How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:10 am

Harvey and Dr Evil, I am not disputing that the world is in a warming period, but my point is that it has all happened before. Climate change is a given, it is either getting warmer or it is getting cooler, at the moment it is getting warmer, the world was a couple of degree warmer than it is today for a couple of thousand years during the Holocene Period from 5,000 to 3,000 BC.

Have a look at the changes in temperature over the last 10,000 years, this s the sort of climate change we should expect going forward. http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html

And it occurs to me looking at the graphs, that the warmer periods are better for humanity than the colder, but I am a goldilocks type and don't like it too hot, nor too cold. Please...
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:03 pm

BenDhyan » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:10 pm wrote:Harvey and Dr Evil, I am not disputing that the world is in a warming period, but my point is that it has all happened before. Climate change is a given, it is either getting warmer or it is getting cooler, at the moment it is getting warmer, the world was a couple of degree warmer than it is today for a couple of thousand years during the Holocene Period from 5,000 to 3,000 BC.

Have a look at the changes in temperature over the last 10,000 years, this s the sort of climate change we should expect going forward. http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html

And it occurs to me looking at the graphs, that the warmer periods are better for humanity than the colder, but I am a goldilocks type and don't like it too hot, nor too cold. Please...


It's getting warmer because of us. It's not a natural cycle, and it's happening extremely fast. That is incredibly dangerous. The warming we're seeing right now with heat records being broken left and right, year after year, is from all the shit we pumped into the atmosphere years ago. It's only going to get worse, even if we stop all emissions today.

The climate has been relatively stable throughout recorded history, and that's one of the reasons we have recorded history.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:14 pm

DrEvil » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:03 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:10 pm wrote:Harvey and Dr Evil, I am not disputing that the world is in a warming period, but my point is that it has all happened before. Climate change is a given, it is either getting warmer or it is getting cooler, at the moment it is getting warmer, the world was a couple of degree warmer than it is today for a couple of thousand years during the Holocene Period from 5,000 to 3,000 BC.

Have a look at the changes in temperature over the last 10,000 years, this s the sort of climate change we should expect going forward. http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html

And it occurs to me looking at the graphs, that the warmer periods are better for humanity than the colder, but I am a goldilocks type and don't like it too hot, nor too cold. Please...


It's getting warmer because of us. It's not a natural cycle, and it's happening extremely fast. That is incredibly dangerous. The warming we're seeing right now with heat records being broken left and right, year after year, is from all the shit we pumped into the atmosphere years ago. It's only going to get worse, even if we stop all emissions today.

The climate has been relatively stable throughout recorded history, and that's one of the reasons we have recorded history.

Have a look at the changes in temperature over the last 10,000 years, this s the sort of climate change we should expect going forward. It is not stable. http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby thrulookingglass » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:38 pm

Noah’s children thought the weather was great. Don’t ask anyone else’s.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:05 pm

DrEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:03 pm wrote:
It's getting warmer because of us.


Not necessarily. Probably unlikely as a sole factor.

And what do you mean by "us"? Certainly not the poor or struggling classes. How is this narrative being used to manipulate sentiment towards ends that will benefit only the minority?


DrEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:03 pm wrote:The climate has been relatively stable throughout recorded history, and that's one of the reasons we have recorded history.


Relatively is the key term. And recorded history is barely a blip on the radar when considering life and conditions on this earth historically.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Elvis » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:48 am

Climate change is a known phenomenon in Earth’s long history


Eight billion humans living on an industrialized Earth is a new phenomenon.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:16 am

Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:05 am wrote:
DrEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:03 pm wrote:
It's getting warmer because of us.


Not necessarily. Probably unlikely as a sole factor.


Indeed. We're only responsible for an estimated 94% of the warming. A whopping 6% is natural cycles.

And what do you mean by "us"? Certainly not the poor or struggling classes. How is this narrative being used to manipulate sentiment towards ends that will benefit only the minority?


Us, as in humanity. Of course the rich will be better off. When have they ever not been? That's no argument against fighting climate change.

DrEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:03 pm wrote:The climate has been relatively stable throughout recorded history, and that's one of the reasons we have recorded history.


Relatively is the key term. And recorded history is barely a blip on the radar when considering life and conditions on this earth historically.


This has always been a stupid argument. 4.5 billion years ago the Earth was a molten hellscape. At one point it was an ice ball, another time a lush jungle. So what? It's completely irrelevant to what's happening now. We are changing the climate beyond the parameters it had when our civilization thrived.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:35 am

.

A good perspective offered below, in line with a few others expressed here (e.g., the "cyclical" nature of climate over time, albeit exacerbated -- but not entirely caused -- by 'industry'/human enterprises, etc).

It also provides added context/nuance to the often oversimplified descriptions (as exemplified by DrEvil's reply above) of prior eras.

The Future is a Landscape

...

The Limits to Growth showed that economic growth on a planetary scale is subject to the law of diminishing returns; pursue growth far enough, and the costs of growth rise faster than the benefits and eventually force growth itself to its knees. Of course it was denounced, derided, and dismissed. Its models of the future have nonetheless proven far more accurate than the conventional wisdom of its time and ours.

You might think that people who looked at the future predictions of The Limits to Growth would notice that the curves generated by the World3 computer model on which the study is based are relatively smooth. Population, industrial product, and other measures rise and fall in great arcs over a timespan of many decades. Yet the weird mental habit mentioned above inevitably swung into action the moment that somebody noticed that the model wasn’t predicting business as usual forever. The corporate media accordingly started screeching at the top of their electronic lungs that we’re all going to die by 2040, full stop, end of sentence.

I’ve noted before that these antics are an absolute necessity to believers in the conventional wisdom just now. More than anything else, those believers need predictions that fail even more obviously than the prophecies of limitless progress hardwired into the acceptable ideologies of our time. Screeching about the imminent end of the world fills the bill very nicely. Sure, Tomorrowland never shows up, and the claims that it’s about to arrive any day now are looking very shopworn. If the only alternative on offer is the end of the world, and that never happens either, it’s a little easier to keep on arguing that the Great Pumpkin-equivalent of the conventional wisdom’s technofetishistic wet dreams really will show up one of these days and hand out flying cars to everyone.

Image
Still the most accurate prediction of the future.

Meanwhile, of course, a very different future is taking shape around us. If we ignore for a moment the Tweedledoom and Tweedledee of the conventional wisdom, it’s possible to get a clear glimpse of the future crouching in the shadow of the present.

Image

The severe drought that has most of western North America in its grip right now is a good place to start. Those of my readers who have been keeping track know already that droughts have been getting increasingly common and increasingly drastic in that half of the continent over the last two decades or so. Of course there have been intervals of more normal conditions in between the heat waves and the droughts, and a great deal of statistical noise, and these have been used repeatedly in attempts to insist that everything’s just fine.

A little while ago, for example, I read an online essay by a meteorologist insisting that the record heat wave that baked the Pacific Northwest last month couldn’t have been caused by shifts in the global climate. The evidence he offered for this claim? Summer high temperatures in the region haven’t been rising in a linear fashion. It’s embarrassing to see this kind of basic ignorance of systems behavior in a credentialed specialist, but it’s not surprising. Once the heyday of systems theory in the middle of the last century waned, most of what was known about the behavior of complex systems seems to have been dropped into our society’s memory hole.

The way complex systems respond to increasing pressure from changing conditions is part of that forgotten knowledge. The change doesn’t unfold in a nice, smooth, simplemindedly linear way. Every complex system tends to settle into an equilibrium condition, held in place by a complex interplay of competing pressures and forces, and the behavior that comes out of this usually takes the form of random wobbles among a set of standard states. That’s why we can talk about the normal climate of a region—under ordinary conditions, the weather mostly cycles through a set of familiar patterns, and any variation from that pattern gets corrected in short order by robust forces pushing things back toward equilibrium.

