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Postby barracuda » Thu May 21, 2009 10:35 pm

I would say that the wrongful death suit against Loyd Jowers and others won by Coretta King shows that sometimes the "conspiracy" in these cases is more than merely "theoretical", and if Ray is played out as a one-stop-shop it's just another white man's wash. My guess is that we are far enough away from any real culpability in the matter that any handy villain will do.
Last edited by barracuda on Thu May 21, 2009 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby lightningBugout » Thu May 21, 2009 10:37 pm

RocketMan wrote:
the besmirching of talented artists


What, there's a pantheon of "talented artists" we're not supposed to "besmirch"? Count me out of that shit.

foistlastus, you do realize you're linking to virulently anti-Semitic (or perhaps anti-Jew is a better word, seeing as "Semitic" includes also other groupings) sites?


foistlastus has a history of linking to white power and anti-jewish sites. just go through his profile.
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Postby foistlastus » Thu May 21, 2009 11:11 pm

foistlastus, you do realize you're linking to virulently anti-Semitic (or perhaps anti-Jew is a better word, seeing as "Semitic" includes also other groupings) sites?[/quote]

foistlastus has a history of linking to white power and anti-jewish sites. just go through his profile.[/quote]

For the record I am not an advocate of either of those things, I was just googling data, maybe a bit blindly. I apologize if I offended any one. I didn't even perceive the ability to read profiles until tonight.
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Postby JackRiddler » Thu May 21, 2009 11:42 pm

.

Believe it or not, I think it's too soon for any film.

The effect of a feature film on iconic radical leaders is to eat the real person and the real cause into the movie. More people see and understand Malcolm X through Spike Lee's and Denzel Washington's depiction than by reading or viewing the real Malcolm X. Denzel's performance is more Malcolm X in people's mind than the original. And that's not because the movie is bad or exploitative; I think it is an enormous film. And yet its effect is to shrink the man into his portrayed film image.

There are thresholds where such films have a more positive impact. Either it can be about people in the distant past and thus make for a revival of important struggles and ideas. It's definitely time for the Emma Goldman movie.

Or if it's engaging in polemic and advancing an explicit and important point of view, like JFK.

Or as in the case of Milk, I think that film did a service in reviving this history. Bringing him to the people who didn't know his story, those outside the activist and gay communities.

Otherwise the test of an MLK film would not be necessarily in what assassination scenario it advances. (It might must end with the shots fired, without further explanation.) Rather, will it depict the man in his full radicality? Will it show his greatest speech, of April 4, 1967, "Beyond Vietnam," in which he extended his analysis to the world situation, to imperialism, to class and capitalism, to economic injustice, to the US government as "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today." Those words and the call for revolution were a monumental turn for him, though he was always heading there by the logic and force of what he did. And they almost certainly are why he was killed, one year later to the day.

.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri May 22, 2009 2:47 am

Here is some old and recent background for what George CIA Lucas and Steven CIA Spielberg are up to in the Age of Obama, restoring the social order upset by the Cheney administration.

The topic of heuristics as tools for racial and sexual agitation propaganda or agit-prop...is important enough that I'm going to go ahead and horrify a few people (just ignore this post if you want) with examples of the psyops tactic of marketing competing associations with keywords and memes at critical times in the news cycle to exploit interference theory, inoculation theory, and something called 'the similarity paradox' all working against recall and retransmission of 'subversive' information...all in the name of Stability Operations.
This is the template for marketing scripts that has been used since the late 1950s. The target audience is naive suggestible youth about to be of recruiting age and is thus pre-emptive. So don't apply this model to mature over-informed Rigorous Intuition readers, ok?

'Milk' is a good example of a seemingly 'good guy' film promoted and timed for evil ulterior motives during the recent US administration transition. 'Milk' was released 11/26/08 shortly after Obama won the presidential election and Republicans were clearing out gun shops in a panic, a hot time to be pushing their buttons by waving the Gay King of the Castro District in San Francisco from Pelosi's California in their faces.

"Castro?" With the imminent warming of relations with Cuba during the Obama administration, bridging the negative associations of the keyword, "Castro," as both commie and gay makes for potent agit-prop meant to induce Pavlovian seething amongst authoritarian nationalist Republicans in the near future when the Cuba thing starts to show up in the news. Republicans will have a subliminal sexual neurosis driving their views about Cuba. Sex both sells and repels.

One of the world's largest weapon manufacturers, General Electric, owns the film division called Focus Features that made 'Milk' plus another gay-themed movie, 'Brokeback Mountain' along with many other psyops films.

