DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby happenstance » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:12 pm

Seems appropriate enough to put this in this thread -- Terrence McKenna died 10 years ago today. Here's a good spiel:



I think ideology is toxic. All ideology. It's not that there are good ones and bad ones. All ideology. Because ideology is a kind of insult to the human gift of free thinking. If you adopt some ideology, Leninism, Mormonism, it doesn't matter, then you have all the answers. You just go and look in the Catechism. Well, I don't know why they issued you a brain they could've just given you the Catechism. Technology as the counterpoint to ideology is a very different animal. Now, right now we're going through a technophobic phase because people think technology means exploding nuclear power plants and irradiated food and TV. But all technology really means, in the McLuhan sense is "the extensions of man." And so language is a technology, shamanism is a technology, psilocybin is a technology, and certainly the internet is a technology.

It's slowly dawning on a number of people that if we're talking about hallucinogens as a consciousness expanding drug then the only difference between a drug and a computer is that one is slightly too large to swallow. And our best people are working on that problem even as we speak! The drugs of the future will be much more like computers. The computers of the future will be much more like drugs. And I think what we have to recognize is that we are in a very brief and low energy technical phase. Where we are headed is a solid state fiber optic global community of the internet. I think what we need to do is dematerialize culture in every way possible. And that means: make it all a tool for the production of our poetic flights. A technology for the putting in place of our dreams as exhibits that we can show each other. This is how technology can be in the service of boundary dissolution.

In the service of boundary maintenance you get hydrogen bombs and Sarin. In the service of boundary dissolution you get psychoactive substances, and the internet, and sexual experimentalism, social justice, tolerance, and community. And the choice is to be made on an individual level by each and every one of us. I don't advocate a mass outbreak of psychedelic use. I think these things are a private matter. The only thing comparable to them in our human experience is our sexuality. And that's a private matter - how we define it, how we express it, how we act it out, who we do it with, what we think about it, and what we choose to say in public about it. I do not think the government, under the guise of some phony-alarmist, pseudo-scientific rhetoric, should attempt to control the evolution of consciousness. Afterall, if these things truly are consciousness expanding it doesn't take too much intelligence to realize that it is the absence of consciousness is causing our flirtation with extinction and planetary disaster. If there is any way to raise consciousness: diet, drug, machine, sexual practice mantra, yantra, whatever it is we should be furiously exploring it and applying it. Because if we should fumble the ball, if we should fail where our ancestors did not fail, the magnitude of the tragedy will be immense. Because failure is not inevitable. It is not inevitable that we should fail. There are ideas, personalities, and technologies available right now which if honestly explored and implemented could rescue the human enterprise from the disgrace that hovers over us.
happenstance
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:23 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby Nordic » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:08 am

Simulist wrote:
happenstance wrote:
I understand. The route I took in coming to this board was a circuitous one, but the underlying reason I'm interested in Jeff's work and in other posters' experiences has its origin in my own exceedingly strange experiences as a child.

This prolonged and highly detailed series of experiences could not, in my judgment, be the result of simple childhood fantasy or confabulation with events in my own life or even with popular media culture — the components were too elaborate and the messages simply too peculiar (and sometimes even deep and abstruse) for that.


Are you interested in sharing said experiences? I'm sure we'd all love to hear them! I know I would.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14206
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:05 am

happenstance wrote:Seems appropriate enough to put this in this thread -- Terrence McKenna died 10 years ago today.


The day you typed that I went up the mountain (Mt Warning) for the first time in 11 years (I think)... Its been nearly as long since I used any sort of psychedelic/entheogen.

I'm glad I was up there on the 10th anniversary of his death. Its kind of appropriate.

Image

Image
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 9718
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby SonicG » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:33 pm

Although I have been heavily influenced by McKenna, I think it is important to thoroughly and critically examine everything. I haven't read the whole linked pdf but certainly the fact of doing DMT in a hospital setting hooked into machines is going to have a huge influence. The only time I tried it was in a house, made very hospitable but still it was the first time I had ever been there so that certainly held me back a bit. Anyhow, here's another critical discussion from a while ago.

http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?id=dmt_pickover

Obviously, Terence himself would have no trouble dialoguing about these issues and looking for novel ways forward.
"a poiminint tidal wave in a notion of dynamite"
User avatar
SonicG
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:29 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby wordspeak2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:36 am