A system can pop out of one equilibrium condition and into another, but that process takes time and unfolds in a predictable way. First, you get increasing variation without a definite direction of change. The boundaries of “normal” get stretched, and they usually stretch in many directions as the system wobbles back and forth with increasing violence. If the pressure continues, things get more and more chaotic, and then you begin to see the first signs of a new equilibrium: the system flops from its old normal to a new normal, settles there briefly, then flops back again. Rinse and repeat; as the pressure increases, the old normal becomes less and less common, and the new normal stops being the exception and becomes the rule. Periods of the old normal become less and less common and finally stop, and the chaotic behavior fades out as the new equilibrium establishes itself.

That’s what’s happening to the climate in western North American right now. The droughts are the new normal toward which the climate system is moving, and the familiar climates of the recent past are the old normal that’s going away. We even know the shape of the new normal. Paleoclimatologists—people who study the climate of past ages—know perfectly well what happens when global climate is warmer than it has been in the recent past: the West dries out. In the Hypsithermal, the period of higher-than-present global temperatures that followed the end of the last ice age, the West from the coastal mountains to the Mississippi was far drier than it is today—Nebraska was a desert with sand dunes, for example, and quite a bit ofthe land west of the Rockies was uninhabitable wasteland of the sort you find these days in the Sahara Desert.

...

The western forest fires that filled so many eastern states with smoky haze several times in recent weeks were a product of that shift. Millions of square miles now covered by conifer forests are turning into desert or semidesert as the climate becomes more arid, and so the forests are going away, with lightning-sparked fires among drought-stressed woodlands as one of Gaia’s preferred methods for making the change from one of her ecosystems to another. When the change is complete—a process that will take many decades and a lot of chaotic wobbles to play out—most of western North America will be desert again, as it was during the Hypsithermal.

It’s worth taking a moment to think about the consequences. In the recent past there was enough rainfall in the great basins west of the Rockies to feed a series of major river systems—the Colorado and Columbia watersheds chief among them—which made agriculture possible across much of the dryland West and also provided drinking water and hydroelectric power in great abundance. As conditions change, most of that water and power are going away. Millions of acres of farmland will have to be abandoned. So will cities that have no other source of drinking water—and there are quite a few of those. Once Lake Mead and Lake Powell become salt flats with a muddy trickle running down the middle, for example, Las Vegas will have rolled snake eyes once too often, and its sun-baked ruins will have to be left to the sand and the keening wind.

...

Some questions need to be asked and answered at this point. First of all, can anything be done to stop these changes? The answer here is quite simply no. On the one hand, the climate belts are already shifting as the old equilibrum breaks down, and further changes are baked into the cake at this point, given the amount of greenhouse gases that have already hit the atmosphere. On the other, the political will to take significant action to cut greenhouse gas production simply doesn’t exist. The reason it doesn’t exist, in turn, is that most people who claim to be concerned about the climate are eager to see other people deprived of carbon fuels, so long as they themselves don’t have to make any significant changes in their lifestyles.

It’s reached the point that some people on the leftward end of the climate activist movement are loudly insisting that they need to engage in violent terrorism because, as they say, nothing else has worked. They’re right that nothing has worked, because the one thing that would work—leading by example, starting with their own lifestyles—is the one thing they aren’t willing to do.

People on the center and right, meanwhile, have drawn their own conclusions from the antics of the climate change movement. Most of them have noticed that the people who claim to be upset about the climate aren’t upset enough to cut their own carbon footprints to any meaningful degree. Many have noticed that nearly all the proposals the left is offering would, as usual, benefit the middle and upper middle classes at the expense of the working classes and the poor. Thus they’re not having any of it, thank you very much. Nor is violent terrorism going to change their minds. It’s just going to convince them that climate activists are dangerous crazies best locked up or used for target practice.

