rigorousintuition.ca

In this videotaped incident at Coachella, a nude man refuses to put his wizard robe back on and is repeatedly tazed and thrashed by three large security cops while literally hundreds of concertgoers watch. I wanted to open this up to general discussion here for a few reasons:

1. It strikes me that Wizard guy is pretty clearly on Xtasy. He keeps saying, "It doesn't matter what you do to me... I don't care... Its the most beautiful thing you could ever imagine..." or words to that effect, and he seems somewhat unfazed by the taze.

2. The ubiquitous and pernicious usage of the celphone camera to document whatever nearby horrorshow is at hand has clearly become an acceptable replacement for action of any kind. The filming of the torture of this helpless and empathetic character is verbally noted by more than one onlooker as if this is punishment enough foir the actions of the guards. "It's all on video tape! The whole world is watching!" etc. While the crowd is mostly on his side, they do nothing while he is repeatedly tazed.

3. Not really an expert, but this guy seems to have an in-ee rather than an out-ee. Is that normal for wizards?

Contrast and compare with this response by European soccer fans.

barracuda wrote:Contrast and compare with [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Fn-j_bsIc]this response by European soccer fans.

Holy shit, America needs to grow a pair

Over-the-Top criminal idiocy; The guard's resort to tasering a guy who's clearly stoned and won't put on clothes, that is. It is completely unwarranted; The cops are now resorting to the use of taser in all types of non-compliance issues where the cops are under NO likely or immediate threat, like here where a highway patrolman tries to arrest and then tasers a motorist because he won't sign a traffic ticket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20cedyl ... re=related


The terrible thing about these incidents where cops will taser at the drop of a hat, is that there is a very real possibility of severe injury or death --they are NOT non-lethal devices!

Christ, this nation is fucked, thanks to generations of spineless thugs and power-mad gangsters, greedy fat-cats and brainless scum who've undermined and subverted the very best of which we were capable, allowing it to descend into a fascist police-state thugocracy.

At least 1/3 of the comments re: the naked dude tasering were supportive of the security guards actions -- almost seemed like it might have been a coordinated pro-police PR damage-control e-mail -tree type thang -- or else a lot of people have swallowed the Kool-Aid of embracing tyranny as a protection against themselves, accepting that ALL laws have equal weight and force and all authorities including police officers must be obeyed without question.

Sad.

1. It strikes me that Wizard guy is pretty clearly on Xtasy. He keeps saying, "It doesn't matter what you do to me... I don't care... Its the most beautiful thing you could ever imagine..." or words to that effect, and he seems somewhat unfazed by the taze.

I wouldn't say unfazed. His entire body becomes rigid. Although certainly he does not seem to be in pain, per se, and tazers hurt like a mother fucker. I have been directly involved in a situation where a tazer was used appropriately on a violent lunatic. He screamed in agony, but continued his assault on the officer that was tazering him and then finally ran. I was glad the fucker was finally running away, but then he hops in the cops cruiser which was still running and roars away. Two blocks later he slams into a tree and a minute later cops swarm the car and shoot him several times. The report in the paper said 4 shots were fired, but it was more like 12.

2. The ubiquitous and pernicious usage of the celphone camera to document whatever nearby horrorshow is at hand has clearly become an acceptable replacement for action of any kind. The filming of the torture of this helpless and empathetic character is verbally noted by more than one onlooker as if this is punishment enough foir the actions of the guards. "It's all on video tape! The whole world is watching!" etc. While the crowd is mostly on his side, they do nothing while he is repeatedly tazed.

I think it's probably true that even before the cellphone camera, Americans were highly reluctant to intervene in a situation like this and directly oppose police brutality. But it's an interesting thesis that with "The ubiquitous and pernicious usage of the celphone camera to document whatever nearby horrorshow is at hand has clearly become an acceptable replacement for action of any kind.", although I don't think pernicious is really the right word. It's sort of hard to film and confront police officers at the same time. I think it is good that such incidents are recorded and I am glad that someone did it. There is at least the chance that such evidence could be used against these officers, either in a disciplinary action or in a civil case. Clearly using a taser on this guy was grossly excessive.

