MC and delusions (loads of TRIGGERS)

[Cordelia]

^^
I've been silent for years and have been trying to find some answers (not that they're going to be available) to long-held suspicians.

What some posters have written here has been tremendously helpful to me, which I usually sort out without posting a response, but I think you're right, these are to personal and sensitive for an open board.

I'm not sure if what I've left in will make any sense, out of context to what I deleted, and if not, I'll delete that also.

[Free]

Cordelia wrote:

I've been silent for years and have been trying to find some answers (not that they're going to be available) to long-held suspicians.

Whoa Cordelia,

Please don't take what I said in the wrong way. You haven't done anything wrong. I'm just concerned about safety. Now that you've answered my question I'm going to try to write something.

Free

[Cordelia]

Whoa Cordelia, Please don't take what I said in the wrong way. You haven't done anything wrong. I'm just concerned about safety.Free

Thanks, I didn't. I was asking myself the same thing, so it was a wake-up call. Besides, I was also writing about people who are still alive, and that didn't feel right. It was a relief to delete it.

Plus, even if trolls and interlopers are silent, it doesn't mean they're not present.

[Free]

Safety...

I guess I'm nervous about you, Cordelia (and Brigit), because it seems to me that you've posted enough information for someone to be able to identify you...and you are in your early stages of recovery. Anyone can read this stuff, including perps that know you and others that you don't know.

(BTW - The night phone call you described Cordelia, sounds like an attempt to access you.)

I'm not nervous about sw and Willow, because I know they've been in treatment for many years and therefore are equipped to make more informed decisions about how they approach their security issues.

Why am I concerned about you and the others who are newer in their healing around this?

First of all, I want to say that these are my opinions, I would never dream of trying to tell anyone what to do or what to share or not to share here. Take what makes sense to you, leave the rest, and I hope I don't offend anyone in any way because I have a lot of respect for all the survivors who have been participating in this conversation.

What do I see as the dangers?

The biggest danger I see for those who are new in their recovery from systematized abuse or trauma based mind control is the possibility that they still could be being accessed. With this, I'm not saying that you ARE being accessed. There is no way that I can know that.

The truth is, though, that until a survivor deals with identifying programmed alters and helping them see that times have changed, and has dissolved enough of the amnesia to determine who the major perps are and has taken steps to shut them out of their life, they may be at risk of being accessed.

The saying "We have found the enemy, and he is us." is really fitting here.

This needs to be done by way of inner work, hopefully guided by a capable therapist, while building a support system. Dialoging with alters, memory work, looking inside to find out our truth and our story- it may be painful but I don't think that there's any way to get around it. It's also a great relief, a wondrous healing, and a spiritual path.

I strongly disagree with the notion that we can listen to the stories of others, see what resonates with us and imagine what probably happened to us, even if we base it on common sense. I have been constantly surprised, when I would get to my real memories around some event or time period, how any speculation I might have indulged in was almost always (at least partially) wrong.

The programmed alter system has a life of it's own, with its' own vital energy (as in acupuncture meridians). Until it's dismantled and the real, intrinsic you takes over your body, you could be seen by perps as a programmed plum, ripe for the picking.

Before the programmed system falls, you can learn about your cues, triggers and who the dangerous people from your past are. With that knowledge, plus intuition and spiritual protection (however you see this) you can keep yourself safe from those who may try to access you in some way.

You may say that you don't know if you have a programmed alter system. Well it's best to find out, because, in this case, what you don't know CAN hurt you.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't sound harsh, I just want everyone to be safe here. There have to be ways that we can exchange information and support without putting ourselves in danger.....

[Cordelia]

Thanks for your input. I don't know that anywhere is safe.

I'm going to stop, at least for now.

[sw]

There are safe places. I felt very safe in group therapy and individual therapy. I feel safe talking to some very good friends too.

It might be safe to talk to others but they are not open to it. Some just don't want to hear it others are unable to grasp it.

