the Moon landings really mankind's greatest scientific leap or the most fantastic hoax ever pulled?

The thrilling TV pictures, so faint and grey that we might have been peering at a ghost moving through a thick fog, certainly showed a bulky shape in a spacesuit backing down a ladder, stretching out a leg, tentatively putting one booted foot on to the surface.

The surface of where, though? The Moon or an elaborate mock-up in a movie studio somewhere in a remote corner of an Earthly desert?

As the world prepares to celebrate the 40th anniversary of that July day in 1969 when the Apollo 11 mission completed the first manned Moon landing allegedly the doubts live on.

The conspiracy theorists, the lunatics, call them what you like, insist that Armstrong and his fellow astronauts, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins, never got further than a few orbits of the Earth.

They claim what the world was watching as it goggled at its TVs was all a fake, filmed months in advance and broadcast as if it were real and happening live.

The landing. The footprints in the dust. Those phantom figures bunny-hopping around in a barren landscape. They were all part of the scam.

A loopy idea? Consider this:

In 1979, when the first suggestions began to emerge that NASA might have been up to some dirty tricks, six per cent of Americans thought the Moon landing was a hoax. In 1999, the number had risen to 11 per cent.

When they counted again recently, they discovered no fewer than 22 per cent believed that the Apollo 11 Moon landing never happened.

That's more than 60 million suspicious Americans. And many more millions worldwide. The internet now teems with claims and allegations.

Mankind was conned, they argue, and there are good reasons for suspicion. First, the motive.

Ever since President John F Kennedy pledged at the start of the 60s that man would travel to the Moon and back within a decade, the Americans were desperate to beat the Russians in the space race.

That summer of 1969, Moscow was only a month from launching its own manned Moon shot.

Washington, burdened with the Vietnam war and civil unrest, benefited from a popular distraction to take attention away from its problems.

And then, the practicalities.

Technology then was positively primitive. The computer developed for the Apollo programme had only a tiny fraction of the power in a home PC today. The satnav that guides your car is many times more sophisticated than the machine which, so we are assured, steered a mission 250,000 miles to a few square yards of the Sea of Tranquility and back.

Even recently, when President George W Bush announced the USA's ambition to return to the Moon, he was told it would take 11 years to put the engineering together.

It's embarrassing now for NASA to realise that, as a four-decade anniversary approaches, a rapidly-growing body of public opinion is convinced the greatest moment was a fake.

At NASA headquarters in Washington, the men in suits even have a code for them. HBs the Hoax Believers. Area 51, the HBs argue, is the most likely spot where he put down his foot. Its a top-secret military installation in the Nevada desert, also known as Groom Lake, or Dreamland.

It would be the ideal place to hide a shed big enough to house an area of make-believe Moon.

NASA had raised $40billion of funding to go to the Moon. Plenty for a high-class production and, HBs say, enough to pay off a large number of people.

Of course, NASA has its photographic proof. Thousands of pictures, in fact. They were taken on Moon missions between 1969 and 1972, showing men and their machines, against a backdrop that had become very familiar to a public growing almost bored with the adventure by the end.

The HBs, though, kept picking over every detail. They began to notice strange tricks of the light.

How, for example, could an astronaut (below) be walking through a shadow, or have the sun at his back, and yet be brightly lit from the front, showing off all those bits of his spacesuit, especially the Stars and Stripes flag, in technicolour?

If you were posing this in a studio, with so-called in-fill lights blazing from every angle, you couldn't have produced a better result. The response from NASA? Well, you have to understand that on the Moon light can behave in odd ways.

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There isn't the atmosphere to spread it around like on Earth, but there is an open surface to reflect it where you might least expect it. So where are the stars? In every photo, the sky was ink black, with nothing at all twinkling out there.

Another lunar phenomenon, NASA said. Because the sun was so bright, and the surface so reflective, the stars would be too dim for a camera to capture, or an astronauts eye to register.

It didn't take long, either, before questions were raised about moondust. Just like moonlight, it seemed to have strange properties. An astronauts foot would leave a print, for example. Yet the lunar rover, with an Earthly weight of 10 tons, would not.