I tend to think that if just one or two people in the crowd had intervened others would have joined them. I think Americans are so unused to the idea of opposing the state and it's thuggish minions directly and confrontationally that it is almost unthinkable. In looking at the soccor video I think it is it is worth noting that the officer that gets kicked in the head a number of times appears to me to be the cop that was attempting to get the other officer that was jabbing their victim with a baton to stop. A couple of people attack the officers and then a whole group (a very small percentage of the entire crowd) are emboldened and swarm over the cops. Clearly several of the participants are brutal thugs in their own right, repeatedly kicking the officer while he is down and it is not unusual for a soccor crowd to contain brutal thugs. It is also worth noting that the unfortunate officer that is overwhelmed and knocked to the ground is completely abandoned to his fate by his cowardly colleagues.

It's not really a fair comparison, international soccor fans and American concert goers, nonetheless I think it is true that Americans could stand to grow a pair (and that the unfortunate and really poorly endowed naked wizard could stand to grow something, anything).

brainpanhandler wrote:...(and that the unfortunate and really poorly endowed naked wizard could stand to grow something, anything).

Don't worry, he probably does. Once upon a time, I had a boyfriend who was just like that when he was flaccid. But given the proper inspiration? Well, let's just say that the old proverb "Mighty oaks from tiny acorns grow" applies to more than trees.

Are there any societal expectations that apply here? Granted, this was Coachella, but say I decided to go to your favorite grocery store, drop some X and disrobe. Your all OK with that then? Your children wouldn't mind?

I wouldn't have helped him either....when an exercise in personal freedom step on the rights of others a line should be drawn. Who knows what the guy was on. He was clearly out of his mind. And you would personally guarantee, on this turds behalf, that he would cause no harm to others?

Just sayin...

I can't speak for the others, Cowbell, but my own outrage stems from the fact that the security guards TAZED an unarmed guy, when their numbers were such that they could have simply overpowered him & carried/dragged him away to wherever concert-going miscreants are detained.

RomanyX wrote:I can't speak for the others, Cowbell, but my own outrage stems from the fact that the security guards TAZED an unarmed guy, when their numbers were such that they could have simply overpowered him & carried/dragged him away to wherever concert-going miscreants are detained.

I can dig it. However, it wasn't as though they simply walked up to the guy and tazed him. He had ample opportunity to cooperate prior to that act but did not. And it appeared that even the three of them couldn't get the cuffs on the guy. I've seen that before with PCP users, as have they. So again, another question. At what point should police officers, performing a public safety function, put themselves (and possibly others) in harms way because this asshat couldn't handle his dope?

ETA: IMO, the thread headline says it all....

Except that the cuffs didn't even come out until after he'd been tazed repeatedly. They half-heartedly wrestle him around, trying to force him to put his robe back on, which he adamantly refuses to do. That's the point at which they should have simply hustled his naked ass away. And I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the idea that those three big guys were in any danger from that flabby little fool.

RomanyX wrote:Except that the cuffs didn't even come out until after he'd been tazed repeatedly. They half-heartedly wrestle him around, trying to force him to put his robe back on, which he adamantly refuses to do. That's the point at which they should have simply hustled his naked ass away. And I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the idea that those three big guys were in any danger from that flabby little fool.

The inference here is that the cops are just itchin to pull out the taze which I simply didn't see and is highly doubtful what with the crowd that had gathered. I'll half to watch it again, but it probably wouldn't matter. Your opinion that the -three- of them "half-heartedly" wrestle him to the ground is subjective and one which I will have to disagree with. I don't think the onus is on the cops to determine in the heat of the moment just what the guy was on but it seemed to give him a definite will to resist.

Do not get me wrong- I am opposed to indiscriminate use of Tasers. In this case however, IMO (of which I am entitled to and seems to square with that of the majority of the crowd in attendance) he had it coming.