Thanks for starting this thread. I've smoked DMT probably a hundred times. Last winter I became rightfully obsessed with it, tucked away in my room, smoking it daily and spending most of the rest of my time thinking about it. I think it was the most profound and revolutionary thing I've ever done. I'm working towards being able to put some of it into words, but I'm not sure how ready I am yet. I can talk about it on a level that I consider fairly superficial and cliche level, but the message of the DMT is infinitely deeper than that- it's saying, "Use me, work eith me." To those who have never tried it, I'll quote Terence McKenna, "It's not only stranger than you suppose, it's stranger than you *can* suppose.*
Far, far, far stranger, and far, far, far more intense. Mind-blowingly intense, so much more so than any other psychedelic experience (though psilocybin mushrooms, if used properly, can bring one to a somewhat similar arena). There is literally another dimension, apparently, or some such thing, and one is thrown into it for seven to ten minutes on DMT. Its existence is undeniable. The themes I came to in meditating on DMT were immortality, infinitre empowerment... and this as the ultimate weapon/tool of global cosmic impact. In other words, we can do *anything.* We can see back in time, we can become clairvoyant, we can dramatically impact human history with the slightest push in just the right direction.
It's undeniably an "alien" encounter. Whether it is actually originally extreterrestrial, per se, I have no idea. Perhaps in a future experience I could learn this. It is certainly extra-dimensional. It certainly necessitates a change in one's basic perception of reality.
What's most fascinating about DMT, imo, is that it seems alive, communicative, working with you. It responds to you, to your attitude, the energy you put into it. It's as if it's a living entity that's seeking some of communicative relationship with you. I think that's clearlt whay it is.
If you "break through" you experience entities. Terence McKenna described them as "self-transforming machine elves." That's quite a creative description, but I wouldn't get caught on it. I don't know exactly what the hell they are. They're manifestations of the DMT thing. The fact that everyone who goes there has fairly similar experiences seeing these entities certainly tells you something. But they're not always exactly the same. They're alive, they change, they're real, they're part of the interconnected consciousness. Somehow this thing has global or perhaps galactic knowledge. And it is entirely, 100%, without a doubt, our ally. It tells the truth. The experience I felt meditating on DMT very viscerally allowed me to see through money, to see money as the pure evil that it is. Not that I didn't know this, but it was a profound visceral experience. I also saw my cell phone as evil. I turned off technology as much as possible in order to listen to what is actually the ultimate technology.
I'm anxious to go back to DMT world when I'm ready to take it to the next level. We need more people willing to go there and become believers. If nothing else, one lesson I got from DMT was WE CAN WIN. Their tools are fake; our tools. We can dissolve the materialist string which props up capitalism.
I recently found the DMT forum that Penguin linked to- https://dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.aspx?g=topics&f=1. It's really quite fantastic. I'm finding some other people who have had the type of experiences I've had. The more that you clear out your "third eye" the more profound/deeper experiences you'll have. I got to a place where, even if I didn't smoke DMT, if I relaxed and smoked some pot and meditated at night, I could see the DMT world. Animals and entities- a very specific visual lens into another dimension.
I have to admit that at one point I smoked too much of it in a short period of time, combined with doing too many other things that over-stimulated my system, and I had a bona fide near-death experience. I was completely convinced that I was dead for a couple minutes. Too say it was fucking scary as hell would be an understatement, but I laughed it off, learned my lesson, and went back to smoking DMT. Remember that this stuff is endogenous; it's found in our brains. And it's the simplest psychedelic of all, chemically-speaking.
I think the Strassman book is a wonderful introduction, but what we really need is DMT explorers who are willing to go there, take the experiences at face value, learn what we can do, and DO IT. In real time, here and now. All consciousness truly is completely inter-connected, but that doesn't mean anything unless we *know it,* not just believe it.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby wordspeak2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:13 am

Btw, read the Tripzine piece trying to disspell the notion that the DMT world represents an "other dimension," and all I can say is that the author has certainly not had an actual DMT breakthrough experience. Not even close. Try again, dude, maybe with a more open, curious, mind. Try taking *really big hits* out of a vaporizer pipe in a quiet, dark setting. This is a common mistake that people make with DMT, simple methodology. You *have to* freebase it, in order to break through. And it's best to take really humongous hits and hold them for as long as possible. Using this method you're lucky to pull off two hits, never mind three. Also, needless to say, it's quite necessary for your mind to be free of such obstructions as alcohol, sugar, caffeine, and processed foods, if you wish to have a clear experience. However, if you wish to tendentiously write it all off in pseudo-scientific condescension, then be all fucked up on whatever you want.
*Of course* people are going to have different experiences based on the energy that they put in. If you're in a greusome mind state you're likely to see greusome imagery. There was the subject in the Strassman book who was raped by- what was it?- a huge lizard or something. Jesus Christ. But of course... DMT is not a one-way street. That's the point. But don't just believe me....
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby wordspeak2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:29 pm

Btw, Penguin, that was a really, really excellent article that you linked to, by Ayers. In summary: Strassman really misses the point in attempting to apply DMT in a controlled clinical settings with doctors all around (for me personally I could barely imagine a worse settings.) Let's create supportive, positive environments and have some real DMT studies.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby §ê¢rꆧ » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:49 pm

Thanks for sharing your experiences, wordspeak2. I think the alien abduction experience paralleling DMT experiences is interesting, also the archetype of elves, clowns, jokers, trickster being met on the trip - makes me think of 'little people,' faeries and the like.