But isn’t the climate crisis all the fault of big corporate polluters? (This is another common talking point on the left these days.) Sure, in a certain sense. Keep in mind, however, that nearly all of what those big corporate polluters are producing with all that carbon are goods and services that support the climate-wrecking lifestyles just mentioned. Since climate activists are still eagerly clamoring for those goods and services, furthermore, there’s no particular reason for the big corporate polluters to do anything else. Yes, boycotts might help, and we’ve already seen that it’s possible to do a worldwide shutdown of commercial air traffic—one of the most climate-damaging industries in existence—without causing undue harm. Will climate activists boycott their annual vacations in Mazatlan and Bali? Let’s just say I’m not holding my breath.

But won’t temperatures just keep on rising and bring on the apocalypse? The evidence from paleoclimatology offers a good way to check the rhetoric. 250 million years ago in the Triassic Period, the atmosphere had six times as much carbon dioxide in it as it has today—a level that will never again be reached, because so much carbon has been locked up in inert geological forms like chalk and limestone since then. The earth was much warmer, ice caps and glaciers were unknown, and the climate accordingly shifted into overdrive: paleoclimatologists have coined the moniker “megamonsoon” for the cataclysmic weather systems that swept over the planet in those days. Nonetheless the ancestors of today’s cedars and sequoias thrived, leaving the traces of vast forests for paleontologists to admire. So did your ancestors, dear reader—for the therapsids, the ancestors of mammals like you and me, the Triassic was a great time.

But what if some kind of long shot catastrophe takes place? Here again, it’s happened. A little later, in the Jurassic and Cretaceous Periods, gargantuan volcanic eruptions in the Toarcian and Cenomanian-Turonian epochs triggered what paleoclimatologists call super-greenhouse events, in which the temperature of the planet spiked to very high levels. The dinosaurs shrugged and went on munching ginkgo leaves. If the dinosaurs had built an industrial civilization, massed huge populations in unsustainable dinocities, and sunk trillions of dinodollars into infrastructure that would become worthless when the temperature rose, they would have had a very hard row to hoe, no question. They didn’t, and so they were still thriving when the earth got whacked by an asteroid millions of years later.

Arguably we aren’t as smart as the dinosaurs. Certainly we’ve got the industrial civilization, the unsustainable cities, and the climate-threatened infrastructure on its way to a final value of zero that they never had, and our species also doesn’t find ginkgo leaves very nourishing. Thus we’ve got a very hard row to hoe. It’s quite understandable that so many people would cling to the fantasy that the world will end sometime very soon so we don’t have to face the consequences of our actions, but you know, the world has no particular interest in catering to our sense of entitlement even when that takes an apocalyptic form.

Yet there’s another point to keep in mind here. The super-greenhouse events in the Toarcian and Cenomanian-Turonian epochs went away once the planet stopped belching gigatons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and the rather more modest greenhouse event of the Holocene-Neocene transition—yes, that’s where we are right now—will go away in due time, too, once our industrial civilization runs out of fossil fuels and drops the same bad habit. How long? Centuries or millennia, depending on complex feedback loops involving such things as plant growth, oceanic currents, and the modest but significant vagaries of the Sun. The desertification of the West is no more permanent than anything else on this planet of ongoing change.

...

Think about the current population bubble as yet another boom that is already showing signs of tipping over into bust—one recent study argues, on plausible grounds, that we may already have hit peak population worldwide. Just as in every great civilization of the past, centuries of steady population decline will help define the shape of the future before us. Think about fossil fuels not as things that about to run out suddenly, nor as things that are about to be replaced by some new and even more abundant energy source, but as things that are already trickling away gradually as rising prices and shrinking production feed each other, leaving us to get by on the much more modest energy resources of sun and wind and muscle.

What I’m suggesting is that we need to think of the future as a landscape: not a single place where only one thing happens and nothing ever changes again, but as a vast and unmapped territory with many different kinds of terrain, where many groups of people live in many different ways, some more successfully than others. Remember, too, that most of the people who live in that landscape will never have heard of us and won’t care about what we thought or said or did. I suspect that that’s the thing that galls our collective sense of entitlement most bitterly and generates the shrill self-pity so common these days—“but we’re special!”

