One Step Closer to a Dream Recorder

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

One Step Closer to a Dream Recorder

Postby elfismiles » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:01 am

Remember movies like BRAINSTORM, UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD, STRANGE DAYS and others that involved technology to record sensory information so that it could be "played back" for others to experience?

Generally I have speculated that Black Budget Tech is 10-20 years ahead of what we're told about. Consider this... in 1999 I first heard about experiments in which a rat trained to run a maze was then hooked up to an EEG or other brainwave scanning device while it slept and dreamed. Experimenters said they could determine WHERE in the maze the rat was dreaming it was at. That same year I first started hearing about the potential use of fMRI technology as a sort of Lie Detector that could determine if you had seen a particular image, object, suspect by simply noting the type of brainwave you unconsciously elicited when shown said image/object/suspect.

Now, ten years later, such fMRI "lie detectors" are being used pioneeringly (and unethically in my opinion) in court cases in India while DHS and DARPA are trying to get field versions of the technology for law enforcement and national security. AND we hear about this latest brain scanning tech.

Psychic 'mind-reading' computer will show your thoughts on screen
By David Derbyshire
Last updated at 7:55 AM on 02nd November 2009

Image

A mind-reading machine that can produce pictures of what a person is seeing or remembering has been developed by scientists.

The device studies patterns of brainwave activity and turns them into a moving image on a computer screen.

While the idea of a telepathy machine might sound like something from science fiction, the scientists say it could one day be used to solve crimes.

[Leap forward: Halle Berry in X-Men. The telepathic abilities from the films are closer to reality after inventors created a mind-reading machine]

In a pioneering experiment, an American team scanned the brain activity of two volunteers watching a video and used the results to recreate the images they were seeing.

Although the results were crude, the technique was able to reproduce the rough shape of a man in a white shirt and a city skyline.

Professor Jack Gallant, who carried out the experiment at the University of California, Berkeley, said: 'At the moment when you see something and want to describe it you have to use words or draw it and it doesn't work very well.

'This technology might allow you to recover an eyewitness's memory of a crime.'

The experiment is the latest in a series of studies designed to show how brain scans can reveal our innermost thoughts.

Using a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scanner, normally found in hospitals, the American team scanned the brains of two volunteers while they watched videos.

The results were fed into a computer which looked for links between colours, shapes and movements on the screen, and patterns of activity in the brain.

The computer software was then given the brain scans of the volunteers as they watched a different video and was asked to recreate what they were seeing.

According to Dr Gallant, who has yet to publish the results of the experiment, the software was close to the mark.

In one scene featuring comic actor Steve Martin in a white shirt, the computer reproduced his white torso and rough shape, but was unable to handle details of his face.

In another, the volunteers watched an image of a city skyline with a plane flying past.

The software was able to recreate the skyline - but not the aircraft.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... loped.html


Psychic computer shows your thoughts on screen

Scientists have discovered how to “read” minds by scanning brain activity and reproducing images of what people are seeing — or even remembering.

Researchers have been able to convert into crude video footage the brain activity stimulated by what a person is watching or recalling.

The breakthrough raises the prospect of significant benefits, such as allowing people who are unable to move or speak to communicate via visualisation of their thoughts; recording people’s dreams; or allowing police to identify criminals by recalling the memories of a witness.

However, it could also herald a new Big Brother era, similar to that envisaged in the Hollywood film Minority Report, in which an individual’s private thoughts can be readily accessed by the authorities.

Jack Gallant and Shinji Nishimoto, two neurologists from the University of California, Berkeley, last year managed to correlate activity in the brain’s visual cortex with static images seen by the person. Last week they went one step further by revealing that it is possible to “decode” signals generated in the brain by moving scenes.

In an experiment which has yet to be peer reviewed, Gallant and Nishimoto, using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) technology, scanned the brains of two patients as they watched videos.

A computer programme was used to search for links between the configuration of shapes, colours and movements in the videos, and patterns of activity in the patients’ visual cortex.

It was later fed more than 200 days’ worth of YouTube internet clips and asked to predict which areas of the brain the clips would stimulate if people were watching them.

Finally, the software was used to monitor the two patients’ brains as they watched a new film and to reproduce what they were seeing based on their neural activity alone.

Remarkably, the computer programme was able to display continuous footage of the films they were watching — albeit with blurred images.

In one scene which featured the actor Steve Martin wearing a white shirt, the software recreated his rough shape and white torso but missed other details, such as his facial features.

Another scene, showing a plane flying towards the camera against a city skyline, was less successfully reproduced. The computer recreated the image of the skyline but omitted the plane altogether.

“Some scenes decode better than others,” said Gallant. “We can decode talking heads really well. But a camera panning quickly across a scene confuses the algorithm.

“You can use a device like this to do some pretty cool things. At the moment when you see something and want to describe it to someone you have to use words or draw it and it doesn’t work very well.