And how come, when the spidery landing vehicle hovered above the surface and fired blasts from its retro-jets to lower itself down, it didn't even appear to have disturbed the very ground underneath it.

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To questions such as this, NASA scientists would sigh wearily, like teachers trying to educate the dullest kid in class in the simplest physics.

Surely everyone knew, they pointed out, how to work out the pressure from 3,000lb of thrust, across the square area of the engine nozzle, how a man's boot could exert a greater force on the ground than a large wheel and, for Heavens sake, how all these calculations change in a vacuum, such as on the airless Moon.

And the flag planted by Armstrong and Aldrin. The sceptics say the shadows cast by the astronaut, the lander and various rocks seem to go in all directions when they should be parallel, while the flag doesn’t cast any shadow at all.

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Nasa's version is that the shadows don’t run parallel because of the distortions in perspective, projecting a 3D scene on to a two-dimensional photograph. Some shadows disappear because the lunar surface has a peculiar property and reflects light back in the direction it came from.

But the HBs have begun to gather important allies.

A former engineer who worked on the design of Apollo rockets Bill Kaysing had his doubts during the 1960s about whether the Moon programme would ever get off the ground.

What I saw on TV made me a sceptic, he says. The whole thing seemed phoney to me.

He was particularly puzzled by the landing vehicle itself, which didn't seem to make any engine noise.

Almost as if, Bill points out, it was a prop being lowered by wires on to a movie set.

The chances of getting a man to the Moon and bringing him back again were something like 0.0017 per cent in other words, a virtual impossibility, he adds.

My view is they were told if you cant make it, fake it.

He's not alone in his doubts.

Brian OLeary says: "I can't be sure 100 per cent that man actually walked on the Moon."

Considering Brian was an astronaut in the 1960s, and an adviser during the Apollo programme, that's a bombshell.

Perhaps most outrageous of all conspiracies is that three men did indeed go to the Moon but there was not the technology to bring them back.

They were sacrificed for US pride. The Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins, who reappeared on Earth were lookalike actors.

Today only Aldrin, now 78, keeps a high public profile.

He was confronted two years ago by a TV reporter who demanded he swear on the Bible that the landing wasnt a hoax.

Aldrin's response? He punched the guy on the nose and narrowly escaped prosecution. More proof, said the HBs, of the pressure of keeping a 40-year secret.

The most telling evidence, say the HBs, is that the Moons still there, 250,000 miles away, but we dont go there any more.

And we haven't been since we abruptly abandoned the missions 37 years ago.

Has science moved so far backwards? Or are we about to celebrate the day when it really took all of us for a ride?

That small step begins to look even more mysterious than ever.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/02/14/the-dark-side-of-the-moon-40-years-after-moon-landing-the-doubts-persist-115875-21123653/
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Postby slomo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:49 pm

I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, though my bias has always been that we did, in fact, land on the moon and that the nay-sayers were a bit luney (pardon the pun).

But a few reactions, in opposite directions:

Some shadows disappear because the lunar surface has a peculiar property and reflects light back in the direction it came from.


That doesn't make any physical sense. Light obeys some fairly strict and simple mathematical laws, and more so in an environment where there is no atmosphere to refract it.

He was particularly puzzled by the landing vehicle itself, which didn't seem to make any engine noise.


There wouldn't be any noise. Noise requires a medium to transmit it, and there is none such on the moon.

Now, it is possible that there are more complicated physical issues than I am aware of, issues that explain both statements. But, in absence of those, I stand perplexed.
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Postby professorpan » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:57 pm

Everything under the Sun is in tune.
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Postby sunny » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:05 pm

It didn't take long, either, before questions were raised about moondust. Just like moonlight, it seemed to have strange properties. An astronauts foot would leave a print, for example. Yet the lunar rover, with an Earthly weight of 10 tons, would not.

And how come, when the spidery landing vehicle hovered above the surface and fired blasts from its retro-jets to lower itself down, it didn't even appear to have disturbed the very ground underneath it.


Dave McGowan brought this up some time ago and it's always given me pause.
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Postby professorpan » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:08 pm

And how come, when the spidery landing vehicle hovered above the surface and fired blasts from its retro-jets to lower itself down, it didn't even appear to have disturbed the very ground underneath it.