No, not to the landscape of the future, we aren’t. The sooner we let go of our overinflated sense of importance and grasp that we’re just one civilization out of many, going through the familiar arc of rise and fall, the sooner we can get to work on the possibilities that are still within reach.


https://www.ecosophia.net/the-future-is-a-landscape/
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:43 pm

^^The climate 250 million years ago or the distant future is still irrelevant to what's happening today, but at least he/she acknowledges that the climate is changing for the worse because of the greenhouse gases we're releasing (you failed to bold that part for some strange reason).

No one is talking about stopping the changes outside of some hypothetical technologies that don't exist yet, but most people who pay attention realize it's probably a good idea to try to minimize the changes, starting with cutting down on the shit we release into the atmosphere.

And speaking of 'Limits to Growth':

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xw3x/ ... lapse-soon
MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We’re on Schedule.

A 1972 MIT study predicted that rapid economic growth would lead to societal collapse in the mid 21st century. A new paper shows we’re unfortunately right on schedule.

by Nafeez Ahmed July 14, 2021, 3:00pm

A remarkable new study by a director at one of the largest accounting firms in the world has found that a famous, decades-old warning from MIT about the risk of industrial civilization collapsing appears to be accurate based on new empirical data.

As the world looks forward to a rebound in economic growth following the devastation wrought by the pandemic, the research raises urgent questions about the risks of attempting to simply return to the pre-pandemic ‘normal.’

In 1972, a team of MIT scientists got together to study the risks of civilizational collapse. Their system dynamics model published by the Club of Rome identified impending ‘limits to growth’ (LtG) that meant industrial civilization was on track to collapse sometime within the 21st century, due to overexploitation of planetary resources.

The controversial MIT analysis generated heated debate, and was widely derided at the time by pundits who misrepresented its findings and methods. But the analysis has now received stunning vindication from a study written by a senior director at professional services giant KPMG, one of the 'Big Four' accounting firms as measured by global revenue.

Limits to growth

The study was published in the Yale Journal of Industrial Ecology in November 2020 and is available on the KPMG website. It concludes that the current business-as-usual trajectory of global civilization is heading toward the terminal decline of economic growth within the coming decade—and at worst, could trigger societal collapse by around 2040.

The study represents the first time a top analyst working within a mainstream global corporate entity has taken the ‘limits to growth’ model seriously. Its author, Gaya Herrington, is Sustainability and Dynamic System Analysis Lead at KPMG in the United States. However, she decided to undertake the research as a personal project to understand how well the MIT model stood the test of time.

The study itself is not affiliated or conducted on behalf of KPMG, and does not necessarily reflect the views of KPMG. Herrington performed the research as an extension of her Masters thesis at Harvard University in her capacity as an advisor to the Club of Rome. However, she is quoted explaining her project on the KPMG website as follows:

“Given the unappealing prospect of collapse, I was curious to see which scenarios were aligning most closely with empirical data today. After all, the book that featured this world model was a bestseller in the 70s, and by now we’d have several decades of empirical data which would make a comparison meaningful. But to my surprise I could not find recent attempts for this. So I decided to do it myself.”

Titled ‘Update to limits to growth: Comparing the World3 model with empirical data’, the study attempts to assess how MIT’s ‘World3’ model stacks up against new empirical data. Previous studies that attempted to do this found that the model’s worst-case scenarios accurately reflected real-world developments. However, the last study of this nature was completed in 2014.

The risk of collapse

Herrington’s new analysis examines data across 10 key variables, namely population, fertility rates, mortality rates, industrial output, food production, services, non-renewable resources, persistent pollution, human welfare, and ecological footprint. She found that the latest data most closely aligns with two particular scenarios, ‘BAU2’ (business-as-usual) and ‘CT’ (comprehensive technology).

“BAU2 and CT scenarios show a halt in growth within a decade or so from now,” the study concludes. “Both scenarios thus indicate that continuing business as usual, that is, pursuing continuous growth, is not possible. Even when paired with unprecedented technological development and adoption, business as usual as modelled by LtG would inevitably lead to declines in industrial capital, agricultural output, and welfare levels within this century.”

