JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby Joao » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:05 pm

smiths » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:19 pm wrote:the secret service stand down video did it for me, once i had seen that i never again gave serious thought to Mafia, Russian, Cubans, Lone Gunmans in any way except as aspects of Team Patsy

Interesting; I've never found that video particularly compelling or damning in and of itself.



Maybe if I could review specific SS procedure and protocols of the time, but without those who's to say it wasn't just a clueless agent. Aren't they notorious party animals? The guy could've just been hungover and forgetful of procedure. (Sure it's suspicious, but I just find it insufficient.)

(I have similar feelings about Mineta's testimony that Cheney barked "Of course the orders still stand" on 9/11.)

For me, the proof of Deep State responsibility for JFK is the absurd lengths to which mainstream media goes in order to deny and ridicule any possibility of conspiracy. "Lone gunman" is going down in the history books, even. No way could mafia et al. pull that off for 50 years running.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby smiths » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:57 pm

the agent cant believe it, he has his arms outstretched in a repeated motion of utter disbelief,

they knew Dallas was dangerous, to take the agents off the car against protocol in the minutes before the assassination defies any other explanation
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby Joao » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:16 pm

Or a delinquent good old boy, embarrassed to have slipped up yet again in front of his SS frat bros. Especially after he couldn't get it up at last night's team-building brothel visit.

Of course I see your perspective and acknowledge it as quite plausible.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:28 am

For me, the layers of this rotten cake are Oswald's self-evident if apparently failed career as an intelligence operative, the Warren Commission's laughable attempt to completely suppress any hint of it, and the fact that a mafia goon felt compelled to sacrifice himself to assassinate Oswald on live TV. In a society of thinkers the myth-building would have been cut short right there. The icing on the cake is Dulles of all people taking over the Commission's work. CE-399 certainly helps, even if Z-313 is not as conclusive as everyone wants it to be. Six doctors pointing to the back of their heads when describing the exit wound is pretty impressive. Ruby yelling out a correction on the confusion between Free Cuba and Fair Play for Cuba during the Oswald press conference is also good. Damn, those were different times. They had an Oswald press conference!
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby Joao » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:44 am

Those aren't good reasons. Sounds to me like you're distraught over the tragic death of a beloved idol, and have no choice but to invent fantasies to cope with it.

I'm not into the green text convention.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:44 am

Joao » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:44 am wrote:I'm not into the green text convention.


I'm not either. But you almost got me. I have adopted smilies, however. :eeyaa :clown :angelwings:
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby Forgetting2 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:31 am

JackRiddler » 21 Oct 2013 22:28 wrote: Damn, those were different times. They had an Oswald press conference!


So obvious, but something I never thought about. Well, now I have something new to think about.
You know what you finally say, what everybody finally says, no matter what? I'm hungry. I'm hungry, Rich. I'm fuckin' starved. -- Cutter's Way
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby KUAN » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:56 pm

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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby cptmarginal » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:55 am

Forgetting2 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:31 am wrote:
JackRiddler » 21 Oct 2013 22:28 wrote: Damn, those were different times. They had an Oswald press conference!


So obvious, but something I never thought about. Well, now I have something new to think about.


I just came across this, might as well post it on this thread. The "extra impact" deal is classic.

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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby H_C_E » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:45 pm

It's not plausible that the Secret Service was solely responsible
in the assassination. Assuming that's what Smiths was saying.

It's almost impossible to separate who and who wasn't involved.
Everyone was so intertwined, Mafia, CIA, extreme Right Wingers,
FBI, Industry, military etc. And evidence of anyone, and everyone's
complicity can be found if enough time is spent digging through the
much. But as I tried (poorly) to express in another thread, that's *NOT*
the point. Virtually all the self styled, so-called "researchers" have
been successfully compromised by being led down the Minutiae Road.

This keeps a court case from ever being brought to conclusively prove
Oswald's innocence, and thus, show the public that they have in fact
been lied to, that Officialdom has perpetrated an outright lie for 50 years.
Once this idea had been successfully planted in the public mind, then
it could make the MLK verdict from the 90's more meaningful, follow this
with the developing evidence in the RFK murder, Kent State, Malcolm X
etc.

If all the interested parties could/would organize their collective efforts
to this end, then follow that trail through to Iran/Contra, BCCI, and finally to
9-11, perhaps it would get enough people awake and angry enough to begin to
take some real action.

But this is a pipe dream, and will never happen. It's far too improbable. And
even if it were feasible, one couldn't get the JFK assassination research
community to quit focusing on the unprovable minutiae in order to deal with
what could be effectively used in a court of law to prove Oswald innocent.

And by the by, there was, and might still be, a small group of individuals,
including the necessary legal muscle who were discussing what could be done
to bring a case to court to do just what I've described. There were jurisdictional issues,
among other hurdles, but most seemed to believe there was a way.