“You could use this technology to transmit the image to someone. It might be useful for artists or to allow you to recover an eyewitness’s memory of a crime.”

Such technology may not be confined to the here and now. Scientists at University College London have conducted separate tests that detect, with an accuracy of about 50%, memories recalled by patients.

The discoveries come amid a flurry of developments in the field of brain science. Researchers have also used scanning technology to measure academic ability, detect early signs of Alzheimer’s and other degenerative conditions, and even predict the decision a person is about to make before they are conscious of making it.

Such developments may have controversial ramifications. In Britain, fMRI scanning technology has been sold to multinational companies, such as Unilever and McDonald’s, enabling them to see how we subconsciously react to brands.

In America, security agencies are researching the use of brain scanners for interrogating prisoners, and Lockheed Martin, the US defence contractor, is reported to have studied the possibility of scanning brains at a distance.

This would allow an individual’s thoughts and anxieties to be examined without their knowledge in sensitive locations such as airports.

Russell Foster, a neuroscientist at Oxford University, said rapid advances in the field were throwing up ethical dilemmas.

“It’s absolutely critical for scientists to inform the public about what we are doing so they can engage in the debate about how this knowledge should be used,” he said.

“It’s the age-old problem: knowledge is power and it can be used for both good and evil.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/s ... 898177.ece
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:38 pm

Try as I might I can't find the thread where they did this to cats and had them watch Indiana Jones. Supposedly the corresponding image on the monitor was that of Indy but with a cat's face.

Does anyone remember this thread?
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby elfismiles » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:23 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:Try as I might I can't find the thread where they did this to cats and had them watch Indiana Jones. Supposedly the corresponding image on the monitor was that of Indy but with a cat's face.

Does anyone remember this thread?


Seriously?!
:shock:

Yer not serious are you?
That text was supposed to be in green right?
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Postby Alaya » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:25 pm

I flashed on Until the End of the World when I saw your title.

The road to total addiction seemed a quick one and I felt I could relate to preferring the endless watching my dreams to the real world as well.

The opportunity to see people from the past - also tempting.
User avatar
Alaya
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby justdrew » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:59 pm

can't find the article on the cat version...

I'm searching....
still searching...

remember the Russian bounty bear software used to track Claire? Love that animation... One of my all time favorite movies :) Directors Cut that is. Over four hours of glorious way-ahead of time movie. Hard to believe that was made 89-91. Hmmm... I need to see this: 2004's Land of Plenty

another brilliant film completely lost on Ignorant America
Last edited by justdrew on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:28 pm

No I'm definitely not joking but I don't know why I can't find the thread. I wonder if it was a different forum?

The main discussion point was that researchers had found a way to image basic black and white shapes (triangle, circle, square, ring, X) that a test subject was viewing on a monitor in a different room.

With side-by-side comparisons from the actual image to the grainy, fuzzy brain image, very similar what they illustrate with Steve and Claire above.
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:30 pm

User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby can1exy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:17 pm

User avatar
can1exy
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:41 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:51 pm

That cat looks super pissed.
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby elfismiles » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm

Thanks peeps!

Thank you LB for remembering the thread. And thanks can1exy for that youtube link.

I serve on the board of a local non-profit and this is actually an area of research we've been moving towards for the last ten years.

Thank you all. :D
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:38 pm

elfismiles wrote:Thanks peeps!

Thank you LB for remembering the thread. And thanks can1exy for that youtube link.

I serve on the board of a local non-profit and this is actually an area of research we've been moving towards for the last ten years.

Thank you all. :D


You've got to be kidding - that's amazing. You should post about it, I'm sure RigInt would be interested.

I shared all this stuff with my other messageboard and now they're all freaked out.
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:51 pm

These experiments correllate activity in the visual cortex with images seen by the eye, but this type of visual memory is almost certainly only specifically local to the back of the brain:

Image

Other types of memory are associated with other areas, for instance the mediating processes of the hippocampus, or the coordination of structural or pattern working memory in the frontal lobes.

When using your mind to recall specific visual memories, it seems clear that different kinds of visualisations have different sources, and might be imaged on slightly different "screens". I mean, consider the variety of visualisations available to you:

    - Short term recall, which sometimes is almost indistinguishable from retinal afterimage.

    - Images retrieved from long term storrage, e.g., the picture you can summon up at will of the the bike you had as a child, or the face of a person you've not seen for years.

    - Language based visual imagery, such as the form of words, letters or symbols.

    - Imaginative thinking, whereupon you consider the form of a new object via the combination of known elements located in long term storage, e.g., you may have never seen a cat on water skis or a square tomato, but you can form a very solid image of this in your mind if you try.

    - The dream "screen", which seems to possess a very different character to it than any of these in terms of the the "feel" of the image itself.