Study author Gaya Herrington told Motherboard that in the MIT World3 models, collapse “does not mean that humanity will cease to exist,” but rather that “economic and industrial growth will stop, and then decline, which will hurt food production and standards of living… In terms of timing, the BAU2 scenario shows a steep decline to set in around 2040.”

Image
The ‘Business-as-Usual’ scenario (Source: Herrington, 2021)

The end of growth?

In the comprehensive technology (CT) scenario, economic decline still sets in around this date with a range of possible negative consequences, but this does not lead to societal collapse.

Image
The ‘Comprehensive Technology’ scenario (Source: Herrington, 2021)

Unfortunately, the scenario which was the least closest fit to the latest empirical data happens to be the most optimistic pathway known as ‘SW’ (stabilized world), in which civilization follows a sustainable path and experiences the smallest declines in economic growth—based on a combination of technological innovation and widespread investment in public health and education.

Image
The ‘Stabilized World’ Scenario (Source: Herrington, 2021)

Although both the business-as-usual and comprehensive technology scenarios point to the coming end of economic growth in around 10 years, only the BAU2 scenario “shows a clear collapse pattern, whereas CT suggests the possibility of future declines being relatively soft landings, at least for humanity in general.”

Both scenarios currently “seem to align quite closely not just with observed data,” Herrington concludes in her study, indicating that the future is open.

A window of opportunity

While focusing on the pursuit of continued economic growth for its own sake will be futile, the study finds that technological progress and increased investments in public services could not just avoid the risk of collapse, but lead to a new stable and prosperous civilization operating safely within planetary boundaries. But we really have only the next decade to change course.

“At this point therefore, the data most aligns with the CT and BAU2 scenarios which indicate a slowdown and eventual halt in growth within the next decade or so, but World3 leaves open whether the subsequent decline will constitute a collapse,” the study concludes. Although the ‘stabilized world’ scenario “tracks least closely, a deliberate trajectory change brought about by society turning toward another goal than growth is still possible. The LtG work implies that this window of opportunity is closing fast.”

In a presentation at the World Economic Forum in 2020 delivered in her capacity as a KPMG director, Herrington argued for ‘agrowth’—an agnostic approach to growth which focuses on other economic goals and priorities.

“Changing our societal priorities hardly needs to be a capitulation to grim necessity,” she said. “Human activity can be regenerative and our productive capacities can be transformed. In fact, we are seeing examples of that happening right now. Expanding those efforts now creates a world full of opportunity that is also sustainable.”

She noted how the rapid development and deployment of vaccines at unprecedented rates in response to the COVID-19 pandemic demonstrates that we are capable of responding rapidly and constructively to global challenges if we choose to act. We need exactly such a determined approach to the environmental crisis.

“The necessary changes will not be easy and pose transition challenges but a sustainable and inclusive future is still possible,” said Herrington.

The best available data suggests that what we decide over the next 10 years will determine the long-term fate of human civilization. Although the odds are on a knife-edge, Herrington pointed to a “rapid rise” in environmental, social and good governance priorities as a basis for optimism, signalling the change in thinking taking place in both governments and businesses. She told me that perhaps the most important implication of her research is that it’s not too late to create a truly sustainable civilization that works for all.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:13 pm

So increased CO2 and global warming have their upside...

Gratitude for C02: It Continues to Feed the World

.By Vijay Jayaraj August 04, 2021

Many of us living in cities of advanced economies are ignorant of environmental factors critical to producing crops that maintain global food security. The mainstream media have not helped either. Instead of informing people about realities of the agricultural sector, the media function as climate catastrophists.

However, contrary to popular notions about environmental degradation, countries are producing record harvests because of favorable conditions and technological development.

Among those countries is India, a nation with 1.3 billion people — 650 million of whom depend on farming for a livelihood. These farmers have benefited from moderately warmer temperatures and higher levels of carbon dioxide in the recent two decades. One of the world’s biggest agricultural regions, India produces enough crops to feed its people and export high quality cereals, rice, wheat, millets, maize, ginger, turmeric, quinoa, fresh vegetables, fruits and other coarse grains.