Talking has been very helpful to me...even on this board. But, I've been in recovery since 1992. Some days I don't feel that recovered but I am lightyears better than I was earlier. I am integrated now too.

As you can tell from my post history, I deleted most of what I posted more because I knew people at my work were reading it and at times because I would post something, feel great, and then feel terror.

The hardest part about telling is staying unattached to the outcome. People may attack you or not believe you. That is part of telling. If telling puts you in danger, don't tell it here. There are way better places to talk that are safer. Free, LBO and the others offer great advice. Their advice helps me too.

Good Luck to you and may you reach the peace inside of you.

[American Dream]

I would just add that here we are leaving what is essentially a permanent and public record- though of course it is possible to retroactively delete things, too.

So certain things are appropriate and other things are not.

This will vary from person to person, and maybe from time to time...

Fortunately there are many ways to get support and/or to communicate with others, so we don't have to rely on this board for all of it...

[Brigit]

delete

[LilyPatToo]

It was interesting to come here after a day on airplanes and then a day of jet-lag and try to catch up. Oy. As I've already said, my conscious deliberate choice since the fall of 2004 has been to go ahead and share what I feel is safe for me to share. This subject is so deeply covert and riddled with mis- and disinformation and confusion that it's been mostly in the information shared by other survivors that I've managed to figure out WTF happened to me. Other people's experiences were especially helpful in enabling me to know where to look in my own past for clues.

That said, I fully understand and honor the decision of others to not share information. And I mean that. Trauma survivors have enough problems with emotional regulation that I would never want anyone to do anything that makes coping more difficult for them.

Back in the beginning, when I posted about some of my personal mysteries that were suddenly being explained, my house was entered twice, my (then very few) folders full of mind control info left open on my computer's desktop and my chair and the computer's screen itself were moved and left that way for me to find...along with a stomped, smashed little faerie figurine that sat by the computer. And the young alter with whom I'd been co-conscious with almost daily vanished (into a locked room in my mind, as it turned out)

But my reaction was deep anger and determined opposition and I have reason to believe that I actually got a handler removed from my case after I'd provoked him into a really foolish confrontation in public. Now, of course, I'm older and a bit wiser and am appalled by what I did 5 years ago I had no clue. (But I'm also glad I did it--I really hated that guy)

Eventually, the interference and yearly accessings stopped, despite my posting almost daily online about what I'd managed to figure out. (Perhaps they saw that no one who was likely to cause them any serious problem was likely to believe me...dunno) Over the years, I've made some hopefully lifelong friends out of other survivors. Today, I was able to meet one of them in person for the first time, after knowing him for a long time--we think perhaps as long as 6 or 7 years What a wonderful thing that was, even jet-lagged and very tired.

LilyPat

[lightningBugout]

I think this thread has strayed a bit too far from its goal. The personal stories are great, but they would be more appropriate on this thread if they really specifically referred back to the topic at hand.

Jeff hasn't made any warning, so I suppose we're fine, but I think this thread is a bit too close to being the sort of support that he cautions against in the board guidelines.

Just my 2c.

[Free]

LBO wrote:

I think this thread has strayed a bit too far from its goal. The personal stories are great, but they would be more appropriate on this thread if they really specifically referred back to the topic at hand.

Jeff hasn't made any warning, so I suppose we're fine, but I think this thread is a bit too close to being the sort of support that he cautions against in the board guidelines.

Just my 2c.

I think you may be right LBO. Everyone (including myself) should probably read Jeff's ***content advisory*** at the top of the General Discussion board.

I think that there's an art to sharing in support groups which is very, very different from sharing on an internet discussion forum. To get the most out of sharing in a support group, I center myself and speak as honestly and spontaneously as possible about my true feelings in that moment. Expressing myself and connecting with others in this way has been a tremendously healing and nurturing experience.

But support groups have rules and guidelines to insure safety and confidentiality such as:

*no crosstalk and feedback (no commenting on people's shares or stepping in to give advice).
*respect of anonymity and confidentiality- repeating what others have shared is prohibited.