I've tried 5-meo-dmt and had quite an experience, but no entities as such. I don't think I 'broke through' for whatever reason (setting or dosage), although maybe the 5-meo-dmt experience is markedly different?

I agree that Dr. Strassman's approach was probably the worst setting, but I can see the value in what he was doing. I'm almost through the book and have found it really interesting. Here are two passages that I thought might interest those here (made me think of the Who Eats the Suffering thread here for some reason):

Image
Image

I think I'm about ready to see if the elves have any answers, myself. I'm sort of torn between trying an ayahuasca mixture or a dmt one, as I don't know if I have the energy for both. The Strassman book is inclines me towards the latter...
User avatar
§ê¢rꆧ
 
Posts: 1179
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:12 pm
Location: Region X
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:42 pm

All drugs should be banned. Hippies make me ROTFLMFAO.

Down with grouthink.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

26 March 2020: US Space Force NatSec Rocket Launch

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffGuardian0

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedKahina
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 9876
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby NaturalMystik » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:52 pm

The clinical setting of Strassman's work is certainly unfortunate. However having access to a pure regulated dosage of DMT is a very nice thing. I've read some faq's about how to make the stuff and it seems like you pretty much need a chemistry degree to extract the dmt from various legal vegetations... So while the setting kind of sucked at least you could have some amount faith in the dose your getting. One day I hope to try.
Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission.
User avatar
NaturalMystik
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:37 am
Location: The Golden Horseshoe
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby wordspeak2 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:59 pm

I hope so, too, NaturalMystik. A lot of people out there are making it now, so hopefully you'll come across some. It's been available at festivals and such in the past year or two much more than ever before. It's out there.

Btw, Secrets, I understand that, yes, 5-meo-dmt is very different from the better stuff, the 5,n,n. I hope you come across some of the latter. You definitely, definitely know when you have a breakthrough, or even close to one.

I agree that Strassman's project had some value. If nothing else it got the meme "DMT" further out there in mass consciousness, and helped give it a certain legitimacy.
wordspeak2
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Blog: View Blog (0)

DMT is in your head

Postby elpuma » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:17 pm

DMT is in your head, but it may be too weird for the psychedelic renaissance

By John Horgan


Image

You know that psychedelics are making a comeback when the New York Times says so on page 1. In “Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In,” John Tierney reports on how doctors at schools like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, UCLA and NYU are testing the potential of psilocybin and other hallucinogens for treating depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, alcoholism—and for inducing spiritual experiences.

Tierney’s brisk overview neglects to mention the most mind-bending of all psychedelics: dimethyltryptamine, or DMT. It was first synthesized by a British chemist in the 1930s, and its psychotropic properties were discovered some 20 years later by the Hungarian-born chemist Stephen Szara, who later became a researcher for the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

Why is DMT so fascinating? For starters, DMT is the only psychedelic known to occur naturally in the human body. In 1972, the Nobel laureate Julius Axelrod of the National Institutes of Health discovered DMT in human brain tissue, leading to speculation that the compound plays a role in psychosis. Research into that possibility—and into psychedelics in general--was abandoned because of the growing backlash against these compounds.

In 1990, however, Rick Strassman, a psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico, obtained permission from federal authorities to inject DMT into human volunteers. Strassman, a Buddhist, suspected that endogenous DMT might contribute to mystical experiences. From 1990 to 1995, he supervised more than 400 DMT sessions involving 60 subjects at the University of New Mexico. Many subjects reported that they dissolved blissfully into a radiant light or sensed the presence of a powerful, god-like being.

On the other hand, 25 subjects underwent what Strassman called “adverse effects,” including terrifying hallucinations of “aliens” that took the shape of robots, insects or reptiles. Some subjects remained convinced that these aliens were real in spite of Strassman’s efforts to convince them otherwise. In part out of concern about these adverse effects, Strassman discontinued his research, which he describes in his 2000 book DMT: The Spirit Molecule.

DMT is also the primary active ingredient of ayahuasca, a tea that Amazonian tribes brew from two plants and drink as a sacred medicine. After hearing about ayahuasca from the legendary Harvard botanist Richard Shultes, the beat writer William Burroughs traveled to South America and swilled the stuff in 1953. In a letter to the poet Allen Ginsberg, Burroughs said that during his first ayahuasca trip he thought he had been poisoned, and he felt himself turning into half-man-half-woman. Burroughs nonetheless drank the tea again and praised its ability to facilitate “space time travel.”

By the mid-20th century, ayahuasca had also been adopted as a sacrament by several urban sects in Brazil. The largest of these is the Uniao Do Vegetal, which combines elements of Christianity with indigenous Indian beliefs. Researchers led by the UCLA psychiatrist Charles Grob (who is mentioned in Tierney’s story) have reported that Brazilian UDV members are on average healthier physiologically and psychologically than a control group. UDV members also claimed that ayahuasca had helped them overcome alcoholism, drug addiction and other self-destructive behaviors. A decade ago, a branch of the UDV based in New Mexico sued for the right to consume ayahuasca legally in the U.S. In 2006 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the group.

In Antipodes of the Mind, the Israeli psychologist Benny Shanon, who has consumed ayahuasca more than 100 times, provides a gripping account of his own and others’ visions. Shanon says the tea transformed him from a “devout atheist” into a spiritual believer awestruck by the mysteries of nature and the human mind. Yet Shanon, like Strassman, acknowledges that these hallucinogenic experiences pose risks. Quoting one ayahuasca shaman, Shanon warns that ayahuasca can also be “the worst of liars,” leaving some users gripped by delusions.

I drank ayahuasca a decade ago while researching my book Rational Mysticism . It tastes like stale beer dregs flavored with cigarette butts. After I threw up, I had a cosmic panic attack, in which I was menaced by malevolent, dayglo-hued polyhedra. I have no desire to repeat this experience.

I applaud the psychedelic renaissance, with this caveat: Spiritual texts often emphasize the dangers of mystical experiences, whether generated by drugs, fasting, meditation or other means. That is the theme of an old Talmudic tale in which four rabbis are brought into the presence of God. One becomes a heretic, one goes crazy, one drops dead and one returns home with his faith affirmed.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=dmt-is-in-your-head-but-it-may-too-2010-04-16
User avatar
elpuma
 
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby Simulist » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:37 pm

Overall, that's a pretty good article.

John Horgan of Scientific American wrote:I applaud the psychedelic renaissance, with this caveat: Spiritual texts often emphasize the dangers of mystical experiences, whether generated by drugs, fasting, meditation or other means. That is the theme of an old Talmudic tale in which four rabbis are brought into the presence of God. One becomes a heretic, one goes crazy, one drops dead and one returns home with his faith affirmed.

Well, yes, mystical experiences can become distracting to many seekers, but they don't have to be.

On the other hand, "spiritual texts" may also "often emphasize the dangers of mystical experiences" because the most prominent danger is to the establishment religion itself, whose texts warn of this!

As one might expect, personal mystical experiences can rock the community boat — something no establishment likes, especially established religions.

'Cause, you know, what would people do without religions to tell them? Just imagine.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby Metric Pringle » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:12 pm

About to get this book! Ayahuasca, of which DMT is the active checmical, is a great interest of mine, am wanting to go on a retreat in Peru, but worried about the whole idea of ayahuasca tourism. Does the transactional and touristic process by which you arrive at it, negate a genuine experience? The money goes toward them buying more land, securing the future of the tribe, but does this money taint the experience i wonder?

This new publication highly recommended by a friend of mine...

'Psychedelic Information Theory: Shamanism in the Age of Reason' is an examination of the nonlinear dynamics of hallucination and altered states of consciousness. By deconstructing the systems of human perception and memory, 'Psychedelic Information Theory' quantifies the limits of psychedelic perception and describes the methods by which psychedelics alter consciousness, create new information, and affect human culture. By presenting these methods in physical terms 'Psychedelic Information Theory' offers a rational and objective model for shamanic transformation and psychedelic therapy in modern clinical practice."

http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/
““The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.”k.” - Charles Bukowski

Image
User avatar
Metric Pringle
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:13 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Postby happenstance » Fri May 28, 2010 5:56 pm

Seems like a decent place to put this article:

Mushroom Tea Murder: Man Removes Friend's Still-Beating Heart

http://deadspin.com/5549389/mushroom-te ... ting-heart
happenstance
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:23 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MIblues and 24 guests