Wombaticus Rex wrote:Agreed.
Honestly, I'm just really surprised to find so much consideration / trepidation on this forum about laws that barely ever get enforced and hold no moral weight by any rational standards of "crime" and transgression. Fuck a copyright, and fuck anyone who thinks their personal sitcom trumps the core imperative: Information Wants To Be Free.
I have no ill will towards DE -- quite the opposite, really -- but his "wishes" are utterly besides the point to me. There is an important document that needs to be retrieved and re-distributed here...that's all.
I don't care about copyrights, it's just that he has a complicated history with this board and I don't feel like getting tied up in that. Anyway, the interview:
In 1953, young Jack Sarfatti received an unusual phone call. The voice on the other end claimed to be a computer in an orbiting spacecraft. Sarfatti, in some way, was important to them and he was asked if he would join them. Sarfatti, scared half to death, nevertheless said, “yes” though when he went to the landing to await their ship, his new friends never arrived.
Much of what I have written about, maybe all of it, depends very much on who was on the other end of that phone that day. What follows in the next few posts is a look at Jack Sarfatti’s book Destiny Matrix, a cut-up sort of affair that references an awful lot of names and events that are familiar to readers of Dream’s End, and, in fact, to readers of Wit of the Staircase.
I am not claiming Sarfatti is involved in any argishness…when I asked him outright he replied that he is too busy and has no time for alternate reality on the internet. But his theories and experiences underlie much of the mythology that is at the core of the storyline Joseph Matheny and others continue to offer the world via their arg-like constructs for whatever reason. Indeed, a friend of Sarfatti’s, a physicist named Nick Herbert, was involved in Ong’s Hat and appeared in that storyline as a character as well.
I will begin with recounting a brief email exchange with Sarfatti. His answers are somewhat terse and left me wanting more, but his advice was that I read his book Destiny Matrix which I have now also done.
The book is difficult to read, and I don’t just mean the physics part. Many different people contributed to it and it is not always easy to tell when it is Jack Sarfatti talking or one of the other writers.
Nevertheless, what you will find is someone involved in high level, cutting edge physics who attracted the attention of our military/intelligence community at a fairly early age. Sarfatti is okay with this and believes most of the intelligence agency contact he has had has been with people trying to protect the world from dark forces. Even the intelligence community’s involvement in the occult and paranormal studies is to be desired, thinks Sarfatti, because the bad guys (Islamo-fascists, Nazi occultists etc) are doing the same.
To me, though, I see another narrative, not necessarily completely at odds with his own interpretation, but one that to me smacks of manipulation, indoctrination and deceit. Well, that is the world of spies, after all, but does Sarfatti know who the good guys and bad guys really are? Do we? Is it even possible to tell anymore?
Here now is a transcript of my email conversation with him. I have only edited out redundancies and have done nothing to change the content. Please note that Sarfatti was writing quick responses to me, not writing for purposes of publication, though he gave me permission to reprint this exchange.
you are recounting a conversation with Brendan O. Regan. You tell him about the computer voice. He replies he has heard of hundreds of such cases which is hyperlinked to a now defunct link at Brother Blue on Kit Green. So I am curious what Green has to do with the computers calling teenage boys and who else is on that list. (note: Brother Blue has a new website but that story will have to wait for another time.)
JS: part the CIA? recorded meeting is onlinehttp://qedcorp.com/APS/1973SRI.mp3
i tell the story then summer 1973
(I did not understand this reply or what the tape was. I asked for clarification.)
JS: You need to read my book Destiny Matrix
story is complex – everything explained there
i tell story of the 1953 contact, did you listen to the tape yet?http://stardrive.org/cartoon/spectra.html
i am ccing to Sirag who can also explain
also Hank Harrison in similar program same time in Berkeley
(Sirag then gave me this summary, which I will include here)
SPS: The Yutube recording at http://gedcorp.com/APS/1973SRI.mp3
was apparently made from the CD I sent Jack a few years ago. That CD was a faithful copy of the original tape made in 1973 during the meeting in which Jack met Russell Targ, Hal Puthoff, Dean Brown, Lee Sanella, and Frieda Morris. He was taken to this meeting by Brendan O’Regan from SRI. The meeting had been called by Jacques Vallee, who was not present. Jack believes that this meeting was a fulfillment of the promise made during his famous phone call in 1953 that he would meet the “others” in 20 years.
