shooting at DC Holocaust museum

[barracuda]

Wait... what? That's awesome.

[AlicetheKurious]

Whatever you think of his comments, This is the reason he made them in Cairo.



He wasn't speaking to Alex Jones and Richard Gage.

Jeff, no offense buddy, but you're sounding pretty wacky yourself.

As for the chart, as I've demonstrated on another thread (here and here and here and here, there's more than enough evidence of means, motive and opportunity to consider a group of Likudnik zionists very closely associated with Ariel Sharon and the Mossad ("Israel" in short-hand) at the very top of the list of logical suspects.

If you have your own reasons for pretending that evidence doesn't exist, that's your business, but then you really shouldn't be implying that whoever doesn't go along with that is motivated by "anti-semitism".

Especially while you're busy defaming an entire people (Egyptians), based on far less solid evidence.

[Jeff]

Whatever you think of his comments

[American Dream]

AlicetheKurious wrote:

Yes, Jeff, you are so right. Robert Fisk sure has our number -- we Arabs just sit around all day and read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's a very important book to us, which is why we are such anti-semites. According to Fisk (though he doesn't understand Arabic and often makes huge mistakes in his articles about the Arab world as a result) and the poor, maligned neocons, there was a whole series all about it! They're all such experts, who could doubt their word? Fisk is never wrong, and when his account conflicts with that of Egyptians who actually SAW the series or who WROTE the series, well, we know who to believe. Right?

Alice, I'm confused about what you're saying here. You may or may not be denying that such a TV series was produced and aired in Egypt, that it took the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion as literally true and/or that you consider it 'anti-Semitic". That's the best I can glean from your comments above, which avoid saying anything clear and substantive about the topic, while at the same time adopting a tone which, besides being caustic, also implies that you are very well-informed on this topic.

So if you are not denying that a series on the Protocols was aired on Egyptian TV, then what exactly are you asserting about this series?

[DoYouEverWonder]

Whatever you think of his comments, This is the reason he made them in Cairo.



He wasn't speaking to Alex Jones and Richard Gage.

I love polls that always give the PTB's the answers they want. Like the ones that use to tell us George Bush had an 80% approval rating.

[Jeff]

I love polls that always give the PTB's the answers they want. Like the ones that use to tell us George Bush had an 80% approval rating.

Do you really have such high regard for popular opinion that you doubt Bush commanded insane approval ratings in the immediate aftermath of 9/11?

Maybe you've never used the term "sheeple."

[Sweejak]

I don't know what the Protocols TV show investigated, but yes, people do actually investigate and research the Protocols.

Here is a brief paper on some recent research.

http://ngc.dukejournals.org/cgi/reprint/35/1_103/83

[Jeff]

I don't know what the Protocols TV show investigated, but yes, people do actually investigate and research the Protocols.

Here is a brief paper on some recent research.

http://ngc.dukejournals.org/cgi/reprint/35/1_103/83

Academic studies are one thing, polemical soap operas another.

[Sweejak]

Al Ahram says the series only mentions the Protocols in passing. True?

The show reviews the history of Arab struggle against imperialism, from Ottoman rule to British occupation. It tackles the Balfour Declaration and the role of imperialism in planting Israel in the region, together with the Jewish assault on the rights of the Palestinian people. The show only mentions The Protocols in passing.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/612/op4.htm

Fisk says the Protocols were forged by the Tsarist Secret Police, Hagemeister says, basically, "not so fast."

Well, I'm derailing the thread. Protocol info is for those who brought them up and for those who are cocksure of either the myth or counter-myth.

[Jeff]

Fisk says the Protocols were forged by the Tsarist Secret Police, Hagemeister says, basically, "not so fast."

Hagemeister is an academic, not a journalist. That's essentially that's what distinguishes them on the Protocols. Both hold the document to be a forgery.

But agreed, we're ranging rather far from the topic.

[Sweejak]

I'll be happy to set it aside, but I want to note that the main actor in the series also says they are faked, or forged.

I'm more interested in the series and the characterization of the 30 part series. Quite a bit of diplomatic pressure was put on the Egyptians to not show it.

[Jeff]

I'm more interested in the series and the characterization of the 30 part series.

A Knight on the Wrong Battlefield - Ali Asadullah

Knight without a Horse: The Lesson is Over Stupid! - Mohamed Mosaad

[professorpan]

The Israeli-can-do-no-wrong crowd is already starting to milk this for all it's worth.

Just made the mistake of cruising past CNN.

"Help! We're being oppressed!"

