Blackwater Approved $1 Million in Iraqi Payments

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Blackwater Approved $1 Million in Iraqi Payments

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:17 pm

Blackwater Said to Approve Iraqi Payoffs After Shootings

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From left, Gerry Broome/AP; Mark Wilson/Getty; Brendan Smialowski for NYTFrom left, Gary Jackson, then-president of Blackwater; Cofer Black, then-vice president of Blackwater; and Erik Prince, chairman and founder.

MARK MAZZETTI and JAMES RISEN
Published: November 10, 2009

WASHINGTON — Top executives at Blackwater Worldwide authorized secret payments of about $1 million to Iraqi officials that were intended to silence their criticism and buy their support after a September 2007 episode in which Blackwater security guards fatally shot 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad, according to former company officials.

Blackwater approved the cash payments in December 2007, the officials said, as protests over the deadly shootings in Nisour Square stoked long-simmering anger inside Iraq about reckless practices by the security company’s employees. American and Iraqi investigators had already concluded that the shootings were unjustified, top Iraqi officials were calling for Blackwater’s ouster from the country and company officials feared that Blackwater might be refused an operating license it would need to retain its contracts with the State Department and private clients, worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

Four former Blackwater executives said in interviews that Gary Jackson, who was then the company’s president, had approved the bribes, and the money was sent from Amman, Jordan, where Blackwater maintains an operations hub, to a top manager in Iraq. The executives, though, said they did not know whether the cash was delivered to Iraqi officials or the identities of the potential recipients.

Blackwater’s strategy of buying off the government officials, which would have been illegal under American law, created a deep rift inside the company, according to the former executives. They said that Cofer Black, who was then the company’s vice chairman and a former top C.I.A. and State Department official, learned of the plan from another Blackwater manager while he was in Baghdad discussing compensation for families of the shooting victims with United States Embassy officials.

Alarmed about the secret payments, Mr. Black cut short his talks and left Iraq. Soon after returning to the United States, he confronted Erik Prince, the company’s chairman and founder, who did not dispute that there was a bribery plan, according to a former Blackwater executive familiar with the meeting. Mr. Black resigned the following year.

Stacy DeLuke, a company spokeswoman, dismissed the allegations as “baseless” and said the company would not comment about former employees. Mr. Black did not respond to telephone calls and e-mail messages seeking comment.

Reached by phone, Mr. Jackson, who resigned as president of Blackwater early this year, criticized The New York Times and said, “I don’t care what you write.”

The four former Blackwater executives, who had held high-ranking posts at the company, would speak only on condition of anonymity. Two of them said they took part in talks about the payments; the two others said they had been told by several Blackwater officials about the discussions. In agreeing to describe those conversations, the four officials said that they were troubled by a pattern of questionable conduct by Blackwater, which had led them to leave the company.

Blackwater continued operating as the prime contractor providing security for the United States Embassy in Baghdad until spring, when the Iraqi government said it would deny the company an operating license. The State Department replaced Blackwater with a rival company in May, but Blackwater still does some work for the department in Iraq on a temporary basis.

Five Blackwater guards involved in the shooting are facing federal manslaughter charges and their trial is scheduled to start in February in Washington. A sixth guard pleaded guilty in December. Blackwater, now known as Xe Services, has never faced criminal charges in the case, although the Iraqi victims brought a civil lawsuit in federal court against the company and Mr. Prince.

Separately, a federal grand jury in North Carolina, where Blackwater has its headquarters, has been conducting a lengthy investigation into the company. One of the former executives said that he had told federal prosecutors there about the plan to pay Iraqi officials to drop their inquiries into the Nisour Square case. If Blackwater followed through, the company or its officials could face charges of obstruction of justice and violating the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which bans bribes to foreign officials.

Officials at the United States Attorney’s Office in Raleigh declined to comment on their investigation, and it is not clear whether the payment scheme is a focus of the grand jury


Federal prosecutors in North Carolina have interviewed a number of former Blackwater employees about a variety of issues, including allegations of weapons smuggling, according to several former Blackwater workers who say they have testified before the grand jury or been interviewed by prosecutors, as well as lawyers familiar with the matter. Two former employees have pleaded guilty to weapons charges and are believed to be cooperating with prosecutors.