Also, you know who is in the room, and can assess their trustworthiness by their speech and body language. (It's true that anyone can show up and that cults and perps have been known to try to infiltrate these groups.)

On the other hand, here in this (and other) internet forums:

* everything we say is open to attack
* we have no idea who the hell people are behind their screen names. It's true that, over time, a person may establish a certain track record by their behavior, but there are all kinds of deceptions that have been perpetrated, even on this board.

...There are ARG players (it's hard for me to believe that people would waste their time in this way but apparently they do) who go onto discussion boards to deliberately deceive. There have even been deaths that might have been in some way linked to ARGs, so this is serious stuff.

...MC and cult perps flock to these boards to do damage control, find victims, etc.

I'm just skimming the surface, but ...I can barely imagine a more unsafe environment for a support group.

This is not to say that no one should share their experiences, (and again the last thing I want to do is seem like I'm trying to tell anyone what to do) but it's different, I think, to share a snippet of personal experience in the context of a discussion, to illustrate a point, while staying in the ball park of the topic, than to go free form in a search for "healing through feeling"...


edited for grammar mistakes

[Avalon]

I would just add that here we are leaving what is essentially a permanent and public record- though of course it is possible to retroactively delete things, too.

So certain things are appropriate and other things are not.

This will vary from person to person, and maybe from time to time...

Fortunately there are many ways to get support and/or to communicate with others, so we don't have to rely on this board for all of it...

Do not assume that this is a permanent and public record.

This board can be totally deleted in a matter of minutes if Jeff or his heirs (who's in charge if you die or are incapacitated, Jeff?) want to, or if something happens to the server and its backup. (Uh, it is backed up off premises, isn't it, Jeff?)

Which is not to say that things that would better not be left for the ages will not be saved by those you'd rather not see archiving them.

[Maddy]

OP

In the spirit of the OP, I was digging around and came up with a crapload of videos on You Tube while Googling "Monarch" and "Mind Control" and so forth.

How do we know who, and what, to believe? Who are these people, who are giving us all of this information? (Not, of course, questioning those here who are survivors, but the public figureheads.)

This one, linked below, is obviously full of all kinds of offbeat, strange information, and so forth. A lot of things that could be triggering, along with a few bits, such as this woman (who is she?and I think the blonde is Cathy O'Brien, and the man is Springmeier?) seen, which might be true, or misinformation. And how much of the misinformation is flying around misleading real survivors from finding out the truth? (I personally do not even comprehend much of the montage used in this video, fwiw.) There is so much out there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LayC_-mEe9g

[lightningBugout]

I'm willing to step out on a limb and say not a single one of these videos is accurate enough to be of any value, other than allowing a survivor to validate that MC is real.

[LilyPatToo]

Maddy asked:

How do we know who, and what, to believe? Who are these people, who are giving us all of this information? (Not, of course, questioning those here who are survivors, but the public figureheads.)

In my continuing quest to successfully ignore the Thanksgiving Day sports blaring from the relatives' TV, I Google Image searched some of the higher-profile trauma-based mind control survivors.

Arizona Wilder:



Cathy O'Brien & Mark Phillips:


Cisco Wheeler:


Fritz Springmeier:


Sue Ford:


Kathleen Sullivan:


Carol Rutz:


Of course, there's no objective way to know how credible any of them (or any of us posting here) truly are, but after reading some of their self-published autobiographies, I tend to believe some more than others. But even then, the more information I gather over the years, the more that some of what even the most credible among them have said becomes suspect. I'm not implying deliberate deception at all, though--I believe that all of us have layer upon layer of implanted disinfo memories that were designed to invalidate us if our programming ever began to break down and we spoke out.

Not every survivor of extreme trauma is going to be able to glean valuable clues from the accounts of other survivors, but many are able to do so eventually, once they've become familiar with some of the disinfo themes that recur again and again in survivor testimony. Rereading accounts with those themes in mind can be helpful in separating wheat from chaff.

LilyPat