Ted Kennedy has passed

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Postby n0x23 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:14 pm

WHAT'S more, even if your account were accurate, I can forgive him.


How would you feel if it was YOUR daughter that he gave a ride to after drinking, crashing off a bridge and then leaving her to die?
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Postby justdrew » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:23 pm

n0x23 wrote:
WHAT'S more, even if your account were accurate, I can forgive him.


How would you feel if it was YOUR daughter that he gave a ride to after drinking, crashing off a bridge and then leaving her to die?


first - I don't believe that's what happened.

second - I would be glad anyone survived. If a car wrecks into water, anyone who can get out and survive, good for them, it's not so easy. It's an accident that could have happened to anyone, drinking or not. Also, after an accident like that, few people would be thinking clearly for some time. They probably didn't even have seatbelts back then. Also drinking and driving was far far more common back then, and probably every other car on the road leaving the party was also driven by someone who had been drinking. accidents happen and people die, life goes on, deal with it. I know I have.
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Postby n0x23 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:33 pm

Wrong? YOU CONVENIENTLY FUCKIN LEFT OUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF HISTORY THERE BUDDY, DO YOU ALWAYS JUDGE A PERSON BY ONE MOMENT OF THEIR LIFE? WHICH YOU ONLY HAVE READ ABOUT AND HAVE NO PROOF OF ANYTHING YOU POST. WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU? WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED IN YOUR LIFE? ARE YOU THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE TO CONDEMN A PERSON YOU APPARENTLY KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT? HOW MANY LIVES HAVE YOU SAVED ALONG YOUR JOURNEY ON THIS PLANET? YOU ARE AN UNEDUCATED SELF ABSORBED CHILD.


Again...Which part and or parts are wrong?

And please, while I am entertained by you ragging fanaticism, blind zealotry, ad hominem's and the use of Caps Lock, but it honestly doesn't do much for a rational and logical conversation. Ya know?

Yea there's lots of "court records" out there, Warren Commission, 9/11 Commission, Robert Kennedy's assasination, MLK asssasination, etc.... apparently you believe everything that comes out in a "court" record? Grow up.


No, not at all.
But what I have read are Teddy's own words, while he was under oath.
Can you present anything that shows Teddy denying those were his words, or proof that the transcripts were doctored?

See the thing is....There doesn't need to be a nefarious, covert operation to destroy an alcoholics credibility, alcoholics fuck this up all on their own.
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:35 pm

I know it's the thing to do, to bash every politician, but I got good vibes from Teddy. I wish he or RFK Jr on Ring of Fire had spoken up about the obvious conspiracy against their family. I firmly believe "they" tried to kill Teddy a number of times(starting with that plane crash)

I also cant help but think how damn different the US and the world had been if Teddy, NOT the Reagan/Bush Sr junta had won 1980.

Bridge It wrote:
Here is what happened according to Cutler's analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary Jo would not escape.


Let's say for argument sake that I accept every aspect of this story as well as the facts supporting collusion to assassinate or discredit every other Kennedy living or dead. I am still left wondering what was so exceptional about this family that the “power group” (as the aforementioned article refers to them) felt the need to eliminate the entire male gene pool fro the board.

Anyone?


The PTB work in mysterious ways. Perhaps it was something that isn't
readily apparent on an exoteric level. Perhaps, this struggle or scene has been played out a very long time ago.
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Postby OP ED » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:36 pm

jesus. is it possible to favour a position wherein he is neither an inhuman monster nor a saint?

both his vices and virtues, as i can view them in their alluring complexity are, well, remarkably boringly normal, all things considered.
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Postby justdrew » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:37 pm

n0x23 wrote: to destroy an alcoholics credibility, alcoholics fuck this up all on their own.


sounds like maybe you're speaking from personal experience.

anyway, it didn't destroy his credibility, if it had, he wouldn't have been in the Senate all these years.
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:38 pm

daba64 wrote:John Dean said to Richard Nixon as recorded on the White House tapes in 1973: "If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick...." [White House tapes pg 121]

E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis were seen in Martha's Vineyard that
weekend. It appears that Ted was set up by the CIA.


Oh no, but but ol Teddy was just a drunk see! That 1964 plane crash? Oh that was him being a drunk too. JFK and RFK's death too, all a random coinkydink.

Funny how people buy the Chappaquiddick, that story has just as many inconsistancies as Jon Jon's death and every other Kennedy murder/murder attempt.
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Postby josey wales » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:44 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:
josey wales wrote:I'm with n0x23

What I could never figure out was how he could serve the very beast that killed his two brothers? How could he sell his soul and never demand the truth and justice. Was a Senate seat worth the blood? I guess he learned it a the feet of his old man. He built the empire on illegal booze and stock manipulation so was it just a cost of doing business?