DE: The computer calling could be something earthly, a sort of manipulation to get a talented young man pointed in a desirable direction. Since you ended up in a program with Walter Breen which seemed to have some connection to Sandia, any thoughts that you were recruited in a way for earthly (military) purposes? (Walter Breen ran some sort of gifted program Sarfatti was invited to participate in. Sandia, a weapons manufacturer, sent representatives to lecture the kids
at one point.)
JS: Sure, but the weird thing is the 1953 prediction of what would happen in 1973http://stardrive.org/cartoon/spectra.html
DE: I know your story to some extent. I am not quite as impressed by the predictions. It read to me the same as a basketball scout telling a junior high player he will be playing with the greats one day. Not at all attempting flattery here, just assuming your intelligence was obvious…
JS: no, you miss the point. He said I would begin to link up with the others in “20 years” – that’s 1973 – the SRI contact
what’s important is the number 20 years
also you do not realize the bizarre circumstances of how I got to SRI in 1973 – it’s in my book Destiny Matrix
DE: I have this vague idea that across the country were special schools which not only recruited intelligent people such as yourself but had some indoctrination purposes as well.
JS: Yes. This was McCarthy era.
DE: The program with Breen sounded like such a program.
JS: Yes, no question of that – people from Sandia came up ~ 1955
DE: You have a scifi writer with impressionable young boys ( I will take it that there (are) no hidden memories here and no abuse occurred in your school despite Breen’s history)…(note, Walter Breen was a known pedophile in scifi circles and eventually ended up in prison.)
JS: no abuse at all
DE: and (there were) lectures on patriotism from a military contractor. What else did you do in that program?
JS: It was like X-men
tests on us for psychic
also discussions of art, philosophy, math, physics, Ayn Rand, alien intelligence
DE: I thought I read somewhere that if (possible scenario in which the voice was primarily an intel recruitment ploy) were the case, Puharich
might have had something to do with it. Do I remember correctly?
JS: Quite likely.
DE: So in that case (Sarfatti had described having hung out on military bases and that this may have been the reason Breen recruited him into the special school), clearly there is human agency in steering your career path, despite the strange intervention of the voices from the spaceship.
JS: the “space ship computer voice” incident was months before recruitment into Breen’s group by the late Robert Bashlow.
DE: To me it sounded like you were simply hypnotized in some fashion and triggered back into trance state when you got these calls (if your mother’s memory was accurate and you received several such calls). That sound at all plausible?
JS: I remember only one call. My mother remembered “three weeks” of calls lasting many hours. She heard the metallic voice on phone.
ran a program for kids
at least one summer. Hypnosis was involved and the little I have heard about it many of the young subjects started channeling aliens or something. This sounded exploitive and unethical…but I have never read any details. You know anything about that?
JS: I was with Puharich
1974. Good chance he knew Breen I should have asked.
The link would be Puharich
, Eugene Mc Dermott, Arthur Young, William? Sheldon (Columbia U) —> Walter Breen
possibly also L. Ron Hubbard
i am in it also
DE: Can you clarify this? The question was about Puharich
’s Space Kids
or whatever it was called. Are you saying all of these others were directly connected to that, or engaged in similar activities or engaged in similar activities but part of the same program?
JS: Yes. Also Ira Einhorn deeply involved with Arthur Young – but in 70’s not 50’s.
DE: In general, what is your impression of Puharich
? He had to hypnotize the channelers of the 9 and had some apparent research interests in novel means of voice transmission. Do you think this discredits The Nine? Puharich
JS: The Nine original Templar Knights from my ancestor’s city Troyes, France? (Sarfatti has a forebear who figures in Templar history)
I have Nine Higgs scalar fields that create the universehttp://arxiv.org/abs/0902.0032
DE: I meant, of course, the nine entities channeled by various people under Puharich
’s direction and hypnosis (and possibly little transmitters or something?)
JS: I have no opinion, no first hand experience with those events. Puharich
did invent tooth transmitter.
DE: In general, I always wonder at the lack of alarm that some paranormal researchers have about the intersection of that world with military/intel circles. (Kit) Green is a great example. Are you bothered by that?
JS: No, not at all. That’s how it should be. Paranormal abilities are the ultimate Super Weapon for world enslavement if in the hands of Evil Ones e.g. the Islamofascists today spawn of the Occult Nazi Party (Thule, Vril …) See the Grand Mufti & Hitler relationship.
DE: Yet your answers at least suggest that these folks may have been engaging in unethical practices with young people (I certainly might be misreading you.) You even had Hubbard in that mix, whose Sea Org was pretty abusive of young people in his “Messenger Corps”.
JS: I was never subjected to any such practices. No one in the group was either. Our mission was to develop super-normal super-intelligent powers, to figure out how UFOs flew and to make great discoveries in physics.