As I am already known around here as a "Kool-Aid Drinker", I suppose it's just par for my course...

FIN

Just to clarify: I didn't say that they half-heartedly wrestled him to the ground. Knocking him to the ground came well after the point at which I said they should have dragged him away.

Are there any societal expectations that apply here?

Yes. Our genitally challenged wizard has a societally based moral obligation to conform to basic standards of decency as well as probably a legal obligation to abide by laws which codify those standards. And the officers are obligated to pursue every means possible before using even the "non-lethal" force of a tazer. It seems to me likely that these officers tried for some time before this particular video starts to get the man to put his clothes back on and we know from the video that they tried at least a few times to hand the man his clothes and get him to put them back on. When he refuses and they make a clumsy, half hearted attempt to take the man into custody they immediately and suddenly escalate to one of the more brutal tazings I have ever seen. There is a trigger on those things and all you have to do is release the trigger to stop the flow of current. The officer applying the current keeps the tazer activated continuously for 40 to 45 seconds. You can hear the electricity crackling down the wires (btw, this makes for a spectacular display in the dark). I would think that these three officers, overweight as they seem to be, could take down one flabby 30 something hippie spouting platitudes about how beautiful everything is if they made a concerted effort or had any training at all in joint locks or jujitsu or some such discipline. For fuck's sake, two of these guys could not get him to turn over on his face? My guess is that they were repulsed by the whole thing and were unable to get past their latent homosexual tendencies and were therefore afraid to touch the guy. Perfect. Look carefully at the way the officer that does the tazing looks as he makes that choice and draws his tazer. Does he look to you like he just thought, " alright, fucker. If you're not going to cooperate then I'll just taze the hell out of you until you do". Officers should never be using a tazer in a punitive fashion. It should be a second to last resort, just short of using deadly force. Lazy, fat, incompetent and sadistic bastards.

...say I decided to go to your favorite grocery store, drop some X and disrobe. Your all OK with that then?

No, and you ask as though you think there is reason to believe more than one of the members that has posted in this thread so far would answer yes to that question.

Your children wouldn't mind?

I can't say as I don't have children, but depending on their age I presume they would be curious and perhaps a bit scarred by the whole incident, not least of which as a result of what would undoubtedly become quite an emotional scene. Parents would probably be going berserk, children would be crying, a store security guard and perhaps a couple of hero type male patrons would tackle you and hold you down until the police arrived. I'd argue that we would all live in a better world if we didn't get so freaked out over mere nudity, but society being what it is it's reasonable to expect that people abide by it's norms and this guy certainly should not be the poster child for an absolution of bodily shame.

when an exercise in personal freedom step on the rights of others a should a line be drawn

Agreed. And when the cops overreact and brutalize a human being, a line should be drawn.

Who knows what the guy was on. He was clearly out of his mind.

I think Xtasy is probably a good guess, but you're right... we can't know and the cops could not know either. It is not unfair to take into consideration the fact that the wizard was behaving in a way that was consistent with intoxication on some substance or another when assessing the officers' decision to escalate to the level of force of a tazer. Certain drugs can give otherwise ordinary human beings superhuman strength and ability to tolerate pain. People in such a state can be very dangerous, even to three well armed, burly cops. Nonetheless, I think these officers should have made a much more serious attempt to take this guy into custody physically before resulting to a tazer. No doubt a lawyer could make the argument that the use of the tazer was in fact intended to prevent the injuries that might have otherwise occurred if the officers had continued to try to subdue the guy physically. Maybe so, but not if these donut eating sadistic slobs had any sort of professionalism.

And you would personally guarantee, on this turds behalf, that he would cause no harm to others?

I can't imagine anyone would answer yes to that. In fact, I would probably give this guy a fairly wide berth. He seems harmless enough though and most of the crowd seems unafraid for their safety. For that matter, the cops do not really look the least intimidated. Rather, they look pretty relaxed.