Never mind he sponsored and supported some of the worst legislation in our history.



you have no fuckin clue, serve the beast? you make me puke, fuck you


Well, I guess that speaks for itself. Too bad you apparently cannot produce a logical response to a fair set of questions.
He, in fact, did serve the beast in that he was a part of the Federal Government for decades. If you object to calling it a beast, so be it. But it certainly is nothing envisioned by the Founders and it is nothing authorized in the Constitution. He sat at the table of power. He drank their wine and ate their meat. Yes, my assertion is that that Power is the same that saw fit to kill this brothers.
I simply want to know why he did not pursue the facts surrounding the killing of his brothers. I am more than willing to look at evidence to the contrary. Perhaps I am uninformed about his investigations and his efforts to reign in the CIA and other 'black budget' operations. Pray, enlighten us, if there is such activity on his part.
As for his accomplishments, I still hold to the opinion that they were not good for the country but that debate could go on for days. To be brutally honest, I think he was a limousine liberal.
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:45 pm

josey wales wrote:I'm with n0x23

What I could never figure out was how he could serve the very beast that killed his two brothers? How could he sell his soul and never demand the truth and justice. Was a Senate seat worth the blood? I guess he learned it a the feet of his old man. He built the empire on illegal booze and stock manipulation so was it just a cost of doing business?

Never mind he sponsored and supported some of the worst legislation in our history.


It sounds cliche, but sometimes you have to work inside the system.

TK had helped a tremendous amount of poor and working middle class families over the decades in America, work that wouldn't have materialized had he been killed or
just up and left.

pepsified thinker wrote:I heard a brief clip on NPR--didn't catch all of it, so apologies if I get it wrong--in which one of the women who were the 'Jersey Girls' (have I got the name right? I'm referring to the women who became 9-11 activitis after their husbands died on 9-11) talked about him having been early and consistent in supporting them, and in particular, consistent even after events had passed them by--that he called and invited at least the one doing the interview to go sailing with him years after others had stopped giving them the time of day.


I had read about that.

I also sadly recall how this year one of the most vocal and outspoken 9/11 widows who always questioned the governments story(and refused a payout), Beverly Eckert, died in a plane crash. Then a couple months later the guy who decided to finally order fighter jets to protect Washington DC on 9/11 was one of the few killed in that Metro DC commuter train crash.
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Postby justdrew » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:47 pm

josey wales wrote:
seemslikeadream wrote:
josey wales wrote:I'm with n0x23

What I could never figure out was how he could serve the very beast that killed his two brothers? How could he sell his soul and never demand the truth and justice. Was a Senate seat worth the blood? I guess he learned it a the feet of his old man. He built the empire on illegal booze and stock manipulation so was it just a cost of doing business?

Never mind he sponsored and supported some of the worst legislation in our history.



you have no fuckin clue, serve the beast? you make me puke, fuck you


Well, I guess that speaks for itself. Too bad you apparently cannot produce a logical response to a fair set of questions.
He, in fact, did serve the beast in that he was a part of the Federal Government for decades. If you object to calling it a beast, so be it. But it certainly is nothing envisioned by the Founders and it is nothing authorized in the Constitution. He sat at the table of power. He drank their wine and ate their meat. Yes, my assertion is that that Power is the same that saw fit to kill this brothers.
I simply want to know why he did not pursue the facts surrounding the killing of his brothers. I am more than willing to look at evidence to the contrary. Perhaps I am uninformed about his investigations and his efforts to reign in the CIA and other 'black budget' operations. Pray, enlighten us, if there is such activity on his part.
As for his accomplishments, I still hold to the opinion that they were not good for the country but that debate could go on for days. To be brutally honest, I think he was a limousine liberal.


I love it... anytime a democrat is president, these anti-government rightwingers come crawling out of the woodwork. but they're nowhere to be seen when a rethug is in power. the Founders made a living document that changes. the problems with the government are fixable. It is OUR government as in owned by us, and when we take it back from the corporations, mobbed up fascists and their ilk, it'll be doing fine.
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Postby RocketMan » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:51 pm

Image

Man, this just became my favourite image ever.

As for the man, I agree with OP ED that he should be looked at, warts and all (there was a pretty poisonous GQ article about him in 1990).

But even at the risk of being branded an armchair psychologist much of his acting out in later years could be ascribed to being constantly in the crosshairs of the deep state, the deaths of his two close brothers and the toll his constant, productive legislative work must have taken.
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Postby n0x23 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:53 pm

justdrew
first - I don't believe that's what happened.



What then do you think happened?


OP ED
jesus. is it possible to favour a position wherein he is neither an inhuman monster nor a saint?


I don't think of him as an inhuman monster, he was very human.
But he wasn't treated as a human.
Most humans, if they were involved in the very same scenario would have been imprisoned for quite some time, but not good 'ol Teddy...hmmm... I wonder why that is?



justdrew
sounds like maybe you're speaking from personal experience


Personal experience? No, just Life experience and common sense.

....anyway, it didn't destroy his credibility, if it had, he wouldn't have been in the Senate all these years.


The amazing fact is, he did what he did and was STILL able to have been in the Senate all those years.
The scum always rises to the top right?
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Postby beeline » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:59 pm

Most humans, if they were involved in the very same scenario would have been imprisoned for quite some time


Actually, times were quite different back then. In most cases, if you were caught drinking and driving, you were either escorted home or tossed in the 'drunk tank' for the night. It wasn't until the early '80s, with the lobbying/rise of Mothers Against Drunk Driving that the laws got much tougher and and were enforced.

Just sayin'.
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Postby RocketMan » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:01 pm

The scum always rises to the top right?


Fuck off, troll. Or actually don't, you can represent Ignoreland at RI.
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Postby n0x23 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:12 pm

Fuck off, troll. Or actually don't, you can represent Ignoreland at RI.


You are more than welcome to ignore me...but how exactly am I a Troll simply because I hold an opinion, that apparently runs counter to the general consensus?
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