Since 2001, Blackwater has undergone explosive growth, not only from security contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also from classified work for the Central Intelligence Agency that included taking part in a now-defunct program to assassinate leaders of Al Qaeda and to load missiles on Predator drones.

The Nisour Square shooting was the bloodiest and most controversial episode involving Blackwater in the Iraq war. At midday on Sept. 16, 2007, a Blackwater convoy opened fire on Iraqi civilians in the midst of the crowded intersection, spraying automatic weapons fire in ways that investigators later claimed was indiscriminate and even launching grenades into a nearby school. Seventeen Iraqis were killed and dozens more were wounded.

The matter set off an international outcry and intense debates in Iraq and the United States over the role of private contractors in war zones. Many Iraqis condemned Blackwater, which they had long seen as an arrogant, rogue operation, and Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki declared that the Blackwater shooting was a challenge to his nation’s sovereignty. His government opened investigations into the episode and previous fatal shootings by Blackwater guards, and threatened to bar the company from operating in the country.

Those responses deeply worried Blackwater officials. Before the Nisour Square shootings, the company had operated in Iraq without a license largely because the Iraqi government had never enforced the rules. Being blocked from the country would have been costly — the State Department deal was Blackwater’s single biggest contract. From 2004 through today, the company has collected more than $1.5 billion for its work protecting American diplomats and providing air transportation for them inside Iraq.

“It would hurt us,” Mr. Prince, the chairman, said in an interview in January about losing the diplomatic security contract. “It would not be a mortal blow, but it would hurt us.”

The former Blackwater executives said it was not clear who proposed paying off Iraqi officials. But after Mr. Jackson, the former company president, approved the plan, the cash for the payoffs was taken from Amman and given to Rich Garner, then a top manager in Iraq, the former executives said. One of those executives said that officials in Iraq’s Interior Ministry, which is responsible for operating licenses, were the intended recipients.

Mr. Garner, who still works for Blackwater, could not be reached for comment. The former executives said they did not know whether Mr. Garner was involved in decisions about the bribery scheme.

At that time, Mr. Black was in a series of discussions with Patricia A. Butenis, the deputy chief of mission at the American Embassy in Baghdad, about compensation payments to the Nisour Square victims. According to former Blackwater officials, Mr. Black was furious when he learned that the payoff money was being funneled into Iraq, and he swiftly broke off the talks with Ms. Butenis.

“We are out of here,” Mr. Black told a colleague, one former executive said. After returning to the United States, Mr. Black and Robert Richer, who had also joined Blackwater after a C.I.A. career, separately confronted Mr. Prince with their concerns about the plan, one former Blackwater executive said.

Mr. Richer left Blackwater in February 2008, followed by Mr. Black several months later, amid a battle inside Blackwater between former C.I.A. officers working at the company’s office outside Washington and executives at Blackwater’s headquarters in North Carolina.

The former officials said that Mr. Black, Mr. Richer and others believed that Blackwater had cultivated a cowboy culture that was contemptuous of government rules and regulations, and that some of the company’s leaders — former members of the Navy Seals including Mr. Prince and Mr. Jackson — had pushed the boundaries of legality. Contacted by telephone, Mr. Richer would not discuss specifics of why he left the company.

A senior State Department official said that American diplomats were not aware of any payoffs to Iraqi officials. Ms. Butenis, now the United States ambassador to Sri Lanka, declined to comment for this article. But other State Department officials confirmed that embassy officials had met with Blackwater executives to encourage them to compensate the victims of Nisour Square.

The United States military had a well-established program for paying families of civilian victims of American military operations, but at the time of the Nisour Square shooting, the State Department did not have a similar program, officials said.

In interviews, three Iraqis wounded in Nisour Square said that Blackwater had made payments of several thousand dollars to them and other victims. Still, some of them joined the civil lawsuit against Blackwater. Settlement talks collapsed Tuesday, according to Susan Burke, a lawyer for the victims.

Even after the furor that was set off by the shootings, State Department officials made it clear that they did not believe they could operate in Baghdad without Blackwater, and Iraqi officials eventually dropped their public demands for the company’s immediate ouster.

