JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters

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Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:57 am

Well it should be pointed out that Michael Collins Piper, the author cited in the previous post is an extremely dubious guide.

It is inevitable that the pro-Israel forces would criticize him- after all his affiliations and line provide them with a great deal of help- offering a rationale to excuse the very real crimes of the Israeli State under the guise of defending themselves against Racism.

Thus, the only way to figure things out is to keep thinking clearly and maintain an analysis that is simultaneously critical of Israel's bullshit but also of the bullshit of the right wing extremists, racists, downright fascists and et cetera...

Michael Collins Piper has written and been an editor for The American Free Press and its predecessor, the Spotlight, for the past 20 years. Both papers, as well as the now-defunct Liberty Lobby, were founded by Willis Carto, one of the most notorious American anti-Semites in the post-World War II era. Carto's ideological genealogy can be traced back to Francis Parker Yockney, an American anti-Semitic writer/philosopher and supporter of the Hitler regime in Germany. Carto's career has had its ups and downs, but critics maintain that he more than anyone else has been responsible for keeping anti-Semitism alive in the United States. He was also instrumental in the creation of the National Alliance, the most notorious neo-Nazi organization in the US. Piper has been a close associate of Carto's for years and also contributes to the Barnes Review, a "scholarly journal" founded by Carto and devoted to "Holocaust Revisionism".

Piper's own writings have disputed recognized historical truths and have suggested, for example that the Zyklon-B used to gas Jews in Nazi concentration camps was really used only to delouse clothing. Particularly illuminating, though, was an American Free Press article he penned shortly after the events of September 11, 2001, arguing that the Israelis and the Jews were responsible for the attacks. "Did Ariel Sharon help orchestrate the September 11 terrorist attacks to instigate all-out US war against Israel's enemies?" he asked. "Don't discount it," the article concludes.

This sort of writing is typical of Piper, said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Los Angeles-based Jewish human-rights organization dedicated to "fostering tolerance and understanding".

"[Piper] never found a conspiracy he didn't like," explained Cooper, who is well acquainted with Piper's activities. Piper, who has attributed everything from the Monica Lewinsky scandal to Watergate to the Israelis, is from the school of writers that disregards the mountains of evidence and facts pointing to one conclusion in favor of rumors, whisperings and innuendo that point to the hidden hand of a nefarious enemy.

The main theses of Piper's books are that the Mossad, Israel's spy agency, was complicit in the assassination of John F Kennedy and that the Israel lobby (in his writings and interviews Piper uses the terms "Jews" and "Israel" interchangeably) controls US foreign policy. They are "the hidden power behind Washington", according to an interview that ran in the Star, Malaysia's largest English-language daily. Piper insists that his motives are "to help Palestinians get their land back, keep American kids from getting their hands and legs blown off, and keep some Jewish people from their own excesses". But an examination of his writings clearly reveals a lifetime crusade against a singular villain - the Jews. Repeated phone calls to the Star editor responsible for the interview over the course of the week requesting an interview, or even an informal lunch discussion, were to no avail. To his credit, though, the editor did mention in the article that "regardless of views and beliefs, open discussion and exchange usually serve better" the cause of divining truth.

The Star article suggested that Piper doesn't get play in the US press because he brings up unpleasant truths, implying that there is a campaign to suppress Piper's writings. Piper himself works up this angle in interviews, speeches, articles and books, frequently lashing out at the Anti-Defamation League, a watchdog group that he contends is out to get him. Piper says the Jewish-controlled media giants and publishing companies won't go near his books because they are afraid of the truth. A more accurate description, however, would be that the mainstream media ignore Piper and his ilk, as his scribblings were recognized long ago for what they are.

"Nobody takes him seriously in the United States," said one media watcher who attended one of the lectures. "He's pretty extreme, to say the least."

Rabbi Cooper explained: "People like Piper and the others are free to write just about anything they want because we champion the freedom of the press ... but it's hard to over-exaggerate how irrelevant the lunatic fringe is in the US." Western journalists in Kuala Lumpur echoed this assessment. Common sense works against Piper as well; it would stand to reason that if he was as dangerous as he claims to be, Mossad would have killed him long ago.

Until recently Piper has been the darling of white supremacist bulletin boards such as Stxrmfrxnt.org and has been a speaker at meetings of the Counsel of Conservative Citizens, as well as a noted guest at reunions held by former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke. Recently, however, Piper has found some attention on the worldwide lecture circuit, speaking at events in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Moscow, Japan and Malaysia. "There is a market for Americans who are prepared to say nasty things about America," explained Cooper.

Piper told the Zayed Center in Dubai, also in the UAE, that he became a journalist to "combat the anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bias on the part of the mass media in America". That visit has been something of a feather in Piper's cap; he asserted that the anti-Jewish Zayed center was closed down because it hosted him and that the visit sparked an international controversy. During that visit he sounded the trumpet against the Jewish plutocrats who allegedly control America, insisting that "everyone of the major television networks is dominated by Jewish financial interests". He also asserted that antipathy in the US toward Saudi Arabia is a result of Anti-Defamation League propaganda. Piper didn't respond to an interview request.

There is no shortage of "alternative media" available to the curious reader with an Internet connection. The proliferation of bloggers and e-papers is a testament to the fact that people are searching for more than the mainstream line. With the rise of the Internet, however, there is also no shortage of hate-motivated "reporting", and stories originating in the US and disguised in a veneer of legitimacy can make it around the world in seconds, to be read by people lacking the experience to put the "news" in proper context.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 0Ae01.html




[Lightly edited to change spelling errors and to remove link to white supremacist group]


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Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:38 pm

Nice, American Dream. Do you know how to distinguish between a cheap, manipulative hit piece of crap and a proper hostile critique? Clearly not, so I'll give you a few hints:

Let's say the subject is a fact-filled book that is nearly a thousand pages long with voluminous footnotes that meticulously document the evidence upon which the author bases his argument.

The proper critique will outline the author's argument and then select a few of the more salient facts upon which it is based. Then, the proper critique will expose how the author either used false data or faulty logic to reach his conclusions.

The cheap, manipulative hit piece of crap will consist almost entirely of ad hominem attacks, while strictly avoiding any discussion of the evidence that makes up the vast bulk of the book.

The proper critique will cite academics or other experts who have specialized knowledge of the issues discussed in the book, to provide their own informed perspective on the author's research or analysis.

The cheap, manipulative hit piece of crap will cite people whose only apparent qualification is that they share the writer's ideological biases. Since the point of the cheap, manipulative hit piece of crap is to attack the book's author, rather than address the book's content, it's not even necessary for the "experts" to indicate that they have even read the book, let alone investigated its premises.

The proper critique will leave the reader more informed, not only about the book itself, but about the topic covered by the book, than when he or she started reading.

The cheap, manipulative hit piece of crap will make no attempt to inform the reader, on the contrary: the point is to shut down the reader's mind and persuade him or her that ignorance in this case is a virtue.

Look again at Piper's article: every line contains important, relevant information. The book is even more jam-packed with facts, every one of which is documented and carefully sourced. I have read it, and have learned so many things about the suppressed history that Americans can only gain by knowing, and that are not covered as comprehensively or in such detail anywhere else. Incidentally, the book contains the same challenge that Piper issues in the article I posted. Piper says:

    To this day, eight years [now it's 16 years - Alice] after the release of the book:

    • No one has been able to rebut the thesis, [shown that I] misquoted any of my sources or quoted any of my sources out of context.

    • No one has been able to demonstrate where any of the key points in my thesis are refuted by other information.

    • No one has has cited any specific errors (relevant to the thesis) that would contradict my thesis.

    In the book I have pointed out the minor errors that have appeared in previous editions and challenged my readers: "Show Me Where I’m Wrong." But none have done so.

    Considering the energetic and very public efforts of the Jewish ADL to defame this book, one would think that the ADL would assemble a crack team of researchers to tear the book apart. And bear in mind that if the book were that insignificant, the ADL would not pay Final Judgment the attention that they do.

    But the ADL refuses to debate me. People should ask "why?"


I certainly don't expect you to write a proper critique all by yourself, American Dream, nor even to post one (since there apparently aren't any for this particular bestseller) -- but you could have taken just one or two of the facts cited in Piper's article and tried to debunk it/them, or show how it/they have been discredited by others more qualified than you. It would constitute a much more interesting and valuable response than lazily (and rather insultingly) posting that cheap, manipulative hit piece of crap.
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Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:04 pm

Well that does it, Alice- I guess you just proved that "the Zionists" are responsible for JFK.