Yeah, you and a million other people. Oh, including the Palestinians, big time, by YOU.

I mean, it's a bad thing, but I hate to see a militant group use it to justify their own violence against others.

You're mixing up things here. This racist murder has *nothing* to do with the Palestinians or the Israeli government except for you bringing it into the discussion.

Anti-Semitism, of the "Jews are evil vermin that must be exterminated" flavor, is alive and well, as we see from yesterday's murder. Jews and Jewish organizations have a responsibility to point out the existence of this ugly mind virus to arrest its spread.

You characterized Jews or Jewish organizations as saying "Help! We're being oppressed!" So tell me -- when you cruised past CNN, did anyone actually say that Jews were being "oppressed" or is that your word choice? I can't remember ever hearing/reading/seeing any Jew or Jewish organization claiming they were oppressed. Targets of racist nutjobs? Certainly. Scapegoats in a very old strain of hatred? Absolutely.

Pointing out anti-Semitism does not require a caveat about Jewish oppression of Palestinians. All Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government's crimes against the Palestinians, but all Jews are targets for violent anti-Semites. Please don't mix up the two issues.

And all Jews are not part of a "militant group." Really, I can't believe that ridiculous stereotyping didn't catch more flack. What's next -- blacks are a "lazy group?"

Please. Your comment is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about. You can't say anything without being instantly categorized into some group that the commentor doesn't like.

The thing I like about this site is you can usually avoid that categorization bullshit here.

Read my lips -- I don't like racists, I don't like bullies, I don't like control freaks, I don't like violence, I don't exploitation of tragedies to further one's political ends, I don't like strawmen, I don't like judgmental tendencies, I don't like lumping people together into different categories because it makes my life more convenient and makes it easier to demonize those with whom I disagree.

What more do you want me to says I don't like?

I don't really give a shit what nationality or religion or race ANY individual is.

I care about their actions, and I care about how they group together to commit crimes against other groups. I care about how they lie, how they manipulate, and how they cheat and steal.

Most of the crimes I'm aware of from the last eight years or so were committed by White Christian Men. Now who is gonna get all jumpy about me "hating Christians" or "hating men" or "hating white people?"

C'mon, go ahead. I'm waiting for those charges .....

But if somebody is Jewish, OMIFUCKINGGOD that means I might be a fucking neo-nazi racist who thinks that all Jewish people are vermin and should be exterminated from the face of the earth.

Wrong.

Don't you think it's time to end that ubersensitivity? Especially when that sensitivity is used as an EXCUSE to murder other people, steal their land, commit all manners of atrocities?

The ubsersensitivity isn't even real any more, it's used as a tool to manipulate and cajole and bully people. Which, hm, let me check my list, are things I don't like.

And the whole "help we're being oppressed" thing is a line from Monty Python which I just assumed everybody was familiar with. If not, well, I apologize for it coming across as something else. It's a joke.

But if you're happy with the unfair advantage Israel has in the United States, so be it. But it's a bizarre thing, it makes no fucking sense, and it's just plain wrong.

And let's face it, this whole thing is indeed getting played up far more than the other acts of terrorism lately. Why? Because it was at the Holocaust museum and was done by a neo-nazi jew-hater. Is that any more wrong than the Muslim who killed the Army recruiters, or the guy who killed the abortion doctor? They're all EQUALLY heinous.

Thanks for not answering my questions to you. You made claims, I asked about them, and you turn around and accuse me of categorizing you. If you care to go back and answer I'd appreciate it. If not, I'll let your initial comments speak for themselves.

On edit:

Where/how did you see the "Israeli [sic] can do no wrong" crowd milking the von Brunn shooting? How, precisely, were they "milking" it?

The "Help! We're oppressed!" you've now revealed as a joke, but what led you to suggest that some Jews/Israelis were using the von Brunn shooting to point out Jewish repression?

And what "militant group" was using the shooting to justify its own violence against others?

Because honestly, I think you just made that shit up.

And I am not in any way accusing you of racism, or anti-Semitism, and I take your word that you are not biased against any particular group of people. But I think you are being disingenuous with the aim of making a point.

[Sweejak]

I'm more interested in the series and the characterization of the 30 part series.

A Knight on the Wrong Battlefield - Ali Asadullah

Knight without a Horse: The Lesson is Over Stupid! - Mohamed Mosaad

http://www.counterpunch.org/heard1113.html

[Jeff]

That's a good piece by Linda Heard, though on this -

Given that The Protocols are these days recognised as forgeries by everyone

- she's incorrect. To return to the subject of James von Brunn.