Raed Jarrar, the Iraq consultant to the American Friends Service Committee, said in a recent interview that the Maliki government had gone too easy on Blackwater. “They had two different messages,” he said. “The Iraqi public, and even the Iraqi Parliament, was told that all private contractors would be pulled out of the country, while the contractors and the State Department were told the opposite.”

In late 2008, the Bush administration and the Iraqi government hammered out an agreement governing the role of security contractors in Iraq. Under the new rules, security contractors lost their immunity from Iraqi laws, which had been granted in 2004 by L. Paul Bremer III, the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority, which ran the country after the start of the American-led war. The Iraqi government also made it mandatory for security contractors to obtain licenses to operate in the country.

In March 2009, the Iraqis said that Blackwater would not be awarded a license. Two months later, the State Department replaced the company with a competing security contractor, Triple Canopy.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:05 pm

Since 2001, Blackwater has undergone explosive growth, not only from security contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also from classified work for the Central Intelligence Agency that included taking part in a now-defunct program to assassinate leaders of Al Qaeda and to load missiles on Predator drones.


Ironic, given even from a non conspiratorial point of view there doesn't seem to be much difference between Blackwater and al Qaeda(aside from out in the open state financing)
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Postby Nordic » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:43 pm

It's kind of amazing how much better Jeremy Scahill's article is this same subject than the NY Times. Then again, I guess it's not "amazing" considering what we now know about the NY Times, but ... maybe "astounding" is a better word:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091123/scahill
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Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:27 am

Nordic wrote:It's kind of amazing how much better Jeremy Scahill's article is this same subject than the NY Times. Then again, I guess it's not "amazing" considering what we now know about the NY Times, but ... maybe "astounding" is a better word:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091123/scahill



Thanks for that Nordic
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Postby American Dream » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:51 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... l-sanction

The Blackwater plot deepens

For all the scandal, the mercenary firm has escaped any severe legal sanction. That could now change

Jeremy Scahill
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 11 November 2009 18.00 GMT


The mercenary firm Blackwater has become a symbol of the utter lawlessness and criminality that permeates the privatised wing of the US war machine. The company's operatives have shot dead scores of Iraqi and Afghan civilians, while former employees allege in sworn statements that Blackwater's owner Erik Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe", and that Prince's companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life". Five Blackwater employees will stand trial in federal court in the US on charges that they slaughtered 14 innocent Iraqis, while a sixth Blackwater operative has already pleaded guilty. The company faces allegations of illicit weapons-smuggling and tax evasion, and is being sued for war crimes. The private army is under fire. And yet, despite all the action, none of the legal bullets has – to date – landed a serious blow.

An explosive report in the New York Times today could change that. The paper alleges that in the aftermath of the infamous 2007 Nisour Square massacre of 17 Iraqi civilians, top Blackwater officials "authorised secret payments" of about $1m into Iraq intending to bribe officials to allow Blackwater to remain in Iraq despite Baghdad's position that the company would be banned and the killers prosecuted. Blackwater continued to operate in Iraq for two years after the Iraqis announced the company would be kicked out – a fact that has baffled and angered Iraqis. In fact, Blackwater remains in Iraq to this day on a $200m contract that was recently extended by the Obama administration. The new report, if true, could help explain why Blackwater has survived so long in Iraq. It could also be a window into what may become the most serious legal issue facing Prince and other executives.

Claims that Prince was aware of the bribery scheme – and that his deputy, the company president Gary Jackson, directed the transfer of the money to Blackwater's hub in Jordan, from where it was funneled to a top Blackwater manager in Iraq – are reported in the New York Times. Such actions would be illegal under US law. At the time of the alleged bribery scheme, FBI agents were on the ground in Baghdad conducting a criminal investigation of the incident and were, in part, relying on the cooperation of Iraqi officials – particularly from Iraq's interior ministry, the alleged intended recipients. If true, that means that Blackwater or its executives could face charges of obstruction of justice. There is a grand jury investigating Blackwater in its home state of North Carolina.

Blackwater swiftly denounced the story as "baseless", while a former Blackwater official – the CIA veteran Cofer Black – denied the New York Times's claim that he confronted Prince over the bribery. Jackson told the paper: "I don't care what you write."