DE: My alarm was not so much at military intel types getting the paranormal jump on putative bad guys, but what looks like the infiltration and use of occult groups and paranormal research as a means to different ends, be it spying or manipulation.
JS: Yes, that has been going since the beginning of history however. That’s certainly a big part of it – as it should be.
DE: Do you see any of that or do you ascribe positive motives to the work of Green and Puharich
and the like? Does this excuse, for example, Green’s friendship with disinfoteer Richard Doty?
JS: I do not have any details about that. Green was/is CIA and is a patriot. I do not have details on his official activities re: national security.
(What follows are a few more questions in a more recent exchange. )
DE: On the tape, unless I missed it, I did not hear you say anything about the 20 years later prophecy. Was that a continuous memory or did you recall that later on?
JS: continuous memory, I thought I did mention it then when we started discussing the whole topic on the tape – I mean that was the context, but maybe not. PS Elizabeth Rauscher got a paper from me from Trieste in which the idea of time travel comes up and Saul-Paul used it in an opera actually performed in Berkeley.
DE: Secondly I found it interesting that you were discussing the idea of time travel as a mechanism of contact from our or someone’s future in the context of general relativity.
JS: Yes, because of the prediction from the metallic computer voice I would meet the others in 20 yearshttp://stardrive.org/cartoon/spectra.html
DE: Yet now your interest is the possibility of mutual influence past and future via quantum interaction of some kind (I get the illustrations…the math I will have to trust you on.)
JS: right see John Cramer’s webpages and the book Star Wave by Fred Alan Wolf.
DE: So this suggests to me that the primary idea your experience may have primed you for was the idea of communication of some kind or interaction of some kind from future to past. It seems like your work has been sorting out the mechanism for this.
JS: That’s exactly right. You got it.
DE: Targ and Puthoff (at SRI who studied Geller and were behind the Remote Viewing program) were scientologists (correction, Targ was Not a Scientologist)….did you see any relation between Scientology and what was going on at SRI? Ingo Swann was also a Scientologist…Pat Price may have been, I don’t remember. Swann once claimed, if I recall, over a dozen SRI folks were Scientologists.
JS: Werner Erhard who funded us in 1974 got his est from Scientology maybe from L Ron himself or was it DiSilva Mind Control?
L Ron also name of ET at Area 51 or was it Wright Pat & it was L Rod? close enough
Ask Hal & Russ directly they are bcc’d. I do not want to put words in their mouth. Pat Price came to SRI because of CIA Chief of Station the late Harold Chipmanhttp://www.stardrive.org/chip/ChipmanFile.pdf
Hal Puthoff disputes that, but Chip told it to me directly and to Bob Jones and others at Henry Dakin’s at a talk given by Russell Targ in mid-80’s.
DE: I also am reminded of your own comment connecting (possibly) L. Ron Hubbard to the chain of others like Puharich
and Young in some way I was not clear about. Specifically:
The link would be Puharich, Eugene Mc Dermott, Arthur Young, William? Sheldon (Columbia U) —> Walter Breen possibly also L. Ron Hubbard
JS: who was Jack Parson’s room mate and partner of Frank Malina. I met Frank Malina in Paris via Carlo Suares. Small world. Plenty of room at the bottom (Feynman), but it’s crowded at the top!
DE: Sarfatti then included the following, reminding us of his connection to Robert Anton Wilson. Wilson’s driver, for a time, was a young man named Joseph Matheny.
JS: The “fringe” physicists Jack Sarfatti
and Saul-Paul Sirag are prominently featured in this book. Wilson describes Sarfatti’s early intuitions about “signal nonlocality” (see current papers of Antony Valentini http://eprintweb.org/S/authors/All/va/Valentini
) i.e. “information transfer without energy transfer”.
DE: The context of your comment was a question about Puharich
’s “space kids
” program or whatever it was called in which he engaged in hypnosis and had the kids
convinced they were in touch with alien intelligences.
JS: I only met Puharich
in 1974. Walter Breen did not use hypnosis on us Space Kids
1953 – 56.
DE: Still confused about this. How is Hubbard connected possibly?
JS: Hubbard connected to Arthur Young – major player.
DE: Any comment about relationship between Scientology and SRI?
JS: No direct knowledge. I only know about est & Esalen as arenas for Cold War Games.
As MI6 or 5? Dennis Bardens told me in Cambridge 1974 when I met Josephson & Carr et-al
I was “in the thick of it”.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/26 ... is_Bardens