rigorousintuition.ca

Sorry if this comes off as a bit of rambling and incoherency I wrote it in a hurry.

I was recently talking to someone about the use of drugs for "brain change" or consciousness expansion. We discussed how goverment programs like Mk-ULTRA were used for behavior modification experiments, but I mentioned that under the right circumstances and by one's own will the use of drugs for behavior modification could be a good thing. She essentially responded by saying that it is inhuman to use something other than one's self to modify his/her behaviors. In other words use of a tool for the advancement of consciousness and/or behavior modification is "inhuman".

I was a bit struck by this statement. I really didn't want to argue with her though, so I just let it go. Which is fine.

I just really had a hard time grasping her logic. And by no means do I hold her logic against her. But to me, people like Timothy Leary, etc. promoted the use of psychedelics as a TOOL for behavior modification and consciousness expansion. I don't quite understand how use of a "tool" could be "inhuman". Does that make meditation techniques inhuman?

I don't know that there was any real reason for me to post this other than to vent my frustrations. Not that I was frustrated with this person, but with the thinking. Or maybe I'm wrong and she's right. You tell me.

Terence McKenna: Culture is Your Operating System

Terence McKenna on Entheogens

If we do it, it's human.

We have a long history of being a species that uses entheogens, and being hardwired for that use.

Like any other tool, it can work very well in some ways, and be destructive in other ways. I happen to prefer changing of consciousness and behavior to be done in whatever way leads to the highest good for the individual and those around them. I prefer slower methods, where the processes of making the desired changes are learned more thoroughly, and in such a way that they can be taught to others (both individuals and societies) who need it. But that's my own stylistic preference, and I'm pragmatic enough to use whatever method and timetable works best.

You are what you eat.

Does your friend eat?

Truth4Youth wrote:Sorry if this comes off as a bit of rambling and incoherency I wrote it in a hurry.

I was recently talking to someone about the use of drugs for "brain change" or consciousness expansion. We discussed how goverment programs like Mk-ULTRA were used for behavior modification experiments, but I mentioned that under the right circumstances and by one's own will the use of drugs for behavior modification could be a good thing. She essentially responded by saying that it is inhuman to use something other than one's self to modify his/her behaviors. In other words use of a tool for the advancement of consciousness and/or behavior modification is "inhuman".

I was a bit struck by this statement. I really didn't want to argue with her though, so I just let it go. Which is fine.

I just really had a hard time grasping her logic. And by no means do I hold her logic against her. But to me, people like Timothy Leary, etc. promoted the use of psychedelics as a TOOL for behavior modification and consciousness expansion. I don't quite understand how use of a "tool" could be "inhuman". Does that make meditation techniques inhuman?

I don't know that there was any real reason for me to post this other than to vent my frustrations. Not that I was frustrated with this person, but with the thinking. Or maybe I'm wrong and she's right. You tell me.

Have you read C.S. Lewis's "Abolition of Man"? Don't read the first two essays it's bundled with, they're mostly Lewis trying to justify his aesthetics. But the last essay is pretty simple, ultimately, and worth reading. It amounts to a defense of "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should."

When I was a little younger, I didn't understand that. Now I think I have a further grasp on it.

For example, Cat Cora, celebrity chef, is (or was?) pregnant with a child that is a combination of her girlfriend's DNA and some random sperm donor's. This isn't a South Park lesbians with a turkey-baster scenario. Actual reproductive surgery was involved, since it's impossible for a woman to be carrying a child that isn't hers.

And what you can see there is that, ultimately, the more powerful our tools get, the further they erode our image of human. I mean, that's cool, we're turning into cyborgs anyway, right? But you can clearly argue that said image is going to be socially constructed blah blah blah and while I can't totally disagree, part of me does have some concern about our straying from the eidos.

..

Now, w/r/t to drugs... that's different. "Life is hard. Coffee is wonderful." Humans aren't pefectly sealed vessels. We have to eat and we have to get pieces for our metabolism neurotransmitters from our external environment. Look at coca plants, e.g. They chew them in the Andes since the air is thin and cocaine increased the ability to consume oxygen. Hell, my cats have a problem with cat nip and valerian.