Among the most serious issues raised by this scandal is who else may have been involved. Was Blackwater freelancing or was there government involvement? At the time of the alleged bribery plan, Blackwater worked hand-in-glove with the Bush administration and, at times, the two forces colluded. Following the Nisour Square massacre, evidence emerged of a clear pattern of the state department urging Blackwater to pay what amounted to hush money to Iraqi victims' families. "In cases involving the death of Iraqis, it appears that the state department's primary response was to ask Blackwater to make monetary payments to 'put the matter behind us', rather than to insist upon accountability or to investigate Blackwater personnel for potential criminal liability," according to a report of the House Oversight Committee released in late 2007.

After a drunken Blackwater guard allegedly shot and killed an Iraqi bodyguard inside the Green Zone on Christmas Eve 2006, the Charge d'Affaires of the US embassy in Iraq initially suggested Blackwater make a $250,000 payment but the department's diplomatic security service said this was too much and could cause Iraqis to "try to get killed so as to set up their family financially". In the end, the state department and Blackwater reportedly agreed on a $15,000 payment. During his Congressional testimony in October 2007, Erik Prince corrected that figure, saying Blackwater had actually paid $20,000. In another case, in al Hillah in June 2005, a Blackwater operator killed an "apparently innocent bystander" and the state department requested that Blackwater pay the family $5,000. "Can you tell me how it was determined that this man's life was worth $5,000?" Representative Danny Davis asked Prince when he appeared before the US Congress. "We don't determine that value, sir," Prince responded. "That's kind of an Iraqi-wide policy. We don't make that one."

After Nisour Square, the Iraqi government eventually demanded $8 million in compensation for each victim. In the end, the state department, on behalf of Blackwater, offered family members between $10,000-12,500, which many of them refused.

Blackwater and the US state department had a mutual interest in keeping the company in Iraq. The company provided the elite bodyguards for occupation officials and when Blackwater stopped work for three days after Nisour Square, those officials could not leave their fortress in the Green Zone. For Blackwater, the contract meant big money--more than $1 billion. In the aftermath of Nisour Square, then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other officials basically read the riot act to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and Blackwater was back to business in Iraq on the fourth day after the massacre and remains in the country. After Nisour Square, one US diplomat described the relationship between the US Embassy's security office in Baghdad and Blackwater. "They draw the wagon circle," the diplomat said. "They protect each other. They look out for each other. I don't know if that's a good thing, that wall of silence. When it protects the guilty, that is definitely not a good thing."

While the Bush administration certainly protected Blackwater after Nisour Square, part of the reason for the alleged or attempted bribes may be this: as the US and Iraq negotiated the Status of Forces Agreement and the Iraqi government attempted to impose more authority over private military companies, the stakes got higher for Blackwater. An official licence to operate in Iraq, which Blackwater did not have and long believed was an unnecessary formality, became crucial for Blackwater in order to continue on as the state department's prime contractor. To many Iraqis, Blackwater's continued presence was a stark symbol of the country's lack of sovereignty. It is an incredible fact that Blackwater has remained as long as it has in the country given the severity and extent of its alleged crimes and the rhetoric from Iraqi political figures about the company. It was not until March 2009 that the Iraqi government announced it would not extend Blackwater an operating licence. In May 2009, Blackwater's prime contract was awarded to competitor Triple Canopy, but a downsized Blackwater remains armed in Iraq. And the company continues to do robust business with the US government elsewhere.

Today, Blackwater works in Afghanistan for the state department, the CIA and the defence department. It protects US officials there and guards visiting congressional delegations. Democratic Representative Jan Schakowsky, a close friend of President Obama, says she was guarded by Blackwater on a recent trip to Afghanistan and that the company is involved with the security details of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Ambassador Richard Holbrooke when they visit the country. But as the investigations into Blackwater deepen and the scandals expand, perhaps the most urgent question is this: why does President Obama continue to use this company?
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Postby anothershamus » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:54 am

Just another piece of the puzzle. If Obama is afraid we should be VERY AFRAID!

full link here: http://rawstory.com/2009/11/scahill-obama-afraid-blackwater/

Scahill: Obama may be afraid of Blackwater

By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Wednesday, November 11th, 2009 -- 3:30 pm

blackwatermassacreiraq Scahill: Obama may be afraid of BlackwaterDespite news reports that the security contractor formerly known as Blackwater has seen its contracts dry up and its influence wane, the company continues to do brisk business in Iraq and Afghanistan -- and the Obama administration may be too afraid of the firm to do anything about it, says investigative reporter Jeremy Scahill.