Uh, maybe because it did disturb the surface dust, but that dust quickly settled? Do people expect a crater beneath the lander or something?
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Postby OP ED » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:25 pm

also, for the record, because the article seemed misleading about it, NASA did not tell George W that it would take 11 years to "go back to the moon". It told him it would be eleven years before the new shuttle program was prepared to move a permanent mining installation to the moon. these things are not at all the same.

(that is, being ready to go on a road trip is not the same as being ready to take a hotel with you on a road trip and build it when you get there)

just saying.

Helium3 motherfuckers.

In thiry years the HBers will be like the flat earthers who refused to acknowledge the colonization of North America in the 1500s.

going to the moon is easy.
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Postby barracuda » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:26 pm

I'm sorry, but couldn't you just about throw a rock and hit the moon? And how do folks think all those satellites that run your tee vee signal got up there? Rubber bands? Are they faking the other, unmanned missions to Mars, Venus, Jupiter, etc. as well? How about the photos from the bottom of the ocean? Why or why not? Hasn't it been proven time and again that men will strap themselves into just about any machine that will go and then light the fuse/turn the key? Haven't they ever read Gravity's Rainbow? Or heard of Larry Walters?

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Postby Penguin » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:31 pm

Yeah. Id doubt it too - but theres stuff like the International Space Station and MIR - a friend radio amateur used to talk in russian with the MIR people when it was passing directly above - the crew had a radio just for that purpose. If we can get a couple space stations in orbit, and scores of satellites, and probes to farthest reaches of the solar system (even thou at times the geniuses at NASA seem to mix metrics and imperials, thus creating some interplanetary expensive junk), I think we can reach the closest rock.
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Postby elpuma » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:54 pm

I don't doubt we went to the moon. When I was a kid, I received 'tons' of beautiful hq color and b&w pics., literature, etc. from NASA... all free. All extremely impressive, especially to a young inquiring mind. It's a real stretch to think that this entire program was so well coordinated to dupe the masses. But, I keep an open mind on all issues.

What really fascinates me is the continued discussion that the moon landing was faked.
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Postby Legionnaire » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:00 pm

These questions keep being asked, and they keep being answered--and they keep being answered satisfactorily. Year in, and year out.

Dealing with stupid people is frustrating. I'm not surprised that Buzz Aldrin punched one of those guys in the face. What I am a little surprised by is that it took him so long.
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Postby Penguin » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:26 pm

I find it pretty normal.
I mean, God did create the world in 6 days, and rested on the 7th.
And Ive had an hours long argument with one roommate who studied theology. About why Earth is older than 5000 years. And why God probably didnt fake all of geology and fossils.

I think I dont need to tell you what he thought about these issues.

Edit: Thou I should point out that my moon landing views are not on par with my views vs. God. Im open to convincing evidence showing that moon landings were, indeed, hoaxed.

On second thought - Im also open to credible evidence that God created the world in 7 days 5000 years ago, and faked all the geological etc. stuff to make it a lil more interesting.

But as Lily says below, this stuff is usually used to discredit any, every and all "conspiracy theories". Fuck I hate that phrase.
Last edited by Penguin on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby LilyPatToo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:46 pm

I've been reading this faked landing stuff for years. It's still not convinced me.

The thing that creeps me out the most about conspiracy issues like this one is how beautifully they play into any disinfo ops being currently run. It's child's play to poke ginormous holes in them (as this thread is beginning to do), so they can be pointed out to non-conspiracy folks (I like to call them "coincidence theorists") to invalidate ALL of us.

Doesn't matter if we're focused upon serious issues like 9/11 or the mind control programs or false flag ops--we're all easily and quickly tarred with the same broad brush. And it becomes knee-jerk, accepted wisdom after a very short while, too. So, before long, most of society has an uninformed negative reaction to any and all conspiracy issues. Drives me nuts...

And, in the end, it doesn't much matter whether the muddying/poisoning of the water was done by pros or by useful idiots, does it? :?