And so on. Do all these types of visualisations end up routed through the visual cortex, or is the experiment in the OP limited to a real time correllation of incoming visual stimulii as it is being laid on the retina and quickly processed in the back of your head? It seems like it, and while that is a fascinating advance, it might yet be some time before dream playback or forensic "witness scanning" is a reality. Cool shit, though.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby justdrew » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:11 am

eventually it won't just be record, but play back (or generate and induce)...

If this stuff ever works really well on humans... this is some tech with rather major impacts, this stuff would be as big a change as we've seen since printing, maybe even bigger.

consider Augmented Reality overlays on top of normal day to day walking around senses. Helper avatars only you can see... or you can let your friends see them too by adjusting permissions, sigh... it's a gonna be a weird future folks...

'cudda - do you have any thoughts about the trans-cranial magnetic stimulation stuff that's being done therapeutically today? I know someone who might benefit from this as an on-demand epileptic prevention perhaps?

Mind control with sound and light
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/04/mind-control-with-so.html

From a slew of new brainwave toys and bionic monkeys to advanced brain scans and wireless neuro-implants that will soon enable paralyzed people to remotely operate computers with their minds, the gap in the human-machine interface is closing. But while mind-reading gets all the glory, other researchers are developing new amazing non-drug methods to control the brain as well. We've posted many times about zapping regions of the brain with magnetic pulses, called transcranial magnetic stimulation, to treat depression, boost creativity, or even improve reaction time. And brain "pacemakers" are increasingly common treatments for epilepsy, Parkinson's, and even depression. What's next? Mind control through sound and light.

Brain Playground Day
Arizona State University researchers are using ultrasound pulses to stimulate activity deep inside the brain from the outside. The sound waves cause brain cells to spew certain chemical neurotransmitters, ultimately resulting in physical movements or other effects. The technique may also be used to lower the brain's metabolic rate after an injury to reduce secondary damage. "We're trying to develop the technology to the point where we can do away with the electrodes that are used in vagus nerve stimulation and deep brain stimulation," ASU professor William J. Tyler told IEEE Spectrum:

The low frequencies used can travel some distance through the air. So could you be zapped with a mood-altering blast from across a room? Probably not, Tyler says. In theory, the ultrasound technique could work from up to about a meter away, he says. "The farthest we've tried so far has been roughly 50 millimeters."

Meanwhile, other researchers are exploring how light, rather than sound, can be used to reprogram the brain. The field is called optogenetics and lies at the intersection of optics and biotechnology, specifically genetic engineering. By introducing genes that encode for channels and enzymes that are light-sensitive, scientists can "probe" the brain with light to learn about neuronal function. A fiber optic cable is literally plugged into the skull to excite the appropriate brain bits, essentially introducing an on/off switch in the head. (See the image at top from Stanford University's Optogenetics Resource Center, led by optogenetics pioneer Karl Deisseroth.)

"We are inventing new tools for analyzing and engineering brain circuits," says Ed Boyden, director of MIT's Synthetic Neurobiology Group and a leader in the field. We are devising technologies for controlling specific neural circuit elements, to understand their causal contribution to normal and pathological neural computations."

In the new issue of Wired, Institute for the Future affiliate Michael Chorost, author of the fantastic book Rebuilt, visits with Deisseroth and Boyden, and explains how optogenetics was used to make mice with paralyzing Parkinson's walk again. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like folks undergoing optogenetic treatments in the future will have fiber optic cables snaking out of their skulls. From Wired:

One of Deisseroth's colleagues designed a paddle about one-third the length of a popsicle stick. It has four LEDs: two blue ones to make neurons fire and two yellow ones to stop them. Attached to the paddle is a little box that provides power and instructions. The paddle is implanted on the surface of the brain, on top of the motor control area. The lights are bright enough to illuminate a fairly large volume of tissue, so the placement doesn't have to be exact. The light-sensitizing genes are injected into the affected tissue beforehand. It's a far easier surgery than deep brain electrical stimulation, and, if it works, a far more precise treatment. Researchers at Stanford are currently testing the device on primates. If all goes well, they will seek FDA approval for experiments in humans.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Postby barracuda » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:00 am

I hadn't heard of it before, justdrew, but I knew that doctors had been breaking up kidney stones with ultrasound for some time now, so it seems logical that a focused sound pulse could wriggle a little wrinkle in the old noodle for ya. Good luck to your friend; epilepsy can be a rough thing to deal with. Better be gentle with that new tech, though, 'cause the crowd control implications are clear enough.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby elfismiles » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:19 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:
elfismiles wrote:Thanks peeps!

Thank you LB for remembering the thread. And thanks can1exy for that youtube link.

I serve on the board of a local non-profit and this is actually an area of research we've been moving towards for the last ten years.

Thank you all. :D


You've got to be kidding - that's amazing. You should post about it, I'm sure RigInt would be interested.

I shared all this stuff with my other messageboard and now they're all freaked out.


Yep LB. I'm serious. Can't say much about it publicly at this point though.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests