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DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:40 am
by whipstitch
Threat Level Privacy, Crime and Security Online
Obama Supports DNA Sampling Upon Arrest

Josh Gerstein over at Politico sent Threat Level his piece underscoring once again President Barack Obama is not the civil-liberties knight in shining armor many were expecting.

Gerstein posts a televised interview of Obama and John Walsh of America’s Most Wanted. The nation’s chief executive extols the virtues of mandatory DNA testing of Americans upon arrest, even absent charges or a conviction. Obama said, “It’s the right thing to do” to “tighten the grip around folks” who commit crime.

When it comes to civil liberties, the Obama administration has come under fire for often mirroring his predecessor’s practices surrounding state secrets, the Patriot Act and domestic spying. There’s also Gitmo, Jay Bybee and John Yoo.

Now there’s DNA sampling. Obama told Walsh he supported the federal government, as well as the 18 states that have varying laws requiring compulsory DNA sampling of individuals upon an arrest for crimes ranging from misdemeanors to felonies. The data is lodged in state and federal databases, and has fostered as many as 200 arrests nationwide, Walsh said.

The American Civil Liberties Union claims DNA sampling is different from mandatory, upon-arrest fingerprinting that has been standard practice in the United States for decades.

A fingerprint, the group says, reveals nothing more than a person’s identity. But much can be learned from a DNA sample, which codes a person’s family ties, some health risks, and, according to some, can predict a propensity for violence.

The ACLU is suing California to block its voter-approved measure requiring saliva sampling of people picked up on felony charges. Authorities in the Golden State are allowed to conduct so-called “familial searching” — when a genetic sample does not directly match another, authorities start investigating people with closely matched DNA in hopes of finding leads to the perpetrator.

Do you wonder whether DNA sampling is legal?

The courts have already upheld DNA sampling of convicted felons, based on the theory that the convicted have fewer privacy rights. The U.S. Supreme Court has held that when conducting intrusions of the body during an investigation, the police need so-called “exigent circumstances” or a warrant. That alcohol evaporates in the blood stream is the exigent circumstance to draw blood from a suspected drunk driver without a warrant.

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:04 pm
by elfismiles
I'd just like to say, OVER AND OVER AND FUCKING OVER AGAIN:

F-U-C-K O-B-A-M-A
Image
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23965

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:39 pm
by Simulist
DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)


Sure it is — if you want to be a fascist.

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:11 pm
by tron
this is already implemented in the uk

deoxy taken on arrest

held on database even if found not guilty

dammned hard to have self removed from database

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/08 ... fairs_dna/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/04 ... _database/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/21/dna_pnc/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/28 ... se_update/

wake me when its over

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:40 pm
by Bruce Dazzling
Gosh, it's a good thing that I trust the "authorities" so much, or else I might be worried that they'd plant people's DNA in order to frame them for political reasons.

Oh, wait...

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:05 pm
by tron
or to tailor dna specific disease

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:13 pm
by elfismiles
Yeah, I think only China's city Shenzhen has the English beat (NO, not the band!) at being more surveilled.


China's All-Seeing Eye
With the help of U.S. defense contractors, China is building the prototype for a high-tech police state. It is ready for export.
By NAOMI KLEIN
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... seeing_eye
http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2008 ... seeing-eye
http://www.global-sisterhood-network.or ... w/2120/76/



Meanwhile:


Parents Angry Over CCTV In School Toilets
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100309/tuk ... dbed5.html

...

"We're raising a generation of children accustomed to being constantly watched and monitored, whether cameras are switched on or not."

Grace Academy already has 26 CCTV cameras watching other parts of the school.

The incident is the latest row to erupt between schools and parents who are concerned about safeguarding their children's privacy.

Last year police were called to a school in Salford after parents were horrified to discover children had been filmed changing into their PE kit.

Although the footage was not misused, police seized the film after negotiating with the school.

In 2007 it was revealed schools had fingerprinted thousands of primary school children without their parent's consent.

The Department for Children, Schools and Families later ruled that if schools want to obtain and store biometric data from children, consent is not required from parents.






tron wrote:this is already implemented in the uk

deoxy taken on arrest

held on database even if found not guilty

dammned hard to have self removed from database

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/08 ... fairs_dna/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/04 ... _database/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/21/dna_pnc/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/28 ... se_update/

wake me when its over

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:23 pm
by justdrew
Of course, this wouldn't do anything to stop crime which doesn't leave DNA behind.

Here's another timely piece in the push for this:
To Stop Crime, Share Your Genes
PERHAPS the only thing more surprising than President Obama’s decision to give an interview for “America’s Most Wanted” last weekend was his apparent agreement with the program’s host, John Walsh, that there should be a national DNA database with profiles of every person arrested, whether convicted or not. Many Americans feel that this proposal flies in the face of our “innocent until proven guilty” ethos, and given that African-Americans are far more likely to be arrested than whites, critics refer to such genetic collection as creating “Jim Crow’s database.”

In truth, however, this is an issue where both sides are partly right. The president was correct in saying that we need a more robust DNA database, available to law enforcement in every state, to “continue to tighten the grip around folks who have perpetrated these crimes.” But critics have a point that genetic police work, like the sampling of arrestees, is fraught with bias. A better solution: to keep every American’s DNA profile on file.

Your sensitive genetic information would be safe. A DNA profile distills a person’s complex genomic information down to a set of 26 numerical values, each characterizing the length of a certain repeated sequence of “junk” DNA that differs from person to person. Although these genetic differences are biologically meaningless — they don’t correlate with any observable characteristics — tabulating the number of repeats creates a unique identifier, a DNA “fingerprint.”

The genetic privacy risk from such profiling is virtually nil, because these records include none of the health and biological data present in one’s genome as a whole. Aside from the ability in some cases to determine whether two individuals are closely related, DNA profiles have nothing sensitive to disclose.

But for law enforcement, the profiles are hugely important: DNA samples collected from crime scenes are compared against a standing database of profiles, and matches are investigated. Obviously, the more individuals profiled in the database, the more likely a crime-scene sample can be identified, hence the president’s enthusiasm to expand the nationwide repository.

The current federal law-enforcement database, the Combined DNA Index System, or Codis, was designed for profiles of convicted criminals. When it became operational in 1998, only certain classes of convicted criminals (for instance, sex offenders) were profiled. Over the past decade, the list of qualifying crimes has quietly grown (states make their own laws on collection). And last year, the F.B.I. joined more than a dozen states and moved to include DNA profiles from arrestees not yet convicted.

There are several key problems with this approach to expanding the database. First, the national DNA database is racially skewed, as blacks and Hispanics are far more likely than whites to be convicted of crimes. Creating profiles of arrestees only adds to that imbalance.

Second, several states, including California and Colorado, have embraced a controversial new technique called familial DNA search, which exploits the fact that close relatives share substantial fractions of their DNA. If efforts to find a DNA match come up empty — that is, if the perpetrator is not yet profiled in the database — the police in these states can search for partial matches between crime-scene samples and offenders in their record base. If they find a partial match, they can zero in on relatives of the profiled person as possible suspects.

This sounds elegant, and it occasionally works: in Britain, a handful of high-profile cases have been solved using familial search. But this approach is crippled by a very high false positive rate — many partial matches turn up people unrelated to the actual perpetrator. And it raises serious legal questions: how can we justify the de facto inclusion in DNA databases of criminals’ family members who have been neither arrested nor convicted?

Moreover, familial search threatens to skew racial bias further still: by effectively including all close relatives of profiled individuals, the database could approach universal population coverage for certain races or groups and not others. Even if this bias is found to be legally permissible, it may still prove politically unpalatable.

A much fairer system would be to store DNA profiles for each and every one of us. This would eliminate any racial bias, negate the need for the questionable technique of familial search, and of course be a far stronger tool for law enforcement than even an arrestee database.

This universal database is tenable from a privacy perspective because of the very limited information content of DNA profiles: whereas the genome itself poses a serious privacy risk, Codis-style profiles do not.

A universal record would be a strong deterrent to first-time offenders — after all, any DNA sample left behind would be a smoking gun for the police — and would enable the police to more quickly apprehend repeat criminals. It would also help prevent wrongful convictions.

As a practical matter, universal DNA collection is fairly easy: it could be done alongside blood tests on newborns, or through painless cheek swabs as a prerequisite to obtaining a driver’s license or Social Security card. Once a biological sample was obtained, its use must be limited to generating a DNA profile only, and afterward the sample would be destroyed. Access to the DNA database would remain limited to law enforcement officers investigating serious crimes.

Since every American would have a stake in keeping the data private and ensuring that only the limited content vital to law enforcement was recorded, there would be far less likelihood of government misuse than in the case of a more selective database.

Provided our privacy remains secure, there is no excuse not to use every bit of science we can in the fight against crime. The key is making sure that all Americans contribute their share.

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:25 pm
by DeltaDawn
Was going to wait for son to upload a pic that I could agree with Elfie with, but just got too mad to wait...........It's all agreed that our country is in an economic crisis right? and our leader's answer to this, is get a DNA sampling from anyone who has an arrest for anything? Doesn't matter whether they are convicted or not, doesn't matter that they may have been arrested for stealing food to feed their babies? doesn't matter if they are acquited??? this is his answer???

From recent dealings I know that DNA tests are VERY expensive, cops have told me that unless it's the only way they can solve the crime, they don't bother. Not only that but it takes 6 weeks just to have testing done in state, let alone done against a national database. If the police departments themselves use it as a last resort, for cost sakes, who thinks it's a good idea to take samples from everyone???

The county I live in just had discussions with our local Help Center etc because they are getting so many arrests, like mentioned above, of people who are literally stealing baby formula and food. So instead of creating jobs or helping small businesses hire people, we'll just DNA sample that man who fed his children the only way he could at the present time in this economy?

One other thing verified to me by officials here, at this time, we are building a jail here and their funding comes from the state, which means the more people there when asking for grants, the more money they will get. Trusted police officers are telling me that they have arrested folks they Never thought would end up in jail for any period of time but yet they are for money's sake. They are given warrants that they cannot even believe, such as warrants for bad checks, that they tell me, most of the time are handled by the courts with no arrests made. So here they are making arrests they say waste their time and efforts for the jails to have body counts and now we're going to spend more money in DNA sampling these VERY petty criminals????

As has been already said.....FUCK obama.....get a clue, put America back to work, quit taking over every damn thing you can get your hands on, get off the ego trip......THAT's the right thing to do!!!! Sorry for the rant.....just makes me MAD :evil:

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:33 pm
by Simulist
Health care for all is supposedly "too expensive," but there's always plenty of money laying around for fascist shit like this.

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:43 pm
by operator kos
Lol... A few days ago, on the 11th of the month we were doing some 9/11 outreach. We got tired of the blank stares our bullhorning drew, so we started doing some reverse propaganda, suggesting that people be sure to submit their children's DNA to the Department of Homeland security in case they were ever kidnapped by terrorists, amongst other Orwellian acts of submission. Oh, reality... you never let me down.

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:22 pm
by justdrew
well, we can forget about it being too expensive much longer, new machines already being rolled out speed-up results and lower costs dramatically, IIRC. These tests don't sequence a persons genome, as described in the article I put up a few posts ago, it's just "sort-of" taking a fingerprint of the dna.

The main problem I see is this does nothing to stop white-color crime, which is the most damaging kind for society at large.

How has Brittan's DNA database helped stop rapists? has it? Has it caught any?

I'd think I'd have heard them crowing about it if it had, but maybe not...

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:52 pm
by 82_28
I'm so sick of hearing him say "folks". It literally echoes in my head. Is there not one speech, interview or press conference that he does not use the word "folks"?

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:01 pm
by Simulist
82_28 wrote:I'm so sick of hearing him say "folks". It literally echoes in my head. Is there not one speech, interview or press conference that he does not use the word "folks"?


Good observation. One tactic of human predators is to pretend to be "one of us" when they want something. Then, once they get what they want (think "after the election" in this case), the folksiness fades almost at once, as the true intent of the predator is revealed.

Re: DNA Testing on Arrest (It’s the right thing to do)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:15 am
by Penguin
tron wrote:this is already implemented in the uk

deoxy taken on arrest

held on database even if found not guilty

dammned hard to have self removed from database



Same thing in Finland. DNA and fingerprints taken upon arrest, no matter what the offense. Public drunkenness will probably do it, slight misdemeanors or what not. No way to get it removed, ever.
I was rather surprised to find this out too, I was under the false impression that it was only done in serious crimes - violent or serious drug offenses, but no. Its become a blanket routine procedure.