That doesn't mean a chemical utopia is possible. There isn't a perfect chemical balance. I know, I just mentioned the eidetic earlier. too bad.

Now, I think you mean hallucinogens.

They are great. Acid and ecstasy both have powerful therapuetic modalities when used properly. I would procede in that vein very carefully. Our personalities and neuroses are much more complicated than we think--you know how you're supposed to call the utility company before you dig? That sort of thing.

Drugs also have some very interesting other effects, but there is much to be said for doing something under your own power. Drugs are a short cut to what I'd call the "psychic powers", with the understanding that the effect fades in hours or days. I suspect some drugs have in their own way an intelligence or communication but have zero evidence.

--

That said, some people have used drugs for spiritual purposes and made some progress on them, catalyzing "the vision of tipareth" or "knowledge of the arising and passing away" but I don't know or know of anyone whose ever gone through a whole cycle with drugs alone, save those who mistake that dramatic experience for the end of the cycle (it's not). And with that said, for every person I know personally who's had eye-opening experiences on drugs, I know personally at least five times as many people who treat them as toys fit only for teenagers.

Graham Hancock had a recent C2C appearance in which he spoke very eloquently in defense of entheogens, addressing the very point your friend made. He did a great job stating his case, it's worth a listen.

I think one of the main points to consider is whether you are using a tool, or the reverse getting used up by the tool, or otherwise living in a state of mind through the use or abuse of a tool that renders your life unmanageable, which can cause great pain and sorrow, which would of course require more mushrooms to obliterate your your misery.

Eating a few red capped mushrooms could elevate your mind to a space that allows your SOBER MIND to function in a wider capacity which could give you more options in your life.

Having a few sober days between chronic binges of red capped mushrooms could and probably would render your life unmanageable, cause you permanent damage, and make you very unhappy in the wider score of happiness.

I think your friend speaks from a position of ignorance. I do not use ignorance as a slander, or to mean stupidity. Stupidity and ignorance have different definitions.

Ignorance to mean: "unaware, does not have experience with"....



nathan28 wrote:

you know how you're supposed to call the utility company before you dig? That sort of thing.


Dude that was priceless to me for some reason, especially in this context. I loved that........"touche"

Seamus OBlimey wrote:You are what you eat.

Does your friend eat?

Seamus, you are dead (so to speak) on.

I have long struggled with health problems resulting from eating far too much processed crap. About three months ago, I went on a "Juice Feast" whereby I get 12-1500 calories from green and fruit juices. Im just eating foods again now. The effects have been stunning. Ive lost 50 lbs, colitis is non-existent, joints are painfree, edema has disappeared, brain fog has cleared, etc. At 44, I feel like Im in my twenties - I exercise at least an hour and I feel like I could just keep going.

I was watching Sesame St with my nephew, and they had a storyline where Elmo HAD to run around the neighborhood. They then preached at teh kiddies that they really should get off the couch and go running too. It just smacked me in the face that, with what I was eating, no one needed to tell me to move my 44yr old (and still heavy) ass. And yet, if I had been eating crap, no pleading (from Elmo or anyone else) could have motivated me to move.

I always knew that the crap had a detrimental effect, but I never would have imagined it would be so profound. And if someone were to propose that eating clean would snap the masses out of their reverie, I wouldnt dismiss that thesis......

nathan28 wrote:For example, Cat Cora, celebrity chef, is (or was?) pregnant with a child that is a combination of her girlfriend's DNA and some random sperm donor's. This isn't a South Park lesbians with a turkey-baster scenario. Actual reproductive surgery was involved, since it's impossible for a woman to be carrying a child that isn't hers.

Cat Cora and her WIFE used in vitro fertilization like 18 gazillion straight couples (plenty of whom employ eggs from other women) before them. Why call out the lesbians (South Park or otherwise), hmm?