Why? Has General Electric gone progressive and begun encouraging men to love each other instead of bomb each other?
No.

These recent gay-themed films were financed and distributed as agit-prop meant to horrify and thus activate a homophobic demographic that happens to also vote Republican and is pro-war/anti-progressive. The timing of 'Milk' probably had a lot to do with activating a pro-Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage in California.
Astounding efforts have gone into keeping American culture macho and violent for national security justifications besides stirring up Republican/fundamendalist homophobes.

The name, 'Milk,' is too perfect for evoking a visceral image of...milky fluids...and sex both sells and repels.

Another strategic reason for the movie, 'Milk,' was that, with a black man in the White House, it was important to market competing associations with the meme
"black leader killed by government/police"
since the USG/CIA/FBI has a long history of doing just that - helping imprison Mandela, kill Lumumba, Malcolm X, Fred Hampton and other Black Panthers, and, notoriously,
MLK
which in print, especially online, is easily evoked subliminally by
"MiLK."

Harvey MiLK was shot by a policeman (Dan White), just like MLK who was shot by a Memphis Police Department sniper, possibly Earl Clark according to Lloyd Jowers back in the 1990s.
And there's another subliminal racial theme, too, the name of MiLK's assassin being "White," the kind of thematic coincidence spooks delight in exploiting to maximum effect.

Another decoy movie released by Rupert Murdoch's 20th Century Fox on 12/25/08 to kidz intended to redirect the dangerous meme "black leader killed by government/police" and for the same reason (Obama)... was 'Marley and Me,' about a cute white puppy dog, not Bob Marley who was shot by government thugs and rumored to have later died from CIA poisoning by DCI William Colby's son.

There's hardly a more distinct counter-association with a keyword than
'cute puppy' vs. 'murdered leader.'
This is the kind of combination of similarity/meme-reversal that makes interference theory work to the degree it does in lab tests and thus justify its deployment as counterpropaganda for the masses.

Thus the white of 'Milk' (ll/26/08) and 'Marley and Me' 12/26/08) both serve as well timed meme-reversals supporting interference theory affecting recall regarding assassinated black men.

Actors are cast for their names as mnemonic cues.
Jennifer Aniston, best known from the TV sit-com 'Friends,' starred in 'Marley and Me' for the same reason she's been saturating the magazine covers since Katrina - as a competing association with the racist firebombing of a Freedom Rider bus in Anniston, Alabama on May 14, 1961.

You know how place names become synonymous with events, like Dallas - Birmingham - Waco - OKCity, etc. ? The psyops goal is to prevent this from happening to "Anniston" and thereby compete with the noble success story of Rosa Parks on a bus which has much less horrific imagery.

So Jennifer Aniston has been thrust in our face at the supermarket checkout chute
Image
"Aniston = Friends"
to displace-
Image
"Anniston = Enemies"

Why now? Because American blacks are in cities seeing buses everyday, a civil rights cue due to Rosa Parks, and should not be reminded each time of that non-noble non-successful civil rights incident, especially after Katrina once again proved that they were expendable to the US government which let them suffer and die by the thousands.

The urban riots of the mid-60s scared the hell out of the USG which was losing in Vietnam during the Cold War and was being advised by Pentagon counterinsurgency experts that urban warfare could take hold in America's cities that would be even worse. So they recommended a domestic version of Operation Phoenix to decapitate social movements and prevent them from ever getting out of control again, for national security, you understand. The FBI did this with COINTELPRO and the CIA deployed Operation CHAOS. Military intelligence, alphabet agencies, and the Memphis Police department all pitched in to kill Martin Luther King who was uniting anti-war anti-poverty whites with pro-civil rights blacks.

So after the draft ended in 1973 along with the Vietnam War, redirecting poor minorities into the 'volunteer army' also became the new way of
> draining the 'urban swamps' while
>indoctrinating many minority alpha-males with nationalism and
> funneling the neuveau-middle-class blacks out into the suburbs
...a win-win-win for the Army Corps of Social Engineering.

But the repellent nature of the Cheney administration with massive disenfranchisement of black voters in 2000 and people who reminded us all of the KKK in the White House diminished black military recruiting significantly.

Now with Obama bringing Stevie Wonder (a safe association with the meme "blind black man" that displaces "Tuskegee experiment victim") into the White House repeatedly plus some nudging from CIA-Hollywood, this national security personnel deficit can be paid off with new blood.
Last edited by Hugh Manatee Wins on Sun May 24, 2009 12:43 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby sunny » Fri May 22, 2009 2:25 pm

RocketMan wrote:Oliver Stone should have made this when he still had balls.