"You know who's guarding Hillary Clinton in Afghanistan right now? Blackwater," Scahill told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow Tuesday night. "You know who guards members of Congress? Blackwater. They have half a billion dollars in contracts in Afghanistan right now. CIA, State Department, Defense Department. Why is President Obama keeping these guys on the payroll? There has never been a company in recent history that made the case that corporations are corrupt, evil organizations [better] than Blackwater."

Scahill was on The Rachel Maddow Show discussing the New York Times' revelation that senior Blackwater executives allegedly arranged for bribes of up to $1 million for Iraqi politicians in a bid to retain its contracts and silence criticism of the company in the wake of the Nissour Square massacre in 2007, in which 17 Iraqi civilians died after Blackwater guards opened fire.

Though the Times report stated that it's unknown if the approved bribes ever reached their targets -- Iraqi politicians -- Scahill drew a connection between the alleged bribes and the fact that, after the Nissour Sqaure massacre, the Iraqi government first decided to bar Blackwater from operating in the country, and then reversed its position.

"You had the Iraqi government saying Blackwater was banned from that country, then suddenly doing an about face, and Blackwater remains in Iraq to this day," Scahill said.
)'(
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Postby American Dream » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:48 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126229226969112429.html

DECEMBER 31, 2009, 3:49 P.M. ET

Judge Dismisses Charges in Blackwater Shooting

Associated Press



WASHINGTON — A federal judge dismissed all charges against five Blackwater Worldwide security guards charged in a deadly Baghdad shooting.

U.S. District Judge Ricardo Urbina said Thursday that the Justice Department overstepped its bounds and wrongly used evidence it wasn't allowed to see. He said the government's explanations have been contradictory, unbelievable and not credible.

Blackwater contractors were hired to guard State Department diplomats in Iraq. Prosecutors say the guards fired on unarmed civilians in a busy intersection in 2007, killing innocent people.

After the shooting, the guards gave statements to State Department investigators. Prosecutors weren't allowed to use those statements in the case.
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Postby FreeLancer » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:01 pm

Dick Cheney and Blackwater just keep on making up the rules as they go along. Well, if they can bribe Iraqi officials I'm sure they can make judges here look the other way. Sickening.
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Postby Nordic » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:42 am

American Dream wrote:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126229226969112429.html

DECEMBER 31, 2009, 3:49 P.M. ET

Judge Dismisses Charges in Blackwater Shooting

Associated Press



WASHINGTON — A federal judge dismissed all charges against five Blackwater Worldwide security guards charged in a deadly Baghdad shooting.

U.S. District Judge Ricardo Urbina said Thursday that the Justice Department overstepped its bounds and wrongly used evidence it wasn't allowed to see. He said the government's explanations have been contradictory, unbelievable and not credible.

Blackwater contractors were hired to guard State Department diplomats in Iraq. Prosecutors say the guards fired on unarmed civilians in a busy intersection in 2007, killing innocent people.

After the shooting, the guards gave statements to State Department investigators. Prosecutors weren't allowed to use those statements in the case.



Hm, something tells me said judge might just be a little afraid of Blackwater.

Organized crime. It's scary.
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Postby Uncle $cam » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:50 am

Not only that, but I find the DOJ news dump timing typical of his predecessor...
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Postby 82_28 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:34 am

My goodness.

Not to get all meta-conspiracy on all y'all. But these ladies in red that have been showing up. The pope attacker, the Whitehouse crashers and yes, even Obama's own wife in her beautiful black widow gown, seem to point to the Bill Hick's moment.