I understand your point of view, but I stand by the statement that using a taser on this guy was grossly excessive.

At what point should police officers, performing a public safety function, put themselves (and possibly others) in harms way

After when they did and if they do not want to put themselves in harm's way then they should have picked another profession.

brainpanhandler wrote:I would think that these three officers, overweight as they seem to be, could take down one flabby 30 something hippie spouting platitudes about how beautiful everything is if they made a concerted effort or had any training at all in joint locks or jujitsu or some such discipline. For fuck's sake, two of these guys could not get him to turn over on his face?

brainpanhandler wrote:I think Xtasy is probably a good guess, but you're right... we can't know and the cops could not know either. It is not unfair to take into consideration the fact that the wizard was behaving in a way that was consistent with intoxication on some substance or another when assessing the officers' decision to escalate to the level of force of a tazer. Certain drugs can give otherwise ordinary human beings superhuman strength and ability to tolerate pain. People in such a state can be very dangerous, even to three well armed, burly cops. Nonetheless, I think these officers should have made a much more serious attempt to take this guy into custody physically before resulting to a tazer. No doubt a lawyer could make the argument that the use of the tazer was in fact intended to prevent the injuries that might have otherwise occurred if the officers had continued to try to subdue the guy physically.

So which is it?

brainpanhandler wrote:My guess is that they were repulsed by the whole thing and were unable to get past their latent homosexual tendencies and were therefore afraid to touch the guy.

Lazy, fat, incompetent and sadistic bastards.

Maybe so, but not if these donut eating sadistic slobs had any sort of professionalism.

Biased much?

ETA: I watched this yesterday and then again just now. Early on one of the "sadistic slobs"offers the guy a deal. "I'll make you a deal, put your clothes on and go have a good time". The offer is refused.

Stoopid Cops...

Cosmic Cowbell wrote:

brainpanhandler wrote:I would think that these three officers, overweight as they seem to be, could take down one flabby 30 something hippie spouting platitudes about how beautiful everything is if they made a concerted effort or had any training at all in joint locks or jujitsu or some such discipline. For fuck's sake, two of these guys could not get him to turn over on his face?

brainpanhandler wrote:I think Xtasy is probably a good guess, but you're right... we can't know and the cops could not know either. It is not unfair to take into consideration the fact that the wizard was behaving in a way that was consistent with intoxication on some substance or another when assessing the officers' decision to escalate to the level of force of a tazer. Certain drugs can give otherwise ordinary human beings superhuman strength and ability to tolerate pain. People in such a state can be very dangerous, even to three well armed, burly cops. Nonetheless, I think these officers should have made a much more serious attempt to take this guy into custody physically before resulting to a tazer. No doubt a lawyer could make the argument that the use of the tazer was in fact intended to prevent the injuries that might have otherwise occurred if the officers had continued to try to subdue the guy physically.

So which is it?

I don't think it has to be either/or. I don't think there is anything black and white about it. It's just my opinion that the tazer was used too quickly and with excessive brutality.

Cosmic Cowbell wrote:

brainpanhandler wrote:My guess is that they were repulsed by the whole thing and were unable to get past their latent homosexual tendencies and were therefore afraid to touch the guy.

Lazy, fat, incompetent and sadistic bastards.

Maybe so, but not if these donut eating sadistic slobs had any sort of professionalism.

Biased much?

Not really, just observant.

Cosmic Cowbell wrote: ETA: I watched this yesterday and then again just now. Early on one of the "sadistic slobs"offers the guy a deal. "I'll make you a deal, put your clothes on and go have a good time". The offer is refused.

Stoopid Cops...

Agreed, there is an offer of this sort. There were probably more before the video starts. The kid in the cargo shorts runs up to the wizard while he's doing his boa striptease and begs him to put his clothes back on and stay.

I still say the use of the tazer was grossly excessive.

and the way it should be when they abuse us in this way

http://ignoredprayers.blogspot.com/2008 ... 9ea059da1f