In fact, the country’s export revenue from food crops is estimated to be $41.25 billion USD during the pandemic year 2020-21. Not surprisingly, the largest export market was the U.S.

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/08/04/gratitude_for_c02_it_continues_to_feed_the_world_788506.html

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:35 pm

Its ironic that people are mentioning a wildfire wiping out a town in Canada on the covid thread but not on this one.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:06 pm

I'm sure Vijay Jayaraj, associated with the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation (man made climate change isn't real because God, and anyway free markets will fix it) and the CO2 Coalition (CO2 is plant food ergo more CO2 is good), isn't the least bit biased. He references two "studies" in the article: one is an article written by himself and published on Anthony Watts' site (uh oh), and the other is from the CO2 coalition.

In other words, he's full of shit. He completely ignores the impact of longer and more extreme droughts and heavier rainfalls for instance. The CO2 concentration doesn't really matter much if it's too hot to grow the relevant crops or the topsoil has been washed away.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:49 pm

DrEvil » 08 Aug 2021 07:06 wrote:I'm sure Vijay Jayaraj, associated with the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation (man made climate change isn't real because God, and anyway free markets will fix it) and the CO2 Coalition (CO2 is plant food ergo more CO2 is good), isn't the least bit biased. He references two "studies" in the article: one is an article written by himself and published on Anthony Watts' site (uh oh), and the other is from the CO2 coalition.

In other words, he's full of shit. He completely ignores the impact of longer and more extreme droughts and heavier rainfalls for instance. The CO2 concentration doesn't really matter much if it's too hot to grow the relevant crops or the topsoil has been washed away.


I'm obviously not sceptical about global warming and I certainly don't agree with that garbage but as an aside.

Deforestation is a real contributor. Plants are no longer pulling carbon out of the atmosphere at the rate they did to maintain the forests that were huge carbon sinks. Obviously part of a cycle, but the cycle maintained the Carbon sink. Not only that, sunlight that once hit the surface and was photosynthesised into sugar now hits the surface and either bounces back into a particulate laden atmosphere (heating it) or heats things on the surface.

I knew people who used to grow hydroponic pot. (Not my thing, i prefer sun and soil.) They would add CO2 to the room as part of their grow set up. Theoretically that idea that more CO2 is good for the production of food is sound. Here's the thing, it had to be the right amount of CO2. There was a tipping point beyond which it stuffed the weed up and there was also a danger that it could kill the people using the room if they fucked up and added too much CO2 to the system.

There might be a lesson in that somewhere.

(Also worth remembering the world isn't a room with a bottle of beer gas attached. There isn't a dial you can turn to immediately stop the input if things are getting out of control.)
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Karmamatterz » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:28 pm

As the world looks forward to a rebound in economic growth following the devastation wrought by the pandemic, the research raises urgent questions about the risks of attempting to simply return to the pre-pandemic ‘normal.’


The virus did not cause the global economic meltdown and messed up situation. It was 100% caused by human beings who made the horrible bad decisions which caused the mayhem. This "study" is suspect from the get go as it uses bullshit narratives from the "pandemic" to justify the "new normal" If the media had not created the fear mongering and daily dose of shit "reporting" not a damn one of us would notice any difference in common illness, disease or deaths.

Are there any models that really are accurate about global warming? Are they any more accurate than the bullshit models used right now for the even more bullshit variants of Corona?

I would like to believe that the entire global warming "thing" is real and that its all 100% accurate and nobody is trying to exert agendas into it. But then I have wishful thinking along the same lines regarding the "pandemic." Anything based on computer models is suspect and worth skepticism. What I find interesting is the same people who are Covidians and refuse to consider anything but the new science on viruses and eagerly applaud censorship, seem to be the same ones who are eagerly shouting that there is no room for disagreement or skepticism in regards to global warming.

Aside, anybody else watch Fantastic Fungi yet? It's now available on Netflix and goes into topics like mycelium recycling toxic crude. It's really an excellent film.
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