There's no need to pay any further attention to the assassination.

Case closed...




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Postby erosoplier » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:45 am

American Dream wrote:Well that does it, Alice- I guess you just proved that "the Zionists" are responsible for JFK.

There's no need to pay any further attention to the assassination.

Case closed...




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You composed and posted a response to Alice's initial post in less time than it takes an ordinary mortal such as myself to actually read the essay Alice posted.

Did you read any of the Michael Collins Piper essay? Have you ever read any Michael Collins Piper material in relation to the JFK assassination?

Given your belief that Piper is an "extremely dubious guide", perhaps you could give us a short summary, with some examples, of how Piper's dubiousness manifests itself in his essay?
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Postby stefano » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:58 am

Thanks Eros and Alice, two meaty essays there. I'll look for Final Judgment when I have a credit card again. And I have to agree, AD, that your criticism of Piper is a bit thin. A 2004 article from Asia Times? You do know they publish absolutely anyone as long as they don't have to pay? Do you disagree with any of the statements of fact in the article or not?
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Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:00 am

It is quite a luxury to have as a main argument; ‘anti-Semites listen to this person therefore this person is an anti-Semite and there is no obligation to examine let alone consider arguments on their merits’.

Yeah, like a fake Rolex.

Just look at the shine in the diamonds, -you are getting sleepy, more and more sleepy.

Now when you wake up, you will squawk like a chicken.
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Postby SonOfKitty » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:30 pm

Interesting syllogism:

Charles Manson was a crazed killer
Charles Manson liked the Beatles
Therefore: all Beatles fans are crazed killers.


Found this:
Final Judgment is available online for free.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8546122/Micha ... l-Judgment
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Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:28 pm

I think some folk are eating syllogisms for breakfast.

AD wrote...
It is inevitable that the pro-Israel forces would criticize him- after all his affiliations and line provide them with a great deal of help-


Well sure, especially if pro-Israel wimps can continue to use an ideological hammer to keep the criticism on Mr. Collins as a man, -anything to avoid considering the very real crimes of the Israeli State.

…offering a rationale to excuse the very real crimes of the Israeli State under the guise of defending themselves against Racism.


No shit Sherlock. Work it for all its worth.

Thus, the only way to figure things out is to keep thinking clearly and maintain an analysis that is simultaneously critical of Israel's bullshit but also of the bullshit of the right wing extremists, racists, downright fascists and et cetera...


I will be anxiously awaiting your analysis. You know, no rush, but maybe if you could spare a few hours sometime, you could put together some snappy ‘analyses’.

And a tip, while you are doing this work for us and the world, try not to set up comparisons in your head between you and Alice. That would likely not work out so well.
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Postby freemason9 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:31 am

Red herrings. So many red herrings, but I sense the truth is more logical:

A group of CIA "outliers" conspired to kill JFK; they had allied themselves with certain virulent anti-communists that lived in Texas (several of whom could trace their pasts and/or ancestry to German Nazis). Those guys were nutty as hell, and absolutely committed. And killing Kennedy was amazingly easy.

Afterward, the CIA knew what happened, and identified most of those involved in the conspiracy. They were too late to prevent the assassination, but they quietly and efficiently eliminated most of the conspirators. They were richly involved in the cover-up because they didn't want it known that people associated with the U.S. government (however loosely) were involved in the killing.

The cabal of nutty right wing fascists has been a focal point of the FBI and CIA for many years. American intelligence has put up with them because of their expertise in drugs, guns, and the sex trade . . . but there are limits.

Believe it or not, the FBI and CIA are generally the good guys. Their job is rather daunting, though.
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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Postby barracuda » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:17 am

freemason9 wrote:Red herrings. So many red herrings, but I sense the truth is more logical:

A group of CIA "outliers" conspired to kill JFK; they had allied themselves with certain virulent anti-communists that lived in Texas (several of whom could trace their pasts and/or ancestry to German Nazis). Those guys were nutty as hell, and absolutely committed. And killing Kennedy was amazingly easy.