Via Hollywood Elsewhere:

During a Lincoln Center/N.Y. Film festival discussion a little more than eight years ago, director Oliver Stone complained about conservative corporate thinking blocking the films he wanted to make. "Michael Eisner decides I can't make a movie about Martin Luther King, Jr [because] they'll be rioting at the gates of Disneyland!," he said. "That's bullshit! But that's what the new world order is."
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri May 22, 2009 11:58 pm

Eisner put the block on Oliver Stone's MLK movie because it would evoke his 'JFK' movie.

Steven CIA Spielberg's approach will be 'look how far we've come.
Now sign up for Obama's army.'

"Forget Katrina, electoral disenfranchisement, segregated America, higher black poverty and infant mortality rates, and those CIA-supplied drug gangs terrorizing cities."
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Postby Fresno_Layshaft » Sat May 23, 2009 12:46 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Eisner put the block on Oliver Stone's MLK movie because it would evoke his 'JFK' movie.

Steven CIA Spielberg's approach will be 'look how far we've come.
Now sign up for Obama's army.'

"Forget Katrina, electoral disenfranchisement, segregated America, higher black poverty and infant mortality rates, and those CIA-supplied drug gangs terrorizing cities."


What data do you have that suggests Hollywood Bio-Pics have any conceivable impact on army recruitment? Why the hell would anyone watch a movie about a pacifist and then go out and join the damn army? Do you think black people are stupid Hugh? Do you think they go see a movie and then totally forget the realities of being black in America? Why are you even talking about black people at all? When was the last time you had a meaningful conversation with a black person?
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Postby nathan28 » Sat May 23, 2009 1:33 am

Predictions and Observations:

the movie will suck

it will feature some trademark Spielberg special effects and gore

Troma puts out better movies than Spielberg

some French theorists are rolling in their graves over this (yes I just went from Troma to snotty Europeans, hope you are didn't burn the clutch)

not all special effects are bad (Alien, Blade Runner are cerebral; even Pirates of the Caribbean was enjoyable)

most of my favorite movies are political thrillers or horror movies from the early seventies (though Manchurian Candidate dates from '62)

the lead will studiously ape King's speech patterns because of "the burden owed to history" or some such line, when after the love letter that was W. what we need is another highly technical Todd Hayes incomprehensible surrealist masterwork to see given history as the sham ritual work it is

"Approaching spiritual death" will not appear in the film

culture studies undergrads will be kept busy for at least a week or two before going back to their wine spritzers

Fred Hampton's death will continue to go unmentioned by history books

HMWs hasn't even suggested that there's an active KWH and someone calls his surprisingly tempered comments "tedious" and "racist" (on edit: through the first two pages of the thread)

the military is one of the only racially integrated enterprises in the US

I haven't seen a good movie in a theater in a long, long time

I hope Mickey Rourke, alternating characters from The Wrestler and Angel Heart between scenes, plays King
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Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sat May 23, 2009 4:22 am

any Hollywood movie about MLK will be corrupted, will suck. It's fucking Hollywood. it's a given in all but rare cases. It's sad, it's a shame, but smart movies usually don't sell in the modern era.

but as far as this:

notoriously,
MLK
which in print, especially online, is easily evoked subliminally by
"MiLK."

Harvey MiLK was shot by a policeman (Dan White), just like MLK who was shot by a Memphis Police Department sniper, possibly Earl Clark according to Lloyd Jowers back in the 1990s.


The title of the movie couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Harvey Milk's last name was Milk. That wouldn't make any sense.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun May 24, 2009 12:54 am

I was pointing at the strategic timing of movies in the neurolinguistic context of politics.
Why is this concept so hard to grasp?
American culture is highly polarized and it is easy to placate one group while agitating another in plausibly deniable ways that seem noble and progressive.

Both Spielberg and Lucas have become reviled by many academics who examine their work. They are a team, buddies, co-conspirators with a long shared career history. Because they are spook elites who played a large role in re-militarizing post-Vietnam America.

So I think part of the reason for Spielberg's pawing of MLK for the USG is as pro-Spielberg/Lucas public relations that also transfers to the Lucas recruiting movie about the Tuskegee Airmen.