Any questions?

http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/06/that ... oment.html

But here's the deal that I still ponder: What if Obama is a kind of "reality show" president that has all sorts of acknowledged anomalies in which have been designed a built-in a&&a**ination or an attempt of such? But being a reality show anymore this shit for brains reality we inhabit, he doesn't get a**a**inated in the real way heads of state get waxed. But instead is toppled in the same sense Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled by a "primordial Glenn Beck" of that not so distant time.

Other things of note, are the associations with Obama and Lincoln. Obama and space travel. The Lincoln car commercials are a hoot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_JGDO3X87g

How the hell is Lincoln still standing and not Saab? I know, way out there. But how?

Here's another Lincoln commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7E1xcGgRzU

Now here is a Lincoln/MERCURY commercial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8YUMgVtYiU

All of this came out btw at the first of the year.

What do pennies represent? Poverty.

Who's likeness do we find on the penny? A certain assassinated dude who oversaw the "end" of slavery.

Indeed.

Now, the "bailouts". Who is it we have symbolically overseeing them? Obama. The Obama Penny is forthcoming! Except it won't be a coin.

Cash for Clunkers?

Ford/Lincoln/Mercury: the best performing auto people there are supposedly.

Now let's head to space.

Sorry if none of that made any sense. Glean what you can.
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Postby 8bitagent » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:51 am

82_28 wrote:My goodness.

Not to get all meta-conspiracy on all y'all. But these ladies in red that have been showing up. The pope attacker, the Whitehouse crashers and yes, even Obama's own wife in her beautiful black widow gown, seem to point to the Bill Hick's moment.

Any questions?

http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/06/that ... oment.html


Well it's all blended into synchronicity/synchromysticism/synarchy.
UFO balloon boy, Obama, underpants bomber, swine flu. All buzzwords from the weekly world news. I mean the single biggest dow drop in modern history is -777 and noone bats an eye. Every day is an RI film festival in the news.


82_28 wrote:But here's the deal that I still ponder: What if Obama is a kind of "reality show" president that has all sorts of acknowledged anomalies in which have been designed a built-in a&&a**ination or an attempt of such?


Pretty much, you hit it. I knew back in 2006 the elite tapped Obama to win, and he'd come in a bundled package of false
left promises but also dangerous fodder for the right wing fringe.

Obama is TAILOR MADE for the iGeneration post post 9/11 "think solution" instant hot media world. Why why oh why did so many people think Mccain would "win"? Or that the elite would rig the election for him?
It was clear from the damn beginning Obama was meant to win, and serve as a puppet while they threw everything at him they could. He is not JFK. Nor Reagan. He's a wholly imagine new character, who most likely still has his soul and mind, but just can't see whats really going on. I fear for him.

Life blurred into being a scripted reality show a long time ago:)

82_28 wrote: But being a reality show anymore this shit for brains reality we inhabit, he doesn't get a**a**inated in the real way heads of state get waxed. But instead is toppled in the same sense Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled by a "primordial Glenn Beck" of that not so distant time.


I dont like to speculate. The elite are very creative. All I know is I am disturbed by all the reports of a lax secret service. Of course, I can think of things more shocking than a simple a-word that the elite probably have in mind to really shake America to its core.

82_28 wrote:Other things of note, are the associations with Obama and Lincoln. Obama and space travel. The Lincoln car commercials are a hoot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_JGDO3X87g

How the hell is Lincoln still standing and not Saab? I know, way out there. But how?


Hell, why has every single major film since the mid 1990's about an apocalyptic disaster featured a black presidenhttp://arttattler.com/Images/Eu ... erial.jpgt?
From 1997's Fifth Element and 1998's Deep Impact to 2009's "2012"?

Also, your mention of the symbolic deep state sync connection to America's fixation lust for cars reminds me of this bizarre avant garde film:
The Cremaster Cycle:

Image

Image

Image

trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTwt31GXOOw

Probably the most menacing, mezmerizing, fucked up, astonishing, visionary and jaw dropping film Ive ever seen.
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Postby elfismiles » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:30 pm

:shock: Yowza 82_28! Some interesting observations. I've seen all 3 of those commercials and they each hit my own personal deep-nostalgia buttons.

On Hicksian moments ... I don't have the level of "advertising allegery" described in Gibson's PATTERN RECOGNITION but ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgUWTquztGY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4GGM-fpWVs
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