This is only the case if you consider Allen Dulles, the man who essentially created the CIA, an outlier. His guilt is as good as proven, along with the Cabell brothers, Charles and Earle. These traitors names should be excoriated in school books across this country, and their criminal names turned into cruel nursery rhymes. Instead, their co-conspirators and their descendants now own this country: the war machine, the legislature, and their greatest prize, the executive. Virtually every president since the assassination has been in the pocket of this cabal of murderers, and shall continue to be, until the real history of the death of JFK becomes understood as the work of real men rather than nameless shadowy outliers. Kennedy was killed by those at the very heart of our country, and those at the very heart of our country continue to hide those killers in the shadows of lies.

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Postby lupercal » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:25 am

barracuda thanks for a very eloquent and concise analysis. I agree 100%. The CIA by all accounts is a criminal organization illegally and unconstitutionally embedded into our political fabric. It appears that Truman was bamboozled into signing the order in 1947 just like he was persuaded to bomb Japan.

I suspect FDR was gotten rid shortly after his progressive veep Henry A. Wallace had been removed by conservadems in 1944 to make way for the more easily manipulated Truman. According to wiki Wallace missed being the 33rd President by just 82 days:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_A._Wallace

Convenient. As far as the FBI and CIA being generally good guys, freemason9 I know it's tempting to believe their self-flattering propaganda, and they no doubt have many honest souls on their payrolls, but the reality is that it just isn't so, at least as far as the CIA goes. The FBI may serve some useful purpose though honestly I'm not sure what it is.
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Postby Nordic » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:44 am

So Oliver Stone seems to be really tuned in .....

WTF is up with that 9/11 movie he made?

Did he need a gig? Money?

I really don't get it.

Not to derail this or anything, but I'm really frustrated that Oliver Stone, the one guy who could make a REAL 9/11 movie, went and made the thing that he did. By doing so, he just reinforced the official story, because now people think, at least subconsciously, "hell, even Oliver Stone doesn't seem to question the Bush/Cheney story of 9/11".
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Postby stefano » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:16 am

SonOfKitty wrote:Final Judgment is available online for free.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8546122/Micha ... l-Judgment

Thanks. I ended up finding the torrent. The first ten pages are all blurbs though, I hate it when they do that.
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Postby sunny » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:27 am

barracuda wrote:This is only the case if you consider Allen Dulles, the man who essentially created the CIA, an outlier. His guilt is as good as proven, along with the Cabell brothers, Charles and Earle. These traitors names should be excoriated in school books across this country, and their criminal names turned into cruel nursery rhymes. Instead, their co-conspirators and their descendants now own this country: the war machine, the legislature, and their greatest prize, the executive. Virtually every president since the assassination has been in the pocket of this cabal of murderers, and shall continue to be, until the real history of the death of JFK becomes understood as the work of real men rather than nameless shadowy outliers. Kennedy was killed by those at the very heart of our country, and those at the very heart of our country continue to hide those killers in the shadows of lies.


Thank you. I couldn't agree more.
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Postby MinM » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:21 pm

barracuda wrote:
freemason9 wrote:Red herrings. So many red herrings, but I sense the truth is more logical:

A group of CIA "outliers" conspired to kill JFK; they had allied themselves with certain virulent anti-communists that lived in Texas (several of whom could trace their pasts and/or ancestry to German Nazis). Those guys were nutty as hell, and absolutely committed. And killing Kennedy was amazingly easy.


This is only the case if you consider Allen Dulles, the man who essentially created the CIA, an outlier. His guilt is as good as proven, along with the Cabell brothers, Charles and Earle. These traitors names should be excoriated in school books across this country, and their criminal names turned into cruel nursery rhymes. Instead, their co-conspirators and their descendants now own this country: the war machine, the legislature, and their greatest prize, the executive. Virtually every president since the assassination has been in the pocket of this cabal of murderers, and shall continue to be, until the real history of the death of JFK becomes understood as the work of real men rather than nameless shadowy outliers. Kennedy was killed by those at the very heart of our country, and those at the very heart of our country continue to hide those killers in the shadows of lies.

Image

To the extent there is a tangible difference between Republicans and Democrats, this tends to be one area where that difference manifests itself (pre-Clinton). Many of the "outliers" typically become insiders during Republican Administrations:

Allen Welsh Dulles, Richard McGarrah Helms, William Casey, Porter Goss, George H. W. Bush, James Jesus Angleton, David Atlee Phillips, James Woolsey...

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