Both Katrina, internet info about the USG murder of MLK, and the huge drop in black military recruits warrant pulling out the big psyops guns, so to speak.
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Real US Navy recruiting ads from the 70s

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun May 24, 2009 3:40 am

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Disney is CIA for kidz!
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Chocolate Cloud City

Postby IanEye » Sun May 24, 2009 10:00 am

Image

[url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cloud_City]In 3 ABY, Cloud City was taken over by the Galactic Empire during the Galactic Civil War as part of a deal gone wrong. Calrissian had previously agreed to turn over a group of Rebels to the Empire, including Han Solo and Leia Organa, as part of bait for a trap for Jedi Luke Skywalker. However, Darth Vader modified the deal to the point where Calrissian felt he was no longer able to tolerate it.
[/url]

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Postby streeb » Sun May 24, 2009 2:28 pm

MLK movie in limbo as King siblings squabble

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- DreamWorks Studios will back out of plans to produce a movie about the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. unless King's three surviving children settle their differences over the deal, the studio said Wednesday.

A longtime friend of the three Kings predicted peace may be at hand for the squabbling siblings and that all of them want Steven Spielberg's studio to portray their father's life on the big screen.

The latest public rift between Dexter King, the chief executive of the King estate, and his brother and sister -- Martin Luther King III and Bernice King -- erupted Tuesday after it was made public that Dexter King, 48, had finalized the deal with DreamWorks.

Martin King, 51, and Bernice King, 46, learned that a deal had been struck when Dexter sent them an e-mail Tuesday morning, just as the news media was being told by the studio, a source close to the family told CNN.

Yolanda King, the eldest of the Kings' four children, died two years ago at age 51.

Martin King and Bernice King, who live in Atlanta, Georgia, had known that Dexter King, who lives in California, was negotiating with Spielberg on a possible movie deal, the source said.

Bernice King and Martin King said they knew nothing about the DreamWorks project. They said they embraced the idea of a film about their father but told CNN's "Larry King Live" they were concerned about the deal.

"I think Mr. Spielberg is a great producer and we look forward to hearing from him about the scope of this agreement," Bernice King said. "We know nothing about the scope of this agreement. We have no details to say whether or not this particular one is a good idea."

DreamWorks issued a statement Wednesday that suggested King family unity was essential for the movie to be made.

"The purpose of making a movie about the life of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is to tell a great story which could bridge distances and bring people together," the statement said. "We remain committed to pursuing a film chronicling Martin Luther King's life provided that there is unity in the family so we can make a film about unity in our nation."

DreamWorks executives appeared caught by surprise by the King family's infighting, although such squabbles are not new -- Martin King and Bernice King filed a lawsuit against Dexter King last year over publication of their mother's recently discovered love letters.

Martin King and Bernice King have complained in court filings that Dexter King has acted independently for years on estate business matters, refusing to call a family meeting.

Over the past year, angered over Dexter King's move to publish their mother's love letters, neither Martin King nor Bernice King has spoken to Dexter King, the source close to the family said.

Dexter King, in a written statement Wednesday evening, said he has "always upheld my duty" as CEO of the King estate to communicate with the others.

"Although my communication with family members has been somewhat stymied by the current litigation, I have continued to reach out and I remain committed to working together with my siblings on projects to educate people about the life, leadership and teachings of our father, Martin Luther King Jr.," Dexter King said.

DreamWorks is "a company with unrivaled resources for making epic films of the highest quality, offers an unprecedented opportunity for educating the largest possible audience about our father's legacy as the leader of America's greatest nonviolent movement," he said.

"Just as Sir Richard Attenborough's film, 'Gandhi,' educated many millions of people all over the world about the Mahatma's teachings, I believe this project can do the same regarding the life, work and teachings of Martin Luther King Jr., and I sincerely hope my brother and sister will join us in supporting this urgently needed project," Dexter King said.

Tom Houck, an Atlanta public relations agent who has known all three children since the 1960s, when he was their father's driver, suggested the dispute could be resolved.

"I don't think that either Martin or Bernice are opposed to having a megafilm done on the big screen by DreamWorks, but I think it's the mechanism and the way it was done that's got them upset," Houck said.

"They're feeling that, until they resolve some problems with Dexter, that they're not going to be very forthcoming in letting this project go forward," he said.

Houck suggested someone such as the Rev. Andrew Young, a close aide to the patriarch during the civil-rights movement, might be able to help the siblings reconcile. Young is a former Atlanta mayor and former U.N. ambassador.

"Martin and Bernice want to have some reconciliation with Dexter before they sign off on it," Houck said.

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Postby barracuda » Sun May 24, 2009 3:06 pm

"The purpose of making a movie about the life of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is to tell a great story which could bridge distances and bring people together," the statement said. "We remain committed to pursuing a film chronicling Martin Luther King's life provided that there is unity in the family so we can make a film about unity in our nation."

Just trying to count the number of lies in that brief statement is a daunting task. I'm up to seven at the moment, but the prospects for more seem quite good.
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