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Postby psynapz » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:49 pm

From "Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA" (italic emphasis original, bold emphasis added):
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Even to my untrained eye, it looked out of place: a man, wearing jeans and a long, light-colored raincoat (it was typical L.A. weather outside -- so, why the coat?). This man, wearing one of those floppy "great coats" that cowpunchers used to wear in old Westerns, complete with a dark leather bag slung over one shoulder, was slowly, methodically, placing "something" on each chair in Von Karman [Auditorium].

As he got closer, I suddenly realized he was accompanied by a more conventionally dressed representative from JPL itself: coatless, in white shirt and black tie -- the second figure was, in fact, none other than the head of the JPL press office, Frank Bristow.

In the midst of all the commotion, why was Bristow -- again, the head of the JPL press office -- personally squiring this very out-of-place individual around the Auditorium?

Then, as if that wasn't mystery enough, Bristow began moving "great coat guy" back out to the cramped "press room area" beyond the glassed-in foyer of the Audiotrium. There, in an office where space correspondents, like Walter Sullivan (New York Times), Frank Pearlman (San Francisco Chronicle), Jules Bergmann (ABC) and Bill Stout (our local guy from CBS) hung out, and wrote their leads and copy after each formal press briefing held in Von Karman itself, a handful of reporters were now being introduced, again by Bristow, to "great coat guy." Why was the official head of the JPL press office doing this?

I soon had my answer.

As Bristow watched approvingly, his "guest" proceeded to hand each available reporter a copy of whatever he'd been putting on the seats back in the Auditorium.

As I opened up the handout, something yellow and silvery fell on the tile floor. It was a shiny American flag, maybe four inches lengthwise, made of aluminized mylar. I turned to the couple of mimeographed pages and began to read -- and couldn't believe my eyes.

The date was July 22, 1969. The three Apollo 11 astronauts -- Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Mike Collins, two of whom had just successfully walked on "the frigging moon," and wouldn't splash down in the South Pacific Ocean for two more days, were still haflway between Earth and the "Sea of Tranquility." Yet here, someone with an obvious "in" to JPL was handing out a mimeographed broadsheet to all the real reporters ... claiming that "NASA has just faked the entire Apollo 11 Lunar Landing... on a soundstage in Nevada!"

And, if that wasn't weird enough, this individual was being personally escorted around Von Karman by none other than the head of the JPL press office himself!

I did what I saw the other veternas do: I casually threw the two pages in the trash and tucked the shiny flag into my notebook. But the seed had been planted.

Looking back, based on all our hard-won knowledge of what is really "out there" in the solar system, and experiencing the outrageous lengths NASA will go to keep "the secret," I can now put the pieces together.

This was an official "Op" -- Bristow's job was to make sure that all the national reporters covering NASA at least saw what was handed out that afternoon, complete with shiny flag to act as a mnemonic device to trigger the memory of what was in the pamphlet long after it was history. Sooner or later, a percentage of those who read it that afternoon at JPL would write it up -- as a quirky angle on the far-too-dry official tale of Apollo 11.

In this way, it would become a naturally-reproducing meme -- "a unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another" -- which is exactly what NASA apparently ilntended to plant at JPL that afternoon. To deliberately "infect" the American culture with the sotry that "The Moon landing was all a fake!"

Was this all some far-seeing "back-up plan" if, in some point in the future, it started to emerge why the astronauts had really gone to the moon?

Fox, the "fair and blanaced" network, activated the meme in 2001 -- with the Did We Land on the Moon? special. There, waiting in the wings was a neatly-packaged 30-year-old "conspiracy theory" perfectly gift-wrapped for those finally beginning to "disbelieve" in NASA. An officially concocted "inoculation" against troublemakers who would one day place before many of those same national reporters a set of embarrassing official Apollo photographs, asking the crucial question: "What did NASA really find during its Apollo missions to the Moon?"
-----
“blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project” - Hugh Manatee Wins
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Postby Julia W » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:42 pm

I guess I'm one of the useful idiots on this matter. I'm much more of the belief that we faked it, thought we did as growing up, but now need to be convince the other way (nothing I've read has convinced me we went). The Van Allen Belts and the photographs are the two strongest points that come to mind.
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Postby waugs » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:51 pm

We'll never really know.

The lingering questions seem to be, why are we the only country to have "made it" there and why haven't we been back since the 60's? Seems like we'd want to put a lot more study into our own moon.
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