Lastly, I'm not the first to criticize the "research community" Harry Livingstone
has been saying these things for decades. I suspect it part of the reason he's
been vilified by the so-called researchers for the last 20+ years.
Abdul, wax the beach with postal regret portions. Nevermind the o-ring leader he got not the cheese duster from the dachshund dimension or even pillow frighteners.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby fruhmenschen » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:22 pm

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/busine ... 920614.php


UVA PROFESSOR: We Cannot Rule Out A Conspiracy To Kill John F. Kennedy
http://www.sfgate.com/technology/busine ... 920614.php
Wednesday, October 23, 2013





JFK
It's not just crackpots who question the conventional wisdom that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he killed President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963.
University of Virginia professor Larry Sabato, author of "The Kennedy Half-Century: The Presidency, Assassination, and Lasting Legacy of John F. Kennedy" argues that "the chance of some sort of conspiracy involving Oswald is not insubstantial."
Sabato reached this conclusion after considering 50 years of evidence, even while also debunking a conspiracy theory put forth by a House committee in 1979.
"For all attempts to close the case as 'just Oswald,' fair-minded observers continue to be troubled by many aspects of eyewitness testimony and paper trails," he writes.
The founder of the UVA Center for Politics opened this never-ending debate "because the assassination is critical both to understanding America's past and future paths and to the lasting legacy of John Kennedy that is the subject of this book."
Alternative theories cannot be put to rest because of discrepancies and inadequacies in the initial response to the assassination.
To start, there are the questions about why the autopsy was performed at the Bethesda Naval Medical Center in Maryland, not in Texas as required by the law, and why the Bethesda team did not confer with doctors from the Texas trauma room and did not have the president's clothes.
"[The autopsy] opens it up to conspiracy theories immediately that the body was altered, the wounds were altered, and all the rest of it," Sabato told us. "I understand why they couldn't leave the body there but it would have been so much better if it had been performed in Dallas."
More questions arise with the investigation ordered by President Lyndon Johnson, which Sabato claims was haphazard and inadequate.
"The problem is the Warren Commission did not do a thorough job when the trail was hot," Sabato told Business Insider. "The trail went cold decades ago. It is virtually impossible 50 years later to put all of the pieces back together. I've interviewed people 50 years later that the Warren Commission never interviewed that were right there and took important photos or films."
Because of these errors, certain conspiracy theories may never be put to rest.
JFK
The conspiracy theories
While all evidence suggests that Oswald killed Kennedy, some clues suggests that he may not have been the only assassin or that he may not have acted alone.
First, there remains "the live possibility of a second gunman in the grassy knoll area," given the testimony of several witnesses, the presence of phony Secret Service agents, and the armed men seen in the vicinity of the Dealey plaza before, during, and after the assassination.
Adding to this theory is Dr. Robert McClelland, a physician in the trauma room of the hospital where JFK was taken, who contends that the wound he saw was consistent with a shot from the grassy knoll. Sabato notes that the "ambiguous nature of the visual evidence" has led to experts to disagree as to whether the bullet that entered JFK's head came from the rear (where Oswald was) or the front (the grassy knoll).
As for the idea that Oswald received help or encouragement, there is no proof that he did, but there also is no proof that he didn't — and there are reasons to be suspicious.
"For a complete nobody, Oswald certainly did seem to hang out with well-connected people," Sabato told BI.
Some of those shady connections include:
Upon returning from his short defection to the Soviet Union, Oswald became friends with an international man of mystery named George de Mohrenschildt, who "had ties with American intelligence and the State Department ... and killed himself before he could testify to the House Committee on Assassinations," Sabato said.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby freemason9 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:33 pm

It would seem that skull fragments, once assembled, would provide a clear answer regarding the directional source of the gun shot. Why isn't this ever discussed?
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby Elvis » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:11 pm

H_C_E » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:45 am wrote:Everyone was so intertwined, Mafia, CIA, extreme Right Wingers,
FBI, Industry, military etc.


Well said there. I see the conspiracy woven through and among all of those already-overlapping groups (plus 'the Cubans'). And let's remember that the CIA (more or less a chief suspect*) is known to place assets in places like the Secret Service. And that intelligence is compartmentalized; many minor participants played one small part, had just one thing to do, with no idea of its real purpose. It takes a few people in the right places.


* If you ask me, E. Howard Hunt's fingerprints are all over this thing. So much of the clever bits are just so "E. Howard Hunt." Plus the "three hobos": that's got to be him in the hat.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby H_C_E » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:33 pm

Who knows, maybe you're right about Hunt. But it also has traces of David Atlee Phillips
all over it too. But I don't buy that Hunt was one of the tramps.

The CIA had a plants everywhere, in the Mob, the Cubans, and many in the Company
were already hard right wing, so the connection to John Birch, States Rights etc, is easy to
see, no infiltration required.

But I really don't care. I think this sort of speculation is a dead end in terms of anything productive.
JFK research, and researchers is nothing more than conspiratainment. The gang over at Deep Politics,
the Education Forum etc are just yanking their own chains endlessly. All the while nothing meaningful
is being done except for a very small, mostly anonymous group. But think of all that wasted manpower
forever debating where the shots came from, how many etc. What could be done if everyone involved
quit wasting time on the extraneous garbage and pulled together enough factual data to prove Oswald's
innocence of the crime he's been charged with (as opposed to mere possible involvement)

We can easily demonstrate CIA involvement, that's all the people need to know about who.
At least for now. Other than that, what's most important is to eliminate any facsimile of reasonable
doubt from the public mind so shitbags like Bugliosi, O'Reilly, Posner etc, can't continue to promulgate
the disinformation campaign that tells us that the Warren Commission was telling the truth and that
questioning the official story is the province of mentally unstable.
Abdul, wax the beach with postal regret portions. Nevermind the o-ring leader he got not the cheese duster from the dachshund dimension or even pillow frighteners.
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Re: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:41 pm

It's not just crackpots who question the conventional wisdom that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he killed President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963.


But it is mostly careerists who would automatically give the status of "conventional wisdom" to an opinion that, though hegemonic in the discourse of polite society, is in the clear minority in both the U.S. and the world (among people over the age of 40, while those under 40 tend not to have any opinion). I mean, "conventional wisdom" is not a positive assessment in my book; but if the vast majority thinks otherwise, how the fuck is it conventional?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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